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Old 11-13-2019, 10:25 PM
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Pedestrians should be fair game if they're crossing outside the crosswalk!


Yesterday and today, I saw an idiot (different place, different idiot) start at the beginning of the crosswalk and walk at an angle, stepping on the sidewalk about 10 feet away from the crosswalk. Woo hoo, must be great to have saved those five steps after accounting for the extra distance you had to travel not in a straight line.

The idiot crossing this way stared at me as he was crossing. Ummm...I was making a right turn and if didn't happen to see you step off the curb, I probably wouldn't have seen you since I was watching and waiting for the woman IN the crosswalk to get to the other side!

Also, I feel a little bad when I hear/read that an elderly person was hit crossing the street outside the crosswalk, but think "GOOD!" if it's someone younger.
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:34 PM
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They will be once self-driving cars are more common.
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:45 PM
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You'd probably hate Oregon then. Here, any street corner is considered to be a crosswalk whether or not there are lines painted on the street, and if a pedestrian has signaled their intention to cross (this is done by "breaking the plane" of the edge of the street so as soon as any part of their body has entered the street space, they've signaled) then any driver who does not stop is in the wrong and can be handed a very nice $250 ticket. So if there's a teensy little street that opens onto a four lane major arterial and the pedestrian starts walking across between parked cars at the corner and nobody driving even knows there's a street there they all have to stop or they're in violation. In theory it's a good idea, in practice it's somewhat nerve wracking.
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Old 11-13-2019, 11:00 PM
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Ohhh..You're right, I'd absolutely hate that!

In Hawaii, it's illegal to enter the crosswalk once the countdown timer begins. Every once in a while I'll see police at the intersections in our town district. It fills my heart with joy to see someone step onto the opposite curb and get a ticket!

Edit: The ticket can be as much as $130. Not sure what's required to get that one!

Last edited by lingyi; 11-13-2019 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 11-13-2019, 11:02 PM
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Hell is reserved for the motorists who think they own or ought to own the public transit ways exclusively. Im looking at you early 20th-century automotive lobbyists who pushed for laws against jaywalking and for the design of un-walkable cities.
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Old 11-13-2019, 11:22 PM
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Crosswalks, feh! Here in NYC crossing 10 ft from the crosswalk wouldn’t even raise an eyebrow.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:30 AM
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I shake my head when I read of Americans complaining about traffic problems. Crossing a street here can be hazardous; I try to be specially careful since my reflexes and sprint speeds are slowing with age.

It was literally just yesterday that our close neighbor had his motorcycle borrowed by brother-in-law; Brother-in-law promptly collided with a pedestrian less than 2 miles from our house. Victim's injuries are likely to prove fatal. (I don't know if neighbor or his brother-in-law will be on the hook for fines and hospital charges. The "single-payer" healthcare system here covers illnesses but not accidents.)
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ASL v2.0 View Post
Hell is reserved for the motorists who think they own or ought to own the public transit ways exclusively. Im looking at you early 20th-century automotive lobbyists who pushed for laws against jaywalking and for the design of un-walkable cities.
Hear, hear!
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:33 AM
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Here in Kobe our neighborhood has crosswalks (zebra crossings) without traffic lights. They are relatively uncommon elsewhere and many drivers do not know that they must give way to pedestrians crossing at that point even though there are no traffic lights.
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:52 AM
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I should be able to murder kill to death anyone who commits even the slightest of barely-enforceable infractions! By car or by perfectly legal m4 with massive large capacity mag.
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Old 11-14-2019, 03:02 AM
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As a kid I never quite understood what "jaywalking" was (to be honest, I'm not even sure what it means now). here in the UK you can cross anywhere without it being an offence at least I've never heard of anyone getting done for it. When I'm in London the tourists waits for the lights at the corssing places, the locals and other UK people tend not to.
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Last edited by Novelty Bobble; 11-14-2019 at 03:03 AM.
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Old 11-14-2019, 03:05 AM
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I don't know about other states, but in California, the lines painted on the pavement to indicate "crosswalk" are not some kind of magic protective area. Every intersection is a crosswalk, whether there are lines or not, (notwithstanding special, clearly marked prohibitions). And that just means that if a pedestrian has stepped off the curb with a clear intention to cross, cars must stop. But pedestrians must do this only in a safe manner.

