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  #1  
Old 09-22-2016, 05:18 PM
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Bridge-gate Trial: FINALLY


It looks like, years later, its finally in a courtroom.

Cites:

http://nypost.com/2016/09/21/mayor-i...istie-payback/

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...nal_trial.html

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...foye_fire.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.2800851

http://www.app.com/story/news/politi...risk/90837244/


So... is Christie Guilty? Not Guilty?

Do you think there will be any surprises? If Chris Christie is impeached (and technically that is possible) could it pull down Trump's numbers?
  #2  
Old 09-23-2016, 10:05 AM
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I'm still confused. What is the actual law alleged to have been committed?
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:08 AM
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Since Christie isn't on trial, no one's going to find him guilty.
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:19 AM
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I'm still confused. What is the actual law alleged to have been committed?
"Baroni and Kelly are each charged with conspiring to misuse, and actually misusing, property of an organization receiving federal benefits; conspiring to commit, and actually committing, wire fraud; conspiring to injure and oppress certain individuals’ civil rights, and acting under color of law to deprive certain individuals of their civil rights."

https://www.justice.gov/usao-nj/pr/f...ff-nj-governor
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Old 09-23-2016, 11:20 AM
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"Baroni and Kelly are each charged with conspiring to misuse, and actually misusing, property of an organization receiving federal benefits; conspiring to commit, and actually committing, wire fraud; conspiring to injure and oppress certain individuals’ civil rights, and acting under color of law to deprive certain individuals of their civil rights."

https://www.justice.gov/usao-nj/pr/f...ff-nj-governor
For blocking traffic? What am I missing?
  #6  
Old 09-23-2016, 12:00 PM
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For blocking traffic? What am I missing?
I'm not sure what you're missing. Are there parts of the DOJ press release that are unclear? I think it's a reasonably concise summary of the charges.
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:05 PM
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For blocking traffic? What am I missing?
Deliberately fucking up traffic endangered the lives of people, effectively cutting them off from some emergency services. The GW Bridge is an enormously expensive public asset, and depriving people from its use in an act of political retribution honestly doesn't seem wrong to you?
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:13 PM
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Deliberately fucking up traffic endangered the lives of people, effectively cutting them off from some emergency services. The GW Bridge is an enormously expensive public asset, and depriving people from its use in an act of political retribution honestly doesn't seem wrong to you?
And the misusing of property is covered by the misuse of "...Port Authority property, including the time and services of unwitting Port Authority personnel and other resources..."
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:16 PM
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It might be worth noting that both defense lawyers and prosecutors agree that Christie knew about the bridge lane closings. The defense originally said as much because they want Christie blamed instead of their clients, but prosecutors recently said the same about Christie's knowledge of the scheme.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/ny...ate-trial.html

Quote:
Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey knew that three of his top officials were involved in a plan to shut down lanes leading to the George Washington Bridge as it was happening and that the closings were intended to punish a local mayor for declining to support him, federal prosecutors said on Monday.

The assertion was an unexpected and startling beginning to the trial of two former Christie administration officials charged with closing the lanes in 2013 and then covering it up. And it was a surprising claim because of the side of the courtroom it came from, as lawyers made opening statements.

Defense lawyers have long argued that Mr. Christie, a Republican, and his top advisers were well aware of the lane closings and that they directed the cover-up as they tried to protect the governor’s political aspirations — saying their clients were “thrown under the presidential bus,” as one lawyer argued on Monday.

But this was the first time a prosecutor had pointed a finger at Mr. Christie. And it directly contradicts the governor’s statements in the three years since the lanes were mysteriously closed, paralyzing the borough of Fort Lee, N.J.
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:01 PM
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And we have testimony that Christie was directly involved in using the Port Authority for his electoral gain.
[ufl=http://www.northjersey.com/news/wildstein-christie-aides-used-port-authority-as-goody-bag-to-get-endorsements-1.1665806]Cite.[/url]
Quote:
As the deputy executive director, Baroni was Christie’s top appointee at the agency, which owns and operates the bridge.

