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  #101  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:31 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Meh. Threads of "So and so is a racist" where the typical people show up to agree are boring. But you can have fun with that if you want.
So you're playing devil's advocate for HBDC to break the monotony?
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  #102  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:34 PM
Inigo Montoya Inigo Montoya is offline
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So you're playing devil's advocate for HBDC to break the monotony?
Hey, it's good to climb into someone else's skin from time to time and try to get a little perspective. Sort of a Black Like Me thing.
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  #103  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:36 PM
Kimstu Kimstu is offline
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
As you and others may or may not be aware, there are literally thousands of choices for what one can do to improve certain aspects of life for certain people. Probably 10s of thousands. Picking a few things out of that long list is quite onerous, especially when one actually wants to select things that will actually DO something.
"Onerous". Sure, that's the real burden we should all be concerned about here.

If you can't be arsed to try to figure out and implement some way to usefully contribute to societal movements against systemic racism, okay fine, nobody's going to make you. But enough with the plaintive fluttering about "well but nobody is explaining to me exactly what to do" or "well but it's a lot of work to sort through all the possible options" or "well but nobody's providing a metric to determine whether any of these options meet my exacting standards for political effectiveness".

That sort of faux-naive inertia is generally just an excuse for passive limpwimps to flounce out of a discussion exclaiming "Well I WOULD have wanted to help out with fighting racism, out of the GOODNESS of my HEART, if only I'd been SHOWN a really EFFECTIVE way to do so and if you all hadn't been so MEAN to me". Yeah, I'm sure you were very serious indeed about really wanting to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson1972
Maybe I'll just donate money to the ACLU and sit back and think "Weeeeee, I'm helping!"
Translation: "Instead of donating money to the ACLU or doing anything else that might possibly be of any practical assistance, I'll just sit back and think Weeeeeee, this social justice movement is inadequate by my high standards for participation so I'm off the hook as far as fighting racism goes!"
  #104  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:54 PM
Kimstu Kimstu is offline
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I am VERY aware of what my ancestors perpetrated, and what even my parents championed. Holding the young accountable for the transgressions of their elders is stone age and unjust.
Injustice is sad, isn't it? But there's no evading the fact that you are indeed a beneficiary, even if an unwilling beneficiary, of generations of racial oppression and discrimination. Nobody is saying you are responsible for causing that injustice. But you, along with all the rest of us, are responsible for fixing it.

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Originally Posted by B-Rad
So by this logic I should go out and find a Black family whom I deem to be less fortunate than myself and surrender my possessions, my career, ALL my copious social influence, my ill-gotten gains?
Well, if that's the only way you can think of to help make society more equitable, or if that's the way you decide is right for you, then I totally support you in making that sacrifice. Of course, nobody is saying that that's what you have to do, but I would certainly admire you if you chose to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Rad
I never said the societal power of one's race is nonexistent, I'm just saying to the extent I feel I have any of it, I don't use it
False. You may not be using it deliberately---we all hope and believe that we're not using it deliberately---but the thing about racial privilege is that it continues to benefit you even when you're not trying to benefit from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Rad
and I find it deeply discouraging to have to face the accusation.
Oh, I'm sorry, that must be very trying. Hey, I have an idea: maybe instead of the comparatively drastic step of immediately donating all your possessions and advantages to a black family, your social-justice sacrifice could instead be resolutely accepting and overcoming your deep discouragement at having to be regarded as a beneficiary of societal white privilege even though you didn't choose to benefit from it and aren't trying to benefit from it.

That sacrifice would be admirable too, in its own degree.
  #105  
Old 03-07-2018, 03:55 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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Translation: "Instead of donating money to the ACLU or doing anything else that might possibly be of any practical assistance, I'll just sit back and think Weeeeeee, this social justice movement is inadequate by my high standards for participation so I'm off the hook as far as fighting racism goes!"
This Bud's for you, ACLU!
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  #106  
Old 03-07-2018, 04:14 PM
you with the face you with the face is offline
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‘‘Tis not black people fucking up the country right now.

You’d think current events would start causing people to seriously reconsider longstanding assumptions about culture, race, and which demographic groups we really should be dissecting and critiquing.

