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  #251  
Old 04-09-2019, 02:51 PM
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Caitlin Flanagan pens a masterpiece on this for The Atlantic. It is practically a film treatment

"They Had It Coming" -- https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...eveals/586468/
That's one of the best essays I've read in years. Thank you!
  #252  
Old 04-09-2019, 03:00 PM
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Caitlin Flanagan pens a masterpiece on this for The Atlantic. It is practically a film treatment

"They Had It Coming" -- https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...eveals/586468/
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That was a thing of beauty.
Aye; well worth the time.
  #253  
Old 04-09-2019, 03:01 PM
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BTW, Caitlin Flanagan's piece in The Atlantic seemed to avoid saying the name of the private school where she taught English. But in case you're curious, the description matches Harvard-Westlake School. And yes, from everything I've heard, it's the most prestigious private school in Southern California.
  #254  
Old 04-09-2019, 03:01 PM
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Looks like Lori Loughlin might be going to the Fuller House: LORI LOUGHLIN AND HUBBY JUST INDICTED FOR ADDITIONAL CHARGE OF MONEY LAUNDERING

As breathlessly reported,



This is from TMZ, America's most trusted source for news.
She, her husband and their lawyers must think that they have a very good chance of getting away with it. I wonder what their game plan is. Could they be trying to get off on a technicality?
  #255  
Old 04-09-2019, 03:08 PM
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BTW, Caitlin Flanagan's piece in The Atlantic seemed to avoid saying the name of the private school where she taught English. But in case you're curious, the description matches Harvard-Westlake School. And yes, from everything I've heard, it's the most prestigious private school in Southern California.
I am pretty sure that that's what it was as well. I went to a fairly rough public High School in L.A. a few years before the author was working for the private school. I knew one kid (friend of a friend) who went there and the entitlement was through the roof. He actually was a highly ranked youth tennis player so I am sure he got into a very good school on a legitimate sports scholarship.

...I just Googled him and he did play tennis for an Ivy. Was a pro tennis player for a while and is now a very highly regarded coach. Good for him.

Last edited by hajario; 04-09-2019 at 03:10 PM.
  #256  
Old 04-09-2019, 03:15 PM
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She, her husband and their lawyers must think that they have a very good chance of getting away with it. I wonder what their game plan is. Could they be trying to get off on a technicality?
She and her husband certainly do. They wouldn't be the first rich, entitled people who think they're smarter than their very expensive lawyers however.
  #257  
Old 04-09-2019, 03:36 PM
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This is from TMZ, America's most trusted source for news.
It pains me to say it, but they get it right most of the time.

As for prison, they'll go to a cushy minimum security facility as Martha Stewart did.
  #258  
Old 04-09-2019, 03:49 PM
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Caitlin Flanagan pens a masterpiece on this for The Atlantic. It is practically a film treatment

"They Had It Coming" -- https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...eveals/586468/
A superb piece from someone whose experiences as a college counselor at a private school are enlightening, to say the least. Thanks so much for the link!
  #259  
Old 04-09-2019, 07:11 PM
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She, her husband and their lawyers must think that they have a very good chance of getting away with it. I wonder what their game plan is. Could they be trying to get off on a technicality?
I hate that term. There are very few technicalities. For the most part what people call a technicality is a purposeful or inadvertent constitutional violation. This early on but I doubt they even have discovery.
  #260  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:52 PM
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I hate that term. There are very few technicalities. For the most part what people call a technicality is a purposeful or inadvertent constitutional violation. This early on but I doubt they even have discovery.
I get you.

I wonder what their strategy is. They already got a charge added for not taking a plea yet. Could they try to claim entrapment? Hope for a hold out juror? Is there any argument for a constitutional violation. I know that we haven't seen all of the evidence yet but we can still speculate.