Wildstein said his job was to “advance Governor Christie’s agenda” at the agency and being a “very aggressive” person that meant taking on the role of “bad cop when it was necessary to move something forward.”
Meanwhile, Christie's favorability rating is down to 23%, worse than Bush's at the end, and there is talk of impeachment.
Maybe this will come up in the debate.
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:46 PM
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The GW Bridge is an enormously expensive public asset, and depriving people from its use in an act of political retribution honestly doesn't seem wrong to you?
What were they being retributed for?
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:53 PM
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What were they being retributed for?
Do you really not know this? Post #9 in this very thread has that information. Both the prosecution and defense agree on this.
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Old 09-24-2016, 02:54 AM
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Sorry, but I'm with Saint Cad here - one should be able to follow a thread without having to click on a lot of links, and asking for further details should not be met with disdain from other posters who know the answers but can't be bothered to share that info.
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Old 09-24-2016, 03:38 AM
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Post #9 quoted the exact information Saint Cad asked for in post #11.
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Old 09-24-2016, 05:23 AM
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Sorry, but I'm with Saint Cad here - one should be able to follow a thread without having to click on a lot of links, and asking for further details should not be met with disdain from other posters who know the answers but can't be bothered to share that info.
Saint Cad has participated in threads on this subject before. He knows what we're talking about. He's trying to make some sort of point.

And, yes, there is directly quoted information in this thread that answers his question.

Last edited by BigT; 09-24-2016 at 05:25 AM.
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Old 09-24-2016, 06:54 AM
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What were they being retributed for?
The mayor of Fort Lee was being punished for not endorsing Christie. But I suspect you may have already heard.
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Old 09-24-2016, 08:15 AM
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Sorry, but I'm with Saint Cad here - one should be able to follow a thread without having to click on a lot of links, and asking for further details should not be met with disdain from other posters who know the answers but can't be bothered to share that info.
He asked what they were charged with, and I quoted the exact charges as well as provided a link. He then responded to the effect that he still didn't understand the charges.

Since the link I provided can be read in about two minutes, I'm at a loss for how to respond to "I still don't get it." The most obvious question is, did you read the link, and if so, what is unclear? That seems like a reasonable response - to shave down "I dont understand" to "what part needs to be explained?"
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:39 AM
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Christie may be off the hook legally, unlike Port Authority Wildstein, but he's still looking at impeachment. The Trump campaign is his only bridge out of future oblivion.

Northern Piper, this is hardly a new topic. There is no need to resume every discussion from the beginning. Sorry.
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Old 09-24-2016, 11:38 AM
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The mayor of Fort Lee was being punished for not endorsing Christie. But I suspect you may have already heard.
I dunno, maybe it's considered "local news?"

I've certainly heard every juicy bridge detail from day one, but it may only be because New Jersey is right next door, like a neighbor who never mows the lawn and keeps a rusted-out automobile chassis in the front yard and lets the dogs shit EVERYPLACE.

Maybe Cad lives in New Mexico or someplace and doesn't care.
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Old 09-24-2016, 12:20 PM
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But I suspect you may have already heard.
Or maybe I didn't because I don't live in NJ. Are you going to be this condescending in every post you make?
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Old 09-24-2016, 12:26 PM
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Saint Cad has participated in threads on this subject before. He knows what we're talking about. He's trying to make some sort of point.

And, yes, there is directly quoted information in this thread that answers his question.
I know a lot of the Dems in this thread would love to assume all are informed as they are but maybe that's not true. All I remembered about this was that NJ blocked some traffic on some bridge because Christie didn't like a mayor. What I didn't know was:

1) Why didn't he like that particular mayor?
2) Why would it be illegal to schedule a traffic study, even for political means (unethical does not mean illegal)?
3) Was their something more I was missing, like in Fort Lee mostly blacks or Dems?
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Old 09-24-2016, 12:54 PM
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Here's the short version. Some people decided to cause traffic problems in Fort Lee. On the first day they were told that because of this emergency services were having trouble responding to calls and people's lives were in danger as result. In spite of this they kept up the traffic problems for three more days.

