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  #51  
Old 01-23-2020, 10:16 PM
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ETA: wolfpup, what do you call "heavy use"? I can run my Kindle out in a day or two, but we're also talking 3-4 hours of continuous use.
I'm not familiar with the Oasis, but the ad claims "months" of battery life, though that probably presupposes wireless off (mine is always off anyway), probably a low-light setting, and only maybe an hour or so a night.

The battery on my Kindle Paperwhite (I forget the exact model, but it's probably second or third generation) has been getting weaker, but after years of use I can still get through a big book at 3-6 hours a night that might take me a week to read, and still have power left over. Fortunately, although Amazon doesn't encourage it, I have a third-party battery kit that should make it easy to replace the battery when it really starts deteriorating. For anyone doing this, make sure you order the right battery for your EXACT model of Kindle (which isn't always easy to find out, either) because very similar models of Kindle can use very similar batteries that are nevertheless incompatible. Even the Paperwhite series switched battery designs halfway through it evolution. They all look identical but the older ones have three connectors and the newer one have four.
  #52  
Old 01-24-2020, 01:49 AM
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To all those people who have posted that I still do not understand what a Kindle is about, I must admit you are right.

My only hope for some saving grace is that it seems to prove that seniors do have difficulty understanding new technology. I just hope the reason is not just that I'm stupid but that there are also some other reasons why this is often true.

Meanwhile, I thank those people for pointing out the true workings of a Kindle.
  #53  
Old 01-24-2020, 06:04 AM
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E-ink is fascinating! I highly recommend Technology Connection's video on it. It kinda but not really like an etch a sketch. The E-ink screen is black liquid with titanium dioxide (which is white) suspended in it. The charge any specific point on the screen gets determines whether the titanium dioxide ions move forward (point gets white because the TiO2 ions are on top of the black stuff) or move back (point goes black because the ions are underneath the black stuff).
Charged TiO2 particles; most of the individual titiania can't be ionized.
  #54  
Old 01-24-2020, 09:28 AM
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I despise reading for any great length of time on an LED screen, phone, computer or tablet. With the series of Kobos I've had over the years I can read for hours with no eyestrain and the lit screens are great for nighttime reading without disturbing my spouse who is a very light sleeper. I have an Aura H2O now but I'll likely get a Forma once it kicks the bucket. Being able to sideload epubs is the bonus feature that keeps me from buying a Kindle. The tech that's inside has advanced in a great many ways, it's just more subtle, as other have noted.
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  #55  
Old 01-24-2020, 09:39 AM
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Who says e-readers have not improved? The first Kindle had a slow, low resolution gray screen screen. It did not have a backlight. It was not remotely waterproof. Newer generations have higher contrast, higher resolution screens, paperwhite backgrounds and integral backlights. You can drop them in the tub and they still work.
Those newer feaetures have been in existence for a long while, though. The only changes I expect to e-readers would be incremental and mainly software changes.

Quote:
The original kindle had UI issues, and a form factor that included a full keyboard and arrow pads for navigation, which turned out to be a poor idea.
Why are arrow pads a poor idea? The very first e-reader I owned was a Kobo, but not the Forma, and did not have buttons. I would tap on the right side of the screen to page forward, and about a third of the time it would move backward one page. It really felt like the touchscreen-only model existed purely to be "cool". I'm currently using buttons. I never use the touchscreen to turn pages, only to select books or occasionally turn the light or wi-fi on or off.

I use Calibre and Adobe to organize and load books, so I have little need for a keyboard on an e-reader, but some people want to use the e-reader for that. If there's no keyboard, it needs a vibrating feedback function so people will know what they've actually typed.

(I have this problem at work. My password is long because the info is private. When I use the new scanner, I have to put in the password into a touchscreen on the scanner. I get the password wrong at least half the time, despite not actually forgetting the password.)
  #56  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:09 PM
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It’s been a long time since I looked at an e-reader. They have a role when space is limited and during travel. The early models did not seem that enjoyable to read. I’m sure they have improved and there is now a massive selection of material.