It sure as hell not mine.
  #107  
Old 03-07-2018, 04:25 PM
SteveG1 SteveG1 is offline
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Well, there's that burden.
How did I just KNOW some wise guy would come up with this?

Well played
  #108  
Old 03-07-2018, 04:27 PM
SteveG1 SteveG1 is offline
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Originally Posted by you with the face View Post
‘‘Tis not black people fucking up the country right now.

You’d think current events would start causing people to seriously reconsider longstanding assumptions about culture, race, and which demographic groups we really should be dissecting and critiquing.

It sure as hell not mine.
Right now I would feel more threatened by, and more hostile toward whites - the far/extreme/alt right - the swastika guys and the guys with the hoods. And I'm white.
  #109  
Old 03-07-2018, 04:44 PM
Inigo Montoya Inigo Montoya is offline
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Injustice is sad, isn't it? But there's no evading the fact that you are indeed a beneficiary, even if an unwilling beneficiary, of generations of racial oppression and discrimination.
So sad. But given me (partial) Irish heritage I'm also an ancestral victim who has been able to set aside centuries of abuse at the hands of those pesky English, and considerable ill-will right here in the good old USofA into the 20th century. I would bring up the Jewish genes, but that might just derail the thread.
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Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
Well, if that's the only way you can think of to help make society more equitable, or if that's the way you decide is right for you, then I totally support you in making that sacrifice. Of course, nobody is saying that that's what you have to do, but I would certainly admire you if you chose to do it.
Long story, but I actually did offer my roof but it was politely declined. Was even in the process of kicking a White kid out (another stray) so we had the room.
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Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
Oh, I'm sorry, that must be very trying.
So trying. I'm just misunderstood.

I'm getting tired. It's been a long day and I'm getting ready to channel Fritz the Cat out of spite now. I don't see that as being very constructive. I'll consider the wisdom in this thread, including the implicit pitfalls of white dudes posting in racism threads, and reexamine my place in the larger puzzle. But still, watch it with the broad brush. And by 'broad' I mean 'wide' as opposed to 'derogatory word for woman'. Which doesn't mean I think you're broad, I just...yeah, Ima go now.
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  #110  
Old 03-07-2018, 05:26 PM
Omega Glory Omega Glory is offline
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Do you see how see how your ability to move past abuse that you didn't suffer and that has no effect on current society might not be relevant?
  #111  
Old 03-07-2018, 06:09 PM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is offline
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I am confused also, because I do not understand your hu-mon concept of "racism". Can you hu-mons explain it to me, a very confused visitor from another planet? Because I would not want to accidentally offend a hu-mon by acting "racist", a concept I have no experience of. So I would be very grateful if you would kindly educate me, since I just arrived on your planet five minutes ago, and my feelings would be very hurt if I accidentally gave offense.

Oh, I should probably warn you that my species also does not understand your strange Earth hu-mon concepts of "love", "humor", "itching", and "contractions".

Last edited by Lemur866; 03-07-2018 at 06:10 PM.
  #112  
Old 03-07-2018, 06:22 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Over the last 35 years? According to the vast majority of black people I've spoken to, there's been significant improvement.
Not according to the vast majority of the black people I've spoken to. And I speak to close to a dozen a day.

There, now we've got dueling anecdotes; mine cancels yours.

P.S. I endorse this pitting. The degree of institutional racism I see around me in the US is astounding, and depressing.

Last edited by Qadgop the Mercotan; 03-07-2018 at 06:23 PM.
  #113  
Old 03-07-2018, 06:32 PM
monstro monstro is offline
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I'm so confused. Why are racists so fixated on the bad blacks, when it is obvious to me that bad whites are the ones who are fucking this country up right now.