Furthermore, it is legal to cross at any point in the block if one (or both) of the two closest intersections doesn't have a traffic signal--again, however, only if done in a safe manner. Basically it means that pedestrians can't just jump out in front of moving cars and think the law requires them to stop.
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Old 11-14-2019, 03:12 AM
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Hell is reserved for the motorists who think they own or ought to own the public transit ways exclusively. Im looking at you early 20th-century automotive lobbyists who pushed for laws against jaywalking and for the design of un-walkable cities.
If drivers stopped thinking of their journey in terms of 'right of way' and started instead thinking about safe behaviour, the world would just be a slightly better place
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Old 11-14-2019, 05:19 AM
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Of course I was being facetious in my post title and I don't think that I am the 'God of the roadway' just because I'm in car, but Hawaii has very specific laws regarding pedestrian crossings and I'm bound my the laws of the road and so are pedestrians, including crossing diagonally:

" 291C-73 Crossing at other than crosswalks. (a) Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway.

(b) Any pedestrian crossing a roadway at a point where a pedestrian tunnel or overhead pedestrian crossing has been provided shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway.

(c) Between adjacent intersections at which traffic-control signals are in operation, pedestrians shall not cross at any place except in a marked crosswalk.

(d) No pedestrian shall cross a roadway intersection diagonally unless authorized by official traffic-control devices; and, when authorized to cross diagonally, pedestrians shall cross only in accordance with the official traffic-control devices pertaining to the crossing movements.

(e) Every person who violates this section shall be fined $100. [L 1971, c 150, pt of 1; am L 2007, c 125, 2]"

Source: https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscu...0291C-0073.htm

Last edited by lingyi; 11-14-2019 at 05:21 AM.
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:03 AM
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As a kid I never quite understood what "jaywalking" was (to be honest, I'm not even sure what it means now). here in the UK you can cross anywhere without it being an offence at least I've never heard of anyone getting done for it. When I'm in London the tourists waits for the lights at the corssing places, the locals and other UK people tend not to.
That's because jay walking is not an offence in the UK - you can cross anywhere you like. It's the driver's responsibility to not kill you. After all, people were crossing roads before cars were even invented.
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:50 AM
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Also, I feel a little bad when I hear/read that an elderly person was hit crossing the street outside the crosswalk, but think "GOOD!" if it's someone younger.
I agree that jaywalking is irritating.
I live in England, where jaywalking isn't illegal, but I still use pedestrian crossings and traffic lights correctly. (Also I look both ways, even if I have right of way.)

I really hope you were joking about feeling happy that someone got killed just because they inconvenienced a driver. It's that appalling attitude that leads to many road deaths (including road rage.)
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Old 11-14-2019, 07:31 AM
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Your worried about 10 feet outside the painted lines? AYFKM? And yes why should a walker not watch a motorist, especially one who seems to hold contempt for them for no apparent reason.

My own take on it if crossing outside the crosswalk as far as etiquette goes, first on or near the crosswalk is the exact same thing, so 10 feet will get you nothing but respect and the right of way. 2nd is if one chooses to cross without the crosswalk (or outside of a intersection, which one is allowed to cross as a crosswalk), they are doing it with the understanding that the cars have the right of way.

