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  #301  
Old 10-09-2018, 06:58 PM
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Sorta amusingly, the biggest problem I have at the moment is the stupid meteors causing constant damage to the surface. They're slowly breaking through the upper levels and causing damage I have to repair.

Bunker tiles are impervious to meteor damage but need a lot of steel. And steel needs lime, which needs egg shells--which I am very short of. I want to cover the entire surface with bunker tiles but it'll be a while before I have enough steel to accomplish that.
  #302  
Old 10-10-2018, 05:50 AM
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A few things that people might find interesting:

A design for an automation trigger that slowly turns on and off. I wanted to turn some pumps on for 5 s, then off for 5 s to save power. Can change the duty cycle to whatever.

A design for a gas pump output buffer. Again, I wanted to save power by not running the pumps all the time, but I also wanted to handle peak loads. This splits the output into two gas columns, pumps if either column is empty, but routes the output to the empty one. If both are full then it shuts off. I had to take this approach because the sensors can't tell if a pipe is full because it's backed up, or because I'm in the process of filling it up again.

And finally, a big chunk of my condensation system. Forgot to screenshot the first part, but basically, sour gas comes in at ~30 C, gets cooled to -135 by the 12 thermo regulators, then gets pumped into a coldbox cooled to -160. The sour gas condenses to liquid methane, which I then reexpand into natural gas and pump into the big buffer chambers.
  #303  
Old 10-15-2018, 04:18 AM
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Just a little warning so others don't get bitten the same way I have:

Be very careful about letting regolith "leak" into your base. It falls on the surface, gets crushed into lumps, and sits there--but is very easy for it to drop into crucial locations if you are not careful with excavating. The lumps can also just fly into openings from the meteor explosions.

The problem is that it is hot, and there is a ton of it. Many tons, in fact. I had a pool of water I used for coolant, and at some point I found it was overheating and turning to steam (not so good for cooling...). I investigated and found there was approximately 1600 tons of it sitting in the water--and it had an average temperature of 200+ C! I have my dupes trained up pretty well, and they can carry about 2 tons at a time, but that still took a long time to fix.

The resource tracker says I have 56,000 tons of it laying around. Fortunately, most of it is on the surface, but I still have little piles of it laying around causing heat problems.
  #304  
Old 10-15-2018, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
A few things that people might find interesting:

A design for an automation trigger that slowly turns on and off. I wanted to turn some pumps on for 5 s, then off for 5 s to save power. Can change the duty cycle to whatever.

A design for a gas pump output buffer. Again, I wanted to save power by not running the pumps all the time, but I also wanted to handle peak loads. This splits the output into two gas columns, pumps if either column is empty, but routes the output to the empty one. If both are full then it shuts off. I had to take this approach because the sensors can't tell if a pipe is full because it's backed up, or because I'm in the process of filling it up again.

And finally, a big chunk of my condensation system. Forgot to screenshot the first part, but basically, sour gas comes in at ~30 C, gets cooled to -135 by the 12 thermo regulators, then gets pumped into a coldbox cooled to -160. The sour gas condenses to liquid methane, which I then reexpand into natural gas and pump into the big buffer chambers.
Schematic explanations and images of such systems remind me of programming functions which can be modularly inserted into arbitrary projects. Maybe at some point someone will compile them and make a guide on Steam.


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Just a little warning so others don't get bitten the same way I have:

Be very careful about letting regolith "leak" into your base. It falls on the surface, gets crushed into lumps, and sits there--but is very easy for it to drop into crucial locations if you are not careful with excavating. The lumps can also just fly into openings from the meteor explosions.

The problem is that it is hot, and there is a ton of it. Many tons, in fact. I had a pool of water I used for coolant, and at some point I found it was overheating and turning to steam (not so good for cooling...). I investigated and found there was approximately 1600 tons of it sitting in the water--and it had an average temperature of 200+ C! I have my dupes trained up pretty well, and they can carry about 2 tons at a time, but that still took a long time to fix.

