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  #151  
Old 03-13-2019, 08:20 PM
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Of course. I'm just explaining why it might seem worth doing to people with more money than pride or ethics.
I wasn't referring to your posts specifically, just wanted to make the point.
  #152  
Old 03-13-2019, 08:26 PM
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A lot of the discussion on "Why these schools and not others?" seems to miss one of the main criteria for picking these schools: These were the ones where there were "side door" people who would facilitate this for a price.

Not that other schools didn't have anyone susceptible to this activity, but it required a connection established with the main actor, and I'm going to assume he just didn't have time to suborn someone in all of the universities in the country.
  #153  
Old 03-13-2019, 08:28 PM
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A lot of the discussion on "Why these schools and not others?" seems to miss one of the main criteria for picking these schools: These were the ones where there were "side door" people who would facilitate this for a price.

Not that other schools didn't have anyone susceptible to this activity, but it required a connection established with the main actor, and I'm going to assume he just didn't have time to suborn someone in all of the universities in the country.
It's quite possible they've all been suborned by some other college admissions fixer.
  #154  
Old 03-13-2019, 08:34 PM
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It's quite possible they've all been suborned by some other college admissions fixer.
I agree. Now that people know what to look for, I bet more of these guys will slither out from under the rocks. This particular company can't be unique.
  #155  
Old 03-13-2019, 09:54 PM
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They can't go after the kids for much. Some of them committed no crime. I assume none of them gave any money to anyone. The feds have restrictions in charging minors, and even if charged and eventually tried they will be sympathetic to a jury because they were doing the bidding of their criminal parents.
Those poor kids are screwed for the rest of their lives. "Your parents thought you were so dumb that they had to bribe your way into college."
If I were one of them I'd say "give me my inheritance early. I'm walking."
  #156  
Old 03-13-2019, 10:51 PM
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Which law are they accused of violating? I'm not being obtuse; prior to this story I had no idea that trying to bribe you son or daughter's way into college was a crime. A good way to get shown the door, sure, but a crime?
Right. If the admissions page had a segment advertising "white glove VIP onboarding" and a fee schedule, it would be totally legit (and the funds would go into the general budget). But in this case, the applicant is paying an admissions counselor or some other school bureaucrat "under the table". Institutions don't like it when their employees operate a side business like that. Too much like lobbying in Washington, doncha know.
  #157  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:15 PM
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Making a sizeable donation to the Alumni Association has been one way to get a kid accepted into school. AFAIK that's legal.

I know in this case individuals were paid off.

Still, it seems like the Government is using a 10 ton boulder to squash an ant.

A million dollar bail for Lori Loughlin? Where's Aunt Becky going to run with that famous face?

I guess these people will be made examples of. Put the fear into anyone else that wants to bribe a college official.

I dislike seeing power abused just to drive home a point.

Last edited by aceplace57; 03-13-2019 at 11:17 PM.
  #158  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:31 PM
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Making a sizeable donation to the Alumni Association has been one way to get a kid accepted into school. AFAIK that's legal.

I know in this case individuals were paid off.

Still, it seems like the Government is using a 10 ton boulder to squash an ant.

A million dollar bail for Lori Loughlin? Where's Aunt Becky going to run with that famous face?

I guess these people will be made examples of. Put the fear into anyone else that wants to bribe a college official.

I dislike seeing power abused just to drive home a point.
How is this an abuse of power? So far everybody is out walking around free. What should have been done differently?

I don't think a million dollar bail is really necessary for Lori Loughlin but there's nothing unusual about that when millionaires are involved in fraud. And remember that she paid a $500,000 bribe to get by the rules so her daughter could party at USC so why would you take her word that she'll show up in court and take the chance of serving time.

Last edited by TriPolar; 03-13-2019 at 11:34 PM.
  #159  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:39 PM
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A reasonable bond would be a good start. No one got their legs broke, no one got beat up.

Allegedly bribes were paid and false paperwork filed. It deserves prosecution, but yesterday's raid seemed a bit over zealous.

These people's attorneys could have arranged for their clients to turn themselves in.

Last edited by aceplace57; 03-13-2019 at 11:44 PM.
  #160  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:41 PM
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A reasonable bond would be a good start. No one got their legs broke, no one got beat up.

