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  #51  
Old 03-07-2018, 01:00 PM
Sunny Daze Sunny Daze is online now
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Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
You mean the blacks don't all know each other?
Well, my kids are still waiting for the directory.

Last edited by Sunny Daze; 03-07-2018 at 01:01 PM.
  #52  
Old 03-07-2018, 01:08 PM
3trew 3trew is offline
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Well, my kids are still waiting for the directory.
Yeah, about that... we're going to be delayed on printing the directory again, the latest set of changes to the Homosexual Agenda just came in and we're going to have to retool to handle the special paper.
  #53  
Old 03-07-2018, 01:32 PM
Eonwe Eonwe is offline
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Agree with this pitting.

And I ask HoneyBadgerDC:

If what you say is true. How long has it been true? Have blacks just been their own worst enemy since the Civil War? Since they got the right to vote? Since the invention of rap music? Since they started getting good at (allowed to play) basketball? Did blacks always have bad role models, or did that problem happen at a moment in history. I'd honestly like to know when that was, and if you could describe what that transition looked like. When did black Americans turn their back on American culture and community to follow anti-leaders?
  #54  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:01 PM
Helena330 Helena330 is offline
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Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerDC View Post
I agree with you, but the sad truth is fair or not fair that the burden will always be on the one suffering to pull him or her self out of this mess.
BULLSHIT. We're the ones who oppressed black people and we're the ones who created the stereotypes. How are they supposed to fight against that? It's up to US white people to pull our heads out of our privileged asses, fix the structural issues, and realize that equality doesn't oppress us.
  #55  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:20 PM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is online now
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Originally Posted by Helena330 View Post
BULLSHIT. We're the ones who oppressed black people and we're the ones who created the stereotypes. How are they supposed to fight against that? It's up to US white people to pull our heads out of our privileged asses, fix the structural issues, and realize that equality doesn't oppress us.
Yep and meanwhile, while you are waiting for this to happen millions of lives continue to live far beneath their potential. I have no doubt your hearts in the right place but it isn't helping much. And as for stereo types. These stereo types don't persist without a reason. Recognizing statistics does not make one a racist. It gives us information about where we should be addressing problems.
  #56  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:23 PM
Asimovian Asimovian is offline
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These stereo types don't persist without a reason.
Well, this statement of yours is accurate, at least.
  #57  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:24 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
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Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerDC View Post
And as for stereo types. These stereo types don't persist without a reason. Recognizing statistics does not make one a racist. It gives us information about where we should be addressing problems.
The reason isn't statistics. Again, these stereotypes came about long before there were any statistics. They came about at a time in which white men routinely raped black women and brutalized (and even murdered) black men, while the opposite was much, much more rare. Why, then, did the stereotype develop that black men were aggressive and dangerous to white women, when it was white men who were a far, far greater threat to black people then the reverse?

The answer is pretty obvious -- because these stereotypes were developed in order to control black people and maintain white supremacism. Statistics have never mattered for these stereotypes. Now isn't suddenly a special magical time.... these stereotypes are over a century old. If you're buying into them, then you're doing your part to maintain and continue white supremacism. That's a choice that you don't have to make.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 03-07-2018 at 02:25 PM.
  #58  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:25 PM
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IS there anything that white men can do to help alleviate the plight of the American blacks?
You can get cops to stop shooting us down in the streets with no provocation.
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  #59  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:25 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is online now
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You can get cops to stop shooting us down in the streets with no provocation.
I would love to do that. Any suggestions on how to go about doing that?
  #60  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:30 PM
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I would love to do that. Any suggestions on how to go about doing that?
Maybe you can tell them. They won't listen to us.
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  #61  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:30 PM
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I would love to do that. Any suggestions on how to go about doing that?
Why has this become the "Teach manson1972 how to not be a racist" thread? You wanna help? Don't be a racist. If you aren't a racist, you are helping. No go-- release your white man's burden.
  #62  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:31 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
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I would love to do that. Any suggestions on how to go about doing that?
Support (financially and with your time, if possible) BLM and similar organizations; vote for politicians that support their agenda; encourage others to do so; film (if possible) any police mistreatment you witness, and if not possible, then be brave enough to report what you saw honestly. IMO, anyway.
  #63  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:34 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is online now
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Why has this become the "Teach manson1972 how to not be a racist" thread? You wanna help? Don't be a racist. If you aren't a racist, you are helping. No go-- release your white man's burden.
Has it? I wasn't aware that asking people how a white man can help alleviate the plight of the American black is considered racist.

Strange. Me telling people what to do is white-splaining. And me asking what to do is racist.