The resource tracker says I have 56,000 tons of it laying around. Fortunately, most of it is on the surface, but I still have little piles of it laying around causing heat problems.
If put into an insulated room, could it be used for power? The 200C temp refers to the water, correct? How hot does regolith itself that hasn't been in water tend to be?
  #305  
Old 10-15-2018, 06:34 AM
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If put into an insulated room, could it be used for power? The 200C temp refers to the water, correct? How hot does regolith itself that hasn't been in water tend to be?
Possibly! I haven't tried it. The steam turbine generator apparently requires 227 C steam. That is possible--"fresh" regolith is around 300 C from what I see. It may well be possible to use it in a generator system.

The only trick is that to move the regolith around, you have to use storage compactors. These will heat their surroundings, but only fairly slowly. It may be hard to get the energy out of them fast enough to be worthwhile. Granite storage (high thermal conductivity), some tempshift plates, maybe a hydrogen heat exchanger--could be possible, though.
  #306  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:19 PM
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One slight bit of amusement:
I had a metal refinery which was constantly breaking the output pipe. I discovered eventually that you can't feed it water over a certain temperature (something like 40 C), because it raises the temperature too much and turns to steam (at least when making steel).

I installed a refinery elsewhere, and sometime after that disassembled the first refinery. It was like a bomb going off! Literally turned the walls to magma and destroyed everything in the vicinity.

After reloading, I looked at the refinery contents to see what was going on. Contents: 12 tons of water at 1700 C. Just... sitting there quietly. I guess that the hot wastewater somehow kept increasing each time I made another batch of steel. I'd like to disassemble it but I can't see how to do it without messing up a significant part of my base. Ideally I'd use the heat for something, but it's so hot that it slags everything.
  #307  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:15 PM
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Looks like the next update on the horizon beefs up the rocketry update even further. I did not look too closely at what's coming so as to not spoil things too badly, but it seems that there will be new fuels for the rockets (such as liquid hydrogen), including some that require oxidizer.

Seems that I should get started on a LOX condenser ASAP. The hydrogen condenser will have to wait since it'll require a compatible coolant (apparently also coming with the update) that stays a gas down to where hydrogen liquifies.

In the meantime, I'm collecting as many wheezeworts as I can. I think I have a couple hundred at this point. Heat is my eternal bane and wheezeworts are the only solution (given that thermo nullifiers are limited). I set up my sour gas condenser to do most of the work via wheezeworts and it's much more efficient now. I have enough spare capacity that I could tap off it in case one of the new rockets can use liquid methane.
  #308  
Old 10-19-2018, 06:05 AM
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New update is out. Glad I collected a bunch of wheezeworts! Rocketry is a lot harder now; you first have to map things out with a telescope, and then the rocket modules require a ton more research, and then the rocket fuels are more difficult.

The savegame update also kinds screwed things up; it created yet more regolith everywhere that I had to clean up, and then deposited little piles of stuff all over the place, including some warm rocks in my methane condenser. So it was evaporating everything right away until the rocks cooled down to -160. Bleh...

On the upside, it does look like there's a ton of cool new stuff to explore and gather, but it'll take a while to get there.
  #309  
Old 10-22-2018, 06:55 PM
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Anyone still playing? Perhaps I'm talking to myself. Wouldn't be the first time.

The new update adds lots of nice features, but boy is it buggy. Two biggies: I can't change the telescope research (after a completed research) without reloading the game, and most of the shipping automation items (like the auto-sweeper) will no longer build at all. Really weird. I can work around the first one but shipping is basically hosed for me with the second (aside from systems I've already built).

The new rocketry stuff is much harder. Space research (the third research type) now comes from bringing back research data from missions, not from the telescope. The telescope is used to discover the new mission targets instead. The baseline rocket is steam powered, and has fairly miserable range, but it's enough to get to the next research tier, which enables solid boosters, and with that petroleum rockets. I thought that maybe my already-built petroleum rocket would still work, but it didn't--it needs oxidizer stages, and I couldn't build those without the research. So I had to deconstruct everything and start from scratch.

All of the rocket types are more difficult than before; steam alone is trickier than petroleum, since I had to build a boiler (fortunately, the hot regolith came in handy here). Solid boosters need oxylite, which can now be made in a new machine (which takes a lot of power). Petroleum rockets also need oxidizer, which can come from oxylite or liquid oxygen. LOX is more efficient but harder to make (my condenser is still pre-chilling). That's all I've done so far; the next stage is hydrogen rockets, but that needs materials that I can only gather from missions.