This is a crime. If there was any doubt that a crime occurred that was dispelled when one one person entered a guilty plea.
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Old 09-24-2016, 01:00 PM
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Here's the short version. Some people decided to cause traffic problems in Fort Lee. On the first day they were told that because of this emergency services were having trouble responding to calls and people's lives were in danger as result. In spite of this they kept up the traffic problems for three more days.

This is a crime. If there was any doubt that a crime occurred that was dispelled when one one person entered a guilty plea.

And as far as WHY did some people decide to cause traffic problems in Fort Lee:

I have only a passing familiarity with this, and don't live anywhere near, but as far as I can tell, it was because the mayor of Fort Lee did not support Christie, so this was seen by the participants as a form of political retribution/payback. Childish yes, but when people's lives are put at risk, it would seem to also be criminal.

Really, it's not that hard to figure out. When someone comes into the thread "just asking questions" and pretending that it's so very complicated... One has to wonder why they do this.
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Old 09-24-2016, 01:15 PM
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Are you going to be this condescending in every post you make?
I didn't think he was being condescending; I appreciate his participation in the thread. INAL, you see, and I didn't wanted to be baited into answering legal questions as if I was one.

I was just posing the question that (since all of this abuse of power is now coming out in court) while its possible that Chris Christie, a major supporter of Trump behind the scenes, could be impeached over this... whether or not the legislators in NJ actually would.
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Old 09-24-2016, 01:32 PM
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Or maybe I didn't because I don't live in NJ. Are you going to be this condescending in every post you make?
I was not trying to be condescending, but I find it difficult to believe that the story hadn't reached you yet. Christie of course was trying to run up the score in his re-election as governor in order to boost his profile for the presidential run that we all knew he would make. Trying to get people to endorse you is fine, but when they refuse to do so, it doesn't entitle you to endanger the lives of citizens to punish a mayor.
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Old 09-24-2016, 02:02 PM
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1) Why didn't he like that particular mayor?
As stated elsewhere, the mayor refused to endorse Christie.

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2) Why would it be illegal to schedule a traffic study, even for political means (unethical does not mean illegal)?
18 USC 666 is a Federal law prohibiting various types of theft, fraud, or misuse of property that receieves significant Federal funds. By screwing around with a bridge that receives large amounts of highway funds, in a manner to obtain some type of personal satisfaction (i.e., political retribution) that had no legitimate public interest, the Government asserts that these aids violated that law, and a few others.

To say it another way, public employees just can't take government property and use it for their own personal benefit. For example, a driver of a garbage truck can't take it home on the weekends to run errands. That's using public property for private benefit. Shutting down lanes on a bridge, using the labor, cones, trucks, signs, flashing lights, etc. for the sole purpose of a political grudge is similarly alleged to be using public property in a fraudulent manner.

There's other charges too, but this is the main one. Obviously, if the road crew was doing actual work that related to transportation safety or whatnot, there wouldn't be an issue.

Quote:
3) Was their something more I was missing, like in Fort Lee mostly blacks or Dems?
It's pretty clear this is 99% about the lack of a political endorsement. I'm sure there's more to it, but there are quite a lot of emails that are in evidence that make the main intent perfectly clear.

For anyone who wants to read more details, here's the full indictment:
http://online.wsj.com/public/resourc...indictment.pdf
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Old 09-24-2016, 02:11 PM
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Quoth Saint Cad:

2) Why would it be illegal to schedule a traffic study, even for political means (unethical does not mean illegal)?
Traffic study? Who said anything about a traffic study? Did you, in fact, know something about this situation, despite your professed ignorance of the topic?

