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  #51  
Old 01-01-2020, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RioRico View Post
I note a lack of support for the current POTUS. Perhaps because Dopers and others who civilly seek information here are better educated, more intelligent, and thus lest brainwashed than a large proportion of the population.
We're also total assholes to Trump supporters so most leave or don't speak about it publicly.
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  #52  
Old 01-01-2020, 10:21 PM
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Uh, no. I will be voting Democrat come hell or high water.
  #53  
Old 01-02-2020, 01:35 AM
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We're also total assholes to Trump supporters so most leave or don't speak about it publicly.
Trampsters support a flagrant shitstain on the face of the nation. What's not to like?
  #54  
Old 01-02-2020, 07:43 PM
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I note a lack of support for the current POTUS. Perhaps because Dopers and others who civilly seek information here are better educated, more intelligent, and thus lest brainwashed than a large proportion of the population.

I still read these forums. Mostly to marvel at the increasing level of derangement of the the self-proclaimed “more intelligent”, and to celebrate the demise of an evil, failed philosophy, but I still read them.

Last edited by ChickenLegs; 01-02-2020 at 07:43 PM.
  #55  
Old 01-02-2020, 09:02 PM
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I am voting in IL, but only for federal offices. So I will vote for whoever the Ds put up for president and congressman, but the former will carry the state and the latter lose the congressional district no matter what I do. My wife too.

I really feel Bernie helped lose the 2016 election. With an assist from Comey, who got his reward, didn't he.

The real question for me is who I will vote for in the primary (not the IL primary, but the Global Presidential primary that represents expats like me). I have been following closely and while I like Warren, I think she blew it with her medicare for all. Not that I am opposed, but how do you get there from here. (Very, very slowly and carefully.)
  #56  
Old 01-03-2020, 08:24 AM
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It's quite possible that I could vote third party depending on the eventual Democratic nominee, but I can't see myself voting for Trump currently.
Same here. I don't think that any of the people who supported the debacle in Iraq should be placed in charge of foreign policy, and won't make the mistake of voting for Iraq War supporters again. (And to be clear, voting for the war is the support I'm talking about, coming back after the fact and saying 'oh noes, I'm going to heap meaningless opposition now that I've provided meaningful support' doesn't matter). I voted against my conscience based on the 'lesser of two evils' idea in 2016, and it didn't even help, not going to do it again.

"There is also a chance Saddam will once again miscalculate, that he will misjudge our resolve, and in that event we must be prepared to use force with others if we can, and alone if we must," "Let everyone here be absolutely clear: I supported the resolution to go to war. I am NOT opposed to war to remove weapons of mass destruction from Iraq. I am NOT opposed to war to remove Saddam from those weapons if it comes to that." - Joe Biden sourced from
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/31/polit...tan/index.html
  #57  
Old 01-03-2020, 01:41 PM
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Same here. I don't think that any of the people who supported the debacle in Iraq should be placed in charge of foreign policy, and won't make the mistake of voting for Iraq War supporters again. (And to be clear, voting for the war is the support I'm talking about, coming back after the fact and saying 'oh noes, I'm going to heap meaningless opposition now that I've provided meaningful support' doesn't matter). I voted against my conscience based on the 'lesser of two evils' idea in 2016, and it didn't even help, not going to do it again.
...
Just about everyone voted for it, and pretty much that just eliminates Biden, since other than sanders, no one else has been around long enough to do so.

Basing your vote on a resolution where the President out and out lied to Congress- and they were fooled- is simply wrong.
  #58  
Old 01-03-2020, 02:13 PM
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Just about everyone voted for it, and pretty much that just eliminates Biden, since other than sanders, no one else has been around long enough to do so.
Actually, 23 senators and 113 representatives voted against it, which is not 'just about everyone'. And since I don't accept 'everyone was doing it' as an excuse from children, why would I accept it from a presidential candidate? "Gosh, a lot of us supported this complete and utter failure of foreign policy, therefore it would be meany-pants of you to hold any of us accountable for it" just doesn't work.

Quote:
Basing your vote on a resolution where the President out and out lied to Congress- and they were fooled- is simply wrong.
Basing my vote on whether a Senator was foolish enough to support the biggest military debacle the US has engaged in in my lifetime is completely and utterly reasonable. Congress has broad power to investigate potential legislation and to access and evaluate classified information. If a Senator chooses to just rubber-stamp presidential decisions, then they're failing to do the job they were elected to do. If, as I think is more likely, they were fine with the war until it turned out to not be an easy victory, and are just using 'oh, the president LIED' to try to wash their hands of the decision, I don't accept that crying after the fact dissolves responsibility in the first place.