So there's still plenty to do. I cut one thing close: I had to build a Pacu farm to make egg shells for more steel, but didn't have much algae left. I ran out of algae just after gathering enough for my rocketry needs. But I can get more steel from missions, so I no longer need the farm (plus, I more or less have enough steel for now).

I still don't quite have an infinitely sustainable base--at some point I'll run out of hot magma for turning oil into sour gas. Need to think about that one. It's fine for the next couple thousand cycles, though.

The devs have more or less said that ONI is feature complete, and they'll focus more on fixing bugs and various shortcomings. That seems very reasonable as it's already a pretty huge game in terms of what you can do. Maybe a little too big; the learning curve might be a turn-off for some.
  #310  
Old 10-22-2018, 07:11 PM
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I enjoy your posts although I've taken a break from playing until it's fully released. I figure they intend full release to be around Christmas.

Based on what the devteam said, one of the things they'll focus on is making it fun for beginners. Not everyone goes into a game with the my-first-ten-hours-are-comedic-training KSP mentality.
  #311  
Old 10-22-2018, 07:25 PM
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I’ve never played and feel like I don’t need to. These posts are entertaining enough!
  #312  
Old 10-22-2018, 07:55 PM
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Ok--glad people are reading! I'll continue to write about the latest impending doom that my base is facing. Also, it's the first 100 hours that are training, not the first 10 . I agree that they could stand to make it more beginner-friendly.

I just ran across these little animated shorts--they're pretty cute, and have a couple intriguing "lore" bits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PzqGcL7g1M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRwcg1YW61c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz7kAjqZKGs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brDXdFzKog0
  #313  
Old 10-22-2018, 08:06 PM
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I think I enjoy the early to mid game a lot more than beyond that. After a while everything you want to do becomes complicated and takes forever - everyone is so busy with their random daily chores that it's hard to get anyone out there accomplishing things far from your base. I guess that becomes easier in the late late game once you've got transport tubes and such, but I'm kinda stuck in the middle where I've got to really start doing heat management to stay alive and it takes forever to get anything done.
  #314  
Old 10-22-2018, 08:21 PM
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Heat management is definitely a challenge. Particularly in the new update, where you have to use insulated tiles instead of standard abyssalite tiles.

Have you scoured the whole map for wheezeworts? It's really worth exploring every little corner for them. You should be able to find a dozen or more. They're extremely handy since they require no input resources at all; they just cool down whatever area they're in. They work even better if you can put them in a hydrogen atmosphere.

Regarding inefficient working, I'll repeat MichaelEmouse's trick: build things using the "local" mineral if it doesn't matter. Need a bunch of ladders and tiles through a granite area? You'll have a bunch of granite laying around; the dupes are pretty good about using whatever's nearest.
  #315  
Old 10-25-2018, 04:26 PM
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Does emptying pipes actually work? I've never had to do it before, but I have a pipeline to my electrolyzer full of polluted water. I'm trying to empty it so I can connect a clean water source, but my plumber just sort of walks up to one of them, and his progress bar fills over and over again (sometimes only half way before it starts again) and nothing seems to happen.
  #316  
Old 10-25-2018, 04:29 PM
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Does emptying pipes actually work? I've never had to do it before, but I have a pipeline to my electrolyzer full of polluted water. I'm trying to empty it so I can connect a clean water source, but my plumber just sort of walks up to one of them, and his progress bar fills over and over again (sometimes only half way before it starts again) and nothing seems to happen.
It worked for me in the past. Did you cut the pressure to that section of pipe? If not, emptying a section may simply leave room for the liquid in the previous section so your plumber could be there for a long time.
  #317  
Old 10-25-2018, 04:31 PM
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Aha, yeah, I see what's happening now. It kinda sucks up from the source of the pipe as you empty it, and there was still a way for the dirty water to get in at the end of the pipe. I cut that off, so he should ideally keep pumping it out until that pipe is empty.
  #318  
Old 10-25-2018, 08:10 PM
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I've restarted a couple more times; my latest restart is after reading a guide, and finding so many good ideas (e.g., a system for using only gray water for showers and lavatories and sinks) that I figured it'd be easier to restart than to try to implement all these ideas.

