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Old 02-09-2020, 05:01 AM
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Vindman and Sondland: further retaliation?


OK, Vindman and Sondland were fired almost as soon as possible after the Senate vote. This was predictable from the moment the two opened their mouths in the House committee. I hope no one was surprised at this.

So will the person-who-cannot-be-named try to do more to retaliate against them? Have Barr sic investigators on Sondland? Try to get Vindman court martialed? Have Giuliani bite them (turn into vampires/contract rabies)? From everything I've heard about Trump, he's vindictive enough to do this.
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Old 02-09-2020, 07:44 AM
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Soundland is a private citizen. Outside of investigations and revealing secrets, not much.

The Vindmans (plural). Serving military officers. Trump is the CinC. No illegal orders, but even legal orders give him huge leeway to make their lives miserable.
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Old 02-09-2020, 08:25 AM
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Surprised? No.

I'm sure there's more coming.

This is what the Senate Republicans have unleashed. Trump really CAN do whatever he damn well pleases at this point, with no fear of repercussions, and they are the ones who enabled it. The Republican Party is beyond redemption.
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Old 02-09-2020, 08:39 AM
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Surprised? No.

I'm sure there's more coming.

This is what the Senate Republicans have unleashed. Trump really CAN do whatever he damn well pleases at this point, with no fear of repercussions, and they are the ones who enabled it. The Republican Party is beyond redemption.
They're a cult, or something not far different from it. I listened to a Joe Walsh interview with Slate last night, and he said that Trump doesn't have supporters, but followers. I think in that environment, he can do what he wants.
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Old 02-09-2020, 09:24 AM
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Try to get Vindman court martialed?


I've already seen one of his supporters on Facebook call for just this, claiming that he's guilty of everything under the sun. He also wants the brother court martialed, but was somewhat less clear on the "justification" for that.
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Old 02-09-2020, 09:59 AM
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Bill Barr could start a criminal investigation. Sure, it would be baseless, but that's not the point -- the subjects of a criminal investigation would have that hanging over their heads. They'd have to pay lawyers potentially tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep up with the investigation and defend them, depending on how far it goes.

Look at the example of Andrew McCabe. Have they even indicted him? No, but that's not the point.

The DoJ was even ordered by a district judge in DC to make a decision on whether to indictment, and to date they haven't. And yet AFAIK, the case is still pending.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...80b_story.html

Quote:
A veteran federal judge on Monday warned U.S. prosecutors either to charge former acting FBI director Andrew McCabe or to drop their investigation into whether he lied to investigators about an unauthorized media disclosure, saying their indecision was undermining the credibility of the Justice Department.
Not only is Barr concocting a bullshit investigation, but he's done all that he can to legitimize keeping the facts of the case secret. In other words, he's not just trying to put McCabe in jail, he's also trying to keep his reasons for doing so shielded from public view.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...artment-070527

Quote:
A change to the Justice Departmentís legal stance in a suit related to former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe is prompting fresh speculation about the mysterious state of the Justice Departmentís effort to prosecute McCabe over alleged misstatements to investigators about his interactions with colleagues during the 2016 election.

In a brief court filing Wednesday, Justice Department attorneys said they were no longer arguing that public release of records about McCabe would interfere with an ongoing enforcement action. That claim is typically used to withhold records about ongoing investigations or prosecutions.
In short, Bill Barr is lying; we're just fortunate that we have a judicial system that is still nonpartisan enough and capable enough to hold him accountable, but that won't last forever, considering how Mitch McConnell has turned the Senate into a pro-oligarch, pro-kleptocratic judicial nomination factory. That leaves Barr free to weaponize the Department of Justice to go after Trump's enemies.

Bear in mind that Bill Barr himself is in the vortex of whatever corrupt, criminal shenanigans Trump is involved in. Criminal activity is something that future presidents who succeed Trump would surely consider investigating, and Trump's henchmen know that - just as Vladimir Putin knew that he was going to be prosecuted by justice officials in St. Petersburg unless he found a way to permanently fix that problem, which he did. Anyone who tried to hold Putin legally and ethically accountable was jailed, killed, or chased out of the country, and in some cases even exiles were killed. Given the proximity between Trump's GOP and the Kremlin, it's not at all a stretch to suggest that a similar thing could happen here as well.

