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  #151  
Old 01-29-2020, 02:21 PM
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Is there something akin to an artificial horizon in a helicopter whereby it can tell you if you're going up or forward-down?
Yes. And this heli, while perhaps not completely state-of-the-art, was a well-equipped fairly high-end machine. But it still requires skill and practice to fly using these instruments. For most operational purposes, helicopters pilots tend to fly visually most of the time.
  #152  
Old 01-29-2020, 04:15 PM
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So, based on the review we've done, it sounds like it is entirely possible that nobody on the flight, except the pilot, knew anything was ever amiss. And even the pilot may have just thought that he was disoriented, but could get out of it with a few maneuvers. Meaning, nobody thought they were going to die before they crash landed - they were just belted in, shooting the shit, maybe in mid sentence, when life ended in a violent collision. I guess that is marginally better than being terrified in the seconds before your life ends, but not by much.
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Old 01-29-2020, 05:55 PM
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Yep, that's about it.

At most there might have been a half minute of "what the heck?" or fear, but yeah, that's about right.
  #154  
Old 01-29-2020, 06:37 PM
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I'm not sure "impress" would be it, so much as "don't want to look bad." He might not be in a race to get to the destination, but he doesn't want to be like, "I gotta admit fault, things aren't so well, I got to pause, hover, maybe even land us temporarily or re-route to a different place." Mamba could easily fire him and hire another pilot then, even if this pilot would have been doing the frustrating but right thing.
I can't see Kobe (or anyone) firing the pilot. Pilot: "Sorry I got you to the basketball practice late, but the weather conditions were really hazardous and was only thinking about safety, especially with your daughter aboard." If anything, Kobe would have given him a bonus for getting his daughter and everyone else to the destination safely under very dangerous conditions.
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  #155  
Old 01-29-2020, 08:02 PM
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At first I thought he accidentally wandered off 101 onto Las Virgenes RD but he may have turned onto Las Virgenes Rd thinking it was Lost Hills Rd. He's flown this route before and knows there's a small community off of Lost Hills which represents relatively flat terrain. This would be a good spot to turn around and pick up 101 again. Visually he would have seen houses off to the right which reinforced a believe he was turning at the Lost Hills exit. But if he's turning on Las Virgenes then the houses off to the right are up against hills on the left.

I still don't understand how this happens with the instrumentation he had on board. The news talked about the helicopter not having a TAWS (Terrain Avoidance and Warning System) but he did have a GPS equivalent according to reports. He had software that allowed him to fly with terrain visual references and warnings as well as a map display with major roads.

It was certainly a glass cockpit (flat screens that replace individual gauges). He would have had large screen views of whatever he wanted to see.
  #156  
Old 01-29-2020, 09:53 PM
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I can't see Kobe (or anyone) firing the pilot.
He was Kobe's preferred pilot, but he didn't work for Kobe but rather for a charter company. Apparently he took over the gig in 2016 after Kobe's previous favorite left the company. At least from that article he seems both experienced and not at all reckless. He also flew Kawhi Leonard around regularly as well, after Kobe sold Kawhi on the benefits of helicopter commuting.
  #157  
Old 01-30-2020, 10:20 AM
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Vanessa Bryant breaks her silence
  #158  
Old 01-31-2020, 04:34 AM
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A new bit of information - Apparently the charter company was not certified for IFR flight What that means, apparently, is that although the pilot was qualified and the helicopter had the equipment for it the company under whose auspices the flight took place was not allowed to fly passengers under IFR flight plans in IFR conditions. I'm guessing that also means the instrumentation was not maintained/certified for IFR flight (instruments used for IFR flight must be highly accurate and undergo testing and maintenance more often than those used for VFR flight).

Well, that starts to explain some things....
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:18 AM
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The part about asking for support for the other families who lost loved ones is classy. It's easy for grief to make one selfish, or at least only to think about your own loss.

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Old 01-31-2020, 10:01 PM
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First Laker game since crash starting in LA now. Depressing.
  #161  
Old 01-31-2020, 10:44 PM
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A new bit of information - Apparently the charter company was not certified for IFR flight What that means, apparently, is that although the pilot was qualified and the helicopter had the equipment for it the company under whose auspices the flight took place was not allowed to fly passengers under IFR flight plans in IFR conditions. I'm guessing that also means the instrumentation was not maintained/certified for IFR flight (instruments used for IFR flight must be highly accurate and undergo testing and maintenance more often than those used for VFR flight).