Allegedly bribes were paid and false paperwork filed. It deserves prosecution, but yesterday's raid seemed a bit over zealous.
Do you think you'd be treated less zealously if you were being arrested on the same charges?
  #161  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:49 PM
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I don't know.

It seems like these famous people were singled out and used to send a message.

Maybe not. Lets see how terrible the celebrity's actions actually were.

Did they devise this plan? Or did they make use of a illegal system already firmly established?

Last edited by aceplace57; 03-13-2019 at 11:53 PM.
  #162  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:52 PM
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A reasonable bond would be a good start. No one got their legs broke, no one got beat up.

Allegedly bribes were paid and false paperwork filed. It deserves prosecution, but yesterday's raid seemed a bit over zealous.

These people's attorneys could have arranged for their clients to turn themselves in.
The family net worth is apparently well over $100m, so this is less than 1% of that. They cpupd probably raise the cash, ao they will get it all back.
  #163  
Old 03-14-2019, 12:09 AM
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I don't know.

It seems like these famous people were singled out and used to send a message.

Maybe not. Lets see how terrible the celebrity's actions actually were.

Did they devise this plan? Or did they make use of a illegal system already firmly established?
They weren't singled out. They broke the law and were found out during the investigation. And most of the people named were not famous, per se, just wealthy enough and unethical enough to pull it off...until they got caught.

And they weren't charged with creating the system. They were charged with using it, which is illegal. Furthermore, they knew it was illegal, though as any lawyer will tell you, ignorance of the law is no excuse.
  #164  
Old 03-14-2019, 01:34 AM
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A reasonable bond would be a good start. No one got their legs broke, no one got beat up.

Allegedly bribes were paid and false paperwork filed. It deserves prosecution, but yesterday's raid seemed a bit over zealous.

These people's attorneys could have arranged for their clients to turn themselves in.
What do you consider to be a reasonable bond? Bail is not a punishment. Bail is a surety guaranteeing a court appearance in lieu of staying in jail. One of the factors is the defendants ability to flee the jurisdiction of the court. These people all have the financial ability to flee prosecution. In the case of Loughlin the judge is even allowing her to leave the country for work. The price for that is a high bond. And as for the ďraidĒ It seems like a very standard procedure for taking any suspect into custody. You donít get a pass because you have a big bank account. These are charges that could have serious jail time attached. Thatís how theyíre being treated.
  #165  
Old 03-14-2019, 01:39 AM
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I don't know.

It seems like these famous people were singled out and used to send a message.

Maybe not. Lets see how terrible the celebrity's actions actually were.

Did they devise this plan? Or did they make use of a illegal system already firmly established?
2 people out of 50 were famous. 3 if you know fashion designers. Personally I had never heard of Loughlin’s husband before this. That is not being singled out. This investigation started from information received during a completely different unrelated investigation. Someone was attempting to use fraudulent test data to enter several Boston area schools. Once the FBI picked up on that Investigation led where it led. I’m sure they had no idea the beginning of it that two actors were going to get arrested.

Last edited by Loach; 03-14-2019 at 01:57 AM.
  #166  
Old 03-14-2019, 02:48 AM
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This will be in the news for quite awhile. The size and scope of the criminal activity could take years to get through the courts The BBC has a good article that summarizes what's currently known.

Loughlin should have made a legal contribution to USC. Maybe setup up an endowment or scholarship in the Arts? It's beyond stupid to let your kids use athletic scholarships when they aren't athletes.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47557056

Last edited by aceplace57; 03-14-2019 at 02:50 AM.
  #167  
Old 03-14-2019, 07:57 AM
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Felicity Huffman, Lori Loughlin indicted in Ivy League bribery scheme


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2 people out of 50 were famous. 3 if you know fashion designers. Personally I had never heard of Loughlin’s husband before this. That is not being singled out. This investigation started from information received during a completely different unrelated investigation. Someone was attempting to use fraudulent test data to enter several Boston area schools. Once the FBI picked up on that Investigation led where it led. I’m sure they had no idea the beginning of it that two actors were going to get arrested.


