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Old 02-10-2020, 01:12 PM
MulderMuffin is offline
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Don't trust any information coming out of Ukraine?


I found it odd yesterday, while watching the Sunday shows, and odder today, while reading other news reports, that Republicans are suddenly vocally adamant about not trusting any news or information coming out of Ukraine because it might be Russian propaganda.

Lindsey Graham, adamant that the Bidens were up to something fishy in Ukraine, insisted several times that he had no interest in hearing from Rudy, claimed that any information coming from Ukraine was suspect, Said the intelligence community should vet everything for corroboration and veracity. Barr has said much the same.

I'm confused, and frankly suspicious. Why, all of a sudden, are they proactively dismissing investigations coming from Ukraine?I mean, reasonable people would, of course, harbor this skepticism, but this administration has not been known for holding reasonable views. They're still insisting Biden is guilty of many crimes, still insisting the President is a candidate for sainthood, but suddenly pointing out that sources in Ukraine may not be completely reliable. It's making my conspiracy theory hind brain act up.

What information will be coming out of Ukraine that Republicans want us to dismiss? Why are they going on the record all of a sudden to let us know that what comes out of Ukraine could possibly be Russian propaganda? Rather than dismiss anything Rudy brought back to smear the Bidens. Lindsey Graham would gleefully give interviews about any unsubstantiated rumor he could if it helped Trump and hurt Democrats. They've never before let truth get in the way of a good story. Why now?

Does this have anything to do with Barr forbidding any investigations into any candidates by the intelligence communities unless he personally okays it?

Should I fabricate a tin foil hat, or does this look suspicious to anyone else?
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Old 02-10-2020, 01:56 PM
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Any instance where either Graham or Barr appears to be doing the right thing certainly has my alarm bells ringing.
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Old 02-10-2020, 02:09 PM
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"
Quote:
There are a lot of agendas in the Ukraine. There are a lot of cross currents, and we can't take anything we receive from the Ukraine at face value," Barr said.
Exactly. While this statement is obviously true and reasonable, it's a complete 180 degree turnabout from their public position just a few days ago. Alarm bells, indeed.
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Old 02-10-2020, 02:18 PM
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It's the usual GOP pattern; make all kinds of wild accusations but then drop the actual investigation. They know they can accuse people of anything without limit and the accusations will make the news. But they also know they're lying and they don't have any evidence to back up the accusations. The last thing they want is an investigation that would reveal this.
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Old 02-10-2020, 02:42 PM
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For one, all the anti-Biden stuff that was going around the internet was clearly linked to Russian sources.

For mysterious reasons, there have been allegations that the President and Russia had a collusive arrangement going in the last election. The FBI also reported that various Republican congressmen were receiving opponent research that had been stolen by Russia from the DNC.

Between those two things, it might have seemed like a wise time to try and clear the stench a bit.

In addition to that, there was also the Yovanovitch stalking incident and, of course, whatever all Giuliani and his pals were up to business wise. As of yet, nothing has come out of that, but it does seem likely to be on the horizon.
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Old 02-10-2020, 02:51 PM
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I think Republicans are trying to find a way to remain as close as possible to Trump and as much distance as they from Rudy. Everyone knows Rudy is a hand grenade, and will probably end up in jail like Manafort.

And at that point, Republicans will be crowing about how they didn't get suckered by Rudy, and Trump will say he hasn't spoken to Rudy in a long time and besides which Rudy wasn't REALLY his lawyer because he wasn't even paying him.
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
I think Republicans are trying to find a way to remain as close as possible to Trump and as much distance as they from Rudy. Everyone knows Rudy is a hand grenade, and will probably end up in jail like Manafort.

And at that point, Republicans will be crowing about how they didn't get suckered by Rudy, and Trump will say he hasn't spoken to Rudy in a long time and besides which Rudy wasn't REALLY his lawyer because he wasn't even paying him.
Rudy who? I barely know the guy.
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Old 02-10-2020, 04:54 PM
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Thanking further along the lines of my previous post, one might suppose that Ukraine might have realized that their days are numbered.

Up until now, the Senate has been supporting them but they just threw in with Trump and his desire to lay the blame for 2016 on their country.

Trump is currently holding up delivery of the arms that they bought with the money that was held up:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...-us-arms-sales

Given that they were ready to start the investigation into Biden and backed Trump through the Impeachment, and he's holding their arms still, and the goalie has walked away, it's reasonable for Ukraine to think that the US has fully swung under Russia's influence.

It would be reasonable for them to go on the offense.

I expect that they're seeking help from Germany or someone at the moment.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 02-10-2020 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 02-11-2020, 04:18 PM
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Okay, my speculative theory:

Barr, Graham, et al are saying now that they will be very suspicious and circumspect over any information from Ukraine, especially coming via Giuliani.

The are saying this to create for themselves an appearance of credibility, honesty, ethical behavior and being objective.

They fully intend, of course, to crucify the Bidens for any frivolous reason, like if they blew their noses using foreign-manufactured tissue paper. They will nail them on manufactured evidence.

But having created for themselves an aura of credibility, all their subsequent lies and sleaze then become all the more credible. I think that may be what they are doing.

These guys are crooks, but they aren't as stupid as we wish to believe. They (other than Trump himself) are able to think these things out several moves in advance.
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Old 02-11-2020, 04:21 PM
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Maybe this:

- New Ukraine Emails Prove White House Lied to Congressional Investigators
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"I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any hon. Gentleman will question it." ~John Stuart Mill
  #11  
Old 02-11-2020, 05:53 PM
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There are conflicting reports that Elaine McCusker's appointment to the Pentagon may be pulled by the President due to her comments in the released OMB emails.
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Old 02-11-2020, 06:38 PM
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Maybe.......

Maybe Ukraine HAS been conducting investigations- investigations into Yovanovitch’s security, Guiliani’s strong-arming, maybe the Fruman/Parnas stuff. And maybe they’re about to drop the results of those investigations. And maybe those results aren’t so good for Trump.

I doubt it, though. It would seem rather suicidal on their part. But a girl can dream.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 02-11-2020 at 06:39 PM.
  #13  
Old 02-11-2020, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann Hedonia View Post
Maybe.......

Maybe Ukraine HAS been conducting investigations- investigations into Yovanovitch’s security, Guiliani’s strong-arming, maybe the Fruman/Parnas stuff. And maybe they’re about to drop the results of those investigations. And maybe those results aren’t so good for Trump.

I doubt it, though. It would seem rather suicidal on their part. But a girl can dream.
I like your dream.

Poor Ukraine. It has been trying its hardest to stay out of US political squabbles, but it hasn't done any good. Rudy is still trolling around, feeding (dis)information to Barr, they look weak in front of Russia, and the US has taken their money and won't give them weapons.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...-us-arms-sales

They have no easy way forward that doesn't piss off someone stronger on the world stage.

I'd love it if they'd drop some knowledge about Trump, Yovanovich, Guiliani, and the whole mess. If they aren't getting their aid anyway, why not?
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