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  #101  
Old 02-12-2020, 10:42 PM
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  #102  
Old 02-12-2020, 10:59 PM
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No. I live in a police state.
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  #103  
Old 02-13-2020, 05:47 PM
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So if you donít drive and you donít have a passport, how do you prove your identity/age/residence etc.? Itís hard to believe it never comes up.
Birth certificate, national insurance number, utillity bills. that sort of thing. Most people do end up with either a passport or driver's licence but even my DL doesn't have a photo.

I can't ever remember a situation in the UK where I've had to produce a photo ID ad-hoc. Even when I've gone for a job there have been options to use non photo ID to initiate the security checks.

The government did try to suggest mandated photo ID some years ago, it didn't go down well.
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  #104  
Old 02-13-2020, 06:05 PM
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The government did try to suggest mandated photo ID some years ago, it didn't go down well.
The government doesn't mandate photo ID. It's just that you won't be able to do a lot of things without it, such as write a check, sign up for membership at places, rent or borrow things, purchase alcohol or tobacco products, enter a bar, enter certain secured buildings, board an airplane, purchase prescribed or otherwise controlled medications, etc.
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  #105  
Old 02-13-2020, 06:08 PM
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I was going to say no, or at least not on purpose, but then I read the responses about walking dogs. I haven't had a dog for ages, but I walked her without ID all the time. And when coworkers and I go for walks on breaks, none of us carry ID. But I figure with the latter at least, if anything goes wrong we can ID each other.
  #106  
Old 02-13-2020, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Novelty Bobble View Post

The government did try to suggest mandated photo ID some years ago, it didn't go down well.
The government doesn't mandate photo ID. It's just that you won't be able to do a lot of things without it, such as write a check, sign up for membership at places, rent or borrow things, purchase alcohol or tobacco products, enter a bar, enter certain secured buildings, board an airplane, purchase prescribed or otherwise controlled medications, etc.
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  #107  
Old 02-13-2020, 06:31 PM
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The government doesn't mandate photo ID. It's just that you won't be able to do a lot of things without it, such as write a check, sign up for membership at places, rent or borrow things, purchase alcohol or tobacco products, enter a bar, enter certain secured buildings, board an airplane, purchase prescribed or otherwise controlled medications, etc.
pretty sure some governements do
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  #108  
Old 02-13-2020, 06:40 PM
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pretty sure some governements do
Iím comparing the situation in the U.S. to yours. ďThe GovernmentĒ doesnít mean ďevery government.Ē
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Last edited by Acsenray; 02-13-2020 at 06:43 PM.
  #109  
Old 02-13-2020, 07:25 PM
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The government doesn't mandate photo ID. It's just that you won't be able to do a lot of things without it, such as write a check, sign up for membership at places, rent or borrow things, purchase alcohol or tobacco products, enter a bar, enter certain secured buildings, board an airplane, purchase prescribed or otherwise controlled medications, etc.
I had to show my ID to pick up a $6 order at Joann Fabrics yesterday.
  #110  
Old 02-14-2020, 02:39 AM
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Iím comparing the situation in the U.S. to yours. ďThe GovernmentĒ doesnít mean ďevery government.Ē
Then I'm not sure why you stated "The government doesn't mandate photo ID" as if I'd claimed otherwise. I just stated what my own governmnet tried to do and didn't refer to any other government at all.
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  #111  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:17 AM
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Is that just for citizens? I ask because I'm American and my son is attending university in the UK. As part of applying for his Tier 4 (student) visa, he had to get pictures and fingerprints taken at a US Homeland Security office which were transmitted to the UK and put on a Biometric Residency Permit (BRP), which he then had to pick up at a UK post office within 7 days of arrival. It's a plastic ID card about the size of a credit card/driver license. He needs this to reenter the country legally. He also needed it at his GP to prove he was eligible to access National Health Services.
Yeah, residency permits are different. Basically 'cos there wasn't as much pushback about making non-citizens get an official ID, especially as anyone who legally entered the country had one anyway (maybe the odd refugee doesn't, but that's a different system anyway).

But, like I said previously, I had a 30 something year old housemate who owns no form of photo ID. It's not a deliberate attempt to avoid attention or anything, it's just never been needed. On the rare occasions he needs to prove address, usually 2 utility bills will be accepted, and the beard is usually an acceptable proof of age when it comes to buying stuff.