Well, that starts to explain some things....
I learned something new. helicopters operate under different visual flight rules. So it wasn't necessarily illegal until he got caught up in the clouds. I think it goes against common sense but I guess it's based on the idea that helicopters can just set it down in an emergency versus what a fixed wing plane can do. So their minimum visual requirements are lower.

If "everybody knows" none of the local helicopter operators can fly IFR then that puts a lot of pressure on the pilot to avoid doing this. By flying up through the clouds their own aircraft transmits altitude information to radar operators. Busted.
  #162  
Old 02-01-2020, 12:01 AM
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If "everybody knows" none of the local helicopter operators can fly IFR then that puts a lot of pressure on the pilot to avoid doing this. By flying up through the clouds their own aircraft transmits altitude information to radar operators. Busted.
IFR flights require a flight plan. So an unplanned transition of a VFR flight to IFR for emergency reasons would have administrative consequences even if the operator were certified for IFR ops.

In any event, being "busted" through transponder information is not really a consideration. You'd subsequently need to fly an instrument approach somewhere, and it's not plausible that you'd try to sneak around in controlled airspace and hope nobody noticed. You'd certainly immediately contact a controller as soon as you went IFR. There would be a subsequent investigation into the circumstances, and there might be some consequences, depending how foolish your original plan was given the weather. But I don't think you'd lose your license or anything - it would be a foolish precedent for the FAA to set to penalize someone too harshly for taking the safest course of action under difficult circumstances. Although I guess the operator could fire you, who knows.

If it happened repeatedly, of course that's a different matter, and could have more serious consequences, probably as much for the operator as the pilot. So it's probably true that to some extent the fact the operator is not certified for IFR ops might have weighed on the pilot's decision making.

Last edited by Riemann; 02-01-2020 at 12:06 AM.
  #163  
Old 02-01-2020, 12:09 AM
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Asking with no agenda, except that I don't know:

Are flight plans approved by the FAA or just filed with the FAA? If the former, doesn't the FAA have access to the same met reports the pilot does?

Wouldn't somebody say, "Uhhh...dude, about your VFR flight plan. Met says clouds down to 800 and less than 2 miles visibility. So, IFR or Uber, your call."
  #164  
Old 02-01-2020, 02:51 AM
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while you can file a VFR flight plan you don't have to. You would do that for flight following if you needed it. Normally you file from point A to point B. With modern GPS navigation the traditional routes along VOR beacons (Very High Frequency Omni-Directional Range) is pointless.

I'm trying to imagine someone filing a flight plan for route 5 to rt 101 and getting off at exit 47A.

Last edited by Magiver; 02-01-2020 at 02:52 AM.
  #165  
Old 02-01-2020, 03:06 AM
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IFR flights require a flight plan. So an unplanned transition of a VFR flight to IFR for emergency reasons would have administrative consequences even if the operator were certified for IFR ops.

In any event, being "busted" through transponder information is not really a consideration. You'd subsequently need to fly an instrument approach somewhere, and it's not plausible that you'd try to sneak around in controlled airspace and hope nobody noticed. You'd certainly immediately contact a controller as soon as you went IFR. There would be a subsequent investigation into the circumstances, and there might be some consequences, depending how foolish your original plan was given the weather. But I don't think you'd lose your license or anything - it would be a foolish precedent for the FAA to set to penalize someone too harshly for taking the safest course of action under difficult circumstances. Although I guess the operator could fire you, who knows.

If it happened repeatedly, of course that's a different matter, and could have more serious consequences, probably as much for the operator as the pilot. So it's probably true that to some extent the fact the operator is not certified for IFR ops might have weighed on the pilot's decision making.
I agree it would be foolish to penalize someone harshly for taking the safest course. it's the the flight leading up to it that gets called into question.

I think most pilots have had weather bite them in the ass. It's what you do when it happens that gets called into question.
  #166  
Old 02-01-2020, 04:46 AM
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I learned something new. helicopters operate under different visual flight rules. So it wasn't necessarily illegal until he got caught up in the clouds. I think it goes against common sense but I guess it's based on the idea that helicopters can just set it down in an emergency versus what a fixed wing plane can do. So their minimum visual requirements are lower.
It's also because helicopters don't have a minimum forward speed to keep flying. One reason for the visibility minimums is to give pilots time to react to obstacles in their path. If you're flying along at 200 kph you have extremely little time to react to something coming into view in the fog. If you can move at 10 kph you have more time to see and react.

