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  #151  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:24 PM
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There’s the Joe we know.
  #152  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:48 PM
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Somewhere around the eighth inning the LA fans were like meh, I never really liked the Dodgers that much anyway. Unbelievable, the whole game.
  #153  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:51 PM
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I never saw a stadium empty out that quickly.

I guess we're OK without Bryce, huh?
  #154  
Old 10-10-2019, 12:17 AM
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After the last two years... but still, I’d stay the whole game even if it were like the last Cards/Braves game, if I were a Dodgers fan.

But living out here, I understand the frustration. I feel bad for the Dodger fans. But not for Joe Kelly.

Last edited by Locrian; 10-10-2019 at 12:17 AM.
  #155  
Old 10-10-2019, 01:38 AM
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If Kershaw doesnt win a championship, his reputation will always be tainted by playoff failure.

Dave Roberts will likely get fired. Tactically, he is a disaster.

The Dodgers have key players over 30. Perhaps their window is already closed.
  #156  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:00 AM
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What a shitshow. The NL is chock full of pigheaded old-school managers. KNOW YOUR PLAYERS. You got an inning out of Joe Kelly. Should have pulled him after the first baserunner. You're here to win ballgames not popularity contests in the clubhouse.

Jesus Christ. And the Braves with Melancon....FFS.
  #157  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:56 AM
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Jesus, I'm so sorry, Dodger fans. What a horrible, horrible way for that team to go out.

Really thought they'd make it to the Series, with a good chance of winning it all.

Kershaw's obviously a Hall of Famer, but ugh. This is what it must've felt like, living in Houston and watching Biggio and Bagwell play in the playoffs. Though watching Barry Bonds in the playoffs wasn't great either.

The Dodgers have great, young talent. They'll be back.
  #158  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:05 AM
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So maybe Harper was poison in the clubhouse after all. He was the face of the nats but he was never really a leader. More of a primadonna.
  #159  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:16 AM
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Well that was painful. I turned it off after the two home runs. Kershaw is such a great pitcher, was easily the best of his generation, but the post season narrative is powerful I suppose. Hate that.

Last edited by NAF1138; 10-10-2019 at 06:17 AM.
  #160  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:46 AM
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All I can say is I wish I'd been watching the Nats win. I almost always root for the underdog. I especially like it when a batter not perceived as a threat hits a slam!

Will not root for the underdog tonight when the Astros play however. I would not begrudge the Rays a win except that I feel the Astros team is going to be broken up after this season (probably saying bye to George, maybe Carlos, Garritt, who else?) so I would love to see this great group get to party one more time.
  #161  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:46 AM
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All I can say is I wish I'd been watching the Nats win. I almost always root for the underdog. I especially like it when a batter not perceived as a threat hits a slam!

Will not root for the underdog tonight when the Astros play however. I would not begrudge the Rays a win except that I feel the Astros team is going to be broken up after this season (probably saying bye to George, maybe Carlos, Garritt, who else?) so I would love to see this great group get to party one more time.
Cole's probably gone. Just can't see the Astros matching what I think will be something in the 250/7 range. Too bad, as he's amazing, not that I'm telling you all anything you don't already know.

I see them spending for Springer. That, or Boston bows out of trying to retain Betts and settles for Springer. Correa is still under team control for two years. While I want him traded, for someone like Thor, or another stud SP, I'm in the minority among knowledgeable Astros fans.

Miley, Reddick, and some others I'm probably forgetting, are gone, I think.
  #162  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:02 AM
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Wow, extra inning Grand Slam to finish off the Dodgers. This postseason is getting wild. Now Nats vs. Cards? I'm not too sure about this match up. I think the Cards have the edge. They have home field also, so that helps.

Hoping Tampa can beat Cole so Yanks have Home Field.
  #163  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:10 AM
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Well that was painful. I turned it off after the two home runs. Kershaw is such a great pitcher, was easily the best of his generation, but the post season narrative is powerful I suppose. Hate that.
What's powerful is bringing in a starting pitcher as a relief pitcher. I cannot believe how fucking stupid Dave Roberts is. Why do you do that?