But some studies have showed people retain more from a physical book (like three times as much, not that I’ve read the actual studies). I much prefer actual books and often read non-fiction where retention is desirable. Some of the books I like are probably not available in e-format. Prices vary but are sometimes surprising.

None of this answers why the readers aren’t better, except the market may be limited by folks who feel likewise. Used books may be cheaper and more available now than any other time in history. People might pay $30-150 for an e-reader, and adding lights and features doesn’t seem that difficult. Better fonts, graphics, resolution and readability exist. But I suspect some are content to use their phones and not need another thing. Some have tablets which offer many of the same things. Many rarely read at all or not in volume. And some of the heavy readers like me prefer holding a volume to skimming a device.
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Last edited by Dr_Paprika; 01-24-2020 at 12:11 PM.
  #57  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:34 PM
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Wow, I really started something here.

Re: the comments about the Kind DX. It came out in 2009! They could do a big (perhaps too big) screen then but now???

And the links to those large epaper things are interesting but they highlight my key beef: these should be a lot cheaper. (Well, not the draw on ones, maybe.) Hundreds of Euros. Wow.

I just find the 6" format too small for my aging eyes. So a bit bigger but not really huge. I'm also a fast reader to I find it a pain to repeated tap to change page. So a bigger screen might also mean a slower pace on the taps.

I just want to say that I will not be addressing any issue regarding "Why would you want one of those?" or anything. That's a completely unrelated topic.

I was asking mainly about the economics of these vs. standard tech progress. It would be like if cell phones froze at the flip/feature phone level ... and cost a surprising amount at that.
  #58  
Old 01-24-2020, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
It would be like if cell phones froze at the flip/feature phone level ... and cost a surprising amount at that.
Your sentence can be used to answer your question:
There is huge global consumer demand for cell phones. That results in more competitors and more competition for those consumers. That results in innovation (faster, lighter, better screens etc) and cheaper prices.

There is little consumer demand for e-readers so there's few competitors and no incentive for them to innovate or reduce prices. (As you say, why people don't use e-readers is a different topic).

I like my iPhone 8 and think that generally Apple has an admirable history of innovation, but I'm under no illusion; if Apple had no competition, I'd be using a Gen 1 iPhone and paying $3,000 for it.

Welcome to capitalism!
  #59  
Old 01-25-2020, 06:26 AM
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It's like graphing calculators. The TI-84 is still $100. It was $100 thirty years ago. It hasn't changed much at all. It's a small market, the current product pretty much does everything the market wants, there isn't much competition. So they keep churning them out and selling them at the same price.

ETA: Technically, the TI-84 has only been out for twenty years. But it's not a huge leap in functionality from the TIs we used in the 90s, and they were around $100 too.

Last edited by Manda JO; 01-25-2020 at 06:29 AM.
  #60  
Old 01-25-2020, 07:21 AM
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I think there is another important factor: the E Ink Corporation owns the patent for the e-Ink displays, and effectively has a monopoly on this type of display.

Last edited by scr4; 01-25-2020 at 07:22 AM.
  #61  
Old 01-25-2020, 07:50 AM
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I think there is another important factor: the E Ink Corporation owns the patent for the e-Ink displays, and effectively has a monopoly on this type of display.
Here are three more manufacturers.

A good compilation of news articles on the tech.

This is interesting--see how bigly the price jumps as display size increases? 2 or 3 inch display? Around 5 to 10 bucks. 8 inch display? Around 80 to 100. 13.3 inch? 350.
  #62  
Old 01-25-2020, 08:26 AM
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The biggest e-book manufacturers in the US (Amazon, Kobo, Barnes & Noble) all sell e-books as well. The e-books sell for less than a physical book, and they're probably trying to recoup their costs by selling e-readers at a high price.