The only place I have seen this not applicable is in Germany, as all lanes are clearly marked, used for different right of ways, and also highly respected by the people. In that yes you can cross anywhere, however no one should have any obligation to respect you being in their right of way. Fines there are based on traffic/RoW disruption, not so much rule breaking.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:13 AM
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Crosswalks, feh! Here in NYC crossing 10 ft from the crosswalk wouldnt even raise an eyebrow.
In all the years I lived in NYC, I don't remember even seeing a crosswalk.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:14 AM
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...
The idiot crossing this way stared at me as he was crossing. ....
I'm not bothered much by jaywalkers. But this gets at something that DOES bug me - when apparently able-bodied pedestrians act as tho they are enjoying making traffic wait. I'm not saying pedestrians should jog across the street, but they often seem to slow down, either acting oblivious to the traffic or staring it down.

Reminds me of something I first heard from my niece. There are pedestrians, bikers, and drivers. Whichever you happen to be at the moment, you hate the other 2! (But all 3 hate rollerbladers!)
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:24 AM
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And if a driver stops with his car in the crosswalk, even an inch, it should be fair game to throw an explosive device at it.

I hate this little bit of asshole behavior. How is pulling your car six inches into the crosswalk going to help you?

Last edited by Annie-Xmas; 11-14-2019 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:37 AM
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You'd probably hate Oregon then. Here, any street corner is considered to be a crosswalk whether or not there are lines painted on the street, and if a pedestrian has signaled their intention to cross (this is done by "breaking the plane" of the edge of the street so as soon as any part of their body has entered the street space, they've signaled) then any driver who does not stop is in the wrong and can be handed a very nice $250 ticket. So if there's a teensy little street that opens onto a four lane major arterial and the pedestrian starts walking across between parked cars at the corner and nobody driving even knows there's a street there they all have to stop or they're in violation. In theory it's a good idea, in practice it's somewhat nerve wracking.
In practice it is a fantasy in Oregon. You step off a curb anywhere in Portland and the traffic just whizzes by. I had 23 cars go by without even slowing down, then I saw a police car approaching. "Aha!" I said to myself, "At least someone is going to get a ticket".
The police car just zips by me.
In fact I can't recall seeing any police stopping to let people cross, let alone handing out tickets to others. The "No Smoking At Bus Stops" signs are better regulated.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:05 AM
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I should be able to murder kill to death anyone who commits even the slightest of barely-enforceable infractions! By car or by perfectly legal m4 with massive large capacity mag.
So if you block my crosswalk while i am legally crossing the street, I can pull out my 44 magnum and blow you away. Sweet.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:20 AM
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In fact I can't recall seeing any police stopping to let people cross, let alone handing out tickets to others. The "No Smoking At Bus Stops" signs are better regulated.
Yes, going after those "dangerous pedestrians, threatening cars with their own frail bodies" seems to be much more common than actively enforcing those few laws that are supposed to favor pedestrians.

Line of cars zipping through a crosswalk as a pedestrian makes to enter in a locality where doing so is supposed to confer right of way? No problem. Lone pedestrian crossing a street outside of a crosswalk during a gap in traffic, threatening no one and in no way interfering with the passage of vehicular traffic? Write 'em up!
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:24 AM
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If drivers stopped thinking of their journey in terms of 'right of way' and started instead thinking about safe behaviour, the world would just be a slightly better place
I'm not so sure. At least when there are substantial amounts of traffic, I suspect a world where there are clearly defined traffic laws and everyone follows those laws is preferable to a world where there are no traffic laws and everyone just tries to behave safely.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:31 AM
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Not so much an absence of laws, but there have been some experiments with removal of signage and postings at certain intersections, predicated on the idea that the strangeness/ambiguity of the situation causes people to proceed more cautiously.

Vox did a short video on the subject. Road signs suck. What if we got rid of them all?

Spoiler alert: apparently it works great, unless you have a disability that impairs your ability to cross and/or be seen by traffic.

Last edited by ASL v2.0; 11-14-2019 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:46 AM
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I'm not so sure. At least when there are substantial amounts of traffic, I suspect a world where there are clearly defined traffic laws and everyone follows those laws is preferable to a world where there are no traffic laws and everyone just tries to behave safely.
What I meant was that a lot of aggressive behaviour on the road is rooted in the notion 'I have right of way here' and people behave quite unsafely in their assertion of their right of way, and also in reaction to when someone else violates their right of way.