Plus I had things going on like a magma volcano erupting near my sleet wheat fields that looked like they'd end in tears.
  #319  
Old 10-28-2018, 05:37 AM
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Got my liquid oxygen and hydrogen condensers running. They both have more or less the same design: a thermo aquatuner chills "super coolant" (one of the new recipes you can only get from imported materials), which is thermally coupled (via wire bridges) to a chamber that I pump gas into. The aquatuner itself sits in a pool of petroleum, which is circulated through a wheezewort chamber. I have some extra automation to ensure it doesn't overheat or anything.

The LOX condenser works great, recharging a rocket's worth of propellant (2700 kg) in several cycles. The rocket missions last longer than that, so I've never had LOX be a limiter.

The hydrogen condenser is not as good. The problem is this: hydrogen liquifies at around -254 C (technically, the condensation point is -252.2 C, but it needs a little extra in practice). The super coolant freezes at -268 C. And the aquatuner cools by 14 C per cycle. I don't want the coolant to freeze in the pipes, so the incoming coolant has to be no less than -254 C (254+14=268). And then there's the thermal gradient from the bridges, which take a degree or so. So for much of the time, the coolant bath is only barely cooler than what I need. The first part of the cycle is ok at -268 C, but then I have to stop pumping so that it doesn't freeze, waiting for it to warm back up to -254, and so I'm only actually condensing hydrogen for a fraction of the time.

Lowering the freezing point by just a few degrees would really make this a faster process. Maybe there's another method I'm missing, but I'm not seeing it yet. I thought about using liquid hydrogen itself as the coolant, but it freezes at -259 C; even worse than the super coolant. It wouldn't make it through a single pass of the aquatuner.

For now, I'll have to save the hydrogen rockets for rare missions. Fortunately, there are plenty of research points available on the closer targets. I'm not sure yet what materials the far destinations have.
  #320  
Old 10-28-2018, 11:48 PM
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My base is finally 100% sustainable (I think)!

The last non-renewable resource I used was magma. Drop crude oil on magma, generate sour gas, then recondense the gas into methane. Worked well, but magma is a finite resource and I don't have a volcano.

However, the new update adds niobium and thermium (made from niobium and tungsten), with +500 and +900 overheat temps respectively. I can make gas pumps and other machines that survive under high heat. Now I can boil oil directly!

The only trick is that the main liquid heater is the liquid tepidizer, which in theory is only good to 85 C. I needed 538 C. But the tepidizer has a little quirk: it always goes on (for ~5 s) when it first gets power or an automation signal. So I hooked up a little automation circuit to just pulse it every few seconds. It boils the oil into petroleum and then sour gas just fine this way.

The rest of the unit is just a heat exchanger, to preheat the oil and precool the sour gas. Not strictly necessary but saves energy, and with my rocket propellant condensers I'm close to the edge of my energy needs.
  #321  
Old 10-29-2018, 06:27 AM
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The new super coolant makes things easy--almost too easy. My previous sour gas condenser used 9 thermo regulators--7 to pre-chill the sour gas, and then 2 more with a hydrogen loop to do the final condensing. I couldn't condense all at once since the thermo regulators can only go gas->gas without damage.

But the super coolant makes it possible to use a thermo aquatuner instead of regulator. The thermo regulators have a max cooling factor of:
1000 g/s * 14 K * 2.4 J/g-K / 240 W = 140

Whereas the thermo aquatuners can get:
10000 g/s * 14 K * 8.44 J/g-K / 1200 W = 984

So more than 7 times as efficient! And just one has more than enough capacity to cool a full gas pipe of sour gas. In fact the duty cycle is really low.

Cooling it is easy, too, since it can be immersed in water. I have a huge tank of cold polluted water from a slush volcano that I use.