The Dodgers could have brought in Kenta Maeda at that point. (I realize Maeda is a starter by trade but he'd been in the bullpen all series.) They ended up bringing him in after the game was tied and he struck out all three batters he faced. Or bring in Pedro Baez, a fine pitcher who had a day off. But seriously, why do you not just aim to stretch Maeda and Jansen at that stage? Why are you bringing in a starter? And if you must, why is he entering mid-inning?

I don't have a handy way of figuring this out, but doesn't it seem like the "I do not trust my bullpen so let's convert my best starter into a relief pitcher right now" strategy blows up way too often? Expos fans still remember Steve Rogers being inexplicably trotted out in the ninth inning in Game 5 in 1981. I can think of lots of examples of this strategy exploding. I just don't get it.
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  #164  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:30 AM
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...I can think of lots of examples of this strategy exploding. I just don't get it.
Case of the clevers? Kershaw had really good splits against the next few batters, better than Maeda? I don't know.

I agree with you that managers asking pitchers to do things they aren't used to---or any player, really---usually turns out terribly. Asking Osuna to pitch a 4-out save, in admittedly a high leverage situation, when he hadn't done it all year. Asking Verlander to go on short rest, and Verlander gets stunned that his control is off. Well no shit, Sherlock. Asking sluggers to bunt.

It goes on and on. Still, they do it. Often because I think they begin to lack faith in what got them there, and they believe the difficulties their usual strategy or approach is currently encountering, will continue if they don't make a change. Then again, we all remember when the crazy thing actually works: Gibson's homer when he could barely walk, Schilling's bloody sock game.

Last edited by Gray Ghost; 10-10-2019 at 08:31 AM.
  #165  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:35 AM
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What's powerful is bringing in a starting pitcher as a relief pitcher. I cannot believe how fucking stupid Dave Roberts is. Why do you do that?

The Dodgers could have brought in Kenta Maeda at that point. (I realize Maeda is a starter by trade but he'd been in the bullpen all series.) They ended up bringing him in after the game was tied and he struck out all three batters he faced. Or bring in Pedro Baez, a fine pitcher who had a day off. But seriously, why do you not just aim to stretch Maeda and Jansen at that stage? Why are you bringing in a starter? And if you must, why is he entering mid-inning?

I don't have a handy way of figuring this out, but doesn't it seem like the "I do not trust my bullpen so let's convert my best starter into a relief pitcher right now" strategy blows up way too often? Expos fans still remember Steve Rogers being inexplicably trotted out in the ninth inning in Game 5 in 1981. I can think of lots of examples of this strategy exploding. I just don't get it.
The whole thing was stupid, I agree. I don't know what they were doing.

I'm too rattled right now to be thinking about it rationally though. though.
  #166  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:07 AM
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Definitely feeling nervous about today's game. The series feels a lot like the Kansas City series from a few years ago. It would be a bummer for this team's season to end early, but that's baseball.
  #167  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:09 AM
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It goes on and on. Still, they do it. Often because I think they begin to lack faith in what got them there, and they believe the difficulties their usual strategy or approach is currently encountering, will continue if they don't make a change. Then again, we all remember when the crazy thing actually works: Gibson's homer when he could barely walk, Schilling's bloody sock game.
The 2017 Astros nearly abandoning their bullpen and turning all of their important innings over to converted starters.
  #168  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:10 AM
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According to one of the Nats blogs, this is the first extra innings grand slam by a visiting team in playoff history. No idea how to confirm that, but that’s a pretty impressive stat. Although, I do realize that most of baseball history only saw a World Series and not so many playoff games.
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  #169  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:29 AM
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According to one of the Nats blogs, this is the first extra innings grand slam by a visiting team in playoff history. No idea how to confirm that, but that’s a pretty impressive stat. Although, I do realize that most of baseball history only saw a World Series and not so many playoff games.
I think it’s only the second grand slam walk-off in MLB postseason history. The first one was only 8 years ago, by Nelson Cruz.
https://www.mlb.com/cut4/nelson-cruz...cs/c-153951694

EDIT: Meh, I guess this latest wasn’t a walk-off, never mind.

