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  #1  
Old 01-05-2018, 06:15 PM
foolsguinea foolsguinea is offline
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I forget, do we have a general HurricaneDitka Pit thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
*shrug* it's done now, Trump fixed it, so it's not terribly relevant anymore.
There are Dopers who would say that bit of nonsense sarcastically. But no, you're really that silly.

So, what, your great Christian hero just undid the horrors of the Muslim usurper, so never mind what those horrors were? This is dumb.
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Why, in an argument between two Western democratic liberal (yes, classically liberal) capitalist factions, does one keep trying to argue against a caricature of Brezhnev-era Eastern Bloc central planning?
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Old 01-05-2018, 06:20 PM
JRDelirious JRDelirious is offline
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As to your Thread Title question, would this not count?
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Old 01-05-2018, 06:26 PM
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Yes, there was the one about him being full of shit. Perhaps there could be one about his predilection for posting only in forumses that guard against proper vitriolic responses.
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:40 AM
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Trump fixed things by deporting FEWER criminals, while promoting 17 different kinds of shitty? I'd ask him to "fix" my car, but I have no use for a hole in my driveway.
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:53 AM
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I just want to jump in to say that I oppose this pitting. HD has some bad posts, sure, but I think he mostly posts in good faith. Plus, I think he has moderated a lot since he first joined, not that long ago. He's still very conservative, but my impression is that he generally debates fairly, listens and responds to arguments, etc.

This place has few enough thoughtful conservatives and HD is one, or has become one anyway. In my view, he has stuck to his principles but has adjusted well to the generally civil tone of this board.

Reading this again, I wouldn't be surprised if he found this post to be super condescending. I really mean this in a defensive way, not a condescending way.
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:54 AM
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He supports torture for money.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:02 AM
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HD has some bad posts, sure, but I think he mostly posts in good faith. Plus, I think he has moderated a lot since he first joined, not that long ago. He's still very conservative, but my impression is that he generally debates fairly, listens and responds to arguments, etc
I agree with this. I feel this way about a lot of conservative posters that people hate. I want people I don't agree with to post here. But that doesn't mean nothing they (he) has said isn't Pitworthy.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:23 AM
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It's like we need a pit reason to pit Octopus' older brother? Seriously, they are from the same nest.
  #9  
Old 01-06-2018, 10:35 AM
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Pit fail. Hurricane Ditka is smarter than the OP.
  #10  
Old 01-06-2018, 01:22 PM
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Pit fail. Hurricane Ditka is smarter than the OP.
Talk about damning with faint praise...

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  #11  
Old 01-06-2018, 05:20 PM
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Pit fail. Hurricane Ditka is smarter than the OP.
If he is, it does not show on this board.
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Old 01-06-2018, 06:31 PM
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Pit fail. Hurricane Ditka is smarter than the OP.
Doubtful.
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  #13  
Old 01-11-2018, 06:56 AM
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If there was any doubt if HurricaneDitka's support of Trump was related to possible sympathy for white supremacists and white supremacism:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I think Timothy McVeigh's actions were not an entirely unreasonable reaction to Ruby Ridge and Waco.
Not much doubt any more, ISTM.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:53 AM
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He definitely posted that for the effect.
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:28 AM
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And what would that effect be?
  #16  
Old 01-11-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
If there was any doubt if HurricaneDitka's support of Trump was related to possible sympathy for white supremacists and white supremacism:



Not much doubt any more, ISTM.
I hope no one tries to get him to explain this. No good is going to come from that. Best to not feed.
  #17  
Old 01-11-2018, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
If there was any doubt if HurricaneDitka's support of Trump was related to possible sympathy for white supremacists and white supremacism:



Not much doubt any more, ISTM.
You have a very strong tendency to to look at things through a racial lens. But you need to appreciate that not everyone else does.
  #18  
Old 01-11-2018, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
I think Timothy McVeigh's actions were not an entirely unreasonable reaction to Ruby Ridge and Waco.
Cite

I'm speechless

First, I don't have much sympathy for the guys at Waco. Ruby Ridge was a disaster, but shit happens sometimes. Neither, under any circumstances or any view of the facts, justify OK City Federal Building bombing.
  #19  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
You have a very strong tendency to to look at things through a racial lens. But you need to appreciate that not everyone else does.
Most people that I've spoken to who have expressed a belief that black people (or Jews, or Mexicans, or some other ethnic/racial/etc. group) are inferior in some way (this is just an example -- I'm not aware of HD saying anything like this directly) don't actually believe they are racist, and are aghast if/when anyone says that anything they've said or done is racist. Sympathizing with/supporting a white supremacist mass murderer is "looking at things through a racial lens", whether one realizes it or not.