All require you to set up an account with the manufacturer to use the device. All try to get you to buy only from them as well. Without sideloading through Adobe or Calibre, I don't know how I could read an e-book from another website and put that on an Amazon Kindle, Kobo, or B&N Nook device.
  #63  
Old 01-25-2020, 08:37 AM
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Pervasive Displays manufactures displays under a partnership with E Ink. As far as I know, the other two are still not used on any commercially available consumer devices.
  #64  
Old 01-25-2020, 08:40 AM
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This is interesting--see how bigly the price jumps as display size increases? 2 or 3 inch display? Around 5 to 10 bucks. 8 inch display? Around 80 to 100. 13.3 inch? 350.
My takeaway from that data is that these displays are ~$2 per square inch regardless of size.
  #65  
Old 01-25-2020, 09:13 AM
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...
All require you to set up an account with the manufacturer to use the device. ...
I don’t know about Kindle but I have had a Nook and now use a Kobo and have never set up an account on either – you can, but you don’t have to.
  #66  
Old 01-25-2020, 11:05 AM
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The biggest e-book manufacturers in the US (Amazon, Kobo, Barnes & Noble) all sell e-books as well. The e-books sell for less than a physical book, and they're probably trying to recoup their costs by selling e-readers at a high price.

All require you to set up an account with the manufacturer to use the device. All try to get you to buy only from them as well. Without sideloading through Adobe or Calibre, I don't know how I could read an e-book from another website and put that on an Amazon Kindle, Kobo, or B&N Nook device.
Actually, the opposite price-wise often happens in the media devices world. They sell a lot of their low end products for below cost. The famous Amazon 7" Fire tablet is list price $50. It routinely sells for $40 and on special days even less. At the low range Amazon is losing money on these. It's like the old razor-and-blade model. Sell the device cheap and hope to make it back on selling content.

As for registering. In the last few days I "registered" two Nooks (Simple Touch and Color) that I got in an auction lot of tablets. Used fake name and email address. I have not once downloaded anything from Barnes & Noble on my old Simple Touch or Color HD. (In fact both of those were rooted and had Cyanogenmod OS installed on them.) Mrs. FtG's Kindle has never been used to get books from Amazon. All library and such. That's right, we borrow books from the library to read on a Kindle. It's easy to do but for the clueless folks our library has a guide on how to do this on the leading brands.

This is not magic.

(BTW, you can install the Kindle Reader app on Nooks if you are so inclined.)

There is no lock in. I repeat. No lock in.

As to "few sales". Come on. Yeah, not as many as smart phones but still in far enough numbers that prices should decline more while capabilities go up.

The TI calculator thing is an effective monopoly. Schools have standardized on it, students have to use it, TI charges what it can get away with.

While Amazon has the lion's share of the E-reader market, it's not so absolutely dominant.
  #67  
Old 01-26-2020, 11:54 AM
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The answer is simple economics. What drives prices down over time? Competition. For the majority of eReader purchases today, there is no meaningful competition.

Most people in the market for a dedicated eReader already own a library of ebooks tied to one platform or another, either from their precious eReader or from phone/tablet apps. Switching to a competitor means losing that library. Say my Kindle dies and I see that the Kobo costs $50 less than the feature equivalent Kindle. That's irrelevant, because I'd lose access to my $500 worth of ebooks. No competition means no drive to improve.

Now, there are ways to strip the DRM from ebooks and transfer them to another eReader. I've done this, and probably won't buy another Kindle, but I can't imagine there are a lot of us in that little chunk of the Venn diagram where technical aptitude, philosophical opposition to DRM, philosophical opposition to copyright infringement/piracy, and willingness to be inconvenienced overlap.
  #68  
Old 01-26-2020, 12:03 PM
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And no, you can't install the Kindle app on a Nook eReader. You can install the Kindle app on a Nook branded tablet, because it's an android tablet with more ebook oriented marketing.
  #69  
Old 01-27-2020, 12:17 PM
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My Nook Simple Touch E-reader is an Android tablet. Runs 2.2 or some such. (Yeah, it's that old.)