On a related subject, I wonder how many other Singers there are out there and it this is the tip of the ice burg.
  #261  
Old 04-10-2019, 01:37 AM
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Looks like Lori Loughlin might be going to the Fuller House: LORI LOUGHLIN AND HUBBY JUST INDICTED FOR ADDITIONAL CHARGE OF MONEY LAUNDERING
Who says there is no good news anymore.
If they convict her, Lori will be first in line for the remake of "Orange is the New Black." Though by that time it might be Orange is the New Gray.
  #262  
Old 04-10-2019, 09:08 AM
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I get you.

I wonder what their strategy is. They already got a charge added for not taking a plea yet. Could they try to claim entrapment? Hope for a hold out juror? Is there any argument for a constitutional violation. I know that we haven't seen all of the evidence yet but we can still speculate.

On a related subject, I wonder how many other Singers there are out there and it this is the tip of the ice burg.
It’s early yet. Like I said I doubt they’ve received full discovery yet. They may just be waiting to see how it plays out. The lawyer has to know that the FBI doesn’t go forward with a high profile case unless they are 110% sure of a conviction. Of course that doesn’t mean it’s a guarantee of a win but they are usually right.
  #263  
Old 04-10-2019, 09:30 AM
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One of the interesting points from that article that I hadn't previously considered: Loughlin's daughter Olivia Jade already had a successful cosmetics line and YouTube channel, both of which have now tanked. If her parents had left her to her own devices she could well have been a self-made millionaire. Now her brand is destroyed.

Way to go, Mom and Dad.
  #264  
Old 04-10-2019, 03:42 PM
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It's also proof that you don't have to go to college to run a successful business/brand. Yeah, nice way to screw your kid over mom and dad - should have listened to her when she said she didn't want to go to a university, you could have plowed that money into, say, expanding your daughter's business venture, or bought several lifetimes of toilet paper, or something else useful.
  #265  
Old 04-10-2019, 04:16 PM
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One of the interesting points from that article that I hadn't previously considered: Loughlin's daughter Olivia Jade already had a successful cosmetics line and YouTube channel, both of which have now tanked. If her parents had left her to her own devices she could well have been a self-made millionaire. Now her brand is destroyed.

Way to go, Mom and Dad.
On the other hand: if it weren't for the connections she made because of her parents the Youtube channel probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful and the cosmetics line probably wouldn't have happened.
  #266  
Old 04-10-2019, 04:31 PM
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On a related subject, I wonder how many other Singers there are out there and it this is the tip of the ice burg.
Follow the money. With high stakes at hand, easily leveraged loopholes, and a lot of money, sadly, I think you are probably right.

Since this has been going on since forever, I think it interesting to ponder people already thru the mill and well into their careers now, who may have taken short cuts to prestigious degrees, and are now in leadership positions at various companies, or politicians - will the truth ever see the light of day?

Anyone who ever benefited from something like this should probably sleep with an eye open, or keep looking over their shoulder.
  #267  
Old 04-10-2019, 04:49 PM
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I found the Caitlin Flanagan article in The Atlantic to be pretty "meh". The only point she makes that I think should be drummed into everyone's head is that most of the cheaters worked in high finance type jobs handling other people's money and had no ethics issues at all in doing this. Even when some of the actions involved criminal payments.

Yet almost everyone focuses on the actresses. (And often ignore the husbands!) You have to ask yourself why the media is covering it like this.

And yes, it is the tip of the tip of the iceberg. Thousands of rich families have been doing this all the time.

The worst part of the article was trying to play this as some sort of white backlash. Nope. It's all about wealth.

