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Old 01-15-2020, 03:15 PM
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Who should I vote for?


I'm a Libertatrian and I voted my party last election. However, its really a wasted vote.
Tell me who would be best on the Democratic side to be the nominee and beat the Republican nominee. Thank you
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Old 01-15-2020, 04:36 PM
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Bloomberg.
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Old 01-15-2020, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SuntanLotion View Post
I'm a Libertatrian and I voted my party last election. However, its really a wasted vote.
Tell me who would be best on the Democratic side to be the nominee and beat the Republican nominee. Thank you
I say Biden has the best chance to beat Trump. Democrats need a strong turnout among African Americans, and Biden seems to be their guy. But your choice is even easier than you might think. (Assuming you aren't talking just about the primary.) Vote for whoever the Dems select. Piece of cake.
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Old 01-15-2020, 05:18 PM
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Vote for whoever you want in the primary, then vote whoever runs the D ticket in November. Not that difficult.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:23 PM
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Are you really in Ohio? God fuckin' help us.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:31 PM
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Biden or Sanders have the best chance to beat Trump. Do you want the moderate old man or the socialist old man to beat the insane old man?
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:32 PM
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Look into my eyes. Stare deeply into my eyes. No, only the first two, not the red ones. Look into my eyes. You are getting sleepy, sleepy, sleepy. Now, you are asleep, or at least open to misuse. Your eyes are closed. Your mind is open. You feel a deep need to scratch your nose. Do it. You feel a deep need to vote for Elizabeth Warren. Do it. Now, open your eyes. Hold your hand out. Try not to quiver. Say aloud, "I will do what's right." Remember that. When I snap my fingers, you will come completely awake, with no drowsiness or hesitation. Remember your needs. SNAP! Okay, satisfy your needs now. That was easy, wasn't it. Good boy.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:45 PM
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Whom.

That is all.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:25 PM
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If you're libertarian, I don't think either candidate will represent your values.

If it is sanders, he will support a lot of redistribution efforts.

If it is Trump, he will support authoritarianism and undermining democracy in various ways (declaring war on the free press, gerrymandering, voter suppression, elimination of balance of powers, etc). Trump is also supported by christian fundamentalists who want to undermine democracy and create a more theocratic state.

Neither candidate is very good for a libertarian. If it is Biden, I'd pick him since he isn't as much into redistribution as Sanders.

Realistically, its going to be either Biden or Sanders. I don't know if Buttijeig or Warren really have a chance at this point, but I could be wrong.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:30 PM
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Vote Quimby!
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It may be because I'm a drooling simpleton with the attention span of a demented gnat, but would you mind explaining everything in words of one syllable. 140 chars max.
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Old 01-16-2020, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
If you're libertarian, I don't think either candidate will represent your values.

If it is sanders, he will support a lot of redistribution efforts.

If it is Trump, he will support authoritarianism and undermining democracy in various ways (declaring war on the free press, gerrymandering, voter suppression, elimination of balance of powers, etc). Trump is also supported by christian fundamentalists who want to undermine democracy and create a more theocratic state.

Neither candidate is very good for a libertarian.
So redistributive policies, within the constitutional framework are equally odious to libertarians as "authoritarianism and undermining democracy in various ways (declaring war on the free press, gerrymandering, voter suppression, elimination of balance of powers, etc)"

America is fucked.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:32 PM
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I think you should vote for Bernie Sanders.

If your first priority is beating Trump, as it certainly should be, that narrows the field down to Biden and Sanders. As a Libertarian, you'll have problems with both of them, but there are issues on which Bernie is significantly better.

Sanders supports marijuana legalization on the Federal level, and more generally opposes harshly punitive drug laws. Biden opposes legalization.

Sanders calls for a non-interventionist foreign policy. Biden comes from the mindset that brought us the Iraq War.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:38 PM
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It's hard to answer without knowing what about libertarianism appeals to you? Simply low taxes? End of drug war? And what do you consider the opposite of libertarianism? I should hope that you might say fascism, in which case one party is led by a fascist which means that you should vote for the Democratic nominee.
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SuntanLotion View Post
I'm a Libertatrian and I voted my party last election. However, its really a wasted vote.
Tell me who would be best on the Democratic side to be the nominee and beat the Republican nominee. Thank you
This country needs a strong third party. And preferably a fourth, and maybe even a fifth. There will never be one if people who are in smaller parties don't vote for their candidates. So I say, if you are a true Libertarian and like your nominee, vote for them, and try to get as many other people to do so as you can.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 01-16-2020 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:22 PM
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That's what I meant, not just a name, but why. I am pondering all that has been said. Most people vote without being fully informed.
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:28 PM
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Vote for whoever you want in the primary, then vote whoever runs the D ticket in November. Not that difficult.