Guess I'm out of options then - it's Bud Lite time! Good luck with the plight!
  #64  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:36 PM
Not a Platypus Not a Platypus is offline
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Yep and meanwhile, while you are waiting for this to happen millions of lives continue to live far beneath their potential. I have no doubt your hearts in the right place but it isn't helping much. And as for stereo types. These stereo types don't persist without a reason. Recognizing statistics does not make one a racist. It gives us information about where we should be addressing problems.
It's true that recognizing statistics does not make one racist. However, we need to also recognize the bigger picture when we're looking at what problems to address.

Part of the systemic problem that needs to be resolved is black people being unreasonably targeted for arrests. If a group is being singled out for punishment for the same crimes every group commits, the statistics are going to be flawed and will only serve to continue perpetuating the stereotype that black people commit more crimes. If confirmation bias leads people to notice rowdy black kids but not the rowdy white kids down the block, the problem is not the black kids, and blaming them does not help anyone.
  #65  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:37 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is online now
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Has it? I wasn't aware that asking people how a white man can help alleviate the plight of the American black is considered racist.

Strange. Me telling people what to do is white-splaining. And me asking what to do is racist.

Guess I'm out of options then - it's Bud Lite time! Good luck with the plight!
Welp, you gave it the ol' college try. I had a feeling you were the door #3 contestant.
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Last edited by QuickSilver; 03-07-2018 at 02:39 PM.
  #66  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:38 PM
Knowed Out Knowed Out is offline
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I'm white, and there's plenty of whites that are an embarrassment to the race. Rednecks, white trash, white supremacists, etc. Some even act "urban." Whites just happen to be in power (for now).

The "improper upbringing" angle applies to all races.
  #67  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:40 PM
Inigo Montoya Inigo Montoya is online now
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Originally Posted by Helena330 View Post
BULLSHIT. We're the ones who oppressed black people and we're the ones who created the stereotypes. How are they supposed to fight against that? It's up to US white people to pull our heads out of our privileged asses, fix the structural issues, and realize that equality doesn't oppress us.
Hey, whaddayamean "We"? If you want to admit culpability for any oppression then get on down, but leave me out of it. Alternatively, you can point me to the place where my middle-class white opinion counts for anything in making adjustments to the political & judicial structures in my community (there ain't any such place, that was rhetorical).

The people who need to pull their heads out of their asses are the ones who think real societal power is based on any color other than green. There's racists all over the color palette--they're ignorant assholes but they're just pawns, not the problem.
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  #68  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:40 PM
wonky wonky is online now
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Has it? I wasn't aware that asking people how a white man can help alleviate the plight of the American black is considered racist.

Strange. Me telling people what to do is white-splaining. And me asking what to do is racist.

Guess I'm out of options then - it's Bud Lite time! Good luck with the plight!
Sincerity: If you can fake that, you've got it made!

Buddy, you ain't got it made. I don't think you have even bought the ingredients.
  #69  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:43 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is online now
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Sincerity: If you can fake that, you've got it made!

Buddy, you ain't got it made. I don't think you have even bought the ingredients.
Wow, you really told me!

At least one person answered in a productive way. Amazing how snarky and sarcastic others get when asked questions that require answers more specific than "Reverse systemic racism!"

Keep on thinking you are doing anything to better anything in this country though. You be you.
  #70  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:44 PM
Kimstu Kimstu is offline
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I would love to do that. Any suggestions on how to go about doing that?
Folks, this performed helplessness is getting embarrassing. Are you seriously that unaware of ways in which (white) people can participate in curbing LEO violence against unoffending black people?

For instance, you can join a Black Lives Matter march. If you're part of the #NeverAgain movement against gun violence, you can incorporate Black Lives Matter talking points into that activism. You can support the ACLU's efforts to oppose police abuses of power, and follow the guidelines in their excellent Community Action Manual for that purpose. You can support instituting or strengthening a civilian review board of your local police system. You can vote for candidates who are endorsed by organizations like the ACLU or a state or national police reform advocacy group for their policing reform objectives.

"Any suggestions". Sheesh. May I suggest in the first place eschewing this tone of inert limpwimp passivity.

Last edited by Kimstu; 03-07-2018 at 02:45 PM.
  #71  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:45 PM
Penfeather Penfeather is offline
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Why has this become the "Teach manson1972 how to not be a racist" thread? You wanna help? Don't be a racist. If you aren't a racist, you are helping. No go-- release your white man's burden.
The Brown Man's Burden:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Labouchere, 1899:

Pile on the brown manís burden
To gratify your greed;
Go, clear away the ďniggersĒ
Who progress would impede;
Be very stern, for truly
íTis useless to be mild
With new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half devil and half child.