From here regarding B&N's newest E-reader:

"Barnes and Noble is using Google Android for the OS and this is the way it has been since the very first Nook."

B&N used to have it's own app store but gave that up since people were just installing stuff from Google anyway. And the Kindle reader app was and still is available on the Google store.

(The amount of misinformation that keeps getting posted here about these devices is amazing.)

Yeah, there are other things that sell in larger quantity, but that doesn't mean a lot. Clearly these things sell in significant numbers that costs should have come down (and features gone up). It just seems to be a "this is what the consumers accept" thing.

Anyway, I've ordered a "refurbished" Kindle Oasis 8th Gen from a person online who apparently sells a lot of these. I'm not too concerned about the age of it as you can tell by my current E-reader being quite old. I usually keep these things going.

We'll see.

Last edited by ftg; 01-27-2020 at 12:18 PM.
  #70  
Old 01-27-2020, 01:11 PM
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Ok, I'll confess I don't have a Nook. I'm only going by what I've read online. Are you saying that I can buy an e-ink Nook and just start installing Play store apps? No hacking, rooting, modding or sideloading? And the Kindle app will be properly optimized for e-ink, not give the tablet UI that's expecting a quick, responsive LCD?

If so, I may be in the market for a new eReader after all...
  #71  
Old 01-27-2020, 04:18 PM
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The Nook Simple Touch E-reader is an Android device but it is not a tablet. You can not install apps on it. You can install the Kindle reader app on a tablet.
  #72  
Old 01-27-2020, 09:55 PM
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Yeah, there are other things that sell in larger quantity, but that doesn't mean a lot..
Wrong - That means everything. Please read my previous post. That is basic capitalist economics.

Quote:
Clearly these things sell in significant numbers that costs should have come down (and features gone up)
No, they clearly don't. What may seem like "significant" to you is obviously not significant to the tech companies that manufacture (or could manufacture) these products. If it were, they would offer new innovative features and the price would come down. That is basic capitalist ecomonics.

You asked for the economic reason previously, That's it, plain and simple. You don't seem to want accept that.
  #73  
Old 01-28-2020, 02:12 AM
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The Nook Simple Touch E-reader is an Android device but it is not a tablet. You can not install apps on it.
Not so, Daddyo.
  #74  
Old 01-28-2020, 03:26 AM
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It's like graphing calculators. The TI-84 is still $100. It was $100 thirty years ago. It hasn't changed much at all. It's a small market, the current product pretty much does everything the market wants, there isn't much competition. So they keep churning them out and selling them at the same price.

ETA: Technically, the TI-84 has only been out for twenty years. But it's not a huge leap in functionality from the TIs we used in the 90s, and they were around $100 too.
While they do have lower demand, the bigger reason for TI's lack of innovation is their successful vendor lock in with their target market: schools. They aren't just used in classrooms like other calculators. The textbooks are built around TI calculators. Teachers were trained on TI calculators. Standardized testing only allows TI calculators (or basic calculators). Competitors have tried and failed to innovate in that space--I remember a cheap HP graphing calculator I got but couldn't use well in school back in the early 2000s. TI has only recently added color (with the TI-84 Plus CE), and I think that was just to get schools to have a reason to buy new instead of continuing to use their old stock. And I could have chosen a color calculator back when I got my HP!

Amazon also has a lock-in of sorts, but in a different way. They have a lock-in on the standard e-book format. In particular, they control the DRM. If they don't want you to have the ability to handle Kindle format books, they can lock you out. Sure, they'll let people read books on their PC, Android, or Apple device, but they don't have any reason to allow a competing e-reader to use it.