This is the correct answer. Advising which candidate to choose beyond this is pointless. Whomever is the democratic candidate come November is the one you should vote for.
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Old 01-16-2020, 04:18 PM
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It's not going to matter which Dem is elected if they don't also control the senate and decide to do away with the filibuster since nothing will get through congress anyway. I even wonder whether any cabinet appointment will be approved (or even voted on) if Moscow Mitch is still running things. and there will be a new doctrine of no supreme court appointments during the last four years of a president's term.
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Old 01-21-2020, 09:58 PM
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It's not going to matter which Dem is elected if they don't also control the senate and decide to do away with the filibuster since nothing will get through congress anyway. I even wonder whether any cabinet appointment will be approved (or even voted on) if Moscow Mitch is still running things. and there will be a new doctrine of no supreme court appointments during the last four years of a president's term.
How about no Supreme Court appointments approved going forward if the Senate is controlled by a different party than the president? Because I believe that pretty much is the doctrine now, whether people realize it yet or not.

Or maybe this new doctrine only applies when the president is a Democrat and the Senate is controlled by Republicans.
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Old 01-21-2020, 11:02 PM
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This country needs a strong third party. And preferably a fourth, and maybe even a fifth. There will never be one if people who are in smaller parties don't vote for their candidates. So I say, if you are a true Libertarian and like your nominee, vote for them, and try to get as many other people to do so as you can.
I agree with your long-term aim.

However America is currently facing a crisis with a truly awful President.
He is threatening to get re-elected with just a fanatical minority base.
Unless the opposition unites, the country (and the World) will be stuck for another four years.
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Old 01-21-2020, 11:11 PM
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This country needs a strong third party. And preferably a fourth, and maybe even a fifth. There will never be one if people who are in smaller parties don't vote for their candidates. So I say, if you are a true Libertarian and like your nominee, vote for them, and try to get as many other people to do so as you can.
Right now we need Trump out of office. That is a high priority, he is a national disgrace.

Vote 3rd party for lower offices. Build up Congressional seats both state & national.
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:23 AM
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I don't see how voting for Libertarian is wasting your vote if that party matches your ideas.
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:59 AM
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I don't see how voting for Libertarian is wasting your vote if that party matches your ideas.
For real.
You know what actually IS wasting your vote? Voting at all in a solid blue or red state, or in a gerrymandered congressional district. So in that case, the majority of Americans "waste" their vote in every election.
If only Democrats cared as much about electoral reform as they do about the miniscule number of 3rd party voters- whose support they for some strange reason feel enitled to- maybe they would start winning elections again.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:40 PM
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There's a website called I Side With https://www.isidewith.com/, it has a quiz you can take that tells you how much your political views match up with the candidates. As you go along with the quiz it gives you the option to get more information or to go more in depth about each issue. It also asks how important each issue is to you. I found it super helpful. There's a lot of other useful information on the site too.
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:18 PM
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I don't see how voting for Libertarian is wasting your vote if that party matches your ideas.
If your idea is to get rid of Trump, then voting Libertarian is wasting your vote.
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:41 PM
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There's a website called I Side With https://www.isidewith.com/, it has a quiz you can take that tells you how much your political views match up with the candidates. As you go along with the quiz it gives you the option to get more information or to go more in depth about each issue. It also asks how important each issue is to you. I found it super helpful. There's a lot of other useful information on the site too.
Wow. I took it, skipped a few questions, and it said 72 % agreement with Trump and Bloomberg. My answers are diverse; pro life, pro gay, I figured it would be a weird answer. Will take it again only answering more of the questions.
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Old 01-22-2020, 04:29 PM
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Focus on beating Trump. He is the problem. Many people think Biden has the best chance to attract moderates. Could be true. I like Warren best, I think she is intelligent and inspiring and could really bring forth change so I am voting for her in the primary. I think she will present the clearest contrast to everything about Donald Trump. She’s everything he’s not. Compassionate, witty, and he will look awful trying to bully her.

She’s definitely not a libertarian, but at this point does that really matter? Trump’s gotta go.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:08 PM
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I agree with your long-term aim.

However America is currently facing a crisis with a truly awful President.
He is threatening to get re-elected with just a fanatical minority base.
Unless the opposition unites, the country (and the World) will be stuck for another four years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
Right now we need Trump out of office. That is a high priority, he is a national disgrace.

Vote 3rd party for lower offices. Build up Congressional seats both state & national.
I agree wholeheartedly that the best thing for this country vis-a-vis elections is that Trump loses. But here's the thing. It doesn't make one bit of difference in the long run whom SuntanLotion votes for, unless the election literally comes down to one vote. So why not vote your conscience, work to get others to join your party? One can usually find a reason to vote outside one's party in this way. Thus, the third party would never develop.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:37 PM
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I agree wholeheartedly that the best thing for this country vis-a-vis elections is that Trump loses. But here's the thing. It doesn't make one bit of difference in the long run whom SuntanLotion votes for, unless the election literally comes down to one vote. So why not vote your conscience, work to get others to join your party? One can usually find a reason to vote outside one's party in this way. Thus, the third party would never develop.
I would think we have much more of a chance of the GOP breaking into the yeehaw party and the Original GOP than having a third party come in and actually be viable.