Pile on the brown manís burden;
And, if ye rouse his hate,
Meet his old-fashioned reasons
With Maxims up to date.
With shells and dumdum bullets
A hundred times made plain
The brown manís loss must ever
Imply the white manís gain.
  #72  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:45 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
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Has it? I wasn't aware that asking people how a white man can help alleviate the plight of the American black is considered racist.

Strange. Me telling people what to do is white-splaining. And me asking what to do is racist.

Guess I'm out of options then - it's Bud Lite time! Good luck with the plight!
Who called you racist?
  #73  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:45 PM
wonky wonky is online now
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Keep on thinking you are doing anything to better anything in this country though. You be you.
Okey dokey!
  #74  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:50 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is online now
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Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
Folks, this performed helplessness is getting embarrassing. Are you seriously that unaware of ways in which (white) people can participate in curbing LEO violence against unoffending black people?

For instance, you can join a Black Lives Matter march. If you're part of the #NeverAgain movement against gun violence, you can incorporate Black Lives Matter talking points into that activism. You can support the ACLU's efforts to oppose police abuses of power, and follow the guidelines in their excellent Community Action Manual for that purpose. You can support instituting or strengthening a civilian review board of your local police system. You can vote for candidates who are endorsed by organizations like the ACLU or a state or national police reform advocacy group for their policing reform objectives.

"Any suggestions". Sheesh. May I suggest in the first place eschewing this tone of inert limpwimp passivity.
Thank you, sarcasm aside.

As you and others may or may not be aware, there are literally thousands of choices for what one can do to improve certain aspects of life for certain people. Probably 10s of thousands. Picking a few things out of that long list is quite onerous, especially when one actually wants to select things that will actually DO something. I know for a lot of you "Posting outrage on a message board" is about the best activism you can gin up for yourself, but there are some who would actually like to accomplish something other than getting agreement and sympathy from like-minded message board users.

So, asking people who might actually know a thing or two about effective programs, organizations, or other things to point out the best ones seems to be the best way ahead. Strange that someone who genuinely wants to help gets crap for it. Maybe I'll just donate money to the ACLU and sit back and think "Weeeeee, I'm helping!"
  #75  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:53 PM
Blank Slate Blank Slate is offline
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The OP is Biggirl.

Right?
Yah, sorry for the confusion. I was using OP as "original post" as in the one being pitted, but it was erroneous usage.

I've always liked Biggirl. I doubt she's pitted anyone before. This one is richly deserved.
  #76  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:53 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is online now
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You can support the ACLU's efforts to oppose police abuses of power, and follow the guidelines in their excellent Community Action Manual for that purpose
Thanks for linking this.
  #77  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:54 PM
wonky wonky is online now
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Thank you, sarcasm aside.

As you and others may or may not be aware, there are literally thousands of choices for what one can do to improve certain aspects of life for certain people. Probably 10s of thousands. Picking a few things out of that long list is quite onerous, especially when one actually wants to select things that will actually DO something. I know for a lot of you "Posting outrage on a message board" is about the best activism you can gin up for yourself, but there are some who would actually like to accomplish something other than getting agreement and sympathy from like-minded message board users.

So, asking people who might actually know a thing or two about effective programs, organizations, or other things to point out the best ones seems to be the best way ahead. Strange that someone who genuinely wants to help gets crap for it. Maybe I'll just donate money to the ACLU and sit back and think "Weeeeee, I'm helping!"
"Damn you for not knowing anything and being useless at activism, while denying me the fruits of your knowledge! I'M BEING SO SINCERE!"
  #78  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:54 PM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is online now
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I'm white, and there's plenty of whites that are an embarrassment to the race. Rednecks, white trash, white supremacists, etc. Some even act "urban." Whites just happen to be in power (for now).

The "improper upbringing" angle applies to all races.
I agree with this also. Almost all creatures on earth use identifiable features as a first line in avoiding danger or conflict or threats of any kind. The more we become familiar with a particular creature the better we are able to assess the level of threat and we are able to refine our assessment technique. The less familiar the more generalized out assessment will be. Skin heads with tattoos raise alarm bells. Dirty clothes raise alarms, hair styles, lots of things. I think one big problem with race in this country is that a lot of us just have not become familiar enough with each other.