Now, sure, both Google and Apple have their own book stores with their own format of books. But they never got into the e-reader space. They added e-books on top of their existing businesses. Amazon, on the other hand, started as a book-selling company, and got in on e-readers when they were new. They had the built-in audience for it--people who might like a single-purpose device for reading books.

And, unlike calculators, e-readers don't just use parts used in everything else. The big difference is that e-ink screen. So it makes sense that a company that doesn't already use them doesn't want to bother, given the low demand.

The devices linked all seem to be even more niche than e-readers, and thus can get away with higher prices. I could see Amazon not seeing those as competing with Kindle, and allowing them to open the Kindle format. I also know of a few devices that run Android with an e-ink screen, which gives them access to the Kindle Android app. But none really compete with the Kindle itself at its level--they're always more expensive.
  #75  
Old 01-28-2020, 08:43 AM
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Amazon also has a lock-in of sorts, but in a different way. They have a lock-in on the standard e-book format.
Actually, they ignore the standard e-book format.
  #76  
Old 01-28-2020, 01:18 PM
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Not sure Amazon can lock people out... You can download Calibre which not only converts between (unlocked) ebook formats, but also functions as a reader for a number of formats. You can find a number of books available in non-DRM format. I have studiously avoided paying for books that don't give me complete control over what I've bought. (Another use for Calibre is to convert PDF books to mobi or other ebook formats.)
  #77  
Old 01-28-2020, 04:01 PM
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Ok, I'll confess I don't have a Nook. I'm only going by what I've read online. Are you saying that I can buy an e-ink Nook and just start installing Play store apps? No hacking, rooting, modding or sideloading? And the Kindle app will be properly optimized for e-ink, not give the tablet UI that's expecting a quick, responsive LCD?

If so, I may be in the market for a new eReader after all...
Apps on an E-ink device (regardless of brand) are a mixed bag. That they are black and white and slow handicaps things quite a bit.

Examples:

I like to install Open Sudoku on my tablets. On a Nook Simple Touch the "coloring" is shades of gray which makes it hard to distinguish given cells from filled in ones, for example. But it is playable.

I have tried out Opera mini on my Simple Touch. It works on some sites, for example the SDMB. But is really, really slow.

If the app is B&W oriented, doesn't demand a lot of resources, etc. and runs on the tablet's version of Android, it just might work.

Like I said, newer versions of Nooks are setup to connect to Google Play Store out of the box. So that works just like any other tablet.

And yes, that really, really, really means you can install other reading software on a Nook. JUST LIKE ANY OTHER TABLET. (Come one folks, this is the Dope here. STOP repeating blatantly false information. Got that, Turble?)

For example, I have FBReader installed on my Simple Touch. And that's an ooooold device. Which means that a lot of junk being posted here has been provably false for about 10 years.
  #78  
Old 01-29-2020, 07:43 AM
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Can you provide any evidence for the claim that new Nook eReaders support the Play store out of the box? Because I can't find anything to corroborate that, and it just doesn't make sense to include an app store where most of the apps will be somewhere between non-optimized and unusable, and will directly reduce the device's profitability by making it easy to buy books from other stores.

Again, I mean e-ink devices, *not* tablets - yes, nook tablets support the Play store. It would really help cut down on confusion here if you stopped conflating the two.

The Nook Glowlight, with its B&W e-ink display, is an eReader. I still don't believe it supports the Play store without tomfoolery.

The Nook HD, with its colour LCD display, is a tablet. I stipulate that it supports the Play store.
  #79  
Old 01-30-2020, 02:31 AM
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...
One of the restrictions is access to books. Kindle, for example, locked me into their store. I could send other .MOBI files to my library, but it was on their store. ...
There is a trend (from some publishers anyway) to sell ebooks without DRM. Then you import it into Calibre and convert it to whatever format (MOBI, EPUB etc.). Calibre also does a nice job of managing your library and sideloading the books onto your device.

For books with DRM, well, do some googling. 'nuff said.