Yeah it only looks “singled out” because those being the ones who are celebrities, they are the ones who make the papers and newscasts.

As to the bribed v. donations thing, ISTM the issue is that this scheme was to pay third parties to fabricate qualifications (test scores, sports history) so as to make a false representation to the decision makers about the merit of the application, so as to induce a decision against policy.

If there is a policy to easily admit/retain the children of big donors, or the star athletes, that’s allowed... but they have to actually be that.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 03-14-2019 at 07:59 AM.
  #168  
Old 03-14-2019, 08:08 AM
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Yeah it only looks ďsingled outĒ because those being the ones who are celebrities, they are the ones who make the papers and newscasts.
...
Also because you never hear about all of the poor people that spend hundreds of thousands of dollars bribing their kids' way into college.
  #169  
Old 03-14-2019, 09:01 AM
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This will be in the news for quite awhile. The size and scope of the criminal activity could take years to get through the courts The BBC has a good article that summarizes what's currently known.

Loughlin should have made a legal contribution to USC. Maybe setup up an endowment or scholarship in the Arts? It's beyond stupid to let your kids use athletic scholarshipswhen they aren't athletes.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47557056
It's not stupid, it's WRONG. Do you think it's wrong?

And that's not what they did. They paid coaches to say they intended to put the kids on teams like water polo or crew. There were no scholarships.

Imagine some kid. He's worked really hard at school, has good grades and all that, and he's also amazing at rowing. Has gotten up every day at 4:00 AM for 4 years to go to crew practice. Starting sophomore year, the USC coach showed interest in him, so he doubled his efforts, knowing this was the best way to get into a selective schools. Endless practices, meets, injuries. The whole time, the USC coach is checking in on him, giving him tips, telling him everything is on track and he's a great candidate. Then, one day, the USC coach just ghosts him. Kid can't figure out what he did wrong: his stats are as good as ever, he's at his peak, he's well within the academic guidelines the coach told him he had to meet. But now the guy won't return his calls and the kid gets rejected from the school he was all but promised admission to--a school with great financial aid, as well, so if he'd gotten in, he could have afforded to go. Now he's gotta find another school, and hope he can walk on to the crew team. He will always wonder what happened--did he say something that pissed off the coach? Did some other kid call the coach and tell a lie about him? Was there something in a teacher's rec letter? He will wrack his brains trying to figure it out.

What he didn't know, of course, is that it wasn't about him at all. Someone paid the coach $500K to "make room" for him.

Finally, $500k scholarship wouldn't have gotten a weak kid into USC.
  #170  
Old 03-14-2019, 09:09 AM
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I do wonder if the Feds understood the timing on all this. Admissions decisions for highly selective schools start rolling out this week: MIT is always today (Pi day; they think that's cute). CalTech was Saturday because they always go before MIT. The rest roll out between now and the 1st, with Ivy Day (the 28th this year) being basically the climax.

Anyway, this is JUST early enough for most of those schools to call their coaches in and say "Are you SURE all the recruited athletes you recommended are legit?" I can't believe this was the only dude bribing coaches.
  #171  
Old 03-14-2019, 09:17 AM
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Imagine some kid. He's worked really hard at school, has good grades and all that, and he's also amazing at rowing. Has gotten up every day at 4:00 AM for 4 years to go to crew practice. Starting sophomore year, the USC coach showed interest in him, so he doubled his efforts, knowing this was the best way to get into a selective schools. Endless practices, meets, injuries. The whole time, the USC coach is checking in on him, giving him tips, telling him everything is on track and he's a great candidate. Then, one day, the USC coach just ghosts him. Kid can't figure out what he did wrong: his stats are as good as ever, he's at his peak, he's well within the academic guidelines the coach told him he had to meet. But now the guy won't return his calls and the kid gets rejected from the school he was all but promised admission to--a school with great financial aid, as well, so if he'd gotten in, he could have afforded to go. Now he's gotta find another school, and hope he can walk on to the crew team. He will always wonder what happened--did he say something that pissed off the coach? Did some other kid call the coach and tell a lie about him? Was there something in a teacher's rec letter? He will wrack his brains trying to figure it out.