Get your own fucking house in order before you start talking about mine.
  #114  
Old 03-07-2018, 06:43 PM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is offline
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I know I'm not a racist because I never tried to come up with a pat ending to a sentence that begins "I know I'm not a racist because...."
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  #115  
Old 03-07-2018, 06:48 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Originally Posted by Morgenstern View Post
Seriously, you'd be far better off just sitting here with your ears open and your mouth shut. Just saying.
Aren't you the guy who thought California was going to secede? That's gold, Jerry. Gold!
  #116  
Old 03-07-2018, 06:53 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
Translation: "Instead of donating money to the ACLU or doing anything else that might possibly be of any practical assistance, I'll just sit back and think Weeeeeee, this social justice movement is inadequate by my high standards for participation so I'm off the hook as far as fighting racism goes!"
That's definitely one way of looking at it. Nice job!
  #117  
Old 03-07-2018, 07:35 PM
you with the face you with the face is offline
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I'm so confused. Why are racists so fixated on the bad blacks, when it is obvious to me that bad whites are the ones who are fucking this country up right now.
Maybe we need more Europeans to come over and show them how be more socially acceptable. You know, role models who can teach them how to put aside their white ways and assimilate into the mainstream. Then maybe we wouldn’t have a massive gun problem on our hands, shitheads like Trump in office, and a raging opioid epidemic. Among other issues.
  #118  
Old 03-07-2018, 07:37 PM
Morgenstern Morgenstern is offline
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moron1972, you really stepped on your little dicklet in this thread.
It's been enjoyable watching you fail, Pussums.
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  #119  
Old 03-07-2018, 08:04 PM
Green Bean Green Bean is offline
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I've always liked Biggirl. I doubt she's pitted anyone before. This one is richly deserved.
Of course she's pitted people. In fact, I thought I remembered her pitting me way back in 2000. Turns out I pitted her! This was back when the board allowed joke pittings, of course.

What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Nothing. I just thought Bigs might have a giggle at the memory.
  #120  
Old 03-07-2018, 08:26 PM
Biggirl Biggirl is offline
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Of course she's pitted people. In fact, I thought I remembered her pitting me way back in 2000. Turns out I pitted her! This was back when the board allowed joke pittings, of course.

What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Nothing. I just thought Bigs might have a giggle at the memory.
Gottdamn, we've overstayed our welcome!
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  #121  
Old 03-07-2018, 08:51 PM
madsircool madsircool is offline
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moron1972, you really stepped on your little dicklet in this thread.
It's been enjoyable watching you fail, Pussums.
The Pit ain't what it used to be.
  #122  
Old 03-07-2018, 09:28 PM
Green Bean Green Bean is offline
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Gottdamn, we've overstayed our welcome!
You've been here a lot longer than I have, dear.
  #123  
Old 03-07-2018, 09:42 PM
Helena330 Helena330 is offline
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Yep and meanwhile, while you are waiting for this to happen millions of lives continue to live far beneath their potential. I have no doubt your hearts in the right place but it isn't helping much. And as for stereo types. These stereo types don't persist without a reason. Recognizing statistics does not make one a racist. It gives us information about where we should be addressing problems.
How do you know that I'm doing nothing? And stereotypes are cognitive, frequently-inaccurate shortcuts. Next?
  #124  
Old 03-07-2018, 10:10 PM
andros andros is offline
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Originally Posted by Green Bean View Post
Of course she's pitted people. In fact, I thought I remembered her pitting me way back in 2000. Turns out I pitted her! This was back when the board allowed joke pittings, of course.

What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Nothing. I just thought Bigs might have a giggle at the memory.
Fuck's sake, I just got all misty looking at that thread. Jerks.
.
  #125  
Old 03-07-2018, 10:24 PM
raventhief raventhief is online now
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Wait, did the Pittee answer my questions? Here they are, again, in case he missed them:

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Originally Posted by raventhief View Post
Do you similarly gripe about white boys who harass girls, bully and shove people, use foul language and "generally act like thugs"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by raventhief View Post
And are those white boys drawing negative attention to their race?
As a white woman who's attended school in recent AND less recent years, I think my opinion matters in terms of what he thinks he's observed. Let me tell you- I've been harassed by white boys, and never, in my memory, " black thugs." Hell, all the students used foul language, so that's hardly a signifying factor.

Bullying? In HS, lo so many years ago, white boys more than black. In college? Didn't really see it at all.

So, original Pittee, please, convince us that your observations aren't pure confirmation bias. Do you just not SEE the white bad behaviour at all?
  #126  
Old 03-07-2018, 10:56 PM
Gatopescado Gatopescado is offline
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Bud Lite?
  #127  
Old 03-07-2018, 11:05 PM
Covfefe Covfefe is offline
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I have 2 black female acquaintances, both of whom are expecting their firstborn child within the next month. Both of them did get married for the first time within recent years. One of them is a stepmom since her husband had one child out of wedlock in a relationship that didn't work. And the other is married to a guy significantly older who has at minimum a bit of a "past." While there are exceptions which cut both ways, the reality is over 75% of black children in the states are born to unmarried parents and this has meaningful correlation in outcomes. You can try to find ways to rationalize the difference away; won't work, it's like saying the only reason black male students are disproportionately suspended and expelled is institutional racism.

