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Old 01-22-2020, 01:41 PM
Nars Glinley is offline
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Why didn't Zelensky just announce an investigation?


As is clear from the transcript of the call and the witnesses before the House, President Trump really wanted President Zelensky of Ukraine to announce an investigation of Hunter/Joe Biden and maybe Burisma. Some Democrats have argued, and I tend to agree with them, that an actual investigation into the Bidens wasn't necessary and it was just the announcement of one that Trump was after. In return, Zelensky was to receive a highly coveted meeting with Trump at the White House and military aid to fight the Russians.

Why didn't Zelensky just play along and announce the investigation? Was he so afraid of a potential Biden presidency that he thought it would cause problems down the road? I suppose it's possible that he's so scrupulously honest that any hint of impropriety would be against his moral code, but given the past history of politics in Ukraine, that would be quite the departure from the norm.
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:48 PM
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Because up until the time that Rudy and Trump fucked things up, providing aid to Ukraine was a rare area of bipartisan agreement. For Ukraine to be enlisted in an effort that was obviously a political exercise to assist the re-election of Trump, Ukraine would then risk fracturing the coalition supporting their urgently-needed military assistance. Let's remember, something like 12,000 Ukrainians have been killed in their war with Russia. This is a big fucking deal for them, even though nobody in America seems to get that.

Note that Zelensky literally said at one point that he didn't want to be involved in U.S. politics. Of course he doesn't, because the risks to him are so high.
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Nars Glinley View Post
As is clear from the transcript of the call and the witnesses before the House, President Trump really wanted President Zelensky of Ukraine to announce an investigation of Hunter/Joe Biden and maybe Burisma. Some Democrats have argued, and I tend to agree with them, that an actual investigation into the Bidens wasn't necessary and it was just the announcement of one that Trump was after. In return, Zelensky was to receive a highly coveted meeting with Trump at the White House and military aid to fight the Russians.

Why didn't Zelensky just play along and announce the investigation? Was he so afraid of a potential Biden presidency that he thought it would cause problems down the road? I suppose it's possible that he's so scrupulously honest that any hint of impropriety would be against his moral code, but given the past history of politics in Ukraine, that would be quite the departure from the norm.
Maybe because it sounded wrong, and was a bad thing to do to america who he needed and liked?

He might have had a stronger sense that such annuncement was not a "simple" thing to do and have good outcomes.

He is a new anti corruption president. Maybe he likes his new job and wants to keep his reputation.
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:04 PM
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A CNN interview was planned but cancelled when the beans were spilled and the money came through anyway.
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:00 PM
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Couldn't blame him if he did! Your country's citizens lives are on the line and a crazy motherfucker says eat some shit and they live?

Here's my spoon, here's my grin, mmmmm-Good!
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Old 01-22-2020, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 74westy View Post
A CNN interview was planned but cancelled when the beans were spilled and the money came through anyway.
This. Zelensky was going to make the announcement, but the whistleblower story broke and the scheme came to an abrupt end.

Timeline

Some key events that all happened in the span of four days.

Quote:
September 9, 2019

Atkinson notifies the House and Senate intelligence committees that a whistleblower has filed a complaint, but he does not reveal its contents or substance.
Quote:
September 10, 2019

Trump announces on Twitter that Bolton has resigned.
Quote:
September 11, 2019

The Trump administration releases the Ukraine aid it had been withholding.
Quote:
September 12, 2019

Taylor becomes worried that Zelensky will announce the investigations in a planned CNN interview he learned about from Sondland, as he later testifies. He tries to confirm with Danyliuk that Zelensky won't do such an interview, and Danyliuk confirms. Taylor asks the same question of Yermak, whom he later describes as being "uncomfortable" with the question. But Danyliuk again confirms there would be no CNN interview, Taylor later testifies.
This plan came quite close to succeeding.
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Old 01-22-2020, 04:29 PM
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A CNN interview was planned but cancelled when the beans were spilled and the money came through anyway.
If the announcement was to happen on a network other than CNN I would be inclined to believe it, but it's Fake News CNN!
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Old 01-22-2020, 04:37 PM
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He is a new anti corruption president. Maybe he likes his new job and wants to keep his reputation.
On the one hand, maybe. On the other hand, he seems quite willing to go along with Trump's "THERE WAS NO PRESSURE!!11!!" line so I am skeptical of his truthiness.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:31 PM
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If the announcement was to happen on a network other than CNN I would be inclined to believe it, but it's Fake News CNN!
Adorable.
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Nars Glinley View Post
On the one hand, maybe. On the other hand, he seems quite willing to go along with Trump's "THERE WAS NO PRESSURE!!11!!" line so I am skeptical of his truthiness.
If he was doing it just because he really felt Biden needed investigating, then why isnít he investigating Biden?

And he has constituents too, you know. People that voted for him to clean up corruption. He probably was trying to walk the line between not pissing off Trump and not pissing off his constituents, who donít like to see their country being blackmailed.

I read somewhere that a lot of his voters think he shouldíve stood up more to Trump and are calling him Monica Zelensky.
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:21 PM
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If he was doing it just because he really felt Biden needed investigating, then why isn’t he investigating Biden?