The previous setup used a significant fraction of its own capacity just to power itself; the new one barely registers in the noise.
  #322  
Old 10-29-2018, 11:59 AM
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How much cooling can an aquatuner do? I finally configured my water cooling loop, but the water goes in at about 157f and comes out about 138f. Is that it? That's all an aquatuner does? Do I need like 9 of them in a row to get the water down to a usable temp for crops?
  #323  
Old 10-29-2018, 01:51 PM
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I ran some radiant pipes around the thermo-nullifier and it's much more effective at cooling the liquid as far as I can see than the aquatuner. What, then, is the benefit of running the aquatuner at 1200w?
  #324  
Old 10-29-2018, 02:04 PM
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It's -14 C per loop, but it has a high throughput--it can do that at a pipe's full 10 kg/s. So set up an insulated coldbox with a looped aquatuner on a thermostat (Outside your base! These things get hot) and you should be good.

That said, the nullifier is free cooling, so use that if you have one.
  #325  
Old 10-29-2018, 06:25 PM
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The way I'd do it:
Build an insulated box with around 4x3 internal dimensions. Inside, put a liquid pump, a hydro sensor (second square up), a thermo sensor, and two liquid vents. One of the vents is connected to your water input via a shutoff valve, which is itself connected to the hydro sensor. It's set up to keep a constant water level inside.

The pump goes to a water bridge (using the trick that splitting the output doesn't lead to blocking), with the output square connected three ways:
- to your crops
- to the the thermo aquatuner input port
- to a vent that is placed above the aquatuner

The aquatuner is enabled by the thermo sensor in the main tank. The aquatuner should be built from gold so that it has a 125 C overheat temperature. It sits in its own small tank (3x2), with an open top and a hydro sensor on the bottom. Connect the cooling vent (again, pouring right on top of the aquatuner) to a shutoff, which is itself connected to the hydro sensor, which should be set to a fairly small value--say, 50 kg.

What should happen, if I've got it right, is that when the aquatuner gets over 100 C (still within a healthy range), the water should boil off and open the valve. Cold water will pour on top from the tank and cool it down for another cycle. The hot steam will rise and float away.

The aquatuner will run constantly until the tank is at the proper temperature, and then only periodically to maintain that temperature. You'll use up some water for cooling but there should be plenty for your crops.

I've found that the water temperature basically dominates the crop temperature, so you only need to cool the water to just below what the crops will take. Any lower is basically pointless.
  #326  
Old 10-29-2018, 07:00 PM
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I think you're playing the game at a higher level than I am. My complexity gets as far as like "stop generating power when the batteries are full" or "here's a pipe in a cold area" while you're making home made rocket fuel macguyver style. Still, I should look at some of these in action on youtube and figure it out.

I've settled on simply creating a passive system near the nullifier - a run of radiant pipes coiled around it, lengthening or shortening the amount of pipe until the output temperature is where you want, and then storing the extra water (ideally around like 70f) in a tank in my base. I thought I might go cooler - you don't need cooler water for crops, but if I just dump 40 degree water in a tank in my base, it'll gradually absorb heat and lower the air temp, right?
  #327  
Old 10-29-2018, 07:12 PM
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I think you're playing the game at a higher level than I am.
Impressively so. Hence my suggestion above that *someone* should make a guide on Steam, once the game is fully released, so that others can benefit. I'm sure many other players would learn from it and perhaps the developers themselves would enjoy seeing how sophisticated the gameplay mechanics can get.

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 10-29-2018 at 07:12 PM.
  #328  
Old 10-29-2018, 08:05 PM
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I thought I might go cooler - you don't need cooler water for crops, but if I just dump 40 degree water in a tank in my base, it'll gradually absorb heat and lower the air temp, right?
Yep. You can add some tempshift plates for extra effect, but even without those you'll get decent heat transfer. It helps to give your tank a large surface area by making it wide and shallow. To be clear, though, hot water and cold air still means dead crops. Pump the chilled water through your crops first and then send the remainder to your base storage.

My programmer background gives me a leg up I think, but really most of the stuff I'm going can be broken down into relatively simple subproblems. For the water chiller I described for instance, one component is the water level maintainer. It's just a hydro sensor, a valve, and a vent. If the water level goes below a certain point, the valve opens. Simple as that. The whole thing may have a half-dozen different subsystems, but each one is pretty simple.

