View Poll Results: Who would you rather see win the opposing party's primary?
I want the "safer" opponent who stands a greater chance of winning the election 14 77.78%
I want the "dangerous" opponent who stands a lesser chance of winning the election 4 22.22%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:52 AM
Velocity is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 16,585

Opponent: Greater damage, but less likelihood of getting elected, or vice versa?


Back in 2016, there were some Democrats who were supporting Trump in the Republican primaries because they wanted Hillary to face off against him in the general election - that even though they knew he would represented greater damage if elected, that he stood a lesser chance of winning the election - a calculated bet.

That didn't work out, but there are some Republicans supporting Bernie nowadays for the same reason - they see him as greater damage if elected, but less chance of winning the election, hence a sensible bet.

Given the choice of facing a tamer opponent (if you're a Democrat, then, say, Mitt Romney) who in this hypothetical stands a higher chance of winning, or a more dangerous foe (Trump) who stands a lesser chance of winning, which would you prefer?

(If you are Republican, then maybe you can substitute someone like Joe Biden as the less harmful centrist, as opposed to more dangerous foes such as Bernie or someone like AOC when she hits presidential-eligibility age.)

Last edited by Velocity; 02-05-2020 at 03:54 AM.
  #2  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:56 AM
MEBuckner's Avatar
MEBuckner is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Posts: 12,334
I think wanting the Other Side's more "dangerous" (but allegedly easier to beat) nominee as your party's opponent is a reckless and irresponsible attitude to have.

I don't accept that Bernie Sanders is really the Democratic Party's equivalent of Trump--in terms of his basic integrity and character he's vastly better than the narcissistic bigoted demagogue we've got now--but if you truly and sincerely believe that one possible nominee from the party you don't support would somehow be a danger to the country, you damned well should want a thing like that stopped sooner rather than later.
__________________
"In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves." -- Carl Sagan

Ceterum censeo imperium Trumpi esse delendam
  #3  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:07 AM
MEBuckner's Avatar
MEBuckner is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Posts: 12,334
And sorry for the double post, but this is hardly some abstract hypothetical scenario here. We aren't on the timeline where we're all sitting around lamenting President Jeb Bush's big tax cuts for the ultra-rich and his Federalist Society judicial picks, and saying "Boy, if only the Republicans had (somehow!) nominated Donald Trump! Ha, can you imagine that?!? Boy, Hillary would have been able to beat him easily!"

We live in the alternate reality where Mr. Spock has the goatee, and we're all in the agony booth. Be careful what you wish vote for, because it might come true get elected.
  #4  
Old 02-05-2020, 08:56 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 40,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEBuckner View Post
And sorry for the double post, but this is hardly some abstract hypothetical scenario here. We aren't on the timeline where we're all sitting around lamenting President Jeb Bush's big tax cuts for the ultra-rich and his Federalist Society judicial picks, and saying "Boy, if only the Republicans had (somehow!) nominated Donald Trump! Ha, can you imagine that?!? Boy, Hillary would have been able to beat him easily!"

We live in the alternate reality where Mr. Spock has the goatee, and we're all in the agony booth. Be careful what you wish vote for, because it might come true get elected.
This.

And I'm old enough to remember when Dems said the same thing about Reagan.
  #5  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:21 AM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 15,740
In one of Bill Clinton’s books he mentions he was happy that Bob Dole got the nomination against him in 1996. Clinton knew there was always a chance he could lose but the country would be in good hands with Dole as President
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His

Last edited by dalej42; 02-05-2020 at 09:22 AM.
  #6  
Old 02-05-2020, 10:16 AM
Velocity is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 16,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEBuckner View Post
I don't accept that Bernie Sanders is really the Democratic Party's equivalent of Trump--in terms of his basic integrity and character he's vastly better than the narcissistic bigoted demagogue we've got now--but if you truly and sincerely believe that one possible nominee from the party you don't support would somehow be a danger to the country, you damned well should want a thing like that stopped sooner rather than later.
Right - I don't mean that Bernie is equivalent to Trump in character, but in terms of what he would represent, to a conservative, if elected - he is considerably further to the left than Biden.
  #7  
Old 02-05-2020, 10:20 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,831
Would a President Cruz or President Rubio have been much better than President Trump? We'd have still seen the right-wing judges, and probably the massive tax cut. They probably wouldn't have stolen a few billion from the public treasury as Trump has done, but that's "small potatoes" in the big picture.

True, they wouldn't have embraced and enabled dictators like Putin and MBS, while rejecting America's real allies, but did anyone predict that would happen? I think the Senate is as much to blame: If 53 adults watch on and encourage a 2-year old brat to throw a destructive tantrum, who is really at fault?
  #8  
Old 02-05-2020, 10:27 AM
BobLibDem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Home 07 NCAA HockeyChamps
Posts: 22,060
I don't think Cruz or Rubio would have knelt before Putin. They wouldn't be undermining NATO and they wouldn't have started a pointless trade war. With any Republican, you're going to get right wing judges and tax cuts for the wealthy. But you wouldn't get someone who antagonizes career diplomats and their military advisors or who admires dictators.
  #9  
Old 02-05-2020, 12:40 PM
Ashtura is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,621
The one who is less likely to win, but with a caveat. If the dangerous one likely would have the same party in the house and senate, I would not want them period.

As long as the checks and balances still exist, danger is is tempered somewhat.
  #10  
Old 02-05-2020, 12:54 PM
The wind of my soul is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 2,041
Velocity, when you refer to Democrats "supporting" Trump in the OP, or Republicans "supporting" Bernie, what do you mean by the word support?
  #11  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:01 PM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 15,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Would a President Cruz or President Rubio have been much better than President Trump? We'd have still seen the right-wing judges, and probably the massive tax cut. They probably wouldn't have stolen a few billion from the public treasury as Trump has done, but that's "small potatoes" in the big picture.

True, they wouldn't have embraced and enabled dictators like Putin and MBS, while rejecting America's real allies, but did anyone predict that would happen? I think the Senate is as much to blame: If 53 adults watch on and encourage a 2-year old brat to throw a destructive tantrum, who is really at fault?
They would have had the same horrible policies but they wouldn’t be launching trade wars over Twitter. In some jobs, being on Twitter at work gets you fired. Working the night shift on the commodities trading desk, it’s an essential job requirement.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #12  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:19 PM
Velocity is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 16,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by The wind of my soul View Post
Velocity, when you refer to Democrats "supporting" Trump in the OP, or Republicans "supporting" Bernie, what do you mean by the word support?
Could be anywhere from merely rooting for a candidate inwardly, to supporting on social media, to the way the GOP has outright urged its voters to vote for Bernie in the Democratic primaries.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017