Me, I strongly prefer my Paperwhite to my phone for reading. It's about the size of a hardback book. Yes, it doesn't fit in my pocket the same way the phone does, but neither would a regular book - and i've literally got thousands of books on hand at any time.

I misplaced it about 2 months ago - no clue WHERE it's gotten to, though I know it's in the house - and I miss it every day. The phone works - but it is not as good.
  #80  
Old 01-30-2020, 06:28 AM
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My Nook Simple Touch E-reader is an Android tablet. Runs 2.2 or some such. (Yeah, it's that old.)

From here regarding B&N's newest E-reader:

"Barnes and Noble is using Google Android for the OS and this is the way it has been since the very first Nook."

B&N used to have it's own app store but gave that up since people were just installing stuff from Google anyway.
Yes it's true that the Nook e-reader software is based on Android.

And if you use one of several rooting kits available, you can hack the device to make it run a standard version of Android.

I can't find any confirmation that later Nook e-Ink devices have standard Android, or have access to the Google Play Store, straight out of the box.
  #81  
Old 01-31-2020, 12:17 PM
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Yes it's true that the Nook e-reader software is based on Android.

And if you use one of several rooting kits available, you can hack the device to make it run a standard version of Android.

I can't find any confirmation that later Nook e-Ink devices have standard Android, or have access to the Google Play Store, straight out of the box.
Other than the links that I've previously provided, including a quote from one of them?????

Re: Google Play store. From Wikipedia: "On March 15, 2016, Barnes & Noble announced it would close the Nook App Store and Nook Video, probably because Google's Play Store, which runs on Barnes & Noble devices, has been far more successful."

Here's a sample thread from XDA-Devs (you know, the site that goes deep into Android stuff) on deep things with the latest Nook E-Ink E-Reader the Glowlight Plus. You will note (once people got their hands on one) various Android tweaks and rooting they did to it. In particular, the wonderful Renate NST there is making a lot of comments. One of the top Android on Nooks people out there. (She, for example, showed how to add a sound dongle to the NST which she uses for her music stuff.)

Now for the really insulting stuff:

tastysandwiches: "Again, I mean e-ink devices, *not* tablets - yes, nook tablets support the Play store. It would really help cut down on confusion here if you stopped conflating the two."

I own an NST and an HD+ (E-ink and LCD, resp.) for years. Rooted both and installed Cyanogenmod on them.

And I'm confused????

You've got people here insisting all sorts of trivially false crap and you decide to make this up????

It is astonishing the nonsense these E-readers bring in.

Folks: Unless you have the personal experience with something maybe it's a bad idea to post some false rumor you picked up somewhere.
  #82  
Old 02-01-2020, 12:49 AM
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Sorry, I did t mean to imply you were confused, only that you might be inadvertently confusing others with less understanding of the differences between the types of devices. I don't want some poor low-tech sap to read this thread, decide to go out and buy a Nook to read their Kindle books, and fail to understand that the HD allows doing so with no fuss, but the Glowlight requires a whole bunch of techie mumbo jumbo and a voided warranty.

Though to be honest, you've got me thinking about buying and rooting a Nook... Would you mind my asking a couple more questions, as you're the one with experience?

If I have a Glowlight that's been modified to run the Play store, can it still be used as a regular Glowlight? That is, can I use the Kindle app to read my Kindle books and then switch back to the normal GlowLight UI, the one designed for e-ink, to read my Nook and DRM free books? Or do you have to lose the original interface to use it as a tablet?

How is the experience of running the Kindle app on your Nook Simple Touch?

Thanks!
  #83  
Old 02-01-2020, 01:46 PM
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Other than the links that I've previously provided, including a quote from one of them?????

Re: Google Play store. From Wikipedia: "On March 15, 2016, Barnes & Noble announced it would close the Nook App Store and Nook Video, probably because Google's Play Store, which runs on Barnes & Noble devices, has been far more successful."
I took that to mean the Nook LCD tablets now run Google Play Store, while their e-Ink devices just run their e-book reader software.