Last edited by Atamasama; 10-10-2019 at 11:33 AM.
  #170  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:50 AM
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Did MLB swap out the juiced balls for the postseason?

In a nutshell, the pay-walled Baseball Prospectus article makes the claim that "based on exit velocity+launch angle+park effects, there have been about *50%* fewer home runs than expected."
  #171  
Old 10-10-2019, 12:31 PM
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The 2017 Astros nearly abandoning their bullpen and turning all of their important innings over to converted starters.
That's true. McCullers was great at it. Better than his performance as a SP, but let's see what happens after his Tommy John surgery. It easily could have blown up in Hinch's face.

Elimination games are supposed to be stressful. Damned if this won't be a crusher though, if they lose tonight. I just hope it's a good game, and not that Cardinals-Braves debacle from last night.
  #172  
Old 10-10-2019, 12:41 PM
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How about dem NATS?!

I was watching the game with my mother (and my landlady, starting in the 9th).

I actually said out loud after we got guys on 2nd and third in the 10th: "Now if I'm the Dodgers, I'm putting Soto on deliberately and making Howie Kendrick beat us."

Well, he sure did! It was great to see after the terrible series he'd had.
  #173  
Old 10-10-2019, 01:47 PM
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That's true. McCullers was great at it. Better than his performance as a SP, but let's see what happens after his Tommy John surgery. It easily could have blown up in Hinch's face.
McCullers was mostly used as a starter in 2017.

He was okay as a reliever in 2018 - two runs, albeit one unearned, in five innings - but in that regard he was like Kenta Maeda; he had started in the regular season but in the playoffs he was cast solely as a reliever, and was preparing and warming up accordingly. He wasn't thrown into a game as a reliever after starting in the same series.
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  #174  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:32 PM
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I actually said out loud after we got guys on 2nd and third in the 10th: "Now if I'm the Dodgers, I'm putting Soto on deliberately and making Howie Kendrick beat us."
Soto vs Kendrick aside, doesn't it make perfect sense to set up a force play at home in a situation where giving up a even single run stands a good chance of losing you the series? The Dodgers certainly weren't significantly worse off by the home run scoring 4 runs rather than 3.

I guess that the biggest problem is that it puts the pitcher in a situation where he cannot walk the batter, so if he gets into a situation where there are 3 balls in the count his options are very limited.
  #175  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:23 PM
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I just hope it's a good game, and not that Cardinals-Braves debacle from last night.
I'll take the outcome, though it was maybe the most boring possible game, which is one where almost all the scoring happens in the first inning and it isn't close enough that the late innings have much tension.
  #176  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:25 PM
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I'll take the outcome, though it was maybe the most boring possible game, which is one where almost all the scoring happens in the first inning and it isn't close enough that the late innings have much tension.
Boring that way is good. I was still pretty tense in the 6th and 7th.

Nice to see Brantley's bat wake up.

Here come the Yankees.
  #177  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:42 PM
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Having to stand around while the Rays change pitchers after every batter is boring for everyone, including the Rays outfielders. I think it's lousy strategy. On the other hand I thought bringing Cole back for the 8th inning was a mistake, so shows what I know.

I did predict Brantley's home run when he came to the plate, so there is that.

GO ASTROS!
  #178  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:36 AM
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Soto vs Kendrick aside, doesn't it make perfect sense to set up a force play at home in a situation where giving up a even single run stands a good chance of losing you the series? The Dodgers certainly weren't significantly worse off by the home run scoring 4 runs rather than 3.
I hate intentional walks. Hate them. Almost all international walks make the situation worse.