For example, on dashcam footage you very often see things like this:
Someone switches lane right in front of the dashcam driver (sure, they shouldn't have done it)
The dashcam driver is at first surprised, but soon after, offended and as a result of being offended, does something unsafe - such as accelerating to tailgate and honk at the other driver, or overtake to shout abuse sideways.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:29 PM
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If I need to catch a bus near my home my choice is either to go across the street to the bus stop, or walk five blocks to the nearest crosswalk.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:34 PM
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Sounds like we may be unique based on the posts above, but Hawaii has numerous laws regarding pedestrian and driver rules that cover the majority of circumstances. https://hidot.hawaii.gov/highways/sa...isehawaii/faq/ I have to know the driver rules for the right to drive and non-idiotic pedestrians know or use common sense when crossing the read.

BTW, Yes, I don't always follow all the driving laws to the tee, but I always use the crosswalk and stay in the crosswalk when there is one, even if it means walking another block to get to it.

Last edited by lingyi; 11-14-2019 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:36 PM
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In "Adam Ruins Everything" (Netflix, TruTV), they did an episode that addressed "jaywalking" and the battle between pedestrians and autos.

Basically, before autos, everyone walked in roads willy nilly. People knew to look out for street cars and horse carriages, but it was all a big mis-mash. One can find ancient films on Youtube showing street scenes for examples. Once autos came along, they were a danger, and eventually the manufacturers and AAA got legislatures to impose rules on pedestrians. And here we are!

Adam Ruins Cars
Season 1 | Ep 3
Adam dives into the much-beloved auto industry and exposes the surprising truths behind car dealerships, and the fact that the concept of "jaywalking" was created by auto manufacturers to blame pedestrians for car crashes.
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Last edited by Icarus; 11-14-2019 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:55 PM
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Since I've become car-less and walk almost everywhere, I've become aware of how many a-hole drivers are out there resenting my use of the crosswalk (at a near-jog) when dammit, they're in a hurry. It'd be great if people turning right would pay attention.

Y'all have at least a ton of metal around you. All I've got is my clothing.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:06 PM
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Since I've become car-less and walk almost everywhere, I've become aware of how many a-hole drivers are out there resenting my use of the crosswalk (at a near-jog) when dammit, they're in a hurry. It'd be great if people turning right would pay attention.

Y'all have at least a ton of metal around you. All I've got is my clothing.
For heaven's sake, don't be running into the cross walk as that's a good way to get killed. You must remember from your driving days, a right turning driver must also be looking left for cars coming. While that driver must respect your "right" you don't want to be 'dead right'.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:11 PM
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Since I've become car-less and walk almost everywhere, I've become aware of how many a-hole drivers are out there resenting my use of the crosswalk (at a near-jog) when dammit, they're in a hurry. It'd be great if people turning right would pay attention.

Y'all have at least a ton of metal around you. All I've got is my clothing.
And yet pedestrians think that a ton of metal moving at 30mph will instantly be able to stop as soon as they step off the curb!

My anger and frustration is certainly fueled by the fact that I was hit very lightly by a car because I unknowingly crossed against a light (I was in grade school and thankfully suffered just a few scratches and a huge bruise on my thigh). And having worked on a coning crew where I was sometimes left standing on the double solid line on the road with cars zipping along 50mph on both sides.

Been there, done that. Pedestrians, you vs a car. Car ALWAYS wins!