Then again, in this accident the helicopter was moving pretty fast, comparable to fixed-wing speeds. That didn't help.

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If "everybody knows" none of the local helicopter operators can fly IFR then that puts a lot of pressure on the pilot to avoid doing this. By flying up through the clouds their own aircraft transmits altitude information to radar operators. Busted.
On top of which, there seems to be a great institutional resistance to declaring an emergency - which finding yourself IFR while flying VFR actually is - which would allow a pilot to do just that - fly up through clouds to clear air. Of course, there may be consequences to that, such as having to explain how you got into that situation in the first place, but that's got to hurt less than slamming into a hillside.

This is a situation where doing the legal thing - flying SVFR - is the bad thing to do from the viewpoint of desirable outcomes and doing the illegal thing - busting up through the cloud cover, that is, temporary IFR conditions to get to actual VFR conditions - is actually the safer option. Which is not to say that's completely safe, since after all the pilot wouldn't be able to see what's above him. But while there might be a passing airplane above him there is definitely ground under/near him.
  #167  
Old 02-01-2020, 04:52 AM
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Asking with no agenda, except that I don't know:

Are flight plans approved by the FAA or just filed with the FAA? If the former, doesn't the FAA have access to the same met reports the pilot does?
Just filed. There's no one looking over a pilot's shoulder on those, it is the pilot's responsibility to plan a safe flight. Sure, after an accident or incident the FAA or NTSB will look up the weather records.

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IWouldn't somebody say, "Uhhh...dude, about your VFR flight plan. Met says clouds down to 800 and less than 2 miles visibility. So, IFR or Uber, your call."
No one is telling pilots "IFR or Uber". Pilots fly aircraft, not ATC. ATC will tell you "VFR flight is not advised at this time" but that's the extent of it.
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:31 AM
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Thanks, all! Ignorance fought.
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Old 02-02-2020, 09:28 AM
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hope Jesus does not return soon because he will get second billing on the news to Kobe
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Old 02-03-2020, 10:24 PM
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One thing I just read was that Kobe Bryant won an Oscar. For a surprising category: Best Animated Short Film.

Anyway, the article said that Bryant was not only the first former professional athlete to win an Oscar but the first to ever be nominated. I find that surprising and a little hard to believe. Surely there must have been some other professional athlete who went on to a successful enough career in film to have been nominated?
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Old 02-03-2020, 10:46 PM
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I was thinking Burt Reynolds, who was nominated for Boogie nights. But thinking deeper about it he never made the pros in football, it was his character in the Longest Yard who had a short Pro career, getting me confused.
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:03 PM
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while you can file a VFR flight plan you don't have to. You would do that for flight following if you needed it. Normally you file from point A to point B. With modern GPS navigation the traditional routes along VOR beacons (Very High Frequency Omni-Directional Range) is pointless.

I'm trying to imagine someone filing a flight plan for route 5 to rt 101 and getting off at exit 47A.
You don't need a VFR flight plan for flight following, and as far as I know ATC doesn't even see VFR flight plans. They're very nearly useless. Their only purpose is that, if you open your flight plan and fail to close it within about an hour of your filed ETA, search and rescue will start looking for you along the route you filed.
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:03 PM
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One thing I just read was that Kobe Bryant won an Oscar. For a surprising category: Best Animated Short Film.

Anyway, the article said that Bryant was not only the first former professional athlete to win an Oscar but the first to ever be nominated. I find that surprising and a little hard to believe. Surely there must have been some other professional athlete who went on to a successful enough career in film to have been nominated?
If country swim shows and endorsements count for "professional", then not even Tarzan (Johnny Weissmuller) did it.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 02-03-2020 at 11:07 PM.
  #174  
Old 02-03-2020, 11:19 PM
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I saw a FB post today with Kobe being interviewed in Italian. He speaks fluent Italian. Who knew?
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:50 PM
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I saw a FB post today with Kobe being interviewed in Italian. He speaks fluent Italian. Who knew?
He lived in Italy for 7 years.
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Old 02-04-2020, 12:46 AM
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Yes. And this heli, while perhaps not completely state-of-the-art, was a well-equipped fairly high-end machine. But it still requires skill and practice to fly using these instruments. For most operational purposes, helicopters pilots tend to fly visually most of the time.
It seems to me, this would be one clear case where flight assistance (or close to autonomous flying) could improve safety. From what I've read helicopters are simply difficult to fly, but radar detection could have shown him the mountain or guided him away from it. What is happening on this front?
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Old 02-04-2020, 02:22 AM
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I was thinking Burt Reynolds, who was nominated for Boogie nights. But thinking deeper about it he never made the pros in football, it was his character in the Longest Yard who had a short Pro career, getting me confused.
A few others who came close.