And he has constituents too, you know. People that voted for him to clean up corruption. He probably was trying to walk the line between not pissing off Trump and not pissing off his constituents, who don’t like to see their country being blackmailed.

I read somewhere that a lot of his voters think he should’ve stood up more to Trump and are calling him Monica Zelensky.
And earning the distrust of the next president, whether Biden or anyone else.

This is my Twitter avatar: https://www.axios.com/zelensky-ukrai...77fc4025a.html That's not a man who's feeling no pressure.

Last edited by don't mind me; 01-22-2020 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:35 PM
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One more thing I forgot. There was a not unreasonable fear that Trump was not a trustworthy negotiator (shocking).

September 8, 2019 text from Taylor to Volker and Sondland:

Quote:
The nightmare is they give the interview and don't get the security assistance. The Russians love it. (And I quit.)
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:46 PM
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If he was doing it just because he really felt Biden needed investigating, then why isnít he investigating Biden?

And he has constituents too, you know. People that voted for him to clean up corruption. He probably was trying to walk the line between not pissing off Trump and not pissing off his constituents, who donít like to see their country being blackmailed.

I read somewhere that a lot of his voters think he shouldíve stood up more to Trump and are calling him Monica Zelensky.
I think they just call him Monica Zelensky because itís hilarious.
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:50 PM
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And earning the distrust of the next president, whether Biden or anyone else.

This is my Twitter avatar: https://www.axios.com/zelensky-ukrai...77fc4025a.html That's not a man who's feeling no pressure.
The problem is, though, if he pisses off Trump his country might not exist by the time Bidenorwhoever is inaugurated. I really can't blame him for going along.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:40 PM
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If the announcement was to happen on a network other than CNN I would be inclined to believe it, but it's Fake News CNN!
The whole point was to smear Biden's reputation to likely Democratic or Independent voters. Those people aren't watching Faux "News", I can guarantee it. Any cable news channel except Faux would probably have been acceptable to Trump.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:56 PM
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In one way, Iím puzzled by why Trump even wants an investigation. He can just declare that Hunter Biden is Hillary Clintonís new transsexual devil worshipping communist identity, and most Trump supporters will believe it.

Seriously, what use does Trump have for evidence of anything he is saying? He has about as much need for facts as a raccoon needs a mass spectrometer while he is rooting around in the garbage to the delight of all the other furry scavengers watching.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:56 PM
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If the announcement was to happen on a network other than CNN I would be inclined to believe it, but it's Fake News CNN!
Which is why Trump has sued them for billions of dollars in libel, won it in court since he has full capability of proving them wrong through all of the innumerable documents that chronicle his daily activities, and put them out of business, never to harm the hundreds of millions of American citizens who he has sworn an Oath to defend from frauds and others who would do harm to our citizens.

Yeah?

Last edited by Sage Rat; 01-22-2020 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Nars Glinley View Post
On the one hand, maybe. On the other hand, he seems quite willing to go along with Trump's "THERE WAS NO PRESSURE!!11!!" line so I am skeptical of his truthiness.
I give zelensky a lot of leeway here and he doesn't even need it. He is reciting boilerplate what he needs to say for his country and their international standing. no one blames him for that that I know of, til just now.
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Old 01-23-2020, 08:38 AM
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On the one hand, maybe. On the other hand, he seems quite willing to go along with Trump's "THERE WAS NO PRESSURE!!11!!" line so I am skeptical of his truthiness.
Oh course he's going to go along with it. Trump has shown he'll fuck over Ukraine in order to advance his personal goals. How do you think Trump would react if he threw Trump under the bus?
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Old 01-23-2020, 01:18 PM
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The whole point was to smear Biden's reputation to likely Democratic or Independent voters. Those people aren't watching Faux "News", I can guarantee it. Any cable news channel except Faux would probably have been acceptable to Trump.
Biden's already doing a pretty good job of that himself.
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Old 01-23-2020, 05:17 PM
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Oh course he's going to go along with it. Trump has shown he'll fuck over Ukraine in order to advance his personal goals. How do you think Trump would react if he threw Trump under the bus?
He was also still trying to get invited to the White House, which had been dependent on announcing the investigation. Dangling carrots in the form of personal meetings runs in the family.
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Old 01-24-2020, 10:03 AM
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Zelensky, like every other leader in the world, knows exactly how much a clusterfuck getting involved with Trump is, so he was reluctant to do anything. But he was also in a bind, in that he knew Trump had massive leverage over him. It was a no-win scenario. If he stands up to Trump, he gets on Trump's shit list, and Trump is notoriously petty, and keeps his shit list forever. But, if he gives Trump what he wants, then Trump owns him - and everyone who's ever worked with Trump knows that when you give him what he wants, he turns around and asks for more. Today it is "Announce an investigation into Biden", but it's a certainty that it would end up "Announce that Biden is the most corrupt person ever, and every Democrat in the world is his willing accomplice!"

Zelensky had an impossible choice to make, and lucked out in that he dithered just long enough for the whistleblower to save him.
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