Also, Olivia Jade is going to be at "work" as a social network influencer in no time at all. She will be again making money most of us can't really imagine. This is barely a blip in her life. It probably will boost the number of her followers and that's all the advertisers care about.
  #268  
Old 04-10-2019, 04:51 PM
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On the other hand: if it weren't for the connections she made because of her parents the Youtube channel probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful and the cosmetics line probably wouldn't have happened.
True, but Youtube doesn't pay unless you have genuine viewers, and people don't watch unless there is something worth watching.
  #269  
Old 04-10-2019, 04:58 PM
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Yet almost everyone focuses on the actresses. (And often ignore the husbands!) You have to ask yourself why the media is covering it like this.
No mystery, media are aware that people would rather read about the crimes of Lori Loughlin, who they have actually heard of and know about, than Joe McHedgefund.
  #270  
Old 04-10-2019, 05:46 PM
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On the other hand: if it weren't for the connections she made because of her parents the Youtube channel probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful and the cosmetics line probably wouldn't have happened.
Sure - but that's successful networking, isn't it? And a hell of a lot cheaper than bribing your way into USC. If her parents are going to pull strings for her I'd rather they do it by legal networking and promotion of their kid's ventures than illegal bribery.
  #271  
Old 04-10-2019, 06:19 PM
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Sure - but that's successful networking, isn't it? And a hell of a lot cheaper than bribing your way into USC. If her parents are going to pull strings for her I'd rather they do it by legal networking and promotion of their kid's ventures than illegal bribery.
Except it's not really the kid's ventures. There's little more to becoming an influencer than getting approached by an agent (after numerous glam shots of you and mommy on the red carpet hit social media) and posing with products. Celebrities who introduce their own makeup lines basically say, "I like pink! And purple. And green if it isn't too pukey," and wear it for some photos. I'm sure it gets boring, and sometimes they have to act like life is one long party when actually they're hungover, but it's not exactly a venture.

I agree 100%, though, that when your kid is raking in big bucks legally, it makes little sense to push her into college, let alone bribe people to get her in. The kid was fine. She seemed happy. And she'd never have to actually work.
  #272  
Old 04-10-2019, 06:19 PM
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I think Loughlin imagines her Christian cred + her Republican cred, especially in the times of MAGA, when combined with wealth and celebrity make her next to immune. And maybe she IS that well connected, only time will tell. She seems pretty unconcerned by all appearances.
  #273  
Old 04-10-2019, 06:29 PM
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Also, Olivia Jade is going to be at "work" as a social network influencer in no time at all. She will be again making money most of us can't really imagine. This is barely a blip in her life. It probably will boost the number of her followers and that's all the advertisers care about.
I think the bigger deal is that it's not really her fault. The advertisers only left to not have their brands associated with the scandal, and have no reason not to come back once it dies down. No one who didn't hate Olivia before hates her more now.

If it had been a scandal she was a part of, it could have hurt her much worse.
  #274  
Old 04-10-2019, 06:36 PM
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Except it's not really the kid's ventures. There's little more to becoming an influencer than getting approached by an agent (after numerous glam shots of you and mommy on the red carpet hit social media) and posing with products. Celebrities who introduce their own makeup lines basically say, "I like pink! And purple. And green if it isn't too pukey," and wear it for some photos. I'm sure it gets boring, and sometimes they have to act like life is one long party when actually they're hungover, but it's not exactly a venture.
In other words, it's a form of modeling work.

Quote:
I agree 100%, though, that when your kid is raking in big bucks legally, it makes little sense to push her into college, let alone bribe people to get her in. The kid was fine. She seemed happy. And she'd never have to actually work.
Since I don't follow Olivia Jade and I'm unfamiliar with her venture I can't say how much she actually works - even if all she does is act as a front-woman and talking head in videos depending on how much of her time that takes and how she applies herself that could still qualify as work in my mind.

Or she just sells her name and sits back while the bucks roll in.

Either way - I think everyone would have been better off, and maybe happier, if the parents had backed what she did with YouTube and cosmetics rather than pushing her into more schooling that she seemed to have little real interest in attending. And someone else with less money and connections via family might have had her slot and used it to improve their lot in life.
  #275  
Old 04-10-2019, 06:51 PM
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As several articles have pointed out, based on interviews with Lori Loughlin from before the scandal, she wanted her daughters to have the "college experience" because neither she nor her husband attended college. For them it was not about having her daughter get the best education or vaulting her into a successful career, it was solely about "going to college" as a thing they didn't get to do as kids, like visiting Disneyland or getting to play Little League.