Last edited by lingyi; 11-14-2019 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:23 PM
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Spoiler alert: apparently it works great, unless you have a disability that impairs your ability to cross and/or be seen by traffic.
So being Goth & only dressing in black (at night) is now considered a disability?
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:28 PM
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You must remember from your driving days, a right turning driver must also be looking left for cars coming.
Which is why pedestrians who enjoy living cross midblock (where cars are coming from one or two directions), and are looking where you will be walking) rather than going to intersections where cars may be coming from multiple directions and looking everywhere but where the pedestrian is.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:33 PM
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I don't know about other states, but in California, the lines painted on the pavement to indicate "crosswalk" are not some kind of magic protective area. Every intersection is a crosswalk, whether there are lines or not, (notwithstanding special, clearly marked prohibitions). And that just means that if a pedestrian has stepped off the curb with a clear intention to cross, cars must stop.
Even if the cars have a green light?
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:37 PM
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Even if the cars have a green light?
Accused: "Yes, your honor, I did run over that pedestrian, but the light was green!"

Judge: "Well, that changes everything! Case dismissed!"
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:37 PM
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My anger and frustration is certainly fueled by the fact that I was hit very lightly by a car because I unknowingly crossed against a light (I was in grade school and thankfully suffered just a few scratches and a huge bruise on my thigh).
As a child you were assaulted by a vehicle, and yet now you identify with your attacker? Hmmm...
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:37 PM
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In practice it is a fantasy in Oregon. You step off a curb anywhere in Portland and the traffic just whizzes by. I had 23 cars go by without even slowing down, then I saw a police car approaching. "Aha!" I said to myself, "At least someone is going to get a ticket".
The police car just zips by me.
In fact I can't recall seeing any police stopping to let people cross, let alone handing out tickets to others. The "No Smoking At Bus Stops" signs are better regulated.
Tell that to the literally hundreds of drivers in Hillsboro and Beaverton and on SE Division and Powell who got nailed to the floor by sting operations. Since then it's been much less wild west out here in SE anyway. The city also put in a shitload of very nice crosswalks with buttons to turn on flashy lights and islands in the middle of the streets to help protect steppers--this has helped tremendously. I may or may not see the person dressed all in black and dark grey sneaking off the curb behind a parked car to leap out at me while I'm driving but I sure can't miss the flashy lights. I live off SE 122nd and there used to be almost no crosswalks except those at traffic light intersections and now there are at least ten between Foster and Marine Blvd and it's ever so much less crazy making. Division, Powell and Foster have likewise gotten the road diet/crosswalk treatment along with a big downward change in speed limits. I can't help but applaud these measures even if it does make my drive a little longer. Foster was a goddamned GTA nightmare before they fixed it.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:39 PM
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Accused: "Yes, your honor, I did run over that pedestrian, but the light was green!"

Judge: "Well, that changes everything! Case dismissed!"
I wouldn't hit anybody if I could avoid it but if I'm heading towards a green light and a pedestrian steps off the curb inside my stopping distance I'm not sure how you could hold me responsible.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:59 PM
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As a child you were assaulted by a vehicle, and yet now you identify with your attacker? Hmmm...
Attacker? The driver? Absolutely not!.

At the time, I insisted that I had the crossing light, but thinking about it even back then, I was wrong even if I did have the right of way. I saw the crossing signal, turned to talk to my friend then stepped off the curb without looking. I don't know if the car was stopped when I first looked at the light or not. Again, I was wrong because I didn't fulfill my responsibility of double checking if the right of way was still mine and not checking for any vehicle movement.
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:06 PM
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Yesterday and today, I saw an idiot (different place, different idiot) start at the beginning of the crosswalk and walk at an angle, stepping on the sidewalk about 10 feet away from the crosswalk. Woo hoo, must be great to have saved those five steps after accounting for the extra distance you had to travel not in a straight line.

The idiot crossing this way stared at me as he was crossing. Ummm...I was making a right turn and if didn't happen to see you step off the curb, I probably wouldn't have seen you since I was watching and waiting for the woman IN the crosswalk to get to the other side!
I get annoyed by people crossing in the middle of a block rather than walking down to the nearest intersection*. But it sounds like this person was crossing at an intersection, but took a slightly more direct path to where they were going rather than staying in between the white lines the entire time they were in the street. And you're annoyed because they didn't stay in between the white lines. I don't see what the big deal is. They crossed at an intersection. What does it matter if they're physically in between the lines that mark the crosswalk, or a few feet outside of them?