It's possible that HD is just trolling, and it's probably even possible that his sympathy for the motives and actions of a white supremacist mass murderer like McVeigh is unrelated to white supremacism, but the latter strikes me as unlikely enough to put into that little basket of things that are not really worth considering without really strong evidence.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 01-11-2018 at 10:07 AM.
  #20  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
You have a very strong tendency to to look at things through a racial lens. But you need to appreciate that not everyone else does.
Did you just call Andy4eyes a racist? I seriously doubt that is anywhere near the case.
  #21  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:17 AM
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Did you just call Andy4eyes a racist? I seriously doubt that is anywhere near the case.
That's not how I interpreted what he said. I took it as something like "quit making everything about race!"
  #22  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Sympathizing with/supporting a white supremacist mass murderer is "looking at things through a racial lens", whether one realizes it or not.
He didn't sign on to agree with McVeigh's entire worldview. He was discussing McVeigh's bombing, which AFAICT was primarily motivated by anti-government views and not white supremacism. Which is certainly what HD seemed to be assuming, at any rate, because the Waco incident had nothing to do with White supremacism.
  #23  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:35 AM
pulykamell pulykamell is offline
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Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
Cite

I'm speechless

First, I don't have much sympathy for the guys at Waco. Ruby Ridge was a disaster, but shit happens sometimes. Neither, under any circumstances or any view of the facts, justify OK City Federal Building bombing.
Ya know, I've always been okay with HD, but, wow. That really shades my opinion quite a bit.
  #24  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
He didn't sign on to agree with McVeigh's entire worldview. He was discussing McVeigh's bombing, which AFAICT was primarily motivated by anti-government views and not white supremacism. Which is certainly what HD seemed to be assuming, at any rate, because the Waco incident had nothing to do with White supremacism.
Occam's Razor says the answer is trolling.
  #25  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
He didn't sign on to agree with McVeigh's entire worldview. He was discussing McVeigh's bombing, which AFAICT was primarily motivated by anti-government views and not white supremacism. Which is certainly what HD seemed to be assuming, at any rate, because the Waco incident had nothing to do with White supremacism.
IMO, ignoring or failing to see open white supremacism is just as much "looking at things through a racial lens" as pointing it out.

But trolling seems just as likely to me, based on various other posts of his that strike me as probable trolling.
  #26  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
He didn't sign on to agree with McVeigh's entire worldview. He was discussing McVeigh's bombing, which AFAICT was primarily motivated by anti-government views and not white supremacism. Which is certainly what HD seemed to be assuming, at any rate, because the Waco incident had nothing to do with White supremacism.
Aside from that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?
  #27  
Old 01-11-2018, 11:08 AM
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I hope no one tries to get him to explain this. No good is going to come from that. Best to not feed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
He didn't sign on to agree with McVeigh's entire worldview. He was discussing McVeigh's bombing, which AFAICT was primarily motivated by anti-government views and not white supremacism. Which is certainly what HD seemed to be assuming, at any rate, because the Waco incident had nothing to do with White supremacism.
Like I said-- no good is going to come from this.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:31 AM
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I agree that any of our resident right-wingers who want to try defending Tim McVeigh aren't going to have that work out so well for them.

And limiting yourself to defending the defenders of Tim McVeigh? That isn't going to work so well either. Playing defense attorney for admirers of Tim McVeigh is a fool's errand. This isn't a court of law, Tim McVeigh's admirers aren't your clients, you do not have a professional obligation to zealously defend them.