The message is clear: Bill Barr is using the Department of Justice to terrorize career officials who cross Trump. He's already demonstrated a willingness to use federal resources to go after Trump's investigators, and there's no reason to believe he won't do this to others who testify against him or otherwise threaten his legitimacy.
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:05 AM
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And all this after they won!
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:23 AM
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And all this after they won!
Um, you misspelled "won".

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Soundland is a private citizen. Outside of investigations and revealing secrets, not much.
If Soundland attempts to purchase, say, a house, car, whatever, and is shocked to find that his credit is shite, then what?
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:26 AM
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And all this after they won!
It's not enough to win; they have to keep winning. They're in a position where they can't afford to lose even once. And that's what makes them extremely dangerous.

The first step an authoritarian regime takes in destroying democracy is convincing people that there's no such thing as truth, that all people are equally bad, that nobody has good motives, so fuck worrying about whose intentions are good and whose aren't. This approach explains Alan Dershowitz's defense of Trump right down to the final full stop. All politicians are bad, they're going to act out of self-interest, they'll sometimes do unethical and illegal things in doing so, and that's what you accept in a democracy. It's bullshit, but it's what a lot of know-nothing voters assume having been bombarded with Oliver Stone and Alex Jones conspiracy theories for decades.

But it's the next step when the death of democracy becomes more obvious, and here it is: the authoritarians are going not after the threats below them (voters, concerned citizens, activists, etc); they're taking out their opposition and their challengers toward the top. The first way they do that is to take control of the machinery of government - the bureaucracy - and to weaponize it, to use it as a cudgel, as a sledgehammer against enemies. They're right now fighting to take control of that machinery. That explains the bullshit investigation of McCabe. The threatened investigation of Comey. The massive inter-agency investigation into how the Trump probe even started. They're taking over the machinery, either by purging them, by forcing them to retire, by firing them outright in humiliating "perp walk" like exits from the White House, or by threatening to prosecute them and making them pay a fair chunk of their life savings to stay out of prison. Shit, they could be murdered in prison "altercations" and they know it.

And when that process of taking over the government's machinery comes into clearer focus, well, that is when they start getting more aggressive. That's when they building apparatuses that ensure they win elections. That's also when they start prosecuting political rivals for "crimes" against the state. These things take time, but this is ultimately how it unfolds. It will become more and more obvious, and chances are, people will be standing around, looking at each other, wondering what in the hell to do, knowing that something is terribly wrong but clueless as to how to stop it, and fearful of trying.
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:51 AM
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Trump will make the Bataan death march look like a church picnic if he can.
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Old 02-09-2020, 11:03 AM
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system problem missed the edit window

Trump did this same stuff as a business owner. For example he screwed contractors all the time. And screwed porn stars too. He has not changed at all.
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Old 02-09-2020, 11:43 AM
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I would not want to be either man's tax preparer. I anticipate every federal return they file will be audited.
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Old 02-09-2020, 11:54 AM
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I would not want to be either man's tax preparer. I anticipate every federal return they file will be audited.
Would this be legal? I mean wouldn't there have to be some reason (one extant before 2019) to justify the cost to the government? Or, is there nothing in the US legal system to prevent such retributive action?
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Old 02-09-2020, 12:03 PM
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Would this be legal? I mean wouldn't there have to be some reason (one extant before 2019) to justify the cost to the government? Or, is there nothing in the US legal system to prevent such retributive action?


You're still acting like what was normal four years ago still is normal. Trump's acquittal in the Senate has finally put paid to that.

Barr has said he won't investigate Trump, and the Senate has said that they're okay with everything Trump has done so far. So who remains to enforce the law against Trump?

Is some low-level IRS guy going to oppose the President of the United States, when every legal authority above him has shown that they not only won't stop Trump from engaging in reprisals, they'll actually enable him in reprisals?

The Checks and Balances are gone. Now we're down to raw power and noble sacrifices.
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Old 02-09-2020, 12:07 PM
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Would this be legal? I mean wouldn't there have to be some reason (one extant before 2019) to justify the cost to the government? Or, is there nothing in the US legal system to prevent such retributive action?
It's not whether there is legal protection against harassment - there clearly are such legal protections.

But they're accountable to no one now. They don't have to comply with subpoenas. They can refuse to turn over documents. They can claim executive privilege. They can prosecute former career officials and keep their reasons for doing so in private. Eventually, they might relent and some judge, somewhere might hold them accountable, but not before making individuals spend tons of money defending themselves.