I would definitely give my moral support to these 2 women even though their circumstances may not be ideal. I think it's commendable they waited and were in stable committed relationships before becoming mothers. I would not necessarily shame adults who choose to become parents in much different circumstances and I'll go so far to say I think systemized racism is a huge causal factor in why black families overall are more broken to this day. What I won't do is act like I don't think personal choices have nothing to do with inequality.
  #128  
Old 03-08-2018, 05:49 AM
kayaker kayaker is offline
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Bud Lite?
That's how the Milwaukee's Best drinkers show off.
  #129  
Old 03-08-2018, 07:55 AM
wonky wonky is offline
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Yesterday, I was on the train when a group of teen and tween boys, all black I think, got on. They were pretty loud and a little rambunctious. One or two sat near me, with others catercorner from me, kind of surrounding a middle aged white guy who had been sitting there when they got on.

So, the goofing off continues for a little while, then the MAWG stands up and starts yelling at the kids, that he pays for them to be in school and he pays for them to be on the metro and they ought to have and show RESPECT FOR HIM because of that. One of the kids said, "What the fuck you yelling at ME for? I didn't do anything to you." And that seemed to be true. I didn't witness everything, and yes, they were loud, but I sure didn't see anything threatening or disrespectful or anything but a group of kids being loud and goofing off.

I remember being that age, and holy hell were we loud. A bunch of white kids from the sticks, shouting and running and jostling and goofing off. And I know we got yelled at sometimes for being too loud and rowdy. But I don't remember anyone telling us that we should show them respect because they are paying for our school and our bus. We were expected to show respect when we visited monuments in DC, but this was a bunch of kids on their own time. And yes, I know that teens in a pack can be very disruptive, but those are teens of any race.

I'm guessing that guy probably got off that train feeling outraged and threatened because some loud black kids sat near him and lived their lives. And I'm guessing, having been a loud white kid, that he wouldn't have treated loud white kids the same way. He wouldn't have demanded humility before their kind benefactor.

I could be wrong. He could yell at teens and clouds all the time. And maybe he is someone who was never loud as a teen. Maybe he had no friends. Maybe he spent his formative years in a monastery.

But that's not the way I'd bet. And I would guess that isn't the way those kids would bet, either.
  #130  
Old 03-08-2018, 07:59 AM
digs digs is offline
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Hey now... he's somebody's uncle. Imagine Thanksgiving without him.
Oh, so he's Drunk Uncle. That makes him easier to deal with, imagining him like the SNL character.

Here's a classic...
"The holiday season has Drunk Uncle (Bobby Moynihan) ranting about technology, the sexy green M&M lady and how he's getting his lesbian niece a boyfriend for Christmas." (written by Seth Myers, I believe)

ETA: Another one, with Peter "Drunklage"... talking taxes.

Last edited by digs; 03-08-2018 at 08:03 AM.
  #131  
Old 03-08-2018, 08:08 AM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
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Originally Posted by wonky View Post
Yesterday, I was on the train when a group of teen and tween boys, all black I think, got on. They were pretty loud and a little rambunctious. One or two sat near me, with others catercorner from me, kind of surrounding a middle aged white guy who had been sitting there when they got on.

So, the goofing off continues for a little while, then the MAWG stands up and starts yelling at the kids, that he pays for them to be in school and he pays for them to be on the metro and they ought to have and show RESPECT FOR HIM because of that. One of the kids said, "What the fuck you yelling at ME for? I didn't do anything to you." And that seemed to be true. I didn't witness everything, and yes, they were loud, but I sure didn't see anything threatening or disrespectful or anything but a group of kids being loud and goofing off.

I remember being that age, and holy hell were we loud. A bunch of white kids from the sticks, shouting and running and jostling and goofing off. And I know we got yelled at sometimes for being too loud and rowdy. But I don't remember anyone telling us that we should show them respect because they are paying for our school and our bus. We were expected to show respect when we visited monuments in DC, but this was a bunch of kids on their own time. And yes, I know that teens in a pack can be very disruptive, but those are teens of any race.