I think it would be great for the country if that were to happen. It would dump the "fuck the browns" and religious nuts into one group that had no power, then the adults in the room could actually make sound policy.
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:02 PM
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I agree wholeheartedly that the best thing for this country vis-a-vis elections is that Trump loses. But here's the thing. It doesn't make one bit of difference in the long run whom SuntanLotion votes for, unless the election literally comes down to one vote. So why not vote your conscience, work to get others to join your party? One can usually find a reason to vote outside one's party in this way. Thus, the third party would never develop.
If oneís conscience does not direct every vote to be in favor of the only realistic alternative to whichever Republican is on the ballot (for ANY office) then oneís conscience is defective, and the only ethical course of action is for one to abstain from exercising oneís franchise until this defect has been remedied.
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:36 PM
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Ö It would dump the "fuck the browns" and religious nuts into one group that had no power, then the adults in the room could actually make sound policy.
As much as I detest that attitude, I think the idea that we should box up and shelve segments of the population with respect to governance has been shown to be troublesome. It may, in truth, have factored into us having arrived at this pass.

I am not fond of white-supremacists or must-birthers or military-hawks or drill-nowers or any other of the short-sighted types, but excluding them from the process only makes them angry, frustrated and sometimes genuinely dangerous; then, when the fringers do get a hand on the levers of power, they go crazy and bad things happen.

Which is to say, we need to include everyone, at least nominally, for the sake of stability. And, though they may be stupid or ugly on some issues, they may also have worthwhile ideas on issues outside their weird kink.
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Old 01-22-2020, 07:34 PM
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As I scrolled through this thread, I saw two ads for Pete Buttigieg.

Anyway, William Weld, who was Gary Johnson's running mate on the Libertarian ticket in 2016, is tossing his hat into the Republican ring. Whether he could actually get on the ballot will depend on whether Dumpster is still alive in November. (Don't kid yourselves; he won't be leaving office any other way, besides not being re-elected.)

I'm personally on the fence between Warren and Klobuchar, and no, it's not because they and I are all women. I was a total Feel the Bern-er in 2016, but not this time; every time I see him, he's more bent over and that is NEVER a good sign.

Last edited by nearwildheaven; 01-22-2020 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:05 PM
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I don't rate any of these candidates as A-list worthy. It's a weak field only aided by the utter catastrophe of a president they're pitching to unseat. I'd probably vote for Warren if my primary was tomorrow because while I have some serious questions about how feasible she has been with her plans, I think in the last month tried to broaden her message and less of that my way or the highway scoffing at others. As an educator in her past career, and her work in the Senate, she's got the skill of breaking down information and can connect with different generations too. She scores a few own goals on the campaign trail when people are looking for some personality but retail politics isn't her thing.
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Old 01-23-2020, 11:57 AM
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If your idea is to get rid of Trump, then voting Libertarian is wasting your vote.
One vote can not get rid of Trump unless the state you live in was a dead heat except for your vote and your state was decisive in the electoral college.
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Old 01-23-2020, 01:21 PM
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Well, I'm in Ohio and I took that quiz again and it gave me 79% agreement with Trump. Not sure what I'm doing wrong...I did wonder why there were no Republican challengers.
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Last edited by SuntanLotion; 01-23-2020 at 01:22 PM.
  #35  
Old 01-23-2020, 01:24 PM
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Well, I'm in Ohio and I took that quiz again and it gave me 79% agreement with Trump. Not sure what I'm doing wrong...I did wonder why there were no Republican challengers.
Because the site is set up for a specific reason. Think about this for a minute.
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Old 01-23-2020, 01:43 PM
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I would think we have much more of a chance of the GOP breaking into the yeehaw party and the Original GOP than having a third party come in and actually be viable.
Oh, I agree. I hope to live another 25 years or so. I have no doubt the situation will be much the same then as it is now. Which is a shame, but I wouldn't dissuade others from trying to make a viable third party.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
If one’s conscience does not direct every vote to be in favor of the only realistic alternative to whichever Republican is on the ballot (for ANY office) then one’s conscience is defective, and the only ethical course of action is for one to abstain from exercising one’s franchise until this defect has been remedied.
Well, again, one vote is not relevant in a presidential election, and I would dare say not in 99% of elections in this country. So when someone asks me whom they should vote for, I am inclined to say for the one who most represents their ideas. I'm sure that's what you do, right?
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