What he didn't know, of course, is that it wasn't about him at all. Someone paid the coach $500K to "make room" for him.
Kudos for the very best I've read on this subject so far!
  #172  
Old 03-14-2019, 10:53 AM
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I read in an article:

"Mr Giannulli faced the same charges on Tuesday and was forced to put the family's house up as collateral to pay his $1m bond."

He's worth 80M and she's worth 8M. Why do they have to put their house up as collateral?
  #173  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:00 AM
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I read in an article:

"Mr Giannulli faced the same charges on Tuesday and was forced to put the family's house up as collateral to pay his $1m bond."

He's worth 80M and she's worth 8M. Why do they have to put their house up as collateral?
Probably easier and lower risk than liquidating other assets. It's probably a real low rate of interest. They know they aren't fleeing, so it won't be for long.
  #174  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:11 AM
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Maybe someone can confirm or clarify something for me?

Loughlin has been accused of paying a coach to say her daughters are on the rowing team? That got them accepted at UCA.

There's also very troubling reports of cheating on the entrance exams. Employees falsifying test results. Academic fraud is very serious.

I haven't seen any claims Loughlin's daughters were involved in the exam cheating?

That's my impression of the reporting.

Either way it's serious and some people may end up in jail.
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Authorities say Ms Loughlin and her husband, designer Mossimo Giannulli, paid $500,000 in bribes to have their two daughters admitted into the University of Southern California (USC) as fake rowing-team recruits.

The accused parents - many of whom are celebrities or CEOs of major companies - allegedly paid a firm up to $6.5m (£4.9m) to cheat on students' college entrance exams or bribe top coaches to offer fake athletic scholarships for non-athletic students.
  #175  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:18 AM
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There is no evidence they were criminally involved, no.

It is, however, rather impossible to believe her kid didn't know something.
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  #176  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:18 AM
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But they posed for fake photos indicating they were rowers, I thought.

That doesn’t exactly scream ‘We couldn’t have known!’

Maybe make anyone so admitted resit their entrance exams, if they can pass they get to keep their degrees! If they don’t, they don’t. (Give them a few months to study first.)
  #177  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:24 AM
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But they posed for fake photos indicating they were rowers, I thought.
Someone said earlier that some of the photos (didn't say which) were stock photos with these kids' (again, not saying which kids) heads photoshopped on. If so, the parents could have provided photos the and the kids been ignorant of that.
  #178  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:25 AM
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I wonder how many coaches were approached and turned them down, surely there were some who said no.
  #179  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:26 AM
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Maybe someone can confirm or clarify something for me?

Loughlin has been accused of paying a coach to say her daughters are on the rowing team? That got them accepted at UCA.

There's also very troubling reports of cheating on the entrance exams. Employees falsifying test results. Academic fraud is very serious.

I haven't seen any claims Loughlin's daughters were involved in the exam cheating?

That's my impression of the reporting.

Either way it's serious and some people may end up in jail.
Maybe, just like these kids, you can do your own homework. Everything youíve asked is already in this thread.
  #180  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:28 AM
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It would be poetic justice to tell those girls you're on the rowing team. That means you get up at 5AM and train with the team.

Their hands would be blistered by the end of the first day.

4 long years of rowing. That would teach them a lesson they'd never forget.

Last edited by aceplace57; 03-14-2019 at 11:29 AM.
  #181  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:33 AM
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Maybe someone can confirm or clarify something for me?

Loughlin has been accused of paying a coach to say her daughters are on the rowing team? That got them accepted at UCA.

There's also very troubling reports of cheating on the entrance exams. Employees falsifying test results. Academic fraud is very serious.

I haven't seen any claims Loughlin's daughters were involved in the exam cheating?

That's my impression of the reporting.
Yes, that seems to be accurate.

As has been noted repeatedly in this thread, there were two different methods involved in this scheme, though both boiled down to "parents paying bribes to get their kids into certain colleges":
- Paying college coaches to recruit their kids for their teams, despite the fact that the kids did not actually compete in those sports in high school
- Paying to have your kid's SAT or ACT scores manipulated (through someone else taking the test for your kid, a proctor helping your kid during the test, or results being doctored after the kid took the test)

My reading of the reports is that Loughlin and her husband are accused of participating in the first type of scheme; Huffman is accused of participating in the second.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 03-14-2019 at 11:34 AM.
  #182  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:34 AM
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I wonder how many coaches were approached and turned them down, surely there were some who said no.
I find it hard to believe that the Athletic Director and his staff didn't know something was going on.