That particular intentional walk, though, probably gave the Dodgers a slightly better chance; with no one out your chances of escaping the jam without a force play are really, really bad. That said it depends on the pitcher you have out there; a ground ball pitcher like Marcus Stroman or Stephen Strasburg vastly improves the effectiveness of that strategy. Kelly is a ground ball pitcher, despite the homer, so it was a reasonably good gamble.
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  #179  
Old 10-11-2019, 12:53 PM
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Almost all international walks make the situation worse.
The worst part is dealing with customs and border security.
  #180  
Old 10-11-2019, 01:30 PM
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I hate intentional walks. Hate them. Almost all intentional walks make the situation worse.
Incidentally, one stat from the regular season that impresses me is that the Astros issued zero intentional walks.
  #181  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:27 PM
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Bit of trivia: I forgot my girlfriend actually knows Mike Shildt. She told me back when he was an interim manager...and only recalled yesterday when we were talking about his shit talking the Braves (Also...her team). I asked her to text him right there and then, and ask him "What his ****ing problem is and why he's trying to get Dexter Fowler beaned with the first pitch next May 18th."

She declined.

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  #182  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:59 PM
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Wow. Quite a catch by Zimmerman to preserve the no-hitter, and also save a probable double.
  #183  
Old 10-12-2019, 03:28 PM
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Well that was painful. I turned it off after the two home runs. Kershaw is such a great pitcher, was easily the best of his generation, but the post season narrative is powerful I suppose. Hate that.
I always felt that Kershaw's post-season narrative was kind of blown out of proportion. Clearly not as effective in post-season as during the regular, but that's true of some hall of fame players. Kershaw has pitched well in some big postseason games, but people will always remember his failures because he's usually been the guy who's been asked to go out and save their season.

All of that being said, his game 5 meltdown is going to be hard to live down. Not just one homer, but two. Back to back. Two consecutive swings. I admire his ability to stand up and face the inevitable questions with integrity. And who knows, he may get another chance at some point. Hope so.
  #184  
Old 10-12-2019, 04:03 PM
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As a long-time Cards fan, I don't know why, but I just have this weird feeling that the Nats are going to own us this time around and there's not gonna be any 10th-inning magic to spare us.

I just get the sense that it's their time. The Nats have had actually a solid organization for the past 6 or 7 years now; they've just for whatever reason been unable to achieve a breakthrough. But Sanchez was on last night. Scherzer's a stud. Strass is also a stud, and kudos to the Nats for finding a way to keep him with their organization for as long as they have and not giving him away, which might have been tempting when he was struggling with injuries.
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Old 10-12-2019, 07:58 PM
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I always felt that Kershaw's post-season narrative was kind of blown out of proportion. Clearly not as effective in post-season as during the regular, but that's true of some hall of fame players. Kershaw has pitched well in some big postseason games, but people will always remember his failures because he's usually been the guy who's been asked to go out and save their season.

All of that being said, his game 5 meltdown is going to be hard to live down. Not just one homer, but two. Back to back. Two consecutive swings. I admire his ability to stand up and face the inevitable questions with integrity. And who knows, he may get another chance at some point. Hope so.
Both the Kershaw narrative and the narrative that you don't give Joe Kelly any rope beyond a single baserunner was already real....and Roberts got burnt on both

Insane
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Old 10-12-2019, 08:06 PM
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The Nats are real.

Insane.
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Old 10-12-2019, 09:31 PM
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The Nats are real.

Insane.
Yeah, I'm a long time Nats fan and I'm embarrassed to admit that I bailed on them early in the season because I've had my heart broke so many times. But they are playing no-doubter, we belong in the World Series baseball. They're bullpen is still wobbly, but my god the starting pitching is insane. And how great is it to see Ryan Zimmerman contributing in what may be his last days as a Nat?
  #188  
Old 10-12-2019, 10:03 PM
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The Nats to me represent the epitome of addition by subtraction. They got rid of the (no doubt really good hitter, above average fielder but total clubhouse poison) Harper and suddenly they're rock solid in the playoffs - while the Phillies sit home watching it on tv.
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:04 PM
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Tanaka was brilliant tonight, should have gotten a chance at the complete game. Thanks baseball gods for making the Sunday start at 7, that means I should be able to stay up and watch it. Maybe if they played the World Series at an earlier hour, school kids might be able to stay up for it and grow up to be baseball fans.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:08 AM
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The Nats to me represent the epitome of addition by subtraction. They got rid of the (no doubt really good hitter, above average fielder but total clubhouse poison) Harper and suddenly they're rock solid in the playoffs - while the Phillies sit home watching it on tv.
I don't know if Harp was necessarily clubhouse poison, but it's clear that he was too much personality for one team, and there's no way he's worth the money he wanted to be paid. The lesson for baseball teams going forward is, take a look at Harper's contract, take a look at Pujols' contract: what have those teams gotten in return for that "investment." Nothing. Hell the Angels have since added arguably the best baseball player alive, and they still can't make it to the playoffs.
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:14 AM
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... Thanks baseball gods for making the Sunday start at 7, that means I should be able to stay up and watch it. ...
MLB is listing tonight's games as 8:08pm EDT on FS1. Not sure where you saw 7pm. Different time zone maybe?