Not saying it isn't tricky to wrap your head around breaking problems apart into subcomponents or pushing irrelevant complexity out of mind to focus on one thing... just that I'm not holding the whole thing in my brain all at once, either; I'm just thinking through all the necessary pieces and solving them one by one.

And yeah, maybe I will make a guide once things stabilize a bit. Though I'm always learning better ways of doing things myself! I think I have an idea for my hydrogen problem...
  #329  
Old 10-29-2018, 08:27 PM
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Your posts are fascinating and lovely, Dr. Strangelove, even if I'm playing much more like SenorBeef. I've been reading the hell out of these guides (linking to the early game guide, but there are links therein to a lot more detailed stuff for the midgame).

Part of me feels like it's cheating to just follow someone else's recipe. However, I'm not a programmer at all, and I've decided that building the structures therein--for example, the structure that sets a carbon skimmer under a coal generator to work only when an atmo sensor and a gaseous element sensor connected through an AND logic gate and a time-delay filter give it the go-ahead--is more like a programming tutorial. In theory I'll use some of the ideas I learn from following the guide in my own stuff later on. (I never would have figured how to set up the AND gate on my own).
  #330  
Old 10-30-2018, 12:11 AM
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Glad you enjoy the posts. Hopefully they provide some inspiration without spoiling too much. I'll skim various forums myself, but mostly avoid direct tutorials--often, just knowing that something is possible makes it possible for me to converge on a solution. Still, if you're trying to familiarize yourself with gates, etc., a tutorial is going to be super helpful.

Happy to answer any and all questions, of course. As well as phrasing answers in a requested level of detail (i.e., I'm happy to give out more subtle hints if people don't want direct spoilers).

The most important thing is to experiment, of course! Most of my stuff doesn't work on the first try, or even the third. I can always reload if I get myself into too much trouble.
  #331  
Old 10-30-2018, 06:40 PM
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So I have one wheezewhort seed. I made a flower planter in one of my farms. When I select which seed to plant in it, I see wort seed (1) and bristle seed (18). The "plant" button when the wort seed is selected is grayed out, but I can plant the bristle seed just fine. Does anyone know why this is?
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:15 PM
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Alright, so the seed is in the ice zone still. I order it to be swept at a priority 9, but no one will go get it, even though it's reachable and people are working in the area. I dig up to another wheezewort, uproot it, and the same thing happens - the seed just sits there, and no one will sweep it. Hmm.
  #333  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:53 PM
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Do you have a storage container that is set to accept seeds? I have found that dupes can be very lazy about uprooting/planting seeds at default priority, but usually they're pretty quick when I bump the priority.

Wheezewort needs a flower pot, not a planter box. Make sure it has a 1x3 area to grow in (i.e., no paintings or whatever blocking the top).
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:32 AM
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Ha, I figured it out. I had put a flower pot underneath a ceiling light, giving it 2 squares of space instead of the three it needed. Hence the "plant" button was greyed out for wort, but not for bristle seed, which only needs 2 spaces. And the reason they wouldn't sweep up the seed at priority 9 was because of what you guessed - I had no storage container set to accept it, so they just left it there. That wasn't a factor before, because I just went directly from uprooting it to planting it in a flower pot with no storage container in between. So it took both things going wrong.

Anyway, I'm going to start making plastic, which means setting up an oil refinery. Rather than run power all the way down there, I figured I'd just get a local power plant there to power the refinery and the presses. But you can't use the oil to run a petroleum generator at first, since that seems easy and obvious. You need plastic to build the petroleum generator. Which you only get for already processing crude oil. Which requires another source of power before you get to that point. Minor temporary hassle.

Also, hatches poop out coal, right? I've got a stable with hatches now, but I never see them actually drop coal. How does that work?

Last edited by SenorBeef; 10-31-2018 at 05:35 AM.
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Old 10-31-2018, 06:30 AM
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Yup, the hatches poop coal. You need a critter feeder, though--they need to eat to poop. Make sure it's set to distribute the food your hatches want (minerals, mostly). If you're doing that already... maybe your dupes are just collecting the coal before you notice it. I think they'll preferentially pick it up when supplying your coal generators.
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:05 AM
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On cycle 100 with my latest game, and I've uncovered five geysers. There's natural gas and cool steam, of course. But the remaining three are a hot polluted air geyser, and two infected polluted air geysers. (I also have two thermo nullifiers very near my base).