That must of been an interesting conversation between the AD and his coach. Why do you list extra people on the team and where are they?

Last edited by aceplace57; 03-14-2019 at 11:36 AM.
  #183  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:39 AM
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That must of been an interesting conversation between the AD and his coach. Why do you list extra people on the team and where are they?
I think it''s unlikely that the coaches were listing "extra" people; read Manda JO's excellent post #169 (and remember that she speaks from experience -- her job involves helping high schoolers get into colleges). What's more likely is that the coaches quietly "dropped" the kids who they were getting accepted into the schools via the bribes after they had enrolled, and replacing them on the teams with walk-ons.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 03-14-2019 at 11:40 AM.
  #184  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:41 AM
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I find it hard to believe that the Athletic Director and his staff didn't know something was going on.

That must of been an interesting conversation between the AD and his coach. Why do you list extra people on the team and where are they?
If there's no scholarship associated with being on the team, there is generally no penalty for not joining the team. I would guess that it's not uncommon for prospective athletes to later decide to not play that sport once in college for a variety of legitimate reasons.
  #185  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:45 AM
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Yes, that seems to be accurate.

As has been noted several times in this thread, there were two different methods involved in this scheme, though both boiled down to "parents paying bribes to get their kids into certain colleges":
- Paying college coaches to recruit their kids for their teams, despite the fact that the kids did not actually compete in those sports in high school
- Paying to have your kid's SAT or ACT scores manipulated (through someone else taking the test for your kid, a proctor helping your kid during the test, or results being doctored after the kid took the test)

My reading of the reports is that Loughlin and her husband are accused of participating in the first type of scheme; Huffman is accused of participating in the second.

They aren't mutually exclusive. The admissions committee won't take just anyone the coaches recommend: they have to meet certain academic standards, as long as just generally seem like the sort of kids you want. If a coach says he wants you for his tennis team, and you write your essay on why Hitler was reacting to a reasonable threat from Zionists, you aren't getting in. If you have an SAT of 950, you aren't getting in. The process is basically:

1. Coaches scout and recommend
2. Admissions briefly reviews file and makes a decision. Absent red flags, they will accept.
3. Notice that this acceptance is not explicitly linked to the sport. The acceptance letter doesn't say "You are accepted because we want you to play water polo for us". It's the exact same acceptance every other kid gets, and it's not conditional.
3. At USC, the next stage would be offering financial aid (not a scholarship) if the kid was middle class or lower.

So first you find a coach you can bribe. The coach gives you an idea of the profile he needs the student to match (which he knows-- the admissions people let him know, so that he doesn't spend a bunch of time recruiting kids they won't take). Next, you have to get your kid to meet that minimum standard. So you arrange for cheating on the SAT. Then, you have to make the application look right for the admissions committee--that's where the doctored photos and faked resumes and such come in. I'm also pretty positive that these people wrote the essays and supplements as well: I can't imagine that was left to chance.

Then no one ever notices the kids aren't actually on the team. There's no sport-specific money at play, and the people in the admissions office don't double-check the vollyball team to make sure everyone the coaches recommended actually ends up playing. And if for some reason an admissions officer did notice one or two didn't play--that's actually not utterly unheard of. Sometimes students have an injury, or there's actual walk-ons that are stronger than them. And lots quit after the first year or two because they discover they don't like college sports. They are totally allowed to do that.
  #186  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:48 AM
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I find it hard to believe that the Athletic Director and his staff didn't know something was going on.

That must of been an interesting conversation between the AD and his coach. Why do you list extra people on the team and where are they?
The AD at a big sports school doesnít know the minutae of every team. He relies on his staff. An assistant AD at USC was indicted. With USC the Athletic Director is Lynn Swann. He got the job in 2016 after a lot of this took place and the corruption was already well hidden.
  #187  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:49 AM
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I find it hard to believe that the Athletic Director and his staff didn't know something was going on.