In my neighborhood there's a four way stop at nearly every intersection. When I moved there over a decade ago there were no actual crosswalk markings at any of these intersections, but like someone said upthread in California (and I assume most other states) every intersection is considered a crosswalk even if there aren't actual lines painted on the pavement. But earlier this year for some reason the city went and painted crosswalk markings at every intersection. Except the crosswalks they panted don't line up with the sidewalks (they do line up with the curb cuts, which I assume is why they put them where they did). I think it's silly to walk three feet to my right, cross the street, and then three feet back to my left to get back to the sidewalk, just because that's where the magic white lines are. So I don't. I just keep walking in a straight line and cross about three feet away from the marked crosswalk. Oh no! I'm outside the crosswalk! Lock me up!

*If it's a busy street. I don't really see any harm in crossing a residental street with no traffic where ever it's convenient.
  #42  
Old 11-14-2019, 02:15 PM
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Even if the cars have a green light?
No, of course not. If there's a traffic signal and walk/don't walk lights, then of course the pedestrian is supposed to wait for the walk signal. In fact there's a joke that you can identify a Californian on the east coast because they're the only ones standing there waiting patiently for the walk signal even though there's no traffic. What "every intersection is a crosswalk" means is that pedestrians are allowed to cross three street there even if there aren't actual lines painted on the pavement, unless there's a sign specifically saying they can't. This mostly applies at intersections without traffic lights; at intersections with lights there are pretty much always marked crosswalks and pedestrian signals anyway.
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:30 PM
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Tell that to the literally hundreds of drivers in Hillsboro and Beaverton and on SE Division and Powell who got nailed to the floor by sting operations. Since then it's been much less wild west out here in SE anyway. The city also put in a shitload of very nice crosswalks with buttons to turn on flashy lights and islands in the middle of the streets to help protect steppers--this has helped tremendously. I may or may not see the person dressed all in black and dark grey sneaking off the curb behind a parked car to leap out at me while I'm driving but I sure can't miss the flashy lights. I live off SE 122nd and there used to be almost no crosswalks except those at traffic light intersections and now there are at least ten between Foster and Marine Blvd and it's ever so much less crazy making. Division, Powell and Foster have likewise gotten the road diet/crosswalk treatment along with a big downward change in speed limits. I can't help but applaud these measures even if it does make my drive a little longer. Foster was a goddamned GTA nightmare before they fixed it.
Yes, Portland has occasionally had "sting" days in which they concentrate on a specific crossing that has reported a higher than average number of accidents, then they heavily promote the number of tickets/fines handed out that day for all the infractions found. Got any stats for tickets handed out to people not stopping for pedestrians on streets and/or days not scheduled for special police enforcement events? I repeat: I have never seen the police stop a motorist for not letting someone cross on a non-marked corner, and I have never had a police car stop to let me cross on an non-marked corner.
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:46 PM
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I get annoyed by people crossing in the middle of a block rather than walking down to the nearest intersection*. But it sounds like this person was crossing at an intersection, but took a slightly more direct path to where they were going rather than staying in between the white lines the entire time they were in the street. And you're annoyed because they didn't stay in between the white lines. I don't see what the big deal is. They crossed at an intersection. What does it matter if they're physically in between the lines that mark the crosswalk, or a few feet outside of them?.
At least in Hawaii, there's a legal and social contract about pedestrian crossings.

From the Honolulu Police Department:

"Jaywalking is against the law

Jaywalking is against the law and is punishable by a fine of $130 for pedestrians who don't obey the law in the state of Hawaii.

What is Jaywalking?

Jaywalking is crossing the street outside of a crosswalk or away from a street corner."