I'm guessing that guy probably got off that train feeling outraged and threatened because some loud black kids sat near him and lived their lives. And I'm guessing, having been a loud white kid, that he wouldn't have treated loud white kids the same way. He wouldn't have demanded humility before their kind benefactor.

I could be wrong. He could yell at teens and clouds all the time. And maybe he is someone who was never loud as a teen. Maybe he had no friends. Maybe he spent his formative years in a monastery.

But that's not the way I'd bet. And I would guess that isn't the way those kids would bet, either.
As a daily DC Metro rider, I've seen similar events many times. Teens act like teens, no matter their background or race. For some reason, black teens acting like teens triggers unreasonable fear in many white people. I don't think the reason is particularly mysterious -- these folks have been conditioned by society and culture to be fearful of black teenagers, and thus otherwise mundane behavior can spark fear in these people when performed by black teens.

I imagine that virtually none of these folks would see themselves as having any racist impulses or beliefs, and they'd probably swear that black teens really act differently. Which reminds of me of the target of the thread.
  #132  
Old 03-08-2018, 09:26 AM
andros andros is offline
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Originally Posted by Covfefe View Post
I have 2 black female acquaintances, both of whom are expecting their firstborn child within the next month. Both of them did get married for the first time within recent years. One of them is a stepmom since her husband had one child out of wedlock in a relationship that didn't work. And the other is married to a guy significantly older who has at minimum a bit of a "past." While there are exceptions which cut both ways, the reality is over 75% of black children in the states are born to unmarried parents and this has meaningful correlation in outcomes. You can try to find ways to rationalize the difference away; won't work, it's like saying the only reason black male students are disproportionately suspended and expelled is institutional racism.

I would definitely give my moral support to these 2 women even though their circumstances may not be ideal. I think it's commendable they waited and were in stable committed relationships before becoming mothers. I would not necessarily shame adults who choose to become parents in much different circumstances and I'll go so far to say I think systemized racism is a huge causal factor in why black families overall are more broken to this day. What I won't do is act like I don't think personal choices have nothing to do with inequality.
The only reason black male students are disproportionately suspended and expelled is institutional racism.

You say you're acknowledging the role systemic and historic racism (and generational poverty?) plays in peoples' lives, but then continue with the old "personal responsibility" thing as though individual choices are made in a vacuum without context. Or rather, without your own preferred context.
.

Last edited by andros; 03-08-2018 at 09:27 AM.
  #133  
Old 03-08-2018, 09:58 AM
Covfefe Covfefe is offline
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I believe it's a combination of the two. My statement was simply intended to say I don't think 100% of the discrepancy in disciplinary situations is unrelated to poor choices, arguably including defective cultural norms. I don't think 100% of the discrepancy in unwise reproduction decisions can be chalked up to racism, past and present; there are tools, not least of which, is often birth control.

One area I'd mostly differ with HoneyBadger is some of the cultural norms like usage of proper English. I wouldn't necessarily feel bothered if I knew my acquaintances raised their children in a household where speaking proper English wasn't the norm, as long avoiding it's not taken to the extreme.
  #134  
Old 03-08-2018, 10:28 AM
Kimstu Kimstu is offline
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Originally Posted by wonky View Post
I remember being that age, and holy hell were we loud. A bunch of white kids from the sticks, shouting and running and jostling and goofing off. And I know we got yelled at sometimes for being too loud and rowdy. But I don't remember anyone telling us that we should show them respect because they are paying for our school and our bus.
Same here. A bunch of us commuter students rode the local bus to high school in the city and sat in the back and gabbled and laughed, and not infrequently loudly sang John Denver and Barry Manilow songs accompanied by one or two of the guys who played guitar. (Yes, I still know all the lyrics to "You Done Stomped on My Heart" and "Feelings".) I defy any complainers about the black teens of today to describe an instance of schoolkids being more disruptive on public transit than that.