Although, I guess you can still maintain your claim of ignorance, given that there was not in fact any traffic study done.
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Old 09-24-2016, 02:43 PM
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Deliberately fucking up traffic endangered the lives of people, effectively cutting them off from some emergency services. The GW Bridge is an enormously expensive public asset, and depriving people from its use in an act of political retribution honestly doesn't seem wrong to you?
Did you feel the same about the anti-Trump people that blocked a major highway to Trump rally?

I doubt it. And even if you do, IMO there are a buttload of liberals here that somehow can see some sort of "difference" to feel better about themselves.

PS. IFFF Christie or some other lower level fucks actually did this...nail them to the wall by their balls.

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Old 09-24-2016, 02:54 PM
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Did you feel the same about the anti-Trump people that blocked a major highway to Trump rally?

I doubt it. And even if you do, IMO there are a buttload of liberals here that somehow can see some sort of "difference" to feel better about themselves.

PS. IFFF Christie or some other lower level fucks actually did this...nail them to the wall by their balls.
Citizens blocking a highway in an act of civil disobedience is different from a public official closing a highway in an act of political revenge. The citizens have every reason to expect legal retribution; the public officials expected to get away with it. The fact that they're facing charges is an accident.
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Old 09-24-2016, 02:57 PM
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Citizens blocking a highway in an act of civil disobedience is different from a public official closing a highway in an act of political revenge. The citizens have every reason to expect legal retribution; the public officials expected to get away with it. The fact that they're facing charges is an accident.
So IFFF the Trump blockers that blocked the highway and somebody died because an emergency vehicle could not get through...you would support manslaughter (at the least) charges for all those bozos?

PS. It is easy as frack to protest WITHOUT blocking a major highway. As easy as being a dick mayor/govenor with or without blocking an important bridge.

Last edited by billfish678; 09-24-2016 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 09-24-2016, 03:03 PM
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I was not trying to be condescending, but I find it difficult to believe that the story hadn't reached you yet. Christie of course was trying to run up the score in his re-election as governor in order to boost his profile for the presidential run that we all knew he would make. Trying to get people to endorse you is fine, but when they refuse to do so, it doesn't entitle you to endanger the lives of citizens to punish a mayor.
That was pretty condescending, BLD. Let's please try not to impute motives and assumed knowledge for other posters, please.
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Old 09-24-2016, 05:21 PM
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That was pretty condescending, BLD. Let's please try not to impute motives and assumed knowledge for other posters, please.
OK, you're as impartial an observer as any, so I accept the verdict that I was condescending and offer my sincere apologies to Saint Cad.

To respond to the point raised about whether I thought the Trump protesters blocking traffic was on a par with the GWB affair, I would say no. I'm sure the protesters would have cleared the way for an ambulance if needed and the blockage was quite temporary. Christie and his henchmen recklessly snarled traffic and endangered the citizens out of pure pettiness.
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Old 09-24-2016, 05:38 PM
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I'm sure the protesters would have cleared the way for an ambulance if needed and the blockage was quite temporary. Christie and his henchmen recklessly snarled traffic and endangered the citizens out of pure pettiness.
Protestors can magically unsnarl a snarled up traffic jam?

Who knew?

We apparently need magic protesters as Highway Patrol Officers.

PS. And what is more petty than keeping your political opponents from (gasp) hearing their great leader speak?

Last edited by billfish678; 09-24-2016 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 09-24-2016, 05:48 PM
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Did you feel the same about the anti-Trump people that blocked a major highway to Trump rally?
Those people were arrested for blocking a road for like an hour. Blocking a road is crime and blocking a road for days is a more serious crime than blocking a road for hours.
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Old 09-24-2016, 05:50 PM
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Those people were arrested for blocking a road for like an hour. Blocking a road is crime and blocking a road for days is a more serious crime than blocking a road for hours.
Depends on which hour the ambulance needed to get by.