Cheques here are pretty much only used we have to post a payment (honestly I think they're about 80% birthday presents from grandma at this point) and we use chip-and-pin on credit and debit cards when we're not just waving cards in the general direction of the scanner. Police can look up your picture and details without needing to see a card (unless there's a system glitch or something).

I've only had to show ID when flying, starting a new job with a background check requirement and when registering as a student, in the last decade. I did show it when I got a new doctor, but I think I could have brought several non-photo options instead.
  #112  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:26 AM
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The government doesn't mandate photo ID. It's just that you won't be able to do a lot of things without it, such as write a check, sign up for membership at places, rent or borrow things, purchase alcohol or tobacco products, enter a bar, enter certain secured buildings, board an airplane, purchase prescribed or otherwise controlled medications, etc.
The only thing in that list we'd need photo ID for in the UK is boarding a plane. Unless you're under 25, then photo ID would be handy for buying alcohol.

Only other time I can remember recently was registering with a new solicitor, when I bought my house.

When I purchase prescription meds, all I'm asked for is a verbal confirmation of my address (which is printed on the prescription).

And 'writing checks'? Do you still do that?

(One other thing - we don't need any iD to vote either. We don't even need to show our polling card. Just recite your address at the polling station).

Last edited by SanVito; 02-14-2020 at 03:28 AM.
  #113  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:31 AM
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The government doesn't mandate photo ID.
Assuming we're talking about the US government, then yes, in some cases it does. I gave the example upthread of permanent residents, who must carry their green card with them at all times.

https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/aft...our-green-card

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Originally Posted by USCIS
We issue a Permanent Resident Card (Green Card) to all permanent residents as proof that they are authorized to live and work in the United States. If you are a permanent resident age 18 or older, you are required to have a valid Green Card in your possession at all times.
  #114  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:38 AM
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And 'writing checks'? Do you still do that?.
Yes. I occasionally still do that. Checks are actually very useful.

If I’m paying a bill by mail, I write a check.

If I’m paying a service provider like my cleaning lady or lawn care guy I always write a check.

For the down payment in my house I write a check.

If I’m paying my neighbor for my share of the reee removal I write a check.

My parents send me my birthday present with a check.

You can float a check. You can’t do that with an electronic payment.
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Last edited by Acsenray; 02-14-2020 at 06:41 AM.
  #115  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:44 AM
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I had to show my ID to pick up a $6 order at Joann Fabrics yesterday.
The last two times I had to show ID was at Michael's for online yarn orders! Guess there's a band of yarn thieves in my county.
  #116  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:39 AM
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Yes. I occasionally still do that. Checks are actually very useful.

If Iím paying a bill by mail, I write a check.
All my bills are paid for by electronic payment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
If Iím paying a service provider like my cleaning lady or lawn care guy I always write a check.
Electronic bank transfer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
For the down payment in my house I write a check.
Electronic bank transfer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
If Iím paying my neighbor for my share of the reee removal I write a check.
Again, electronic bank transfer

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Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
My parents send me my birthday present with a check.
THIS I will grant you. But then my parents are 92.

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Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
You can float a check. You canít do that with an electronic payment.
What do you mean by 'float a check'?
  #117  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:44 AM
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Floating a check means writing one knowing you do not have the money in your account.

When I used to accept checks at my business, this was a big problem. Somebody would write a check that was not good yet. Sometimes I'd just happen to be going to the bank, so I'd deposit the check that same day. After it bounced, the check writer would be pissed off at me for depositing it "too soon".

I'm so happy I decided to stop accepting checks ~10 years ago.
  #118  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:29 AM
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All my bills are paid for by electronic payment


Electronic bank transfer


Electronic bank transfer


Again, electronic bank transfer


THIS I will grant you. But then my parents are 92.
I don’t want to use electronic bank transfer with anyone who isn’t a major business or institution.

Electronic transfer means I have to have the money in my account right now. Writing a check allows me to avoid saying “can I pay you after payday?”

I don’t want to be part of a system which allows a friend or other casual relationship to demand I pay them right away.