Source: http://www.honolulupd.org/informatio...age=pedestrian

Also as I posted above: "(d) No pedestrian shall cross a roadway intersection diagonally unless authorized by official traffic-control devices; and, when authorized to cross diagonally, pedestrians shall cross only in accordance with the official traffic-control devices pertaining to the crossing movements."

Source: https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscu...0291C-0073.htm


Am I being anal, overly sensitive, and too brutal in my choice of topic title, yes. But I just searched and found these articles:

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/...iod-last-year/

"Rae reminds drivers and pedestrians to be safety-minded and to pay attention while on the road, whether on foot, or on wheels.
“We really need to change our behaviors. Both the pedestrian, and the driver.”

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/0...r-pedestrians/

"HONOLULU, Hawaii (HawaiiNewsNow) - A new national report ranks Hawaii as the third most dangerous state for older pedestrians."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...om/3001923002/

"5. State with largest percentage rise in pedestrian deaths from 2017 to 2018: Hawaii (+1800%)"

And these just account for deaths. Non-fatal injuries are multiples of those numbers.

I'll say it again. Pedestrian vs. car, car wins 100% of the time! Pedestrians, please don't increase my chances of being a "winner".

Last edited by lingyi; 11-14-2019 at 02:47 PM.
  #45  
Old 11-14-2019, 02:53 PM
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Yes, Portland has occasionally had "sting" days in which they concentrate on a specific crossing that has reported a higher than average number of accidents, then they heavily promote the number of tickets/fines handed out that day for all the infractions found. Got any stats for tickets handed out to people not stopping for pedestrians on streets and/or days not scheduled for special police enforcement events? I repeat: I have never seen the police stop a motorist for not letting someone cross on a non-marked corner, and I have never had a police car stop to let me cross on an non-marked corner.
Dude, we have MAYBE 1/3 the number of cops normal for a city of our size, I bet you've also never seen cops doing a lot of things cops are supposed to do. Anecdotal sightings of enforcement are a piss poor way to judge the efficacy of a law in this town. Since I drive I will estimate that I see way more pedestrian street crossings featuring vehicles and I can attest that the majority of drivers, assuming they're at least normally aware and diligent, will stop for pedestrians and I have seen cops issuing citations for failure to yield right of way to pedestrians although those are usually in the context of there having been an incident of some sort. I know people who've received failure to yield right of way tickets too. So there you go, my anecdata at least matches and likely outweighs yours.
  #46  
Old 11-14-2019, 03:15 PM
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...I have seen cops issuing citations for failure to yield right of way to pedestrians although those are usually in the context of there having been an incident of some sort.
(bolding mine)
I'll be sure to be involved in an "incident" next time. Thanx for your solution.
  #47  
Old 11-14-2019, 03:33 PM
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I don't drive, don't own a car and have consistently failed securing a licence, but it was always impressed upon me that if you do drive, you are supposed to be and remain the absolute master of your vehicle at all times. It should/must become an extension of your own body, and controlled to the same extent. This includes responses to actors that are not within the expected or lawful range, just as you should be able to prevent a collision if the person walking inches ahead of you on the sidewalk should abruptly stop without warning for no reason that's readily apparent to you.

If you can't timedly stop or divert your vehicle in response to any external stimuli whatsoever, that's on YOU. Drive slower, think ahead more, be more aware.
  #48  
Old 11-14-2019, 04:07 PM
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With all due respect. If you don't drive or have never driven other than as a test, you're in no position to set expectations of drivers.
  #49  
Old 11-14-2019, 06:06 PM
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With all due respect. If you don't drive or have never driven other than as a test, you're in no position to set expectations of drivers.
He wasn't setting expectations. He was merely repeating what he'd learned in drivers ed. You can understand NASA regulations and principles of space travel without ever having piloted a spacecraft.
  #50  
Old 11-14-2019, 06:28 PM
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Ahhh...fair enough. I recant my comment as this seems to be a case of the theoretical versus the reality of the unexpected while driving.
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