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  #51  
Old 01-04-2020, 02:35 PM
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I loved Ultima 3 and discovered a large-form "pattern" which had me steal tons of loot from the town on the SE island using the 'rot' spell to kill the swarms of guards. Made playing the game so much easier.

The Wii, too, is awesome. Gradius 2 is too hard, though.
I didn't use the rot spell that I recall. There was a town somewhere with a sort of treasure room. Sneak in there, steal all the loot until the guards get wise, then Run! IIRC, make it to the outside world and the guards would forget all about it, you could go back into the town, the treasure would re-spawn and you could do it again. It was kind of a grind, but I was a kid and felt like I'd hacked the game.
  #52  
Old 01-04-2020, 03:12 PM
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I didn't use the rot spell that I recall. There was a town somewhere with a sort of treasure room. Sneak in there, steal all the loot until the guards get wise, then Run! IIRC, make it to the outside world and the guards would forget all about it, you could go back into the town, the treasure would re-spawn and you could do it again. It was kind of a grind, but I was a kid and felt like I'd hacked the game.
There was also a gold cheat on at least the NES version where you save the game, create a new character for your party, insert that character into the party and transfer all their gold to one of the regulars, delete the character, create a new one, etc., ad infinitum until you load up all your character with as much gold as you want. I'm not sure I have the exact details, but it was something like that.

That was a little more "cheaty" than the above examples. I can't remember if I figured it out by myself or if something like Nintendo Power mentioned it. At any rate, there are better and faster ways of getting a lot of gold, but that's the only one I knew at the time.

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  #53  
Old 01-04-2020, 03:26 PM
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STILL IS a great game. I play it to this day (have it on Steam) and there has yet to be a replacement... with one possible exception.

If you haven't tried it, check out Rebel Galaxy. I didn't pick up on it the first time, but it is essentially Pirates! In! SPAAAACE!

Seriously, it is, deep down, a Pirates! clone with added features. You go to a space station (town), visit the bar/tavern, hire goons, upgrade your ship, learn about nearby treasures/armadas/what have you... then go out and loot/pillage/protect, whichever you would prefer. Even the space combat is not at all dissimilar to the ship combat in Pirates!.
The worst thing about Rebel Galaxy was when I completed it and realized I was done.

That game was a beautiful experience, from the “broadsides in space” combat to the dirty biker music to the bright energy weapons against a dark nebula expanse behind it. Just gorgeous.
  #54  
Old 01-04-2020, 04:18 PM
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I didn't use the rot spell that I recall. There was a town somewhere with a sort of treasure room. Sneak in there, steal all the loot until the guards get wise, then Run! IIRC, make it to the outside world and the guards would forget all about it, you could go back into the town, the treasure would re-spawn and you could do it again. It was kind of a grind, but I was a kid and felt like I'd hacked the game.
Yeah, that was it. The rot spell was handy as it reduces all creatures to 1 HP, making the guards a piece of cake, so I didn't have to avoid the guards.
  #55  
Old 01-04-2020, 05:22 PM
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Heh, even back then I tended to be a civic-minded gamer and would avoid killing the guards if I could. Now, Ultima II? I would kill the guards left and right in that one for some reason, but you had to be careful as there was always one immortal guard in every town that could box you into a corner if you got lazy.

I still remember my gold cheat for Ultima II- there was a planet you could visit where the land was in the shape of Pangaea (or did you go back in time? There was definitely a rocket ship and a big CCCP area). Anyway, because of the shape of the land mass one could circumnavigate the globe by heading due east or west, indefinitely. So I would rig my keyboard so that the 'go west' button was mashed down, then go make a sandwich or something. When I came back after 50 circumnavigations or so, the land would have spawned all kinds of monsters that I could demolish (ship cannon?) to mop up. Yeah, I was easily entertained back then.
  #56  
Old 01-05-2020, 09:21 AM
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My main issue is that the OP seems to overinflate their problems, and mix their personal dislike of something or poor ability to do something with actual criticism.
I get confused when DKW takes two games that I consider extremely similar in terms of difficulty (e.g. two entries in the Assassin's Creed franchise) and then claims that one is very easy and the other is insanely, impossibly difficult.