I went to my 50th high school reunion about a year ago. I was talking with a black lady from my class. A retired school teacher in Los Angeles school system. She was telling me how when she graduated high school she couldn't wait to get out into the world and she was convinced that racism was pretty much over. Our school was very integrated, we played and socialized freely amongst the races. As soon as she entered college she realized that racism was still alive and well. The blacks sat in their areas and the whites hung out in theirs with a little bit of inter mingling. For the next 50 years she had basically no interaction with whites beyond work or business related things. This is a sad reality in this country.
  #79  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:55 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is online now
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"Damn you for not knowing anything and being useless at activism, while denying me the fruits of your knowledge! I'M BEING SO SINCERE!"
Meh, believe what you want. The next time you are at a BLM rally, let me know and I'll join you.

Last edited by manson1972; 03-07-2018 at 02:55 PM.
  #80  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:55 PM
Biggirl Biggirl is online now
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Has it? I wasn't aware that asking people how a white man can help alleviate the plight of the American black is considered racist.

Strange. Me telling people what to do is white-splaining. And me asking what to do is racist.

Guess I'm out of options then - it's Bud Lite time! Good luck with the plight!
Huh? Who said asking how a white man can help alleviate the plight of American blacks is racist? You asked how you can help. You can help by not being a racist. If you are not a racist, you are helping. Why would you ask a question and then take offense when it is answered honestly?

I'm beginning to think you may have ulterior motives with this line of questioning.
  #81  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:56 PM
Kimstu Kimstu is offline
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Hey, whaddayamean "We"?
We, the white people descended from, and as a group substantially benefiting from the racial hierarchy imposed by, the white people who established and maintained the oppressive acts of slavery/Jim Crow/segregation/white nationalism in the first place.

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Originally Posted by B-Rad
If you want to admit culpability for any oppression then get on down, but leave me out of it.
Very convenient: you'll accept the residual social advantages of white racial privilege while denying that you bear any responsibility for making society more equitable.

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Originally Posted by B-Rad
Alternatively, you can point me to the place where my middle-class white opinion counts for anything in making adjustments to the political & judicial structures in my community (there ain't any such place, that was rhetorical).
More performed helplessness, also very convenient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Rad
The people who need to pull their heads out of their asses are the ones who think real societal power is based on any color other than green.
Nobody's claiming that wealth and class don't involve societal power, often to an extent that overwhelms other advantages in practice. But that doesn't mean that the societal power of race is nonexistent.
  #82  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:56 PM
Living Well Is Best Revenge Living Well Is Best Revenge is offline
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manson1972, the problem I believe is that people don't think you genuinely care or want to help. The tone of your posts has turned me off numerous times, as well as other people I assume. I'd like to think it's a communication problem, because you don't seem to be a bad guy.

Last edited by Living Well Is Best Revenge; 03-07-2018 at 02:57 PM.
  #83  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:57 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is online now
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Huh? Who said asking how a white man can help alleviate the plight of American blacks is racist? You asked how you can help. You can help by not being a racist. If you are not a racist, you are helping. Why would you ask a question and then take offense when it is answered honestly?

I'm beginning to think you may have ulterior motives with this line of questioning.
Well great, all I have to do is not be racist? Well gee, my work is done then. It really IS Bud Lite time.
  #84  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:58 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is online now
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I wasn't aware that asking people how a white man can help alleviate the plight of the American black is considered racist.
When you do it by claiming to sincerely want to help them become more white, then guess what, pal?
  #85  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:58 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is online now
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Originally Posted by Living Well Is Best Revenge View Post
manson1972, the problem I believe is that people don't think you genuinely care or want to help. The tone of your posts has turned me off numerous times, as well as other people I assume. I'd like to think it's a communication problem, because you don't seem to be a bad guy.
I'm not seeing any negative tone in this:

"I would love to do that. Any suggestions on how to go about doing that?"

Perhaps you'd like to point it out?
  #86  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:59 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is online now
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When you do it by claiming to sincerely want to help them become more white, then guess what, pal?
Who wants to do that?
  #87  
Old 03-07-2018, 02:59 PM
Snarky_Kong Snarky_Kong is offline
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Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerDC View Post
Until the stereo typical image of the American black has been squashed things will never be fair.
He then goes on to stereotype African Americans for the entire post. Nice.
  #88  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:02 PM
Living Well Is Best Revenge Living Well Is Best Revenge is offline
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I'm not seeing any negative tone in this:

"I would love to do that. Any suggestions on how to go about doing that?"

Perhaps you'd like to point it out?
There is a just a feeling of disingenuousness to a lot of your posts. Does anyone know what I am talking about?
  #89  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:02 PM
Morgenstern Morgenstern is offline
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Wow, you really told me!