Also, politicians flat out lying is as old as politicians existing. If someone is naive enough to believe that politicians don't lie, they're not qualified for any elective office above dog catcher, much less President. Also the lying about WMD isn't what led to the Iraq war being a debacle, it was the complete lack of a plan for winning anything other than the short, quick military phase. Refusing to vote for the authorization until it included measures to actually win the war (rather than win some battles, depose Hussein, and leave a mess) was perfectly possible.
  #59  
Old 01-03-2020, 02:38 PM
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Won't vote for Trump under any circumstances. May vote for Biden, Gabbert, Yang or Williamson. Bur because I live in a sure fire read state, I'll probably vote for a third party candidate.
  #60  
Old 01-03-2020, 03:49 PM
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I'd rather pound my testicles flat with a wooden hammer than vote for Trump.

Hey, MEBuckner, any chance you'd be willing to share that cabin with me and Girl Wonder? We can both cook, and have been EMTs, so we're occasionally useful. And she tries not to eat meat, so she won't make too big a dent in your canned good. Plus, she weighs like 98 pounds and can shoot game. We live in a red state, too (Kentucky, so we have to endure Mitch McConnell more than most people do), and would love the escape.
A commune probably would have a better shot of it than just some cranky old late middle-aged OK, old guy all by himself.

We can sleep in shifts and take turns fending off the hordes of zombies, Trump supporters, and zombie Trump supporters.
  #61  
Old 01-03-2020, 04:12 PM
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I won't waste my time, one way or another. In my state, my vote is like a warm, flat Coors Light. Worthless.
  #62  
Old 01-03-2020, 05:17 PM
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Donald Trump and the current Republican Party are a clear and present danger to the entire planet.

I will vote for the Democratic nominee if I am breathing on the day the ballots arrive by mail.

I will not apply a purity test to that nominee. I will never agree with anyone on everything--hell, I don't agree with myself on everything from day to day.

I will not disqualify anyone based on a mistake they made in the past (that does not involve grievous bodily harm, rape or child molestation), as long as they appear to have made a best effort to learn from that mistake and make different personal and political decisions since.

I recognize that--barring an *actual* revolution that completely changes the legal framework of our system of government--we live in a quasi-parliamentary system where the party is more important than the individual once we get to the general election, and first-past-the-post district voting means third parties are relevant only as spoilers. The Dem platform is closer to what I want, as the next town is closer to me than Alpha Centauri, so they get my vote.
  #63  
Old 01-03-2020, 07:14 PM
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But what this century has taught me is how very, very important it is to vote Democratic on all the state and local races as well. I used to just ignore them, because the names meant nothing to me, but what the state-level Republicans are doing with gerrymandering, voter suppression, environmental regulations, etc., and what McConnell has been able to do with a small majority in the Senate with judicial appointments and bill suppression, is far worse and longer lasting than anything the tweeting Cheeto has done.
How do we get that across to people? That while it isn't as high profile as the race for the presidency, because of the checks and balances and interdependencies and shared power, it really does matter who your state representative is and you really do need to pay some attention and vote thoughtfully for that person.


Also, I have a difficult time imagining voting for anyone other than the democratic nominee (whoever it is) under any normal and the vast majority of extra-normal circumstances.

Last edited by amarinth; 01-03-2020 at 07:14 PM.
  #64  
Old 01-04-2020, 02:55 AM
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I won't waste my time, one way or another. In my state, my vote is like a warm, flat Coors Light. Worthless.
Guess who loves you? Them who will cast your votes for you, in ways you won't like. I'm in solid-red congressional and legislative districts but I vote anyway so the assholes don't gain unanimous victories. Never give a inch!
  #65  
Old 01-10-2020, 06:29 PM
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Former Republican here. Never again.

I'll probably vote Warren in the primaries. Unless there's a reasonable Republican contender, in which case I may just vote against Trump in the R primary.

I will be voting D for president in the general election, not that it matters much in my state. No way in hell I'd vote Republican, 3rd party, or abstain.