That must of been an interesting conversation between the AD and his coach. Why do you list extra people on the team and where are they?
It would never cross the ADs desk. These programs are HUGE, and we are talking about water polo and volleyball. How many hours a week does the AD put into overseeing the water polo team? The "recruit" list is made by the coach and sent to the admission's people. It doesn't go through the AD at all, and it's not the list of whose on the team. The actual list of whose on the team isn't put together until after school starts.
  #188  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Manda JO View Post
They aren't mutually exclusive. The admissions committee won't take just anyone the coaches recommend: they have to meet certain academic standards, as long as just generally seem like the sort of kids you want. If a coach says he wants you for his tennis team, and you write your essay on why Hitler was reacting to a reasonable threat from Zionists, you aren't getting in. If you have an SAT of 950, you aren't getting in.
Good point, and thank you for adding the additional information.
  #189  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:55 AM
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Then no one ever notices the kids aren't actually on the team. There's no sport-specific money at play, and the people in the admissions office don't double-check the vollyball team to make sure everyone the coaches recommended actually ends up playing. And if for some reason an admissions officer did notice one or two didn't play--that's actually not utterly unheard of. Sometimes students have an injury, or there's actual walk-ons that are stronger than them. And lots quit after the first year or two because they discover they don't like college sports. They are totally allowed to do that.
I tried to say the same thing earlier but you did it much better. Coaches recruit freshman that donít make the team all the time. Itís expected so itís easy to hide unqualified people that way. I remember when I was at Maryland there was a 7 foot tall guy who worked in the library. The story was he was recruited for the basketball team (obviously) and then they found out he had a health condition that kept him from ever playing. They didnít kick him out of school even though he didnít play a minute of basketball. There are many legitimate stories like that at every college.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:57 AM
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Thank you. I understand the alleged scheme much better.

Last edited by aceplace57; 03-14-2019 at 11:59 AM.
  #191  
Old 03-14-2019, 12:00 PM
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I tried to say the same thing earlier but you did it much better. Coaches recruit freshman that donít make the team all the time. Itís expected so itís easy to hide unqualified people that way. I remember when I was at Maryland there was a 7 foot tall guy who worked in the library. The story was he was recruited for the basketball team (obviously) and then they found out he had a health condition that kept him from ever playing. They didnít kick him out of school even though he didnít play a minute of basketball. There are many legitimate stories like that at every college.
Which is exactly why they won't take kids that are just pathetically unqualified. Schools like this are so competitive that kids that are way below the "normal" standard can still do fine: they aren't generally insisting on SATs of 1450 because that's what it takes to do the work: they set the standard so high because they have so many applications that they can. They know damn well that a kid with a 1300 can do fine at the school--but a kid with an 1100 will not. So they will take that 1300 if the kid brings the potential of other skills--including filling a slot on a team. But if the kid doesn't take that role, that's fine. They aren't unqualified to be there, by any means. They are just on the low end.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:03 PM
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I wonder if this will cut way back on the ability of coaches to make admission recommendations. Although I strongly support most college sports, it does seem a little odd that "being good at sport" puts you at the head of the line to get into an educational institution. Maybe being good at a sport will become just something that makes you look well rounded rather than a highly desirable aspect to get into the school
  #193  
Old 03-14-2019, 12:13 PM
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I wonder if this will cut way back on the ability of coaches to make admission recommendations. Although I strongly support most college sports, it does seem a little odd that "being good at sport" puts you at the head of the line to get into an educational institution. Maybe being good at a sport will become just something that makes you look well rounded rather than a highly desirable aspect to get into the school
If I were one of the implicated schools, Iíd assign an independent employee to background check all coachís picks going forward. The elite will find another way in though.
  #194  
Old 03-14-2019, 12:34 PM
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New oxymoron


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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
This will be in the news for quite awhile. The size and scope of the criminal activity could take years to get through the courts The BBC has a good article that summarizes what's currently known.

Loughlin should have made a legal contribution to USC. Maybe setup up an endowment or scholarship in the Arts? It's beyond stupid to let your kids use athletic scholarshipswhen they aren't athletes.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47557056
Frankly, athletic scholarships are an oxymoron, with the emphasis on the moron. But trying to get a room temperature intellect into college on an athletic scholarship and not even turning up for training is, well, beyond dumb.