Yet I don't remember any adult ever saying a single word to us about treating the public bus like our own living room and making noisy nuisances of ourselves.
  #135  
Old 03-08-2018, 10:47 AM
wonky wonky is offline
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I have 2 black female acquaintances, both of whom are expecting their firstborn child within the next month. Both of them did get married for the first time within recent years. One of them is a stepmom since her husband had one child out of wedlock in a relationship that didn't work. And the other is married to a guy significantly older who has at minimum a bit of a "past." While there are exceptions which cut both ways, the reality is over 75% of black children in the states are born to unmarried parents and this has meaningful correlation in outcomes.
Hmm. A woman I know married a guy with a child out of wedlock from a relationship that didn't work. Oh, and he had a bit of a "past" since his ex was a crazy person who is now in jail, so there were lots and lots of cops and trials and fun stuff like that.

The guy is my brother. He's pretty white. I sincerely doubt most people would be stringing these sentences together about the two of them, especially given that you start talking about unmarried parents in the context of two women who are married.

It's almost like there's something that makes you go there.

Last edited by wonky; 03-08-2018 at 10:47 AM.
  #136  
Old 03-08-2018, 11:56 AM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is offline
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I believe it's a combination of the two. My statement was simply intended to say I don't think 100% of the discrepancy in disciplinary situations is unrelated to poor choices, arguably including defective cultural norms. I don't think 100% of the discrepancy in unwise reproduction decisions can be chalked up to racism, past and present; there are tools, not least of which, is often birth control.

One area I'd mostly differ with HoneyBadger is some of the cultural norms like usage of proper English. I wouldn't necessarily feel bothered if I knew my acquaintances raised their children in a household where speaking proper English wasn't the norm, as long avoiding it's not taken to the extreme.
I agree with you on the proper English, I think that just comes with more exposure to diverse cultures, usually in school or college. In the past 10 years I have noticed a huge difference, improvement in proper English usage and less pronounced accents or whatever it is we call it. All these things help out a lot and they also help to diminish the effects of stereo typing.
  #137  
Old 03-08-2018, 11:59 AM
wonky wonky is offline
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I agree with you on the proper English, I think that just comes with more exposure to diverse cultures, usually in school or college. In the past 10 years I have noticed a huge difference, improvement in proper English usage and less pronounced accents or whatever it is we call it. All these things help out a lot and they also help to diminish the effects of stereo typing.
I love how you, an old white dude, are claiming other people are improved by exposure to diverse cultures as you rail against... diverse cultures.
  #138  
Old 03-08-2018, 12:07 PM
Crazy Canuck Crazy Canuck is offline
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I don't think 100% of the discrepancy in unwise reproduction decisions can be chalked up to racism, past and present; there are tools, not least of which, is often birth control.
Since birth control costs money, can you see the possibility that a group that doesn't have very much money (like groups that experience generational poverty due to racism) might have limited access to birth control?
  #139  
Old 03-08-2018, 12:37 PM
Wilson Wilson is offline
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Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerDC View Post
I agree with you on the proper English, I think that just comes with more exposure to diverse cultures, usually in school or college. In the past 10 years I have noticed a huge difference, improvement in proper English usage and less pronounced accents or whatever it is we call it. All these things help out a lot and they also help to diminish the effects of stereo typing.
(bolding mine)

The irony.... it burns....
  #140  
Old 03-08-2018, 12:56 PM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is offline
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(bolding mine)

The irony.... it burns....
I feely admit my English is not all that good, but it was good enough to carry me through my career choices. All I would expect from anyone is to do the best they can in any areas not just language.
  #141  
Old 03-08-2018, 01:00 PM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is offline
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I love how you, an old white dude, are claiming other people are improved by exposure to diverse cultures as you rail against... diverse cultures.
I never rally against any American of any nationality or religion to not be a part of the full American experience. I do rally against illegal immigration. Large parts of Los Angels have basically become a 3rd world country. I like my culture and I like aspects of all cultures. I don't like the thought of other cultures being forced on me through illegal immigration. Has no relation to racism.
  #142  
Old 03-08-2018, 01:23 PM
Penfeather Penfeather is online now
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I don't like the thought of other cultures being forced on me through illegal immigration. Has no relation to racism.
Any particular cultures in mind? Non-white ones, f'rinstance?
  #143  
Old 03-08-2018, 01:38 PM
Helena330 Helena330 is offline
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I have 2 black female acquaintances, both of whom are expecting their firstborn child within the next month. Both of them did get married for the first time within recent years. One of them is a stepmom since her husband had one child out of wedlock in a relationship that didn't work. And the other is married to a guy significantly older who has at minimum a bit of a "past." While there are exceptions which cut both ways, the reality is over 75% of black children in the states are born to unmarried parents and this has meaningful correlation in outcomes. You can try to find ways to rationalize the difference away; won't work, it's like saying the only reason black male students are disproportionately suspended and expelled is institutional racism.