Carl Weathers had a role in an Oscar-winning movie (Rocky) but he wasn't nominated.

Fred Williamson was in MASH, which was nominated for Best Picture.

Jim Brown was in The Dirty Dozen alongside John Cassavetes, who was nominated in that movie.

Alex Karras was in Victor/Victoria, alongside Julie Andrews, Robert Preston, and Lesley Ann Warren who were nominated in that movie.

Chuck Connors, who played both professional baseball and professional basketball, was never nominated for an Oscar but he was nominated for an Emmy.

Terry Crews was never nominated for an Oscar but he was nominated for a Screen Actors Guild Award for Best Ensemble.

Tony Danza was never nominated for an Oscar but he was nominated for an Emmy and two Golden Globes and he won a People's Choice Award.

Forest Whitaker won an Oscar. He played college football but didn't play professionally.

Tommy Lee Jones won an Oscar. He played college football but didn't play professionally.

Sean Connery won an Oscar. He was offered a position as a professional soccer player but he declined it.

John Goodman played college football but didn't play professionally. He has won several Emmys and been in movies which won or were nominated for Best Picture Oscars.

Kurt Russell played professional baseball in the minor leagues. He's been nominated for an Emmy and a Golden Globe but not an Oscar.

O.J. Simpson was in The Towering Inferno alongside Fred Astaire, who was nominated in that movie. The Towering Inferno was also nominated for Best Picture. (That's right. The Towering Inferno got a nomination in the same year that Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Blazing Saddles, The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser, The Front Page, The Great Gatsby, Harry and Tonto, Lacombe, Lucien, Murder on the Orient Express, The Night Porter, The Parallax View, Swept Away, Thieves Like Us, The Three Musketeers, A Woman Under the Influence, and Young Frankenstein were all snubbed.)
  #178  
Old 02-04-2020, 06:16 AM
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It seems to me, this would be one clear case where flight assistance (or close to autonomous flying) could improve safety. From what I've read helicopters are simply difficult to fly, but radar detection could have shown him the mountain or guided him away from it. What is happening on this front?
There is terrain avoidance equipment, and it is an option for that particular model of helicopter, but such equipment is less often put into helicopters than airplanes.

You see, one of the thing helicopters are good at is staying in close proximity to the ground or an object without undue hazard. Now, imagine someone in a helicopter trying to do something, say, very carefully tying to rescue an injured hiker halfway down a cliff with the terrain avoidance radar thing saying "ALARM! ALARM! TOO CLOSE! PULL UP! TOO CLOSE! PULL UP!" and the pilot saying "Goddammit, I couldn't do this job if I wasn't this close!"

Aha! You say, what about charter commuter flights like this? Couldn't you turn it on for that? Well, probably - if the equipment was there in the first place. Like optional anything, an aircraft owner is not likely to install it unless the owner really feels a need for it due to the expense of purchase, installation, recalculating the weight and balance of the machine, accepting the slightly reduce payload, then the ongoing expense to maintain and keep the equipment certified. While any one item might not be that bad compared to the overall cost of buying and maintaining the flying parts, it does all add up.
  #179  
Old 02-04-2020, 06:35 AM
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A few others who came close.

Carl Weathers had a role in an Oscar-winning movie (Rocky) but he wasn't nominated.

Fred Williamson was in MASH, which was nominated for Best Picture.

Jim Brown was in The Dirty Dozen alongside John Cassavetes, who was nominated in that movie.

Alex Karras was in Victor/Victoria, alongside Julie Andrews, Robert Preston, and Lesley Ann Warren who were nominated in that movie.

Chuck Connors, who played both professional baseball and professional basketball, was never nominated for an Oscar but he was nominated for an Emmy.

Terry Crews was never nominated for an Oscar but he was nominated for a Screen Actors Guild Award for Best Ensemble.