Get the picture?
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Old 02-09-2020, 12:47 PM
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What happens when the day comes that Trump says "SCOTUS has issued its decision. Let THEM enforce it."?

Let us remember rule-of-law and "checks and balances" themselves are predicated, as is Smithian capitalism, on that all parties to the system are rationally self-interested in playing by fair rules and that when they detect some player trying to abuse it the rest of them will realize they have to gang up on him to stop it before he takes them down. This of course fails when enough of the other players are fine with it because it profits them too "and maybe I'll be one of the privileged survivors".


A lot of the instruments of abuse we now see Trump applying used to be instruments of "executive discretion" that were allowed to be established so that the legislature would not need to write a statute to cover every single case, or so that the authorities could "do the right thing" in the face of a Congress or state governments who would not, or to go after gangsters/druglords/terrorists/subversives, through whatever "not pretty, but necessary" backdoor or workaround they could think of.

Let us remember that right form the start Trump brought to our attention how a lot of the supposed "rules" of how a President acts or does not act (tax disclosures, profit from office, etc.) were just longstanding "gentlemen's agreements" that were written up nowhere and that he felt it was stupid to submit to if there was noone who could force him to.

In the specific case of ambassadorships and the NSC, these institutions were made direct dependencies of whoever's the sitting POTUS because of the "unitary executive" model which conceptually is sensible enough, POTUS being the elected head of the Government AND of the State , and making them in any way independent would be seen as institutionalizing the Deep State for real. But the office's evolution into the modern-age "imperial presidency" makes it so that when we get a POTUS who believes he is personally the ruler of the country, there is no way to put the brakes on him/her unless Congress is willing to.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 02-09-2020 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 02-09-2020, 01:02 PM
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So Barr says he's set up a pipeline to get what I'm sure will be completely legitimate evidence regarding the Bidens directly from Rudy Guliani, a man who holds no government position and is not a part of either Ukrainian or American intelligence network; he's just a guy. Who is, or was, Trump's personal lawyer. And has been hobnobbing in the Ukraine with, presumably, a guy he knows. When it comes to Trump the US Justice Department will effectively consist of Guliani, Barr, and Trump. And whoever's feeding Guiliani, of course.

And I see that Lindsay Graham went on TV to proclaim that those who investigated Trump will be going to jail even though they broke no laws. This might succeed or it might fail, but either way the Republicans have slipped further into prerogative rather than normative governance, and that's fascism.

Congratulations.
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Old 02-09-2020, 01:56 PM
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Would this be legal? I mean wouldn't there have to be some reason (one extant before 2019) to justify the cost to the government? Or, is there nothing in the US legal system to prevent such retributive action?
Let's go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! Where the fuck do you think you live?
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Old 02-09-2020, 02:23 PM
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Where the fuck do you think you live?
Canada, actually.

And I admit that I had not appreciated the full implications of Trumpís Senate acquittal.
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Old 02-09-2020, 02:30 PM
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Let us remember that right form the start Trump brought to our attention how a lot of the supposed "rules" of how a President acts or does not act (tax disclosures, profit from office, etc.) were just longstanding "gentlemen's agreements" that were written up nowhere and that he felt it was stupid to submit to if there was noone who could force him to.
The "Gentleman's Agreement" would accept that Trump had good reasons to fire Col Vindman. But it would also require him to enter something like "while political compulsions oblige this removal, I trust I do not need to impress the point that the officer's future prospects should be decided on the basis of his own merits rather than being governed by the fact of the present unfortunate decision into his file.
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Old 02-09-2020, 03:07 PM
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Canada, actually.

And I admit that I had not appreciated the full implications of Trumpís Senate acquittal.
Trump wouldn't have been acquitted if popular support for his impeachment and removal had swollen to levels that compelled the Senate to act in order to save their own asses.

But, that's not what happened. And it didn't happen because not enough Americans have a value system that is compatible with democracy's continued viability. Some of these voters like Trump or think he's doing a good job; others are checked out. Some value inequality and like their spot at the top of the social and economic pecking order; others are literally too busy struggling to survive to care about political theater. The reason doesn't matter.