Again, manslaughter charges for the anti Trump cry babies that might have blocked the road during some possible life or death hour?

Do the crime, pay the time mantra sounds fine...till you find you really screwed up and killed someone...then it's all "we didn't MEAN to kill someone".

And yet again. Somebody actually did the Chrisie bridge gate thing? Fuck them too and throw away the key.

Last edited by billfish678; 09-24-2016 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 09-24-2016, 05:52 PM
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Those people were arrested for blocking a road for like an hour. Blocking a road is crime and blocking a road for days is a more serious crime than blocking a road for hours.
That, and people really can drive off road. This was a bridge that is many hundreds of feet above the Hudson River.

In case of emergency, Governor Tromaville basically had his administration tell the people of NY and NJ, "Go Jump".
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Old 09-24-2016, 07:08 PM
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Quoth billfish678:

PS. IFFF Christie or some other lower level fucks actually did this...nail them to the wall by their balls.
Why the "if"? Is there some uncertainty in your mind as to whether they did?
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Old 09-24-2016, 07:19 PM
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Why the "if"? Is there some uncertainty in your mind as to whether they did?
Because I have not followed THIS particular political shit storm too closely.

Like I said/implied. If some court of law (and don't get me wrong, if some political shenagins kept this FROM being tried that is a whole nuther level of bull shit) gets "supposed" bad actors tried and they are found guilty (barring EITHER some getting off ON a technicallity OR NOT getting found guilty on one)...

Nail their asses to the wall...
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Old 09-24-2016, 07:30 PM
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Did you feel the same about the anti-Trump people that blocked a major highway to Trump rally?

I doubt it. And even if you do, IMO there are a buttload of liberals here that somehow can see some sort of "difference" to feel better about themselves.

PS. IFFF Christie or some other lower level fucks actually did this...nail them to the wall by their balls.

I do. I absolutely do but then again, I loathe traffic far more than I loathe a political party. I have sympathy for neither of these parties.
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Old 09-24-2016, 07:45 PM
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Depends on which hour the ambulance needed to get by.
Baroni and Wildstein were told of two specific instances where emergency services couldn't properly respond. Real instances. Not hypotheticals.

They kept the traffic problems going for three days after that.
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Old 09-24-2016, 08:44 PM
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I find it hard to believe that any of you could have been following the Republican primary campaign, in which Christie was a prominent player, and not have heard of Bridgegate.

What exactly DID you know about Christie? Just that he's loud, fat, and abrasive?
  #42  
Old 09-24-2016, 08:52 PM
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Like I said/implied. If some court of law (and don't get me wrong, if some political shenagins kept this FROM being tried that is a whole nuther level of bull shit) gets "supposed" bad actors tried and they are found guilty (barring EITHER some getting off ON a technicallity OR NOT getting found guilty on one)...
The trial is currently happening. That is pretty much the reason this thread exists. One person has already entered a guilty plea.
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Old 09-24-2016, 08:55 PM
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The trial is currently happening. That is pretty much the reason this thread exists. One person has already entered a guilty plea.
Well, when you see me defending their asses you might have something worth pointing out.

I notice Boblimdeb/whoever got quite...I wonder why?
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Old 09-24-2016, 08:56 PM
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Well, when you see me defending their asses you might have something worth pointing out.

I notice Boblimdeb/whoever got quite...I wonder why?
Still around, I'll have more to add a bit later. Thank you for your interest.
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Old 09-24-2016, 08:58 PM
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Still around, I'll have more to add a bit later. Thank you for your interest.
Takes awhile to round the wagons doesn't it?
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:11 PM
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You said, "Like I said/implied. If some court of law gets "supposed" bad actors tried and they are found guilty... Nail their asses to the wall..." in an earlier post.

This seems like you were not aware that a trial is occurring and that one person has entered a guilty plea.

