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  #101  
Old 05-22-2015, 05:12 PM
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Although I agree the show should be cancelled, it's just going to make the children even more isolated.

At least Michelle isn't popping out any more babies, so the days of the girls charting their mother's menstrual cycle are over for good. Also, there won't be any more blanket training.
  #102  
Old 05-22-2015, 05:38 PM
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Josh was a young teen when this occurred. The father reported it to the police. Since then Josh has had no further known issues.

Its pretty silly to label a young teen a pedo for being curious about girls. What he did was wrong and illegal. But it in no way reflects on his behavior as an adult. He was a curious and horny teen with hormones running wild. Just like any other horny young boy who gets his first erection. Their dick gets hard when the wind blows.

He lived in a huge family. He would have been caught if he had gone into their bedrooms and continued touching the girls. AFAIK theres been no further incidents since it was reported to the police.

TLC must have known.

Last edited by aceplace57; 05-22-2015 at 05:43 PM.
  #103  
Old 05-22-2015, 05:44 PM
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Josh was a young teen when this occurred. The father reported it to the police. Since then Josh has had no further known issues.

Its pretty silly to label a young teen a pedo for being curious about girls. What he did was wrong and illegal. But it in no way reflects on his behavior as an adult. He was a curious and horny teen with hormones running wild. Just like any other horny young boy who gets his first erection.

He lived in a huge family. He would have been caught if he had gone into their bedrooms and continued touching them. AFAIK theres been no further incidents since it was reported to the police.
Seriously? It's okay that he molested unaware young girls (some of whom were his SISTERS?) because he was a "horny young boy"?

And he gets to get away with it because he apologized?

Yeah, no. He's a sexual abuser. Maybe if they'd caught him playing doctor with willing girls, that argument might fly. But fondling/groping them while they were asleep is a hell of a lot more than " a horny young boy." That's a sexual predator.

I hope he gets what's coming to him. Just being "sorry" isn't enough when you sit on the whole thing for years before finally owning up to it. That's not "sorry," it's "sorry I got caught."
  #104  
Old 05-22-2015, 05:44 PM
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His father did not report it to "the police," he brought Josh to a family friend who was in the force and is now doing a 56 year sentence for child pornography.

So yeah. Reporting it to the police meant, brought him to a trusted pedophile.

I was a curious and horny teen and molested zero children. You?
  #105  
Old 05-22-2015, 05:51 PM
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Josh was a young teen when this occurred. The father reported it to the police. Since then Josh has had no further known issues.

Its pretty silly to label a young teen a pedo for being curious about girls. What he did was wrong and illegal. But it in no way reflects on his behavior as an adult. He was a curious and horny teen with hormones running wild. Just like any other horny young boy who gets his first erection.
It is not normal behavior sneak into your sister's bedroom and fondle their genitals when they are asleep. Or to attempt to touch a sibling's genitals when near them. This went on for months. Jim Bob did NOT report the behavior to the police until apparently at least a year after it happened. For all we know it did happen again. We know that Duggars did pretty much nothing to help protect their daughters from their brother's abuse.

They're shitty parents. He's a man with serious issues that would make most people avoid allowing their kids near him unsupervised. We are under no obligation to give into Duggar delusions about their own greatness or fail to point out where they have failed miserably.
  #106  
Old 05-22-2015, 05:53 PM
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I'll show you mine if you show me yours was a common childhood game. Kids are inquisitive. Puberty stirs up a lot of mixed up feelings.

It's true most young boys don't fondle their sisters. But it does happen. Thankfully in most cases that's all there is too it. Parents have to use their best judgement in correcting the problem.

I can't believe people can't see the difference in a young boy going through puberty and a sexually deviant adult. The whole point of parenting is to instruct and correct behavior. So that their kids grow up to be responsible adults.

Are people suggesting a young boy is already beyond help? Lets label a kid a pedo?

Last edited by aceplace57; 05-22-2015 at 05:57 PM.
  #107  
Old 05-22-2015, 05:56 PM
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Since when is it common for young teenage boys to pounce on their own sisters -- especially their very, very young sisters -- out of sexual frustration and confusion?? Take a look at the police report...this went way beyond just peeking at each others' private parts.
  #108  
Old 05-22-2015, 05:56 PM
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He was fourteen and the girl was five.