Tanaka looked great. He easily could have started the 7th, but no need. The bullpen just had 4 days off. That is baseball today.

Yanks had to beat Greinke as beating Verlander on normal rest at home is going to be very tough. Of course if the Yanks steal tonight's game, goodbye Astros.

Last night got Tanaka down to a 1.32 ERA in 7 postseason games and 41 innings. He has been so much better postseason than regular season.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:23 AM
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Time to cue up a revival of Damn Yankees? Calling Mr. Applegate...
  #193  
Old 10-13-2019, 11:01 AM
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Can't remember what the Astros gave up to get Greinke but I hope it wasn't much...
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Old 10-13-2019, 02:17 PM
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Can't remember what the Astros gave up to get Greinke but I hope it wasn't much...
July 31, 2019: Traded by the Arizona Diamondbacks with cash to the Houston Astros for Seth Beer (minors), J.B. Bukauskas (minors), Corbin Martin and Josh Rojas.
  #195  
Old 10-13-2019, 02:49 PM
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So do you think he was worth it?
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Old 10-13-2019, 02:52 PM
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So do you think he was worth it?
Probably too soon to tell but I know I didn't want the Yanks to give up much for Greinke if they traded for him. I wanted a post-season pitcher not just a good innings eater.
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Old 10-13-2019, 02:54 PM
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Myself I was hoping to get a pitcher that would be good for the post season AND the next year. You know, like Verlander or Cole. Well hey, a girl can dream, no? Anyway we got Greinke and it looks to me so far that he's good for nothing.
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Old 10-13-2019, 03:34 PM
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MLB is listing tonight's games as 8:08pm EDT on FS1. Not sure where you saw 7pm. Different time zone maybe?


Tanaka looked great. He easily could have started the 7th, but no need. The bullpen just had 4 days off. That is baseball today.

Yanks had to beat Greinke as beating Verlander on normal rest at home is going to be very tough. Of course if the Yanks steal tonight's game, goodbye Astros.

Last night got Tanaka down to a 1.32 ERA in 7 postseason games and 41 innings. He has been so much better postseason than regular season.
Crap. You're right. I don't know where I got the 7pm, but I'm in the ETZ and it's 8pm for me. Why can't baseball learn from the NFL and play its postseason games when first shift ET workers and schoolkids can watch it? Way to not entice the fans of tomorrow into loving the sport.

Yeah the bullpen probably needed some work, so I don't mind that much that Tanaka was deprived of a shutout opportunity, but still. Managers are compulsive overmanagers in today's game, particularly in the postseason.
  #199  
Old 10-13-2019, 03:59 PM
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Tampa forced Greinke into being the game one starter, but it doesn't mean much. If the series goes seven games, Verlander and Cole can both pitch twice on regular rest. Advantage: Houston.
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Old 10-13-2019, 05:52 PM
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Tampa forced Greinke into being the game one starter, but it doesn't mean much. If the series goes seven games, Verlander and Cole can both pitch twice on regular rest. Advantage: Houston.
Yanks need to beat either Verlander or Cole (or more likely the bullpen late in the game) once and win everything else. It is quite possible. Beating Greinke at Houston was a great start to this.
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