But I agree that the unskippable flying missions in GTA Vice City were a big pain. And I never did complete that dumb RC plane mission in GTA San Andreas. Actually, I never finished GTA San Andreas at all; I failed a bunch of times in a row on the final mission (crashing my car while chasing the fire truck), so I gave up.
  #57  
Old 01-05-2020, 08:16 PM
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I did the RC plane missions in San Andreas; I think David Cross voiced the guy who gave you the missions. But they did suck.
  #58  
Old 01-06-2020, 01:59 AM
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The difficulty scaling mentioned in Ultima 3 didn't ring any bells for me. I quite liked the game on the Apple II. Wikipedia mentions that the 1987 NES version had "Considerable alterations to gameplay" as compared to the 1983 original, and several people who didn't like it have mentioned the NES; I'm guessing that was a bad port issue rather than an issue with the game as written and intended.
  #59  
Old 01-06-2020, 02:46 AM
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The difficulty scaling mentioned in Ultima 3 didn't ring any bells for me. I quite liked the game on the Apple II. Wikipedia mentions that the 1987 NES version had "Considerable alterations to gameplay" as compared to the 1983 original, and several people who didn't like it have mentioned the NES; I'm guessing that was a bad port issue rather than an issue with the game as written and intended.
It's not regarded as a bad port, from what I can tell. Ultima V on the NES is regarded as a bad port. I hated that on the NES and only played through maybe an hour or two before just being pissed off at it. I hear, though, that it is often regarded as the best Ultima for PC players. I wish they had gone with the stylings and interface of the NES version of Ultima IV. Ultima III and IV for the NES seem to be regarded positively, but with a caveat that it is somewhat different from the PC experience of playing it. I didn't get into RPGs until the NES, so when I tried to go back to play Ultima III on the C64, I just couldn't get past what to me was a clunky and ugly interface, but I'm sure to those who started out with the series it's the only way to truly experience the Ultimas.

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  #60  
Old 01-06-2020, 03:35 AM
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There was also a gold cheat on at least the NES version where you save the game, create a new character for your party, insert that character into the party and transfer all their gold to one of the regulars, delete the character, create a new one, etc., ad infinitum until you load up all your character with as much gold as you want. I'm not sure I have the exact details, but it was something like that.

That was a little more "cheaty" than the above examples. I can't remember if I figured it out by myself or if something like Nintendo Power mentioned it. At any rate, there are better and faster ways of getting a lot of gold, but that's the only one I knew at the time.
you could do that for most partied RPGs like might and magic ect ..... id load the premade party except one guy id make and steal all their stuff ... and then reload them until i had a decently outfitted party for the beginning at least
  #61  
Old 01-06-2020, 08:59 AM
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Ultima IV (Quest of the Avatar) on the NES was definitely a flawed game in many ways, but it was still a great game through those flaws. And I once picked up the "original" PC version from Good Old Games, and it was flawed in completely different ways, mostly amounting to the gameplay being clumsier than the NES version, but the narrative being deeper. Give me the original, but with the NES's combat mechanics, and it'd be a game for all time.

NES Ultima III, though, seemed to be nothing but the flaws.
  #62  
Old 01-06-2020, 11:27 AM
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I get confused when DKW takes two games that I consider extremely similar in terms of difficulty (e.g. two entries in the Assassin's Creed franchise) and then claims that one is very easy and the other is insanely, impossibly difficult.
Like Papyrus, DKW finds difficulty in interesting places.

Subnautica is definitely on the hand-holding end of survival games, but I remember an extensive thread in which DKW insisted it was way too difficult, despite all the advice we could give and playing on an easy mode. It seemed to me that he was conflating difficulty with dislike--as if something bad happened early in the game that startled or upset him, and he took a dislike to it. After that, he seemed to just refuse to engage with the game's mechanics, leading to more bad things happening and deepening his dislike.
  #63  
Old 01-06-2020, 01:27 PM
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A tip of the hat to the OP- if you're gonna have a final word, this is how it's done.

But man, I just loved Ultima III. It is responsible for getting me hooked on games as a kid, and was only topped by Ultima IV. The key to both was to take a lot of notes. I agree the franchise went downhill after that, or I grew up, or I suddenly found the guitar more interesting. Whatever. But yeah, if you're not having a good time, I second Alessan- try something else!
Yup. Ultima III is literally the reason I play video games today, so the OP is clearly incorrect.