Which brings me to the one point that I haven't heard much about in the media -- how this scandal fits into the "think about the children" and helicopter parenting memes. I see this scandal as being as much about "it's okay to do anything, as long as its for the kids, as it is about entitlement of the wealthy. Maybe these parents cut corners everywhere in their lives - cheating on their taxes, not fulfilling contracts, etc. But I get a sense that for at least some of them, their moral compass failed as soon as it came to their children. If willingness to do anything for your child is seen as a virtue, then why draw the line at lying, bribery or fraud?
  #276  
Old 04-10-2019, 07:35 PM
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Or murder?
  #277  
Old 04-10-2019, 08:42 PM
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As several articles have pointed out, based on interviews with Lori Loughlin from before the scandal, she wanted her daughters to have the "college experience" because neither she nor her husband attended college. For them it was not about having her daughter get the best education or vaulting her into a successful career, it was solely about "going to college" as a thing they didn't get to do as kids, like visiting Disneyland or getting to play Little League.

Which brings me to the one point that I haven't heard much about in the media -- how this scandal fits into the "think about the children" and helicopter parenting memes. I see this scandal as being as much about "it's okay to do anything, as long as its for the kids, as it is about entitlement of the wealthy. Maybe these parents cut corners everywhere in their lives - cheating on their taxes, not fulfilling contracts, etc. But I get a sense that for at least some of them, their moral compass failed as soon as it came to their children. If willingness to do anything for your child is seen as a virtue, then why draw the line at lying, bribery or fraud?
And bullying a poor, scared employee of the school where their daughter worked and threatening her job if she didn't back off from telling the school that the crew team claim was bullshit.
  #278  
Old 04-11-2019, 01:44 AM
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As several articles have pointed out, based on interviews with Lori Loughlin from before the scandal, she wanted her daughters to have the "college experience" because neither she nor her husband attended college. For them it was not about having her daughter get the best education or vaulting her into a successful career, it was solely about "going to college" as a thing they didn't get to do as kids, like visiting Disneyland or getting to play Little League.

Which brings me to the one point that I haven't heard much about in the media -- how this scandal fits into the "think about the children" and helicopter parenting memes. I see this scandal as being as much about "it's okay to do anything, as long as its for the kids, as it is about entitlement of the wealthy. Maybe these parents cut corners everywhere in their lives - cheating on their taxes, not fulfilling contracts, etc. But I get a sense that for at least some of them, their moral compass failed as soon as it came to their children. If willingness to do anything for your child is seen as a virtue, then why draw the line at lying, bribery or fraud?
That there was a moral compass even before this is far from clear.
While this might be an example of helicopter parenting (though you could buy a real helicopter for that much money) I think it is more entitlement. They live in LA, they are rich, their kids deserve to be in USC no matter how smart they are or what their grades are.
My ex step-sister lives in La Jolla, and her son and daughter both went to USC. He was definitely smart enough, not sure about her, but they went before USC ramped up admissions requirements. But it seemed the only acceptable choice of school for them.
  #279  
Old 04-11-2019, 04:25 AM
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I think it is more entitlement. They live in LA, they are rich, their kids deserve to be in USC no matter how smart they are or what their grades are.
... or whether or not the kid wants to go to college or whether doing so is in the kid's best interests or not.
  #280  
Old 04-11-2019, 10:14 AM
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... I get a sense that for at least some of them, their moral compass failed as soon as it came to their children. If willingness to do anything for your child is seen as a virtue, then why draw the line at lying, bribery or fraud?
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Or murder?
I'm sure a dozen Hollywood scribes are, even now, tapping away at screenplays exploring just those questions.
  #281  
Old 04-11-2019, 11:09 AM
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I'm guessing it's not going to be a Hallmark Channel movie.
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Old 04-11-2019, 12:29 PM
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Garage Sale Mystery: Varsity Blues
When a college admissions counselor turns up dead in an antique steamer trunk, Jenn suspects foul play.
  #283  
Old 04-11-2019, 12:47 PM
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The Collegians