Let the people who admire Tim McVeigh defend themselves. You don't have to do it for them.
  #29  
Old 01-11-2018, 11:53 AM
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I don't know that HD is an admirer of TM, having merely said that his actions were not an "entirely unreasonable reaction". But leaving that aside, I've not defended HD - I've simply disputed a racial interpretation of his words.

I realize this may be too nuanced for certain people here, and am not inclined to repeat this over and over again, so I'll probably leave it at this.
  #30  
Old 01-11-2018, 12:02 PM
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If McVeigh had been a large-scale vandal, or hacked into government systems and scrambled thousands of man-hours of work, or similar, then perhaps one could have a reasonable discussion about whether his actions were in any way reasonable. But he was a mass murderer of men, women, and children -- and white supremacism (in particular the Turner Diaries, based on my reading) was fundamental to his ideology. It's both unreasonable to feel that the bombing was in any way reasonable, and it's unreasonable to believe that it didn't have anything to do with white supremacism. IMO.

But I'll put the likelihood that he's trolling as just as high as the likelihood he's a tolerator or sympathizer of white supremacism.
  #31  
Old 01-11-2018, 12:24 PM
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It's both unreasonable to feel that the bombing was in any way reasonable, and it's unreasonable to believe that it didn't have anything to do with white supremacism. IMO.
I don't see where the latter follows, honestly. It's possible to believe terrorism is an understandable response to Waco without believing in the racist ideologies of the particular terrorist who did it. The opinion is repugnant enough as stated without reading things into it.

Last edited by Spice Weasel; 01-11-2018 at 12:25 PM.
  #32  
Old 01-11-2018, 12:50 PM
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I don't see where the latter follows, honestly. It's possible to believe terrorism is an understandable response to Waco without believing in the racist ideologies of the particular terrorist who did it. The opinion is repugnant enough as stated without reading things into it.
When I stack on various other positions of the poster in question, it seems less and less likely that sympathy or tolerance for white supremacism isn't a part of it. Possible, but pretty unlikely, ISTM.

Or trolling, which seems just as likely, IMO.
  #33  
Old 01-11-2018, 01:15 PM
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If McVeigh had been a large-scale vandal, or hacked into government systems and scrambled thousands of man-hours of work, or similar, then perhaps one could have a reasonable discussion about whether his actions were in any way reasonable. But he was a mass murderer of men, women, and children -- and white supremacism (in particular the Turner Diaries, based on my reading) was fundamental to his ideology. It's both unreasonable to feel that the bombing was in any way reasonable, and it's unreasonable to believe that it didn't have anything to do with white supremacism. IMO.

But I'll put the likelihood that he's trolling as just as high as the likelihood he's a tolerator or sympathizer of white supremacism.
I dunno. I see virtually no difference between that statement and "I think Osama Bin Laden's actions were not an entirely unreasonable reaction to Iraq."

I disagree with both. While I can see how the events of one led to the other, it is only through irrationality and unreasonable "logic", that one justifies murdering civilians in response to some perceived slight by a government power.

At the same time, while I would disagree entirely with someone who opined in that fashion, I wouldn't think that they agreed with the taliban's goals of creating a caliphate.
  #34  
Old 01-11-2018, 01:48 PM
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the mc veigh argument reminds me of why a few people I knew opposed desert storm 1 because supposedly Kuwait owed Iraq a large amount of cash and they looked at the invasion like a car repossession... and wondered why we were getting involved in someone else's financial dispute
  #35  
Old 01-11-2018, 03:33 PM
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He also has a tremendous amount of concern regarding Democrats.

Last edited by John Mace; 01-11-2018 at 03:33 PM.
  #36  
Old 01-12-2018, 09:57 AM
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Most people that I've spoken to who have expressed a belief that black people (or Jews, or Mexicans, or some other ethnic/racial/etc. group) are inferior in some way (this is just an example -- I'm not aware of HD saying anything like this directly) don't actually believe they are racist, and are aghast if/when anyone says that anything they've said or done is racist. Sympathizing with/supporting a white supremacist mass murderer is "looking at things through a racial lens", whether one realizes it or not.