The sobering, brutal reality is this: your large neighbor to the south will not continue to be a free and democratic society for much longer at this rate. And unfortunately, that, too, will have implications for your country as well. It probably already has. But at least Canada can be an example and a model for how a democracy can work, even if we ultimately give up on it or experiment with something else for a while.
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Old 02-09-2020, 03:13 PM
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Possibly. Trends tend to move north, though. It turns out our illustrious premier was in attendance at that prayer-breakfast thing, clapping with the rest.
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Old 02-09-2020, 03:42 PM
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You're still acting like what was normal four years ago still is normal. Trump's acquittal in the Senate has finally put paid to that.

Barr has said he won't investigate Trump, and the Senate has said that they're okay with everything Trump has done so far. So who remains to enforce the law against Trump?

Is some low-level IRS guy going to oppose the President of the United States, when every legal authority above him has shown that they not only won't stop Trump from engaging in reprisals, they'll actually enable him in reprisals?

The Checks and Balances are gone. Now we're down to raw power and noble sacrifices.
While I agree with the spirit of this post (i.e., that Trump has broken boundary after boundary), the IRS was weaponized by the Nixon and Johnson administrations. Shortly after the 1964, election, Goldwater's speechwriter Karl Hess got slapped with a "revenge audit".
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Old 02-09-2020, 03:49 PM
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I think all of democracy everywhere is being (or will be) challenged by sweeping transformations that have been, are now, and will continue to cause dislocation. And these dislocations are the fault lines upon which democracies lie.

Our most recent iterations of Democracy took shape during the age when mass communication was introduced and became the way we shared ideas. We were fortunate in that, for the most part, these information gatekeepers and "sharers" valued facts and value shining the light on public servants. Not only was the gatekeeper powerful, but also responsible.

In the day and age of social media and satellite/cable TV with hundreds of channels, it's difficult for responsible journalism to stand out and it's easy for irresponsible journalism to poison the well. Democracies depend on good input in order for voters to make good choices and select good leaders. I'm not sure 19th and 20th Century constitutions and federal codes are updated enough to respond to this increasingly volatile situation.
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:33 PM
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It's not enough to win; they have to keep winning. They're in a position where they can't afford to lose even once. And that's what makes them extremely dangerous.

The first step an authoritarian regime takes in destroying democracy is convincing people that there's no such thing as truth, that all people are equally bad, that nobody has good motives, so fuck worrying about whose intentions are good and whose aren't. This approach explains Alan Dershowitz's defense of Trump right down to the final full stop. All politicians are bad, they're going to act out of self-interest, they'll sometimes do unethical and illegal things in doing so, and that's what you accept in a democracy. It's bullshit, but it's what a lot of know-nothing voters assume having been bombarded with Oliver Stone and Alex Jones conspiracy theories for decades.

But it's the next step when the death of democracy becomes more obvious, and here it is: the authoritarians are going not after the threats below them (voters, concerned citizens, activists, etc); they're taking out their opposition and their challengers toward the top. The first way they do that is to take control of the machinery of government - the bureaucracy - and to weaponize it, to use it as a cudgel, as a sledgehammer against enemies. They're right now fighting to take control of that machinery. That explains the bullshit investigation of McCabe. The threatened investigation of Comey. The massive inter-agency investigation into how the Trump probe even started. They're taking over the machinery, either by purging them, by forcing them to retire, by firing them outright in humiliating "perp walk" like exits from the White House, or by threatening to prosecute them and making them pay a fair chunk of their life savings to stay out of prison. Shit, they could be murdered in prison "altercations" and they know it.

And when that process of taking over the government's machinery comes into clearer focus, well, that is when they start getting more aggressive. That's when they building apparatuses that ensure they win elections. That's also when they start prosecuting political rivals for "crimes" against the state. These things take time, but this is ultimately how it unfolds. It will become more and more obvious, and chances are, people will be standing around, looking at each other, wondering what in the hell to do, knowing that something is terribly wrong but clueless as to how to stop it, and fearful of trying.
Pretty much as I said (the bold):

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/02/tru...thical-report/

Quote:
With Sen. Jack Reed (D-RI) telling the press, Trumpís ďpersonal insecurities and vindictiveness are making our nation less secure,Ē before adding, that the president ďwonít tolerate people who tell the truthĒ government workers agreed that Trump has served notice to all of them.
Trust me, they're not just worried about their careers; those who are watching the president and Bill Barr know that their lives could be totally ruined - not just their careers, but their lives.
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Old 02-10-2020, 04:03 AM
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The purge will continue until the whispering stops.