For all the other races, I'll compare all the candidates at vote411.org and make each selection with a very heavy anti-R bias.
  #66  
Old 01-10-2020, 06:34 PM
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Not me. Getting that corrupt bastard out of power is the number one most important issue of this election, as far as I'm concerned. I'd vote for a dead dog before Trump.
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  #67  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:16 PM
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I think this has been asked before actually. I’m a former Republican who left the party over Trump’s nomination. I still consider myself a classic conservative. I will vote for any Democrat other than Bernie Sanders, if he is nominated I’ll vote for Trump—with regret.
  #68  
Old 01-16-2020, 01:08 PM
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The thing is that there is now not only a very public feud between Bernie and Warren, but that this feud will trickle down to their respective supporters as well. Obama has already decreed that he will "step in" if it looks like Bernie is going to win the nomination. (Bernie supporters are shaking in their boots!) If angry Bernie supporters see their candidate get pushed aside again like in 2016, there is no way they will come out and vote for Warren in the General Election. Without the large and enthusiastic block of Bernie supporters voting for Warren, Democrats have no chance of denying President Trump another four years in Office and his appointing at least 2 or more Supreme Court Justices.
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  #69  
Old 01-16-2020, 02:06 PM
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.... Obama has already decreed that he will "step in" if it looks like Bernie is going to win the nomination. ...
Cite? I beleive this was debunked.
  #70  
Old 01-16-2020, 02:25 PM
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The thing is that there is now not only a very public feud between Bernie and Warren, but that this feud will trickle down to their respective supporters as well. Obama has already decreed that he will "step in" if it looks like Bernie is going to win the nomination. (Bernie supporters are shaking in their boots!) If angry Bernie supporters see their candidate get pushed aside again like in 2016, there is no way they will come out and vote for Warren in the General Election. Without the large and enthusiastic block of Bernie supporters voting for Warren, Democrats have no chance of denying President Trump another four years in Office and his appointing at least 2 or more Supreme Court Justices.
Does "pushed aside" mean the same as "not get the nomination?"

(To answer the OP's question: I'm not a huge fan of either Warren or Sanders, but would happily vote for either if they get the nomination.) Other than Roy Moore, I can't think of another person in America that would cause me to cast a vote for Trump or refrain from voting.
  #71  
Old 01-16-2020, 02:31 PM
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Other than Roy Moore, I can't think of another person in America that would cause me to cast a vote for Trump or refrain from voting.
Stephen Miller.
  #72  
Old 01-16-2020, 02:37 PM
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I’ll vote for whoever gets the Democratic nomination. I think ridding the country of Trump is important.

And, for the first time in a long time, I’ll feel like my vote counts. I recently moved from a deep blue state to a swing state,
  #73  
Old 01-16-2020, 02:41 PM
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Blue, no matter who. Even if it's Tulsi Gabbard.

The Republican party needs to go out into the desert for a few elections to think about where they went wrong in supporting Trump so thoroughly.
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  #74  
Old 01-16-2020, 02:46 PM
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I will likely vote independent, but that's basically throwing my vote away.
  #75  
Old 01-16-2020, 02:48 PM
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We're also total assholes to Trump supporters so most leave or don't speak about it publicly.
People who voted for Donald Trump deserve to get treated like people who would vote for Donald Trump.
  #76  
Old 01-16-2020, 03:06 PM
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Blue, no matter who. Even if it's Tulsi Gabbard.

The Republican party needs to go out into the desert for a few elections to think about where they went wrong in supporting Trump so thoroughly.
Gabbard might give me pause. I don't think she's any better than Trump, and it might as well be Republicans who take the blame for destroying the country as it is clearly mostly their fault.
  #77  
Old 01-16-2020, 03:50 PM
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Cite? I beleive this was debunked.
But HuffPo caught a second tidbit from journalist Ryan Lizza’s extensive expose on the former president’s mostly covert involvement in the 2020 selection process: Obama will step in and even “raise his voice” if necessary to keep the party from nominating Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT).

https://www.dailywire.com/news/repor...ce=parsely-api

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/obama...hE3-542oXEhReO

https://www.aol.com/article/news/201...port/23868368/
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  #78  
Old 01-16-2020, 04:01 PM
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Does "pushed aside" mean the same as "not get the nomination?"
"pushed aside" does not mean "not get the nomination". She and "her" DNC cheated, plain and simple.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/u...s-clinton.html

https://observer.com/2016/07/wikilea...ned-democracy/

https://www.newsweek.com/clinton-rob...brazile-699421
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  #79  
Old 01-16-2020, 04:43 PM
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So I’m just curious, if the DNC didn’t do those nefarious things would Bernie have magically increased his support with black voters in the South by the 30 or 40% margin he’d have needed to have won the nomination in 2016? I don’t really see it as being productive to relitigate 2016.

The claims about Obama “stepping in”, if you actually dig into them seem horribly sourced. Shit like “a former Obama adviser *thinks* Obama feels this way and *suspects* Obama would do X, Y and Z.” That just reads like far leftie scaremongering to me.

Last edited by Martin Hyde; 01-16-2020 at 04:43 PM.
  #80  
Old 01-16-2020, 05:54 PM
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from your "cite," an unnamed advisor (not Obama) said “if Bernie were running away with it, I think maybe we would all have to say something.”

That is considerably less than Obama saying he will do something. That is some guy who claims to have some contact with the president conjecturing that Obama might have have a thought, "maybe." There's a big gulf between the characterization of the cite and the cite itself.
  #81  
Old 01-28-2020, 04:46 PM
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Not in a million years. I'd vote for a maggot-ridden porcupine before I'd ever vote for Donald "Jenius" Drumpf or anybody else like him for Prez.
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