An FBI agent investigating the largest college fraud ever unknowingly lives across the street from the perpetrators. The movies last line, "... not even Oberlin?" is as devastating as anything spoken aloud by man.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:08 PM
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LOL. Objection - I went to Oberlin!
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Old 04-11-2019, 02:39 PM
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... or whether or not the kid wants to go to college or whether doing so is in the kid's best interests or not.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Lori and Butthead yell at their kids for doing something behind their backs.
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Old 04-12-2019, 05:42 AM
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A few choice bits from an article by People magazine:

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For the last month, Lori Loughlin has grappled with the charges against her in the high-profile college admissions cheating scandal, a source close to the actress tells PEOPLE. “It’s just taking some time for it to sink in that what she was allegedly doing could be considered illegal,” says the source. “To her, it wasn’t egregious behavior. Was it entitled and perhaps selfish? Perhaps. But she didn’t see it as being a legal violation.”
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Quote:
“From the beginning, she didn’t want to take a deal, because she felt that she hadn’t done anything that any mom wouldn’t have done, if they had the means to do so,”
I call this the "everyone else is doing it!" defense. I don't think that works to get you out of consequences either. And no, you selfish twit, not everyone else is doing it, even among those who could.

Quote:
Now things are beginning to sink in for the actress, the source says. “She’s trying to decide what is the best move for her,” says the source. “She has no desire to prolong this for anyone, but she still believes that she deserves a fair outcome.”
From my viewpoint a "fair outcome" is jail time for her. The rules need to apply to the wealthy and famous, too.
  #287  
Old 04-12-2019, 06:48 AM
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Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
And denial runs strong here. Her attorney wasn’t able to talk sense into her? Maybe she knew better than her lawyer.
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From my viewpoint a "fair outcome" is jail time for her. The rules need to apply to the wealthy and famous, too.
The rules don’t and never have, but they can’t be bent too far or the people start to complain.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:56 AM
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The rules don’t and never have, but they can’t be bent too far or the people start to complain.
The rules aren’t and never have been fair . . .
  #289  
Old 04-12-2019, 09:48 AM
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From my viewpoint a "fair outcome" is jail time for her. The rules need to apply to the wealthy and famous, too.
Is your viewpoint based on a knowledge of the legal precedents in this type of case? Because otherwise, I question how "fair" you're really being. These people aren't likely to reoffend, weren't bribing public officials and weren't furthering some other criminal act with their bribery. Jail time seems like a little much.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:54 AM
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In what way is the University of Texas Tennis Coach not a "public official"? I get he's not elected, but he still is supposed to act in the public's interest in an official, if limited, capacity. And he abused that power.

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/ed...d-7677f9d00929

(Video news report starts, so you may wish to turn down the sound before clicking)

Last edited by JohnT; 04-12-2019 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:20 AM
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USC is a private university.

Aside: I was reading an article about how women's rowing is a good target for this scam because universities use it as a counterweight in title IX calculations and thus have really more slots than they need.
https://www.latimes.com/local/califo...412-story.html
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:52 AM
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Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.
  #293  
Old 04-12-2019, 11:05 AM
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Is your viewpoint based on a knowledge of the legal precedents in this type of case? Because otherwise, I question how "fair" you're really being. These people aren't likely to reoffend, weren't bribing public officials and weren't furthering some other criminal act with their bribery. Jail time seems like a little much.
A guidance counselor and the school where Loughlin's kids went noticed that something was fishy when their second kid said that she was on the crew team. The counselor notified USC and when Loughlin and her husband found out they were enraged. They went to the school and terrorized the counselor and, threatened with the loss of her career, had to contact USC and back off on her claim. I suppose they aren't being charged for something specific to that but it's an aggravating factor when considering sentencing.