Your argument is invalid.
  #109  
Old 05-22-2015, 06:07 PM
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I'll show you mine if you show me yours was a common childhood game. Kids are inquisitive. Puberty stirs up a lot of mixed up feelings.
There's a big difference between "I'll show you mine and you show me yours" (which is still pretty sick when we're talking about a fourteen-year-old boy and his five-year-old sister) and "I'll fondle yours while you're asleep and you don't get to protest."

Quote:
Are people suggesting a young boy is already beyond help? Lets label a kid a pedo?
Pedo: Normal 14-year-old boys don't get sexually aroused by little kids. So yeah, pedo. Sexual predator, absolutely. It's the definition of sexual predator: he took advantage of another person without consent for his own sexual satisfaction.
  #110  
Old 05-22-2015, 06:12 PM
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If this behavior had continued then I'd agree Josh is a sexual deviant. But there's no indication that any further incidents occurred after he talked with the state police. A family that big has no secrets. There's no way he could have continued without his brothers and sisters telling their dad.

The kid made a mistake. He was counseled and punished. Just like a parent does with any problem. They try to get help and correct the behavior so the kid matures into a responsible adult. Sometimes it works. Sometimes not. But there's no indication this abhorrent behavior continued into his adult life.

Last edited by aceplace57; 05-22-2015 at 06:15 PM.
  #111  
Old 05-22-2015, 06:21 PM
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If this behavior had continued then I'd agree Josh is a sexual deviant. But there's no indication that any further incidents occurred after he talked with the state police. A family that big has no secrets. There's no way he could have continued without his brothers and sisters telling their dad.

The kid made a mistake. He was counseled and punished. Just like a parent does with any problem. They try to get help and correct the behavior so the kid matures into a responsible adult. Sometimes it works. Sometimes not. But there's no indication this abhorrent behavior continued into his adult life.
He wasn't counseled and he wasn't punished. The "counseling" he received was to be sent to a Gothard approved program where he prayed, and did construction work. Gothard himself is a sexual predator. His "punishment" was to be taken to a friend of the family who is a police officer, for stern talking to. That same officer is now serving a 56 year prison sentence for child pornography.
  #112  
Old 05-22-2015, 06:22 PM
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The show has been pulled by TLC.
  #113  
Old 05-22-2015, 06:32 PM
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Kids get into a lot of abhorrent anti-social behavior. Deliberating injuring the family pet, arson, drugs, aggression against siblings (with significant injury) and sexual stuff. We have a completely different set of laws and courts for juveniles. Because society recognizes there is a strong chance the child's abhorrent behavior can be corrected.

We don't prejudge an adult by a troubled childhood. We can't just throw people away like that. There's always a good chance that with counseling a troubled kid can become a responsible adult.

I would have recommended professional counseling for Josh. But he wasn't my child. It wasn't my choice to make.

Last edited by aceplace57; 05-22-2015 at 06:35 PM.
  #114  
Old 05-22-2015, 06:36 PM
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That nasty prick was more concerned about getting right with God than the damage he did to his sisters. A real character defect of fundies - they think more about their eternal soul than those around them.
  #115  
Old 05-22-2015, 06:43 PM
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If this behavior had continued then I'd agree Josh is a sexual deviant. But there's no indication that any further incidents occurred after he talked with the state police. A family that big has no secrets. There's no way he could have continued without his brothers and sisters telling their dad.

The kid made a mistake. He was counseled and punished. Just like a parent does with any problem. They try to get help and correct the behavior so the kid matures into a responsible adult. Sometimes it works. Sometimes not. But there's no indication this abhorrent behavior continued into his adult life.
What about his victims? They'll live with the effects for the rest of their lives. But hey, it's all fine and dandy because he went to church camp and "prayed" away the problem.

The overall lack of concern for the victims tells me a lot about how society views victims of sexual abuse. I doubt the people making excuses for Josh would feel the same way if it was their own daughter who was molested.
  #116  
Old 05-22-2015, 06:46 PM
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Kids get into a lot of abhorrent anti-social behavior. Deliberating injuring the family pet, arson, drugs, aggression against siblings (with significant injury) and sexual stuff. We have a completely different set of laws and courts for juveniles. Because society recognizes there is a strong chance the child's abhorrent behavior can be corrected.
What about the girls? I see a lot about "Josh apologized" and "Josh feels bad about what he did" but what about the five girls that he molested? Are they just supposed to forgive him because he apologized? He covered it up for years. As I said before: he's not sorry, he's sorry he got caught.