Those geysers are terrible, right? I've got a gray water reclamation system going, so my water is being preserved--but that cool steam geyser is dormant for 45 cycles. The lack of a water geyser until cycle ~140 has me worried. Sure, I've got plenty of dirty air coming in, which shouldn't be too hard to handle--but I'm not sure that makes up for the crappiness of the geysers.

Think it's worth pushing through, or restarting and hoping for better?
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Anyway, I'm going to start making plastic, which means setting up an oil refinery. Rather than run power all the way down there, I figured I'd just get a local power plant there to power the refinery and the presses. But you can't use the oil to run a petroleum generator at first, since that seems easy and obvious. You need plastic to build the petroleum generator. Which you only get for already processing crude oil. Which requires another source of power before you get to that point. Minor temporary hassle.
That's one of the kinds of problems this game is based on.

Isn't the mouse wheel just the tool for the kind of situation where you need rudimentary power?

I can see the attraction of getting local power but I've much preferred keeping the oil refinery and polymer press close to the living area (with insulation in-between). It means my Dupes can get to them faster. I'll have to run a continuous connection in one form or another from the oil source to the living area anyway.
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Old 10-31-2018, 06:52 PM
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But the remaining three are a hot polluted air geyser, and two infected polluted air geysers.
Ew. Another water geyser, polluted or not, would certainly be handy. I don't have any air geysers on my map. Looking at the geyser stats, the oxygen vents don't even seem that great; a single dupe needs 100 g/s of oxygen and that's about what one vent produces. Hardly seems worth it.

I guess I'd keep looking for the remaining geysers--there should be something like 14 of them, including metal volcanoes. Maybe the remaining ones will be nicer.

To cover the slack periods, make some giant reservoirs. Really big, like 25 units on a side. Just clear out an area, build some walls (insulated if you need; avoid sandstone for liquids), and some pumps at the bottom (make sure they can take the heat). If it's a liquid geyser, just surround the geyser, keeping it at the top. For gas geysers, keep the geyser itself in a separate chamber and pump the gas into the reservoir. That way it can take a full 20 kg/tile instead of the 4ish kg/tile that will shut down the geyser.

Once you get really fancy, you can condense the gases into liquid . I think that might be one of my next efforts; to use liquified gas storage for everything and not need giant chambers for natural gas, etc. But that's overkill even for "early late game". There's plenty of space on the map for reservoirs.
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Old 10-31-2018, 07:58 PM
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What's wrong with sandstone for liquid? I thought the only material differences were listed when you select the materials (thermally reactive, overheat temp, etc).

Are there supposed to be 14 geysers on every map? Because I've explored what is probably half the map on mine and only have one.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 10-31-2018 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:05 PM
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Sandstone leaks. Not sure about gases, but water will leak right through.

There's a list of the "rules" for geyser spawning here. I'm not sure what the minimum count is exactly but you should have several at the least. Look for their bases--they (almost) all have 4 neutronium blocks beneath them. Most of them will be covered by rocks/ice but you'll be able to spot them from the neutronium.
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:42 PM
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Yeah--I tend to explore in straight horizontal or vertical lines out until I see the 4-stone neutronium base, then I "build" some walls around it to highlight its location, then as time permits I explore to the geyser and dig away a block or two at a time until I can see it (I learned this trick after accidentally uncovering a magma volcano on one map and rendering an area uninhabitable). So my polluted oxygen geysers aren't functional right now.

I'm thinking about opening sandbox mode and turning one of them into a slush geyser, given how awesome those are. Cheating? Sure--but if it turns out that the only realistic alternative is restarting again, I might cheat.
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Old 10-31-2018, 09:50 PM
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Just found another geyser. Hydrogen vent.

COME ON ONI!
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:17 AM
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I've depleted an entire biome. I had a slime biome and eventually fed all the algae through my machines, and used a series of algae distillers to consume all the slime. Just left with a puddle of polluted water, some clay on the ground, and a big empty space.