I would definitely give my moral support to these 2 women even though their circumstances may not be ideal. I think it's commendable they waited and were in stable committed relationships before becoming mothers. I would not necessarily shame adults who choose to become parents in much different circumstances and I'll go so far to say I think systemized racism is a huge causal factor in why black families overall are more broken to this day. What I won't do is act like I don't think personal choices have nothing to do with inequality.
Well, aren't you noble? The personal choice of a lot of women is to not encumber themselves and their children with deadweight fathers. That's much better than making things worse for themselves and their families simply to have a man around.
  #144  
Old 03-08-2018, 01:43 PM
Morgenstern Morgenstern is offline
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Well, aren't you noble? The personal choice of a lot of women is to not encumber themselves and their children with deadweight fathers. That's much better than making things worse for themselves and their families simply to have a man around.
I agree, many women are finding cordless appliances more than an adequate substitute for a lazy male moocher.
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  #145  
Old 03-08-2018, 01:59 PM
Penfeather Penfeather is online now
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Large parts of Los Angels have basically become a 3rd world country. I like my culture and I like aspects of all cultures. I don't like the thought of other cultures being forced on me through illegal immigration. Has no relation to racism.
Yes, imagine a decent God-fearing American town like The Angels or Saint Francis being overwhelmed by hordes of immigrants looking to make a quick buck, and being forced to change its culture and even language. I mean, you do know that California was FUCKING MEXICAN before it was FUCKING ANNEXED by the United States, right?
  #146  
Old 03-08-2018, 02:20 PM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is offline
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Yes, imagine a decent God-fearing American town like The Angels or Saint Francis being overwhelmed by hordes of immigrants looking to make a quick buck, and being forced to change its culture and even language. I mean, you do know that California was FUCKING MEXICAN before it was FUCKING ANNEXED by the United States, right?
Yes and it was Native American before it was Mexican. Every land on the globe has been taken over by conquerors in most cases many times over. California is part of the United States now.
  #147  
Old 03-08-2018, 02:22 PM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is offline
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Any particular cultures in mind? Non-white ones, f'rinstance?
Mostly cultures that believe illegal dumping anywhere you can get away with it is fine.
  #148  
Old 03-08-2018, 02:31 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness Left Hand of Dorkness is offline
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So sad. But given me (partial) Irish heritage I'm also an ancestral victim who has been able to set aside centuries of abuse at the hands of those pesky English, and considerable ill-will right here in the good old USofA into the 20th century.
You know why the Irish had such ill-will in the 19th century? Because they were considered undesirable, non-white immigrants.

Same shit, different day. Whiteness is a toxic ideological brew. Those of us that swim in it need to recognize what we're swimming in and figure out how to get healthy.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 03-08-2018 at 02:31 PM.
  #149  
Old 03-08-2018, 02:39 PM
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You know why the Irish had such ill-will in the 19th century? Because they were considered undesirable, non-white immigrants.

Same shit, different day. Whiteness is a toxic ideological brew. Those of us that swim in it need to recognize what we're swimming in and figure out how to get healthy.
It's also a surprisingly recent concept: before the early 19th century the more common narrative was of the superiority of individual nations; if you were British, you wouldn't claim kinship with an Italian or a Spaniard as a member of an over-arching "white" race. Nell Painter's The History of White People is a hugely recommended read.
  #150  
Old 03-08-2018, 02:45 PM
Penfeather Penfeather is online now
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Mostly cultures that believe illegal dumping anywhere you can get away with it is fine.
Oh, you mean cultures that endorse dumping like this?

Quote:
They objected to the common thread of hazardous waste sites, that they were almost always built in communities of the poor and disenfranchised, disproportionately affecting people of color.

You know, you're allowed to look at your prejudices before you shoot your mouth off each time.
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