Quote:
What do you mean by 'float a check'?
That means I can give someone a check or mail it and get credit for payment even though there won’t be enough money in the account to cover it for several days.
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Last edited by Acsenray; 02-14-2020 at 09:33 AM.
  #119  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:40 AM
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That means I can give someone a check or mail it and get credit for payment even though there won’t be enough money in the account to cover it for several days.
I see where you're coming from, but really that's a bug, not a feature.

My bank allows me to specify a payment date for electronic payments that can be anywhere from immediate to many days away. So it's possible to pay someone electronically, setting a date convenient for you, and tell them you have made the payment but it may take a few days to arrive in their account. Works for everyone just as well as, in fact better than, a cheque.

I think it's a bit of an anomaly that the US is so far behind many other countries in terms of adopting newer payment technology (in general), chip and PIN cards being another example.

Last edited by Dead Cat; 02-14-2020 at 09:41 AM.
  #120  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:54 AM
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For anyone who doesn't take any ID with them, please start. Not for you, but for the healthcare workers who have to call someone and tell them you're unconscious in the emergency room. We're grateful our kid did after he was hit by a car.

Since I've been hit a few times commuting by bike, the wife often yells "Have a nice ride! Gotcher ID?"
Which is useless for anyone who lives alone, or even anyone without a home phone. In Post #56, I suggested a RoadID, which lists whatever emergency contact info &/or allergies that you want to put on it. I have no affiliation with them other than the fact that I have one & was wearing it last night when I was out hiking with others who know me but not well enough to know my next of kin. Get one made by them or another company, I don't care; just get one as there's no guarantee that your phone will make it with you to the hospital or not be damaged beyond usability if it does. Just like what happened with the Medic-Alert bracelets* a few years ago, make sure to get one that is obvious what it is.


* People wearing them stated that didn't want something that looked like a medic alert bracelet so they started making ones that were more 'jewelry-like'; the problem is that they aren't as noticeable & therefore, the people who needed to see them when you were in a bad way didn't notice them as they just looked like jewelry. I've seen some IDs that attach to a (black) sports watch band, in black metal; very easy to overlook...until they do an autopsy in the coroners office a day or two later.
  #121  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:40 AM
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Which is useless for anyone who lives alone, or even anyone without a home phone. In Post #56, I suggested a RoadID
Ugh. I hate having something strapped to my wrist. I don't wear a wristwatch or any other jewelry that would touch my skin.
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  #122  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:40 AM
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If I leave my property I take wallet with ID, keys, and cell with me. I have run out into the road without this when there's been an accident down there and I think somebody needs help, but even then I'll typically get my gear because I want the cell with me.

But when I hike in parks in the summer, I generally don't carry the big fat wallet. It will be hidden in my parked car. I will have the keys, and my cell, which can identify me with medical details for anybody even if they don't have the information to unlock the whole phone. When I used to bike, I had a pet tag engraved with my ID and emergency contact info, and wore it on a stout cord about my neck.
  #123  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:49 AM
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If I go for a walk in my neighborhood, I will often leave my wallet at home.
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  #124  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:50 AM
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I ALWAYS have my driver's license with me when I drive because, you know, it's the law here (Indiana/the U.S.). If your wallet falls out somehow most police officers will tell you to bring your correct ID to the police station to prove you have it. Otherwise, when you are doing anything other than driving, you are not required to have ID with you.
  #125  
Old 02-14-2020, 11:27 AM
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Ugh. I hate having something strapped to my wrist. I don't wear a wristwatch or any other jewelry that would touch my skin.
Then get dog tags. Google images of damage to vehicles after striking a pedestrian. If you counting on your phone surviving that (if it happens to be on the side of impact) you're nuts. The best way to have ID survive something catastrophic is have it firmly attached to you, noticeable, & engraved or embossed metal.
  #126  
Old 02-14-2020, 11:45 AM
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Then get dog tags. Google images of damage to vehicles after striking a pedestrian. If you counting on your phone surviving that (if it happens to be on the side of impact) you're nuts. The best way to have ID survive something catastrophic is have it firmly attached to you, noticeable, & engraved or embossed metal.
I've got three cell phones and several other forms of identification in my pocket--business cards, driver's license, employer's ID card. Are they all likely to be destroyed in an accident?

I don't really want to wear identification on my body. How likely is it that everyone in the world needs that?
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  #127  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:50 PM
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I've got three cell phones and several other forms of identification in my pocket--business cards, driver's license, employer's ID card. Are they all likely to be destroyed in an accident?