In the last resort, what is a reasonable penalty for this sort of thing? People here have suggested punishments more on a level with someone who committed a violent crime.
  #195  
Old 03-14-2019, 12:44 PM
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Frankly, athletic scholarships are an oxymoron, with the emphasis on the moron. But trying to get a room temperature intellect into college on an athletic scholarship and not even turning up for training is, well, beyond dumb.

In the last resort, what is a reasonable penalty for this sort of thing? People here have suggested punishments more on a level with someone who committed a violent crime.
As as been pointed out multiple times, there were no athletic scholarships involved with this.

The reasonable punishment is what others have gotten for fraud in this scale. No one has been punished yet but so far they have been treated the same as people in that past accused of similar levels of fraud. Your comparison to violent crime makes no sense to me. Can you cite some examples?
  #196  
Old 03-14-2019, 12:49 PM
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Let the lawsuits begin!
  #197  
Old 03-14-2019, 01:15 PM
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Wait, they actually got into Stanford and yet they're suing University of San Diego, Yale and USC because they didn't get in there? Are they crazy? Their school is better than two of those and probably all three. Plus the article says, "the lawsuit seeks $5,000,001 on behalf of what the lawyers estimate will be thousands of plaintiffs who fit the criteria to seek class status." Do they know basic math?
  #198  
Old 03-14-2019, 01:30 PM
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Wait, they actually got into Stanford and yet they're suing University of San Diego, Yale and USC because they didn't get in there? Are they crazy? Their school is better than two of those and probably all three. Plus the article says, "the lawsuit seeks $5,000,001 on behalf of what the lawyers estimate will be thousands of plaintiffs who fit the criteria to seek class status." Do they know basic math?
Actually, I can see a potential complaint. USC has one of the largest and most generous merit scholarship programs out there, and it's really specifically aimed at upper-middle class kids who could get into a top-10 school but would have to pay the full $70k/year. It's a big deal: they send you a fancy invitation and fly you out for a two day sales pitch, I mean, campus tour. At the end of it, they offer 1/2 those kids full tuition. And there's quite a few kids that opt for USC for the cost of room and board over Dartmouth or Cornell or even Standford at full price. There are not that many schools as prestigious as USC that have merit-based aid like that.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:49 PM
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Thanks for that. I was not aware of that USC program. You're right that it's quite generous and I can well understand why someone would go to USC rather than one of the other schools.

BTW, perhaps you can answer a question for me. I graduated high school in 1984 and when I was contemplating college choices, the guidance counselor advised me which schools were "stretches", which were safety schools and which were in the middle. Meanwhile, my brother's kids graduated high school in 2012 and 2016 and didn't get that kind of advice. So I was touring schools that my nephew had no chance of getting into (good grades but a terrible SAT score). (Although it's a lot of fun to tour these schools. The really elite ones are amazing places. I wish I was 18 again and could go to school for the first time all over again.)

So do high school counselors still advise students which schools to consider?

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 03-14-2019 at 01:50 PM.
  #200  
Old 03-14-2019, 02:03 PM
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Thanks for that. I was not aware of that USC program. You're right that it's quite generous and I can well understand why someone would go to USC rather than one of the other schools.

BTW, perhaps you can answer a question for me. I graduated high school in 1984 and when I was contemplating college choices, the guidance counselor advised me which schools were "stretches", which were safety schools and which were in the middle. Meanwhile, my brother's kids graduated high school in 2012 and 2016 and didn't get that kind of advice. So I was touring schools that my nephew had no chance of getting into (good grades but a terrible SAT score). (Although it's a lot of fun to tour these schools. The really elite ones are amazing places. I wish I was 18 again and could go to school for the first time all over again.)

So do high school counselors still advise students which schools to consider?
I don't know about the counselors, but that is the advice I give to both of my kids (one is currently in college). Above all, we encourage applying to schools "where you want to be", with some of them stretch and some safe. It wont do anyone any favors going to any school where they don't want to be, no matter how prestigious.
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