In addition there is the tax fraud. First offenders go to prison for that all of the time.

Last edited by hajario; 04-12-2019 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:48 AM
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Most people use the word "terrorize" with threats of violence, not career.

I know Huffman disguised her payment as a charity donation- did the others as well? Seems a crazy extra risk to take. Of course, it's only tax fraud if she tried to claim it.
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:05 PM
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I’m not certain what “most people” would say but the dictionary says it means to create an extreme state of fear or distress. Loss of career would qualify.
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:25 PM
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Well, when a judge is deciding sentencing, I have my doubts they'll use the word "terrorizing" when describing her actions towards the counselor. Since we're talking about criminal charges, I think it improper to casually use that word here.
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
I know Huffman disguised her payment as a charity donation- did the others as well? Seems a crazy extra risk to take. Of course, it's only tax fraud if she tried to claim it.
It was an essential part of the scheme. The guy in charge created a fraudulent nonprofit, Key Worldwide Foundation (KWF), and had the parents make their payment to the foundation. Employees of KWF then sent letters to the parents saying that no goods or services were exchanged for the payments, allowing them to claim the charitable deduction.

I read transcripts of several phone calls from the parents in which they asked or were told specifically about the charitable donation aspect.
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:33 PM
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On the one hand, this is a drop in the bucket of national problems. Something like 1% of colleges are these highly selective schools and a tiny fraction of admissions to those are these kind of manipulated/fradulent admissions. I'd rather see us spending our energy on re-vamping testing requirements or financial guidance, or even post-college career placement programs rather than ferretting out every child of privilege who was "coached" into a select college program.

On the other hand, this does reveal serious cracks in our social fabric where the moneyed and famous(particularly celebrities, which Americans worship for some reason) can ignore social norms with virtual impunity. And that's a problem for all of us because it runs up and down the spine of our social networks. Celebrities and the wealthy get away with murder in some cases. "What's your super power?" "I'm rich." begins to sound less like dialogue from a cheesy movie and more like a sad commentary on our society.

Enjoy,
Steven
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SpoilerVirgin View Post
It was an essential part of the scheme. The guy in charge created a fraudulent nonprofit, Key Worldwide Foundation (KWF), and had the parents make their payment to the foundation. Employees of KWF then sent letters to the parents saying that no goods or services were exchanged for the payments, allowing them to claim the charitable deduction.

I read transcripts of several phone calls from the parents in which they asked or were told specifically about the charitable donation aspect.
But why are none of the stories mentioning tax evasion? I find it hard to believe that the IRS doesn't want to get its lumps in.

Eta: my mistake, one of them has been charged with IRS related stuff. Bruce Isackson

Last edited by CarnalK; 04-12-2019 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
Well, when a judge is deciding sentencing, I have my doubts they'll use the word "terrorizing" when describing her actions towards the counselor. Since we're talking about criminal charges, I think it improper to casually use that word here.
Well, the judge may not use the work "terrorizing" - but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been a crime. For example in New York, the crime of coercion in the third degree consists of


Quote:
§ 135.60 Coercion in the third degree.
A person is guilty of coercion in the third degree when he or she
compels or induces a person to engage in conduct which the latter has a
legal right to abstain from engaging in, or to abstain from engaging in
conduct in which he or she has a legal right to engage, or compels or
induces a person to join a group, organization or criminal enterprise
which such latter person has a right to abstain from joining, by means
of instilling in him or her a fear that, if the demand is not complied
with, the actor or another will:

(snip)

9. Perform any other act which would not in itself materially benefit
the actor but which is calculated to harm another person materially with
respect to his or her health, safety, business, calling, career,
financial condition, reputation or personal relationships.
Coercion in the third degree is a class A misdemeanor.

So if they made her fear that she would lose her job if she didn't comply with their demands to contact USC and recant , that would qualify as "coercion" in NY. California very likely has a similar law, although the crime may have a different name.
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