These girls were sexually assaulted, by someone who they were supposed to be able to trust, and it doesn't seem like anybody in that family gives much of a damn about it. I don't give a damn about Josh's future--he should have thought about that before he groped his sisters. What I care about is what's being done to help the five girls cope with what happened to them--and not "counseling" that tells them that it's somehow their fault and that they "defrauded" their brother.

I'm not anti-Christian. I have Christian friends. I'm married to a devout Christian. But the particular corners of fundamentalist Christianity that are willing to overlook something like this and let young girls somehow feel wrong if they don't forgive their predator because he's "sorry" disgust me.
  #117  
Old 05-22-2015, 06:47 PM
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We're not throwing him away. He and his family are just finally being ushered off our television screens and newspaper covers. It's about time. Maybe they'll finally do something besides have large families, indoctrinate their kids with sexist religious fanaticism and pick on gay people. The Duggar girls might actually be able to get a decent education, perhaps even become the real midwives or skilled musicians or early childhood education teachers they would like to be.

They might even get real help to cope with their bro's abuse from trained professionals instead of moronic religious idiots who tell them the abuse was all their own fault. This could be the best thing that ever happened to the family.
  #118  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:00 PM
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An admitted child molester as Executive Director of the Family Research Council's lobbying arm. Now, that's something right there.
  #119  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:02 PM
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My cite is that I've heard Jim Bob and Michelle say on many occasions that it's the woman's responsibility not to stir up sexual desires in men.

Here's a cite for how Gothard followers handles sexual abuse. Jim Bob and Michelle are have been avid Gothard followers for years.

Counseling sexual abuse
This cute differs in two important respects from your original claim, which I will reproduce here as a reminder.

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The worst part is that JimBob and J'chelle believe that if a woman is sexually assaulted it's her fault for stirring up desires in the male.
Here are the two:

(1) It's a fallacy to impute to a "follower," each and every position of the person or group he follows. I, for example, am Roman Catholic, but I don't support each and every position the Church offers up for public consumption. So your cite purports to show what Gothard advises or teaches, not what JimBob and Michelle believe.

(2) With respect to what JimBob and Michelle have said, I agree such statements can be used to shows what they believe....but their statement doesn't seem to be about sexual assault. It's a more general statement about the advisability of modest dress. Sexual assault is not about sexual desire; it's about power. They could certainly believe that modest dress for women is desirable and at the same time not condemn victims of sexual assault for being at fault.

Do you have any cite for the claim you made, or not"
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  #120  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:06 PM
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Go lawyer it up somewhere else, Bricker. It's reasonable to believe the Duggar's beliefs are consistent with the faith they evangelize.
  #121  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:16 PM
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Um, ACE? It was not A mistake, it was repetitive actions. Read for comprehension, OK?
  #122  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:20 PM
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Talk to anyone in child development -- they will tell you that some forms of curiosity are normal, and others, like feeling up your baby sister, are absolutely not normal, not youthful indiscretions, not misdeeds of a teen, but signs of serious trouble that need to be treated. The Duggars did NOT seek treatment, they did some random things that now look like an effort to stall so the molestations were too far back to prosecute.
  #123  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:21 PM
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More importantly, as others have noted, nobody seems to have then, or now, been curious about how those girls are dealing with this.
  #124  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:28 PM
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Usually the disdained targets already have massive issues with reliability and credibility. When someone's been caught lying, or cheating, or said some easily refuted lies, they have less credibility when they make their next outrageous claim. The Duggars and the FRC are a bunch of fundamentalist shitheads with non-science views and a love of bigotry. That's the starting point. So when they do something shitty like this, they don't get the same benefit of the doubt that someone honest like Obama gets. They are held to a different standard because they are different.
That's a legitimate reason to doubt their credibility, of course. But it certainly doesn't justify a baseless claim. The Duggars could be the mayor of Liartown; that doesn't license a commentator to make inaccurate claims about them.