David Wildstein is not a "supposed" bad actor. He admitted in court that he committed crimes.

Here's some stuff that was said in court a couple months ago...

Quote:
"Prior to on or about August 12, 2013, did you have separate discussions with Mr. Baroni and Ms. Kelly about how the local access lanes could be used as leverage against Mayor Sokolich," Wigenton asked Wildstein during a series of 43 questions outlining his role in the scandal.

"Yes," Wildstein said.

"Did you agree with others, including Mr. Baroni and Ms. Kelly, to punish Mayor Sokolich for not endorsing Governor Christie by deliberately causing significant traffic problems in Fort Lee," he asked.

"Yes," Wildstein answered.
  #47  
Old 09-24-2016, 09:42 PM
Lance Turbo is offline
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Here's some questions Wildstein answered 'yes' to in his guilty plea concerning the traffic study in case anyone still thinks there was a legitimate traffic study going on.

Quote:
As to the details of the scheme, did you, Mr. Baroni, and Ms. Kelly also agree to use the cover story of a traffic study as a justification for unwitting Port Authority personnel whose services would be used to implement the changes to the Local Access Lanes?

Did you, Mr. Baroni, and Ms. Kelly, also agree to use the cover story of a traffic study as a means of concealing the true punitive purpose of the plan?

After the lane reductions ended on September 13, 2013, did you, Mr. Baroni, and Ms. Kelly continue your agreement to use Port Authority property, including the time and services of Port Authority personnel, to advance the cover story that the reductions were for a traffic study?

Did you, Mr. Baroni, and Ms. Kelly continue to advance the cover story of a traffic study to conceal the true punitive purpose of the lane and toll booth reductions?
  #48  
Old 09-24-2016, 09:49 PM
Lance Turbo is offline
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Here's a few more questions that Wildstein answered 'yes' to in his guilty plea. I'm not posting these to address any argument made in this thread. I'm just highlighting what colossal dicks these people are.

Quote:
Did you, Mr. Baroni, and Ms. Kelly also agree that no advance notice of the lane and toll booth reductions would be provided to Mayor Sokolich, the Fort Lee Chief of Police, and the residents of Fort Lee?

Did you, Mr. Baroni, and Ms. Kelly also purposely choose to begin these lane and toll booth reductions on the tirst day of the school year in Fort Lee?

Were the decisions not to give advance notice and to select the first day of school made to maximize the traffic congestion in Fort Lee and, thus, the punishment of Mayor Sokolich?
  #49  
Old 09-24-2016, 09:50 PM
Ukulele Ike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billfish678 View Post
I notice Boblimdeb/whoever got quite...I wonder why?
Got quite...what? Gassy? I understand he had a burrito for dinner. Just open a window, he'll be fine in a little while.
  #50  
Old 09-24-2016, 10:43 PM
billfish678 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Turbo View Post
You said, "Like I said/implied. If some court of law gets "supposed" bad actors tried and they are found guilty... Nail their asses to the wall..." in an earlier post.

This seems like you were not aware that a trial is occurring and that one person has entered a guilty plea.

David Wildstein is not a "supposed" bad actor. He admitted in court that he committed crimes.

Here's some stuff that was said in court a couple months ago...
And yet AGAIN.

Like I said....if people admit guilt and or are found guilty (barring serious political shenagins)....

nail their asses to the wall...

WTF else do you want me to say?

That I get the shivers every time I miss something about this particular scandal....that I wank off every time somebody involved in this "gets off" (heh) so to speak.

Yeah, I might argue principle and evidence and rules of law and spirit of law and shit about this particular detail or that nuance of law...

Then again, as far as scandals go this is pretty low on the radar for me....

But, let me repeat for the retarded of hearing....

You hold up traffic for some dick ball reason...and bad shit happens...well, enjoy your time in jail...

Last edited by billfish678; 09-24-2016 at 10:44 PM.
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