I don't really want to wear identification on my body. How likely is it that everyone in the world needs that?
So maybe you don't need one but a lot of people should have one. As I previously stated, anyone who lives alone should have one; does police a fat lotta good if they know your address but not how to get in touch with next of kin. How many of your neighbors or cow-orkers (other than by HR looking into the files) know how to get it touch with any relative that doesn't live with you?

However, since you asked, just for S&G let's try this scenario - you're in a ride share this evening, an accident causes that vehicle to go off a bridge where it becomes submerged in the river below. The water shorts out all three of your cell phones rendering them unusable. Your short flight drop & subsequent impact dislodges your wallet. When the car is pulled from the water, the angle of extraction & the receding waters lodge is squarely under the middle of the front seat where it is missed by investigating officers on their first time thru the car. As luck would have it, you happened to have one of your business cards in your shirt pocket & your employee ID is still clipped to your belt; however, since it's a holiday weekend there's no one to contact until next Tuesday. You were relatively close to home; only 9 miles away but that happens to be the jurisdiction of the next town/county/state so when concerned relatives call the police in your town all the dots aren't connected to the John Doe lying in the morgue right away.
  #128  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:34 PM
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When I lived in the city, I would go out all the time with just a twenty in my pocket. I still do that when I’m out walking, just a lot less frequently, and I have my cell phone on me.
  #129  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:22 PM
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I just came back from picking up my glasses. The tech asked me my last name, then brought a tray from the back and said "Are you <first name>?" and I said yes. Then she gave me my glasses. Now the likelihood of someone trying to steal someone else's prescription eyewear is probably close to nil, but still, these suckers cost several hundred (to my insurance, not me.)

Of course, I have an honest face.
  #130  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:37 PM
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I sort of do by accident, because my Freedom Pass has my name and photo on it and I keep it on me at all times so that I don't forget it when I need it, but it's not official ID, really. I don't drive, and replacing a passport is expensive and inconvenient, so I don't carry that around.

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Originally Posted by Novelty Bobble View Post
there's no such thing in the UK
There is the Validate UK card, but I've never known anyone who has one and I suspect most people haven't even heard of them. It's a lot cheaper than a passport, but can't be used for international travel, so most people just get a passport. I might actually get one when my passport expires.

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Originally Posted by ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness View Post
Is that just for citizens? I ask because I'm American and my son is attending university in the UK. As part of applying for his Tier 4 (student) visa, he had to get pictures and fingerprints taken at a US Homeland Security office which were transmitted to the UK and put on a Biometric Residency Permit (BRP), which he then had to pick up at a UK post office within 7 days of arrival. It's a plastic ID card about the size of a credit card/driver license. He needs this to reenter the country legally. He also needed it at his GP to prove he was eligible to access National Health Services.
He won't need to carry his ID on him at all times, even as a non-citizen.

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Originally Posted by digs View Post
For anyone who doesn't take any ID with them, please start. Not for you, but for the healthcare workers who have to call someone and tell them you're unconscious in the emergency room. We're grateful our kid did after he was hit by a car.

Since I've been hit a few times commuting by bike, the wife often yells "Have a nice ride! Gotcher ID?"
The ID I have only has my name and age on, which wouldn't be much more useful than my debit card, which I do always have with me.

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Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
The government doesn't mandate photo ID. It's just that you won't be able to do a lot of things without it, such as write a check, sign up for membership at places, rent or borrow things, purchase alcohol or tobacco products, enter a bar, enter certain secured buildings, board an airplane, purchase prescribed or otherwise controlled medications, etc.
I never write cheques - they're really rare in the UK. Most people don't even have chequebooks. Signing up for membership is not something that comes up often (I've done it once in person in the last few years - everything else is online), I've never needed ID to rent or borrow anything (I would if I were hiring a car - if I could drive - but for most people that's an unusual circumstance too), we don't need ID to enter a bar, I'm old enough to never get checked for ID when buying anything with an age restriction, and we don't need ID to collect prescriptions, even for opioids. The only time I've needed ID to enter a building, it was specific work ID they needed with a chip that allows you to open doors and get through turnstiles, operate lifts, etc, not general ID.

One other circumstance in the US where you might need ID is attending hospital appointments, and I have plenty of those, but they don't ask for ID either.