Tony Danza was never nominated for an Oscar but he was nominated for an Emmy and two Golden Globes and he won a People's Choice Award.

Forest Whitaker won an Oscar. He played college football but didn't play professionally.

Tommy Lee Jones won an Oscar. He played college football but didn't play professionally.

Sean Connery won an Oscar. He was offered a position as a professional soccer player but he declined it.

John Goodman played college football but didn't play professionally. He has won several Emmys and been in movies which won or were nominated for Best Picture Oscars.

Kurt Russell played professional baseball in the minor leagues. He's been nominated for an Emmy and a Golden Globe but not an Oscar.

O.J. Simpson was in The Towering Inferno alongside Fred Astaire, who was nominated in that movie.
You could maybe make a case for Paul Newman.
  #180  
Old 02-04-2020, 06:53 AM
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There is terrain avoidance equipment, and it is an option for that particular model of helicopter, but such equipment is less often put into helicopters than airplanes.

You see, one of the thing helicopters are good at is staying in close proximity to the ground or an object without undue hazard. Now, imagine someone in a helicopter trying to do something, say, very carefully tying to rescue an injured hiker halfway down a cliff with the terrain avoidance radar thing saying "ALARM! ALARM! TOO CLOSE! PULL UP! TOO CLOSE! PULL UP!" and the pilot saying "Goddammit, I couldn't do this job if I wasn't this close!"

Aha! You say, what about charter commuter flights like this? Couldn't you turn it on for that? Well, probably - if the equipment was there in the first place. Like optional anything, an aircraft owner is not likely to install it unless the owner really feels a need for it due to the expense of purchase, installation, recalculating the weight and balance of the machine, accepting the slightly reduce payload, then the ongoing expense to maintain and keep the equipment certified. While any one item might not be that bad compared to the overall cost of buying and maintaining the flying parts, it does all add up.
I see, thank you.
  #181  
Old 02-04-2020, 07:55 AM
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A few others who came close.

Carl Weathers had a role in an Oscar-winning movie (Rocky) but he wasn't nominated.

Fred Williamson was in MASH, which was nominated for Best Picture.

Jim Brown was in The Dirty Dozen alongside John Cassavetes, who was nominated in that movie.

Alex Karras was in Victor/Victoria, alongside Julie Andrews, Robert Preston, and Lesley Ann Warren who were nominated in that movie.

Chuck Connors, who played both professional baseball and professional basketball, was never nominated for an Oscar but he was nominated for an Emmy.

Terry Crews was never nominated for an Oscar but he was nominated for a Screen Actors Guild Award for Best Ensemble.

Tony Danza was never nominated for an Oscar but he was nominated for an Emmy and two Golden Globes and he won a People's Choice Award.

Forest Whitaker won an Oscar. He played college football but didn't play professionally.

Tommy Lee Jones won an Oscar. He played college football but didn't play professionally.

Sean Connery won an Oscar. He was offered a position as a professional soccer player but he declined it.

John Goodman played college football but didn't play professionally. He has won several Emmys and been in movies which won or were nominated for Best Picture Oscars.

Kurt Russell played professional baseball in the minor leagues. He's been nominated for an Emmy and a Golden Globe but not an Oscar.

O.J. Simpson was in The Towering Inferno alongside Fred Astaire, who was nominated in that movie. The Towering Inferno was also nominated for Best Picture. (That's right. The Towering Inferno got a nomination in the same year that Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Blazing Saddles, The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser, The Front Page, The Great Gatsby, Harry and Tonto, Lacombe, Lucien, Murder on the Orient Express, The Night Porter, The Parallax View, Swept Away, Thieves Like Us, The Three Musketeers, A Woman Under the Influence, and Young Frankenstein were all snubbed.)
What, no mention of Matthew Cherry, whose animated short Hair Love is currently nominated for an Oscar? He played wide receiver for the Jaguars, Bengals, Panthers, and Ravens.
  #182  
Old 02-04-2020, 08:02 AM
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I saw a FB post today with Kobe being interviewed in Italian. He speaks fluent Italian. Who knew?
Bryant learned how to curse in several languages, including French, Spanish, Serbian, and Chinese so he could trash talk players from other countries.
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:53 AM
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One thing I just read was that Kobe Bryant won an Oscar. For a surprising category: Best Animated Short Film.
It's actually pretty good. Kobe wrote the script, the animator was a Disney veteran, and the music was by John Williams.