How do you guys go about keeping polymer presses cool? They generate a ton of heat, and eventually they just sort of stew in their own heat and begin to malfunction.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:54 AM
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Just found another geyser. Hydrogen vent.
I wish I had a hydrogen vent. You'll appreciate it when you build hydrogen rockets .

Seriously, hydrogen isn't so bad. Good for power. The temperature kinda sucks, but you might be able to use that to preheat your oil for natural gas production. There are lots of uses!
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:00 AM
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How do you guys go about keeping polymer presses cool? They generate a ton of heat, and eventually they just sort of stew in their own heat and begin to malfunction.
Mostly by not using it very often--but when I was, I stuck a few wheezeworts nearby. I recommend scouring every ice biome for more! They're the most useful item in the game.
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:27 PM
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I wish I had a hydrogen vent. You'll appreciate it when you build hydrogen rockets .

Seriously, hydrogen isn't so bad. Good for power. The temperature kinda sucks, but you might be able to use that to preheat your oil for natural gas production. There are lots of uses!
Good to know. I'm torn between building a massive containment chamber for it now, in order to bank hydrogen for when I need it later, and leaving it mostly buried until I need hydrogen, in order to postpone the massive heat buildup that'll occur when I unearth it.

Will try for a liquid geyser tonight.
  #347  
Old 11-01-2018, 08:37 PM
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I'm torn between building a massive containment chamber for it now, in order to bank hydrogen for when I need it later
That will certainly come in handy--I don't suppose you can employ surrounding abyssalite to insulate yourself from the heat? I did that with one of my natural gas geysers; only had to plug a few key spots with insulated tiles.

If I remember, I'll try to screenshot a door setup (not of my own design) that will give perfectly insulated doors by use of vacuum. It's very handy for any sort of airlock where you need to keep heat in/out. Normally, doors are a big heat conductor that's hard to avoid.

My two least useful geysers are two gold volcanoes. I do want to use their heat for something (more sour gas production, probably), but it's going to be hard to automate. The new autominer might make this possible, though.
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:33 PM
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Oh my god. ANOTHER INFECTIOUS OXYGEN VENT!

Five vents uncovered. Three infectious oxygen, one hot polluted oxygen, one hydrogen. This is bullshit!
  #349  
Old 11-05-2018, 05:09 AM
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Just a quickie tidbit--I didn't invent this one, but I've found it comes in very handy. It's a kind of airlock that is also an insulator. Need a passage from gas storage to normal atmosphere? Or need a chamber that's kept hot or cold but still need access? This does the trick:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1557418323
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1557418338

There are three doors in a row, with the two outer doors sitting on weight plates. The two weight signals are ANDed together and control the middle door.

What happens is that under normal conditions, the middle door is open. It stays open as a dupe walks in one side. But as soon as they pass through the middle, the signal goes low, and it'll close as soon as the dupe clears it. When the outer doors fully close, the middle door opens again.

It's a little tricky to explain but basically, the sequencing of the middle door ensures that it always pulls a vacuum (instead of any surrounding gases). This makes it a heat insulator. It also displaces any gases in the way, making it a good gas seal.

The only problem is that there is a fraction of a second when the middle door is locked, so if one dupe is passing through and another wants to get through, the second one will think the passage is blocked and will do something completely different. So it's not great for high-traffic routes--just for places you need to get to for maintenance but have unusual environmental conditions. The room my screenshot is controlling access to is my new methane condenser (now storing about 20 tons of methane--should be a nice buffer).
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:35 AM
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I'm having the problem again where a dup is coming to my oil refinery, cranking the handle for just a second, and then leaving. I think I figured out last time that I connected the petroleum directly to my petroleum using stations (generator and polymer press), and so the pipes became clogged with petroleum and no more can be pumped in.

But I used an intermediate tank to solve that issue, where the oil refinery goes to dumping the petroleum directly into the tank, and then other things get it from the tank.

So there's no pipe blockage reason for them only to crank out a drop of oil. It's set at priority 9 so they aren't being distracted by other things. It has plenty of power. Does anyone have any ideas?

Last edited by SenorBeef; 11-05-2018 at 09:36 AM.
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