....
Someone would have sooner or later, so the roll eyes is unnecessary. Just saying.
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  #90  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:04 PM
Morgenstern Morgenstern is offline
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Sorry Biggirl, to participate in this slight hijack of your thread, but you can't let a fly escape swatting.
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  #91  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:04 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is online now
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Only assholes say "just saying." Just saying.
  #92  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:08 PM
Biggirl Biggirl is online now
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When you do it by claiming to sincerely want to help them become more white, then guess what, pal?
Yeup. Enjoy your shitty beer!
  #93  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:09 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is online now
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There is a just a feeling of disingenuousness to a lot of your posts. Does anyone know what I am talking about?
None that I've noticed.
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  #94  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:09 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is online now
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Yeup. Enjoy your shitty beer!
Thanks, I will!

Also, turns out there is a ToolKit for White People right on the BLM website. Some of you BLM activists might have mentioned that in the first place!
  #95  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:11 PM
Crazy Canuck Crazy Canuck is offline
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... the sad truth is fair or not fair that the burden will always be on the one suffering to pull him or her self out of this mess.
That is both a lie and an excuse to not care about the one suffering. If it's the other persons' burden to pull himself out of the mess, and they doesn't pull themselves out of it, than you don't have to feel guilty about their suffering. I told myself the same thing when I felt guilty about all bad things I did to people who owed money for cocaine debts. After all, they got themselves into that mess, and they didn't get themselves out, so I convinced myself that the horrible things I did to them where their fault, not mine.

It took me a long time to realize how wrong I was back then. I hope you do better.
  #96  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:13 PM
Biggirl Biggirl is online now
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Thanks, I will!

Also, turns out there is a ToolKit for White People right on the BLM website. Some of you BLM activists might have mentioned that in the first place!
Probably wasn't mentioned because this is not a thread about how to make manson1972 not a racist but on how HoneyBadger is a racist. But you go on now. You've got the tools.
  #97  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:17 PM
Inigo Montoya Inigo Montoya is online now
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Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
We, the white people descended from, and as a group substantially benefiting from the racial hierarchy imposed by, the white people who established and maintained the oppressive acts of slavery/Jim Crow/segregation/white nationalism in the first place.
No need to condescend, I am VERY aware of what my ancestors perpetrated, and what even my parents championed. Holding the young accountable for the transgressions of their elders is stone age and unjust. Injustice alienates. Stop it.
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Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
Very convenient: you'll accept the residual social advantages of white racial privilege while denying that you bear any responsibility for making society more equitable.
So by this logic I should go out and find a Black family whom I deem to be less fortunate than myself and surrender my possessions, my career, ALL my copious social influence, my ill-gotten gains? I didn't get what I have by knowing The Secret White Handshake developed by my ancestors. I got it despite being a complete and total buffoon in my youth, doing a little introspection and self-correction, and significantly changing how I relate to the world in order to get what I need.
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Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
More performed helplessness, also very convenient.
This phrase is performed, divisive, and useless. Further, it is simply untrue and suggestive of a nonexistent hivemind in which everyone knows what you know, and experiences what you experience. I can't decide if that makes you delusional or just immature. Maybe there's a third meaning for which I am sure you will gleefully excoriate my not knowing.
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Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
Nobody's claiming that wealth and class don't involve societal power, often to an extent that overwhelms other advantages in practice. But that doesn't mean that the societal power of race is nonexistent.
I never said the societal power of one's race is nonexistent, I'm just saying to the extent I feel I have any of it, I don't use it and I find it deeply discouraging to have to face the accusation.
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Last edited by Inigo Montoya; 03-07-2018 at 03:21 PM.
  #98  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:18 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is online now
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Originally Posted by Biggirl View Post
Probably wasn't mentioned because this is not a thread about how to make manson1972 not a racist but on how HoneyBadger is a racist. But you go on now. You've got the tools.
Meh. Threads of "So and so is a racist" where the typical people show up to agree are boring. But you can have fun with that if you want.
  #99  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:19 PM
wonky wonky is online now
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Meh. Threads of "So and so is a racist" where the typical people show up to agree are boring. But you can have fun with that if you want.
He's just trying to save you from boredom, Biggirl! DO YOU HAVE NO APPRECIATION OF HIS GIFT TO YOU?
  #100  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:29 PM
Morgenstern Morgenstern is offline
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Meh. Threads of "So and so is a racist" where the typical people show up to agree are boring. But you can have fun with that if you want.
Seriously, you'd be far better off just sitting here with your ears open and your mouth shut. Just saying.
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