I'm still confused as to why the Nook Glowlight Plus product info page, for example, does not mention Android or the Google Play Store at all, if it comes with the Play Store app installed and has access to all Android apps without any modification or rooting.

As for the XDA-Devs thread, I don't have time to go through a 14-page thread, can you point to a specific post that says the device does NOT need to be rooted to access the Google Play Store?

Last edited by scr4; 02-01-2020 at 01:50 PM.
  #84  
Old 02-01-2020, 03:14 PM
Sam Stone is offline
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The market is full of electronic devices that do not undergo constant revision and updating like cell phones and computers do. My Panasonic cordless phone is at least 10 years old, but they still sell virtually the same model. My Sennheiser headphones are at least 15 years old, but the same model is still being sold.

Sometimes products get to a point where they are mature, do everything people need, or are so close to it that no one can identify significant improvements that are worth the expense of R&D. Calculators have been mentioned. Digital watches were like that for a long time until the smart watch came along. Cessna 172's have not changed much for 50 years.

E-readers have nearly perfect screens for reading. They have plenty of battery life. They have more memory than most people need. The places where they have improved are on the margins: waterproofing, better front lighting, etc. Maybe someone will come up with an idea for a killer feature and the whole market will shift. If not, we might be using essentially the same tech for reading books 20 years from now.
  #85  
Old 02-01-2020, 03:21 PM
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Honestly, there are other products, like smartphones, where the companies seem to be trying really hard to justify introducing new models each year. Is there really that much of a difference between an iPhone X and an iPhone 11?
  #86  
Old 02-01-2020, 08:58 PM
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Sam Stone
Quote:
My Panasonic cordless phone is at least 10 years old, but they still sell virtually the same model. My Sennheiser headphones are at least 15 years old, but the same model is still being sold.
Sorry, your point is not valid. Cherry picking individual products from a full product line-up doesn't doesn't work. Both companies may have left basic models the same where there is enough consumer demand to justify the SKU, but they have also introduced many new models with new features like caller announcement, noise suppression, call blocking on phones and things like blue tooth on headphones etc.

Additionally, prices (certainly for phones) have come down. I was looking at a Panasonic phone at Costco last year and I was blown away by the features, the number of handsets and how low the price compared to the last time I bought 10 years ago.

The point is that when you have a robust consumer market, companies invest in R&D adding features and reduce prices to compete. When you don't, you get e-readers.

I confess, I know nothing about e-readers other than everyone I've know that had them 10 years ago has stopped using them. I do however, know about economics, I teach it at a university. This is classic capitalist economics, especially in a stagnant-growth oligopoly. This is literally an Economics 101 topic in my class.
  #87  
Old 02-01-2020, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scr4 View Post
Right, the Oasis is the premium model. Metal body and all that. I love mine. The basic Kindle (6" 167 ppi) is $90, and the Paperwhite (6" 300 ppi) is $130.

As for the bezel - ever notice actual paper books have margins? If they didn't, your fingers would obscure the letters. That's the same reason e-book readers have wide bezels. These aren't pocket-sized devices anyway, so screen-to-body ratio isn't a big selling point.
and the form factor is similar to the form factor of a paperback book. I think the choice of size is intentional, not based on some tech limit. It's a reasonably handy size to carry in a purse or hold with one hand. The Oasis even cleverly puts alone all of the weight along one edge so it's easier to hold for a long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgyn View Post
Given a choice between reading a book on the computer or the phone and reading it on my Kindle Oasis, I'll take the Oasis. It doesn't hurt my eyes, and no matter where I am, I can read it. I carry it with me everywhere.