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I don't think so. You don't generally speak up when its about liberals. You either don't participate when they are getting trashed or you only participate when its conservatives. I'm not going to comb through any posts, too lazy, but I will ask that if its not true, you go into the Stupid Liberal Idea of the Day and defend the next 3 dumb liberal ideas with your usual panache of nitpicking and legal semantics
That's not accurate. I step into threads, and start threads, when inaccurate accusations are leveled against liberals. It's true that I do this rarely, but on the SDMB, it happens comparatively rarely that liberals are the victims of baseless attacks.

I don't follow the thread you mention, but even if I did, your proposed demonstration misses the boat. I'd certainly speak up if I disagreed with the attack, but why would I adopt a position I didn't agree with in order to defend a liberal idea?
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  #125  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:30 PM
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They reported it to someone who was supposed to be, by law, bound to report this to CPS, and didn't because he was a friend of the family. And they successfully covered it up till the statue of limitations expired.

Tough on crime? Family values? What is Huckabee thinking coming out in support of these people?

Last edited by elbows; 05-22-2015 at 07:31 PM.
  #126  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:34 PM
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This cute differs in two important respects from your original claim, which I will reproduce here as a reminder.



Here are the two:

(1) It's a fallacy to impute to a "follower," each and every position of the person or group he follows. I, for example, am Roman Catholic, but I don't support each and every position the Church offers up for public consumption. So your cite purports to show what Gothard advises or teaches, not what JimBob and Michelle believe.

(2) With respect to what JimBob and Michelle have said, I agree such statements can be used to shows what they believe....but their statement doesn't seem to be about sexual assault. It's a more general statement about the advisability of modest dress. Sexual assault is not about sexual desire; it's about power. They could certainly believe that modest dress for women is desirable and at the same time not condemn victims of sexual assault for being at fault.

Do you have any cite for the claim you made, or not"
I don't know exactly what you're looking for here. Michelle and Jim Bob live their lives by Gothard rules. What he says is law to them. What he believes, they believe.
  #127  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:35 PM
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Go lawyer it up somewhere else, Bricker. It's reasonable to believe the Duggar's beliefs are consistent with the faith they evangelize.
Sure it is. But Honey imputed to them a position that is not part of the faith they evangelize. It may, or may not, be a view held by one person that shares that faith and is an influential teacher thereof. But it's certainly not a core tenet.

As an example, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops teaches that the country should reject same-sex marriage laws. I believe that same-sex marriage is a wise choice for states to legislate.

If you concluded, from the USCCB position and my Catholicity that I disfavored same-sex marriage, you'd be wrong.

Do you understand?
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  #128  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:36 PM
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I don't know exactly what you're looking for here. Michelle and Jim Bob live their lives by Gothard rules. What he says is law to them. What he believes, they believe.
Oh.

So, perfect. Do you have a cite for THAT claim? What Gothard believes, they believe -- what's your proof of that claim?
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  #129  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:39 PM
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Theirs is not a cafeteria-style faith like yours.
  #130  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:40 PM
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Somebody linked to the Gothard guide to counseling victims of sexual abuse above. It is likely that this is the sort of counseling Josh's victim received.
  #131  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:42 PM
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Why are we arguing with Bricker? Why should we assume that the Duggars are actually feminists, advocates for child rights, who buried their son's history of molestation DESPITE their real beliefs, rather than take this quacking, waddling, billed thing for what it is? Please go open your lawyer thread somewhere else and good luck with that noble venture.
  #132  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:54 PM
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Theirs is not a cafeteria-style faith like yours.
What do you mean by, "Cafeteria style?"
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  #133  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:59 PM
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Their faith isn't one where followers can have this and not that and they'll TRY this but there's no way they're paying for that. This is one of those restaurants where you agree to the whole menu, soup to nuts, no substitutions.
  #134  
Old 05-22-2015, 08:00 PM
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Why are we arguing with Bricker? Why should we assume that the Duggars are actually feminists, advocates for child rights, who buried their son's history of molestation DESPITE their real beliefs, rather than take this quacking, waddling, billed thing for what it is? Please go open your lawyer thread somewhere else and good luck with that noble venture.
I don't know why we're doing that either. It really is largely a waste of time.

My personal bet was a reference by him to Lena Dunham which seems to be the way many conservatives are handing this mess.