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...Canada can be an example and a model for how a democracy can work, even if we ultimately give up on it or experiment with something else for a while.
Canada can be annexed if The Don thinks it feasible and manufactures an excuse. It will be a bigger land grab than Polk's annexation of Texas Republic, Oregon Territory, and half of Mexico - YUGE!. But what would happen to the price of maple syrup?
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Old 02-10-2020, 04:17 AM
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Five tornadoes hit the Washington DC area after Trump fired Vindman and Sondland. Clearly, God is not pleased with Trump.
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Old 02-10-2020, 05:19 AM
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The purge will continue until the whispering stops.


Canada can be annexed if The Don thinks it feasible and manufactures an excuse. It will be a bigger land grab than Polk's annexation of Texas Republic, Oregon Territory, and half of Mexico - YUGE!. But what would happen to the price of maple syrup?
Trump can talk about how easy it would be to annex Canada and it'll have even less credibility then his claims that trade wars are easy to win and that he can pay off the national debt in eight years. His rally audiences will hoot and cheer and that's all he really wants; praise for the assertion. Following though is for suckers and losers.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:30 AM
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Five tornadoes hit the Washington DC area after Trump fired Vindman and Sondland. Clearly, God is not pleased with Trump.
A smiting would be a lot more efficient! Simple, direct, educational....
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Old 02-10-2020, 04:46 PM
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Would this be legal? I mean wouldn't there have to be some reason (one extant before 2019) to justify the cost to the government? Or, is there nothing in the US legal system to prevent such retributive action?
It is explicitly against the law for Trump to retaliate against these people:

Quote:
18 U.S. Code ß 1513. Retaliating against a witness, victim, or an informant

(e) Whoever knowingly, with the intent to retaliate, takes any action harmful to any person, including interference with the lawful employment or livelihood of any person, for providing to a law enforcement officer any truthful information relating to the commission or possible commission of any Federal offense, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

(f) Whoever conspires to commit any offense under this section shall be subject to the same penalties as those prescribed for the offense the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.

SOURCE: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1513
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Old 02-10-2020, 04:50 PM
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It is explicitly against the law for Trump to fire these people:
Unfortunately, he can't be removed from office to face the consequences.
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Old 02-10-2020, 04:52 PM
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It is explicitly against the law for Trump to retaliate against these people:
It's not against the law when The Messiah does it. This was proven in the recent impeachment trial.
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Old 02-10-2020, 05:42 PM
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It is explicitly against the law for Trump to retaliate against these people:
Heh. ďLaw.Ē Cute.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:09 PM
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Canada can be annexed if The Don thinks it feasible and manufactures an excuse. It will be a bigger land grab than Polk's annexation of Texas Republic, Oregon Territory, and half of Mexico - YUGE!. But what would happen to the price of maple syrup?


The last thing the GOP wants is 37 million new voters who all expect universal health care.
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:03 PM
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Um, you misspelled "won".



If Soundland attempts to purchase, say, a house, car, whatever, and is shocked to find that his credit is shite, then what?
Sondland is wealthy hotelier in his own right. I'm sure he just writes a check for his latest Ferrari.

As for the Vindmans: Trump can fuck with their promotions and assignments. These guys are specialists who work in the Pentagon, but they could easily just be reassigned to Afghanistan or Korea or some other garden spot and to billets that are relatively meaningless. How about mess officer in Fort Wainwright, Alaska? While he'd still be a LTCOL, it would be a demotion in terms of duties and responsibilities, which lessens promotion chances.
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:18 PM
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Sondland is wealthy hotelier in his own right. I'm sure he just writes a check for his latest Ferrari.

As for the Vindmans: Trump can fuck with their promotions and assignments. These guys are specialists who work in the Pentagon, but they could easily just be reassigned to Afghanistan or Korea or some other garden spot and to billets that are relatively meaningless. How about mess officer in Fort Wainwright, Alaska? While he'd still be a LTCOL, it would be a demotion in terms of duties and responsibilities, which lessens promotion chances.
If they withdraw plum assignments that have been made in advance, would that be considered retaliation?