So needing ID rarely comes up.
  #131  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:10 PM
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I've got three cell phones and several other forms of identification in my pocket--business cards, driver's license, employer's ID card. Are they all likely to be destroyed in an accident?

I don't really want to wear identification on my body. How likely is it that everyone in the world needs that?
When I first saw this comment, I thought you were using the phone as ID. Do most people have a fingerprint lock or PIN on their phone?

(I'm always confused by those Reddit stories. "I was going through my SO's phone when I found evidence of an affair." The only person who could go through my phone is a hacker.)

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Originally Posted by FairyChatMom View Post
I just came back from picking up my glasses. The tech asked me my last name, then brought a tray from the back and said "Are you <first name>?" and I said yes. Then she gave me my glasses. Now the likelihood of someone trying to steal someone else's prescription eyewear is probably close to nil, but still, these suckers cost several hundred (to my insurance, not me.)

Of course, I have an honest face.
It's the glasses.
  #132  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:46 PM
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So maybe you don't need one but a lot of people should have one. As I previously stated, anyone who lives alone should have one; does police a fat lotta good if they know your address but not how to get in touch with next of kin. How many of your neighbors or cow-orkers (other than by HR looking into the files) know how to get it touch with any relative that doesn't live with you?

However, since you asked, just for S&G let's try this scenario - you're in a ride share this evening, an accident causes that vehicle to go off a bridge where it becomes submerged in the river below. The water shorts out all three of your cell phones rendering them unusable. Your short flight drop & subsequent impact dislodges your wallet. When the car is pulled from the water, the angle of extraction & the receding waters lodge is squarely under the middle of the front seat where it is missed by investigating officers on their first time thru the car. As luck would have it, you happened to have one of your business cards in your shirt pocket & your employee ID is still clipped to your belt; however, since it's a holiday weekend there's no one to contact until next Tuesday. You were relatively close to home; only 9 miles away but that happens to be the jurisdiction of the next town/county/state so when concerned relatives call the police in your town all the dots aren't connected to the John Doe lying in the morgue right away.
Okay. Do you suppose this scenario is likely enough that itís worth planning for?
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  #133  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:55 PM
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When I go for a run, I don't carry id. Basically I do any other time. Ms. P will go out without id occasionally.
  #134  
Old 02-15-2020, 12:55 PM
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It's liberating to recognize the privilege and exercise it.
You realize "privilege" means most people don't have it as good as you do ... right?

If you live somewhere so safe, so lacking in crime, that you never lock your doors at all, then that is DEEPLY privileged.

Goody gumdrops for you and all, but you sound all high & mighty instead of grateful, like we plebians carrying around keys and ID just haven't thought of any better options and are too stupid to imagine one. Re-read the early post towards the start of this thread, about being large, black, and male while living in America & the subsequent need to carry ID just to take out the trash.

Be humble & grateful for your privileges, instead of rubbing people's noses in them.
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  #135  
Old 02-15-2020, 05:44 PM
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Almost never, but once in awhile I might not have it on me if I'm walking the dog or going out for a local hike.
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  #136  
Old 02-15-2020, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
Okay. Do you suppose this scenario is likely enough that itís worth planning for?
I wouldn't exactly call it a everyday occurrence but it's hardly unheard of around here either. It depends if you want your relatives to know you're in the hospital or morgue right away or in a few days?
  #137  
Old 02-15-2020, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiderman View Post
I wouldn't exactly call it a everyday occurrence but it's hardly unheard of around here either. It depends if you want your relatives to know you're in the hospital or morgue right away or in a few days?
It matters to me how likely this scenario is. I’m not willing to take the trouble to prepare for a situation that is extremely unlikely to inconvenience my surviving relatives. In the extremely unlikely circumstance that I find myself being dead in this manner, I can live with my relatives having to worry over my fate for a couple of days. They’ll have quite a story to tell afterwards.

It makes sense that we mandate the wearing of dog tags for folk we are sending into battle. Generally speaking, the rest of us don’t wake up every morning in a war zone.
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Last edited by Acsenray; 02-15-2020 at 09:29 PM.
  #138  
Old 02-16-2020, 03:07 PM
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Outside of a few narrow circumstances like at the beach/pool or camping, I always have ID and currency on me when away from home. And even then, those items are nearby in the car or hotel room or whatever.
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