The Duggars lunatic beliefs are not exactly hidden. They are religious fanatics with deeply antediluvian viewpoints. They hold sexist views of women, promote hatred against gays and espouse backwards ideas about issues such as evolution. Worse, they hold the belief that they should be allowed to force those views on others who do not share them. The sight of them finally being given the rightful mocking they deserve in the mainstream media is deeply satisfying to most rational people.
  #135  
Old 05-22-2015, 08:01 PM
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Besides that, there's no compelling reason to believe they are, despite their words and actions, actually radical feminists.

http://www.newsweek.com/inside-dugga...ideology-76547
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Old 05-22-2015, 08:02 PM
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Last comment was meant to piggyback on my previous one; I am in 100% agreement with Lavender.
  #137  
Old 05-22-2015, 08:03 PM
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Somebody linked to the Gothard guide to counseling victims of sexual abuse above. It is likely that this is the sort of counseling Josh's victim received.
Why is it likely?

See, here's the thing about fighting ignorance: it involves asking what the factual basis for claims is.

I'm sorry to rain on your parade, in which the theme is that accusations against disliked targets are immune from the need for accuracy, but the fact is that you don't get to make these sorts of unchallenged claims. And when called on it, you don't seem to understand that merely repeating uncited claims does not lend them credence.
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  #138  
Old 05-22-2015, 08:07 PM
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I don't know why we're doing that either. It really is largely a waste of time.

My personal bet was a reference by him to Lena Dunham which seems to be the way many conservatives are handing this mess.

The Duggars lunatic beliefs are not exactly hidden. They are religious fanatics with deeply antediluvian viewpoints. They hold sexist views of women, promote hatred against gays and espouse backwards ideas about issues such as evolution. Worse, they hold the belief that they should be allowed to force those views on others who do not share them. The sight of them finally being given the rightful mocking they deserve in the mainstream media is deeply satisfying to most rational people.
Rightful mocking is fine, and I don't object in the least to it.

Mocking that rests on false claims is not rightful.
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  #139  
Old 05-22-2015, 09:08 PM
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Looks like 19 Kids and Counting is being replaced with The Bricker Show.
  #140  
Old 05-22-2015, 09:18 PM
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Um, ACE? It was not A mistake, it was repetitive actions. Read for comprehension, OK?
I said Josh's teenage behavior was abhorrent and deviant. I wish the juvenile courts would have heard the case. He would have been ordered into long term counseling and therapy.

I just can't condem an Adult for something they did in childhood. That goes against everything our modern juvenile courts stand for. They even seal juvenile court records when the kid turns 18. Giving them a fresh start in life as an adult. How they use that second chance is up to them. Some troubled kids spend their adult lives in and out of prison. Some live responsible and productive lives. It's important they aren't stigmatized and condemned as adults for something they did as a juvenile. Getting a job for example, or joining the military. Their childhood court records are sealed for a reason.

I'm pretty sure child services will be interviewing Josh's family. They'll want to interview his kids and make sure nothing inappropriate has transpired. If he is an adult pedo then sadly they will find evidence. I hope for his kid's sake that Josh today is a normally adjusted adult. But child protective services needs to investigate and confirm the welfare of his family.

Last edited by aceplace57; 05-22-2015 at 09:22 PM.
  #141  
Old 05-22-2015, 09:27 PM
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Josh has spent his adult life with an organization that wants to demand we all live under his idiotic brand of religious stupidity. Fuck him.
  #142  
Old 05-22-2015, 09:37 PM
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Josh has spent his adult life with an organization that wants to demand we all live under his idiotic brand of religious stupidity. Fuck him.
Bolding mine. And, no thank you!
  #143  
Old 05-22-2015, 10:10 PM
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Bolding mine. And, no thank you!
It could have been worse. I could have written fuck Michelle Duggar . . . passes Baker the brain bleach.

  #144  
Old 05-22-2015, 10:17 PM
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Did anyone see the episode of "Say Yes to the Dress" in which Michelle and Jim-Bob and some of the family appeared? The folks were renewing their vows and since their first wedding had been so simple Michelle was getting a fancy dress. Of course it had sleeves and a high neckline, and I have no problem with that. But when her female consultant showed Michelle to the changing room she insisted on being alone to dress herself, on account of her "modesty". This from a woman who's had nineteen children and is no stranger, I'm sure, to having a doctor looking up her hoo-ha.
  #145  
Old 05-22-2015, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
It got the Robertsons their show back.
Phil ROBINSON said some pretty vile things...but that's in no way equivalent to out right molestation.