It's possible that HD is just trolling, and it's probably even possible that his sympathy for the motives and actions of a white supremacist mass murderer like McVeigh is unrelated to white supremacism, but the latter strikes me as unlikely enough to put into that little basket of things that are not really worth considering without really strong evidence.
When people join the US military, which has murdered many millions of innocent non-“whites”, it is hard to take them seriusly when they lament white supremacy.

The US military is basically a white supremacist organization with access to stolen money and deadlier weapons. This point has been made much clearer after 9/11 for the thinking citizenry of the world. Anyone who has joined the military after 9/11 is on average much worse than WWII era German soldiers because most of those guys were conscripted slaves. Today’s military is voluntarily murderous.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:02 AM
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“I think people who joined the US military after 9/11 were not entirely unreasonable in their reaction to the events of 9/11.”

Do you agree with this statement Andy?
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:22 AM
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“I think people who joined the US military after 9/11 were not entirely unreasonable in their reaction to the events of 9/11.”

Do you agree with this statement Andy?
I agree that that and your post before are false dilemmas.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:33 AM
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I agree that that and your post before are false dilemmas.
No the dilemma in Andy’s head is quite real.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:35 AM
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He also has a tremendous amount of concern regarding Democrats.
Nothing stains more conservative pillows with tears, other than maybe their deep, heartfelt concern over gang violence in the South Side of Chicago, triggered every time there's a mass shooting somewhere else.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:37 AM
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When people join the US military, which has murdered many millions of innocent non-“whites”, it is hard to take them seriusly when they lament white supremacy.

The US military is basically a white supremacist organization with access to stolen money and deadlier weapons. This point has been made much clearer after 9/11 for the thinking citizenry of the world. Anyone who has joined the military after 9/11 is on average much worse than WWII era German soldiers because most of those guys were conscripted slaves. Today’s military is voluntarily murderous.
I hadn't noticed you before.
  #42  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:41 AM
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No the dilemma in Andy’s head is quite real.
piffle.

Go ahead and deny that a lot of the strawman that you are making was changed decades ago by Harry S. Truman.

So you only made yourself to be an ignoramus of history, want to make it worse? Please proceed governor...
  #43  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:42 AM
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I hadn't noticed you before.
Yeah, that was quite a post. I wonder if we're missing an attempt at satire or something.
  #44  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:51 AM
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No the dilemma in Andy’s head is quite real.
Whatever nonsense/fantasyland stuff you're talking about, it has nothing to do with this thread; if you want to start a new thread about your whackjob nutty views about the world, feel free, but I feel no need to indulge your wackiness in this one.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:55 AM
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Yeah, that was quite a post. I wonder if we're missing an attempt at satire or something.
I'm giving him the benefit for a very short minute here. If he's equating those who serve their country with those who seek to violently destroy it, then things might change quickly here. I'm hoping it's satire.
  #46  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:01 AM
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I'm giving him the benefit for a very short minute here. If he's equating those who serve their country with those who seek to violently destroy it, then things might change quickly here. I'm hoping it's satire.
probably not satire
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:25 AM
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I hadn't noticed you before.
I thought he was Der Trihs!
  #48  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:33 AM
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I'm giving him the benefit for a very short minute here. If he's equating those who serve their country with those who seek to violently destroy it, then things might change quickly here. I'm hoping it's satire.
It could just be his beef with me. He's been saying hateful things about me personally for a long time on this board.
  #49  
Old 01-12-2018, 01:02 PM
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I hadn't noticed you before.
WillF crawls out specifically to spew his hatred in threads where he can get in random digs at liberals. I believe he's racist and that he has some mighty strange views on the Civil War. I'll have to look for those threads. I might be mis-remembering that bit.
  #50  
Old 01-12-2018, 01:09 PM
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Will is a hardcore anarchocapitalist who believes that the United States went to hell in 1788 when the fascists overturned the Articles of Confederation, then it went to hell again in 1865 when the fascists won the Civil War, then it went to hell again in 1935 when the fascists implemented the New Deal, then it went to hell again in 1964 when the fascists passed the Civil Rights act.
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