It was available for free streaming, until they pulled it about a day after the crash. Kind of a jerk move to the fans, but I guess someone wanted to monetize it. If they'd been smart, they'd kept it free and have a big donate to ... at the end.

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AThe Towering Inferno was also nominated for Best Picture. (That's right. The Towering Inferno got a nomination in the same year that Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Blazing Saddles, The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser, The Front Page, The Great Gatsby, Harry and Tonto, Lacombe, Lucien, Murder on the Orient Express, The Night Porter, The Parallax View, Swept Away, Thieves Like Us, The Three Musketeers, A Woman Under the Influence, and Young Frankenstein were all snubbed.)
The Mel Brooks vote got split.

But seriously, those are his best films, in mine opinion. It'd be hard to pick one over the other.
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Old 02-04-2020, 12:59 PM
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Blazing Saddles is the best.

But Young Frankenstein was really good.
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Old 02-04-2020, 05:32 PM
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It's actually pretty good. Kobe wrote the script, the animator was a Disney veteran, and the music was by John Williams.

It was available for free streaming, until they pulled it about a day after the crash. Kind of a jerk move to the fans, but I guess someone wanted to monetize it. If they'd been smart, they'd kept it free and have a big donate to ... at the end.
Really? I didn't have any trouble at all finding it on YouTube.
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Old 02-04-2020, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
He lived in Italy for 7 years.
Kobe's father, Joe "Jellybean" Bryant, played in the NBA, followed by several years of pro ball in Europe. That's why Kobe lived there as a kid.
  #187  
Old 02-07-2020, 09:52 PM
PastTense is online now
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Wreckage from the helicopter that crashed last month and killed Kobe Bryant, his daughter and seven others did not show any outward evidence of engine failure, the National Transportation Safety Board said Friday.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-investigation

Here is the NTSB Aircraft Accident Investigative Update:
https://ntsb.gov/investigations/Docu...ive-Update.pdf
  #188  
Old 02-10-2020, 01:05 PM
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One thing I just read was that Kobe Bryant won an Oscar. For a surprising category: Best Animated Short Film.

Anyway, the article said that Bryant was not only the first former professional athlete to win an Oscar but the first to ever be nominated. I find that surprising and a little hard to believe. Surely there must have been some other professional athlete who went on to a successful enough career in film to have been nominated?
Interestingly Matthew A. Cherry, NFL wide receiver of minor note(I don't believe he ever made it into a game), won an Oscar yesterday.
  #189  
Old 02-10-2020, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by PastTense View Post
From that site: Radar/ADS-B data indicate the aircraft was climbing along a course aligned with Highway 101 just east of the Las Virgenes exit. Between Las Virgenes and Lost Hills Road, the aircraft reached 2,300 feet msl (approximately 1,500 feet above the highway, which lies below the surrounding terrain) and began a left turn.

Again, if he intended to turn on Lost Hills Rd as a safety margin to clear the mountains and instead turned on Las Virgenes (which ran along the base of the mountains) then he lost the terrain advantage. Not sure it mattered if it was a case of disorientation but it would have given him more altitude to to work with. Had he kept climbing he would have cleared the mountains. whatever climb rate was established became an accelerated descent as the aircraft rolled over.

If an aircraft is climbing at 2400 feet per minute and it's rolled with the same control input then the descent rate is much greater. If you're looking at the artificial horizon it's quite obvious but if you're only looking out the window and visibility is lost then things go bad VERY quickly.

It's hard to describe disorientation but it's a result of the instruments showing one thing and your inner ear telling you something else. I briefly experienced this once at night with an old style artificial horizon. "Up" was white, and "down" was black. I was flying to an airport to pick up a friend and forgot what type of airspace I was entering so I looped around until I got permission to enter. The artificial horizon locked sideways and for a brief moment I couldn't tell which way was up. It was made worse by the lights from a highway billboard illuminating the plane. It never occurred to me those old style billboards had lights powerful enough to do that. I thought someone was climbing up from a nearby airport into a collision. It didn't take much time to work things out but the initial disorientation made me dizzy and scared. It was like zero to wildly drunk in 1 second.

Last edited by Magiver; 02-10-2020 at 11:26 PM.
  #190  
Old 02-11-2020, 07:38 AM
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Thanks, Magiver, for that vivid and helpful post.
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