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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
Josh was a young teen when this occurred. The father reported it to the police. Since then Josh has had no further known issues.

Its pretty silly to label a young teen a pedo for being curious about girls. What he did was wrong and illegal. But it in no way reflects on his behavior as an adult. He was a curious and horny teen with hormones running wild. Just like any other horny young boy who gets his first erection. Their dick gets hard when the wind blows.

He lived in a huge family. He would have been caught if he had gone into their bedrooms and continued touching the girls. AFAIK theres been no further incidents since it was reported to the police.

TLC must have known.

Most "horny teens" don't molest their sisters, or anyone else for that matter. I don't care how many erections he got -- he could deal with it the way the vast majority of teenagers do and spank it.


And his so-called "apology" seemed more self-serving than anything else. Did you read what he said?

I understood that if I continued down this wrong road that I would end up ruining my life, said Duggar. I sought forgiveness from those I had wronged and asked Christ to forgive me and come into my life.

HIS life. He asked CHRIST to forgive him. Not his victims. He didn't stop because he was afraid of the harm he might be doing to other people. He was afraid because of what it might to do HIM. Fuck him.

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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
I would have recommended professional counseling for Josh.
Oh for JOSH. That's nice. What about his sisters? Poor, poor Josh. He just made a mistake! Fuck him.

And IIRC, didn't Josh equate homosexuals with pedophiles? FUCK HIM.


If You're Defending Josh Duggar, You're the Problem
  #146  
Old 05-22-2015, 11:22 PM
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If this behavior had continued then I'd agree Josh is a sexual deviant. But there's no indication that any further incidents occurred after he talked with the state police. A family that big has no secrets. There's no way he could have continued without his brothers and sisters telling their dad.

The kid made a mistake. He was counseled and punished. Just like a parent does with any problem. They try to get help and correct the behavior so the kid matures into a responsible adult. Sometimes it works. Sometimes not. But there's no indication this abhorrent behavior continued into his adult life.

You know nothing about fundamentalist life. It's all about shaming others and keeping appearances. Why do you think there's so many pastors that are felled by gay indiscretions? Because they have to appear straight to world, all the while wagging their fingers at everyone else for the same so-called deviant behavior they engage in. Similarly, that's this family's stock in trade. I bet there's no way he couldn't molested FIVE DIFFERENT GIRLS, four of which were HIS SISTERS, and then just went back to being normal because they prayed it away. No, that's the story they share with gullible outsiders.

And I do like what someone observed about their "values".......

Kissing your future spouse before marriage? NO!

Molesting your sisters? YES!
  #147  
Old 05-22-2015, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
Phil ROBINSON said some pretty vile things...but that's in no way equivalent to out right molestation.

No, Robertson is the family name.

But carry on.
  #148  
Old 05-23-2015, 12:20 AM
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Why is it likely?

See, here's the thing about fighting ignorance: it involves asking what the factual basis for claims is.

I'm sorry to rain on your parade, in which the theme is that accusations against disliked targets are immune from the need for accuracy, but the fact is that you don't get to make these sorts of unchallenged claims. And when called on it, you don't seem to understand that merely repeating uncited claims does not lend them credence.
No, it's not. Fighting ignorance would mean finding contradictory evidence, not constantly asking for proof over things that are perfectly reasonable to believe. These are Quiverfull people--their beliefs are not unknown, and it's reasonable to believe they believe what other Quiverfull people believe, unless they state otherwise.

You just seem to be incredulous that people could actually believe or practice these things, which is not a position from which to fight ignorance. You have no special understanding on this matter at all, unlike when you do this with legal issues.

You're even challenging someone saying the word "likely," hedging themselves because they know they don't know for sure. That's ridiculous.

I get that a conservative religious group being accused of covering up child molestation hits close to home for you. But what you are doing here is not fighting ignorance but being defensive.
  #149  
Old 05-23-2015, 12:20 AM
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My mistake. But I think the point still stands. Saying something homophobic is pretty bad, but it in no way compares to child molestation.
  #150  
Old 05-23-2015, 07:58 AM
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Here comes Mama June to step into the fray
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