ETA: wolfpup, what do you call "heavy use"? I can run my Kindle out in a day or two, but we're also talking 3-4 hours of continuous use.
do you leave the WiFi on? Mine lasts for more than a week of heavy use, including reading at night by its light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by md2000 View Post
Not sure Amazon can lock people out... You can download Calibre which not only converts between (unlocked) ebook formats, but also functions as a reader for a number of formats. You can find a number of books available in non-DRM format. I have studiously avoided paying for books that don't give me complete control over what I've bought. (Another use for Calibre is to convert PDF books to mobi or other ebook formats.)
Yup. I borrow a lot of DRM library books, but I only buy books that are DRM-free. That's not an insignificant number of books.
  #88  
Old 02-01-2020, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMANCANADA View Post
The point is that when you have a robust consumer market, companies invest in R&D adding features and reduce prices to compete. When you don't, you get e-readers.

I confess, I know nothing about e-readers other than everyone I've know that had them 10 years ago has stopped using them. I do however, know about economics, I teach it at a university. This is classic capitalist economics, especially in a stagnant-growth oligopoly. This is literally an Economics 101 topic in my class.
Except prices have come down. The original Kindle came out 12 years ago, and sold for $400 - that's about $500 in today's dollars. The current equivalent model (the basic Kindle) costs $90. The Kindle Paperwhite has 4x higher resolution than the original Kindle and adds LED illumination and 32x more memory, and costs $130.

Last edited by scr4; 02-01-2020 at 10:07 PM.
  #89  
Old 02-01-2020, 11:04 PM
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@scr4
Apparently ftg disagrees with you, which part of what prompted the OP. That's what I'm going by. You can have the debate with them.

ftg
Quote:
Normally I'd expect that in 9 years the cost for a slightly bigger tablet that requires such mundane CPU and memory would have drastically fallen. $50 would be pricey.
  #90  
Old 02-02-2020, 06:56 AM
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@scr4
Apparently ftg disagrees with you, which part of what prompted the OP. That's what I'm going by. You can have the debate with them.
I thought that's what we've been doing. Have you read the whole thread?
  #91  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:27 PM
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TBH - I've skimmed most of the thread - I couldn't care less about the pedantic debate on the minutia of what different e-readers offer in terms features, compatibility and hacking that the thread has devolved into.

My focus has been on the OP's questions:
Quote:
Why are E-readers some sort of tech exception? Why aren't they more bangs per buck? Why isn't there the amazing leaps that you see everywhere else in this field.
and
Quote:
I was asking mainly about the economics of these vs. standard tech progress.
I think his question is valid and have no need or desire to correct him and prove his premise invalid.
  #92  
Old 02-04-2020, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tastysandwiches View Post
Though to be honest, you've got me thinking about buying and rooting a Nook... Would you mind my asking a couple more questions, as you're the one with experience?

If I have a Glowlight that's been modified to run the Play store, can it still be used as a regular Glowlight? That is, can I use the Kindle app to read my Kindle books and then switch back to the normal GlowLight UI, the one designed for e-ink, to read my Nook and DRM free books? Or do you have to lose the original interface to use it as a tablet?

How is the experience of running the Kindle app on your Nook Simple Touch?

Thanks!
Running Google Play Store on an old Nook Glowlight or Simple Touch won't work. It's just an astonishing resource hog. But you can sideload apps on a suitably modified old Nook using one of the services that grabs the app you want from the Play Store. (And they can make it easier to get the older version that would run on the 2.2 ? Android version.) It's the newer LCD Nooks (and others?) that work natively with the Google Play Store.

Here's the sub-forum on XDA-Dev for the NST and old Glowlight models. While some discussion concerns full blown rooting and/or installing a different Android OS like Cyanogenmod, most concerns more mundane stuff. One classic topic was finding various versions of settings.apk to try and get access to more settings than the original came with. Getting into landscape mode (which I love) is another old topic.

----

However, I would like to stop here regarding the side discussions regarding various E-reader internals and capabilities outside the scope of my OP.

I really appreciate comments such as GMANCANADA's.
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