Iím not sure if Iím phrasing that right. I listened to Vindmanís testimony. He talked about how he had been accepted into the War College, an elite training program for military officers and he was going sometime this year. It is supposedly a great honor.

And Iíve been wondering if they could withdraw that and would it be considered, legally, retaliation? By a military that made specific promises that he would be safe from retaliation.

And Iím pretty sure Trump thinks he was FIRED- and he has no idea Vindman still works for the government. And I bet everyone is falling over themselves to keep him from finding out.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:45 PM
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The last thing the GOP wants is 37 million new voters who all expect universal health care.
Declare English the official language to disenfranchise Quebecois, Puertoricanos, Gullahs, etc. Enroll all Greater Americans in mandatory private health plans, with premiums set inversely to a postal code's vote for Tramp. This rewards the faithful. What, nobody in the Great North or Puerto Rico voted Tramp? They'll pay, oh yes they will!

Back to purging. So many non-minions remain in the Postal and Civil Services Deep State*. Only loyalists deserve those jobs, no matter how incompetent, illiterate, or insane. Honest people who actually know anything can't be trusted. Kick-em out!

* Did an actual Deep State exist, the Oval Office would have a different occupant.
  #38  
Old 02-11-2020, 04:50 AM
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Trust me, they're not just worried about their careers; those who are watching the president and Bill Barr know that their lives could be totally ruined - not just their careers, but their lives.
Not just their lives but their families' lives - everyone is talking about Vindeman being shown the door but seem to forget his twin brother also lost his job, and his twin never said anything to Congress. WTF? Where's the outrage? As near as I can tell Yevgeny was fired solely because he's Alexander's brother.
  #39  
Old 02-11-2020, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post
Sondland is wealthy hotelier in his own right. I'm sure he just writes a check for his latest Ferrari.

As for the Vindmans: Trump can fuck with their promotions and assignments. These guys are specialists who work in the Pentagon, but they could easily just be reassigned to Afghanistan or Korea or some other garden spot and to billets that are relatively meaningless. How about mess officer in Fort Wainwright, Alaska? While he'd still be a LTCOL, it would be a demotion in terms of duties and responsibilities, which lessens promotion chances.
I asked about this in one of the other threads, but how much power does Trump have to influence their assignments? Can he, for example, dictate they be put on latrine duty in Afghanistan? Can he personally veto any promotions or commendations recommended by their superiors?

Last edited by joebuck20; 02-11-2020 at 09:14 AM.
  #40  
Old 02-11-2020, 09:24 AM
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I believe Lt.Crn.Vinneman was going to be transferred anyway to the War College.
  #41  
Old 02-11-2020, 09:39 AM
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he would not have a problem seeing Don Jr. or Eric or Ivana whacked like Fredo Corleone. Sammy the Bull Gravano saw his BIL whacked for breaking a mafia rule. Did not bother him.

Last edited by Bijou Drains; 02-11-2020 at 09:40 AM.
  #42  
Old 02-11-2020, 10:28 AM
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I believe Lt.Crn.Vinneman was going to be transferred anyway to the War College.
So it will be interesting if Vindman does get to go to one of the war colleges. I wouldn't be shocked if Trump fucked him over on that somehow. I've never been in the military, but I imagine having a graduate degree or fellowship is important for an officer's career track progression.

Trump is petty enough to involve himself. I remember seeing an interview with an Atlantic City contractor who sued Trump after getting stiffed and Trump basically blacklisted his company. Before his casino bankruptcies, he had enough pull in AC to keep other contractors from doing business with the guy's company. If you did business with the guy, the Trump casinos wouldn't do business with you. Of course, people soon realized Trump would fuck you and your business over pretty much no matter what.
  #43  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:06 AM
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"In defeat, malice. In victory, revenge." I saw that around here somewhere.
  #44  
Old 02-12-2020, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by joebuck20 View Post
I asked about this in one of the other threads, but how much power does Trump have to influence their assignments? Can he, for example, dictate they be put on latrine duty in Afghanistan? Can he personally veto any promotions or commendations recommended by their superiors?
He made a statement in the last two days that Vindman "should be punished". I have to believe that the Army will stand behind Vindman on this and defy the President trying to extract vengeance on a man who was doing his patriotic duty. That doesn't mean that Vindman won't be passed over in the next promotion cycle as a sop to the White House.
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