Actually, I'm kinda confused by the OP overall. It doesn't sound like they ever actually liked games. In fact, based on the complaining I've seen and their attitude, I think the problem is with them, rather than with the games.
  #64  
Old 01-06-2020, 02:58 PM
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Heh, even back then I tended to be a civic-minded gamer and would avoid killing the guards if I could. Now, Ultima II? I would kill the guards left and right in that one for some reason, but you had to be careful as there was always one immortal guard in every town that could box you into a corner if you got lazy.

I still remember my gold cheat for Ultima II- there was a planet you could visit where the land was in the shape of Pangaea (or did you go back in time? There was definitely a rocket ship and a big CCCP area). Anyway, because of the shape of the land mass one could circumnavigate the globe by heading due east or west, indefinitely. So I would rig my keyboard so that the 'go west' button was mashed down, then go make a sandwich or something. When I came back after 50 circumnavigations or so, the land would have spawned all kinds of monsters that I could demolish (ship cannon?) to mop up. Yeah, I was easily entertained back then.
Let's just say the moral choices are what made the Ultima (4?) with the moral choices unplayable for me. I just wanted to kick ass and chew bubblegum.
  #65  
Old 01-06-2020, 04:10 PM
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The worst thing about Rebel Galaxy was when I completed it and realized I was done.

That game was a beautiful experience, from the “broadsides in space” combat to the dirty biker music to the bright energy weapons against a dark nebula expanse behind it. Just gorgeous.
Another gorgeous space game worth playing is Everspace. It's a really stripped down experience but a lot of fun.
  #66  
Old 01-08-2020, 10:13 AM
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Let's just say the moral choices are what made the Ultima (4?) with the moral choices unplayable for me. I just wanted to kick ass and chew bubblegum.
Unless you mean "Murder people and laugh" that shouldn't have been a problem.

If you do mean "murder people and laugh" you'll forgive me if we don't have that much sympathy that you can't live out that particular power fantasy AGAIN.
  #67  
Old 01-08-2020, 10:19 AM
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Unless you mean "Murder people and laugh" that shouldn't have been a problem.

If you do mean "murder people and laugh" you'll forgive me if we don't have that much sympathy that you can't live out that particular power fantasy AGAIN.
My suspicion is that there was a desire to kill everything for loot and XP, which admittedly is how your normal CRPG works. But Ultima IV requires some restraint at times when you’re trying to advance in the virtue system. I can understand how that might not appeal to everyone but to me that was the appeal of the game, and the reason why it was my favorite Ultima game and one of my favorite NES RPGs..
  #68  
Old 01-08-2020, 10:30 AM
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Unless you mean "Murder people and laugh" that shouldn't have been a problem.

If you do mean "murder people and laugh" you'll forgive me if we don't have that much sympathy that you can't live out that particular power fantasy AGAIN.
Don't Joker-shame.
  #69  
Old 01-09-2020, 11:38 PM
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All right, apparently this is in the Game Room now, which had me really surprised for a while (I've had what I considered to be a much less nasty Cafe Society OP end up in the Pit), and then I saw how many responses there were, which had me totally surprised, and then I saw the responses...and...it's a mixed bag. And very civil all throughout.

This is a really nice website.

Anyway, I meant what I said, I'm not going to continue grumbling, it's not good for you or me. I do feel compelled to address this one point:

I'm not here to denigrate anyone's choices of electronic entertainment. If you find getting lost, losing ships, staving off mutiny by an eyelash, running out of food, getting stuck like a pincushion in sword fights, getting creamed in naval battles, getting creamed in land battles, getting rebuffed by snobbish governors' daughters, getting the door slammed in your face by crown-grovelling Spanish merchants, not being able to find the place on the map, having the wind change direction to directly in your face, and retiring as a lowly farm hand for the 500th time fun, more power to you. Your life, your pleasures. I gotta ask, though: If this game really is so wonderful, where are the videos? Any game that players love, that becomes iconic, that's captivating, visionary, groundbreaking, breathtaking, expansive, controversial, denounced, they will record it. Just think about all the Super Mario Bros. or Grand Theft Auto games you've seen in your lifetime, Tecmo Super Bowl, Baba Is You, Street Fighter 2, Dark Souls, Minecraft. The only things I could ever dig up from Pirates! (all NES version) were an incomplete career, a "quick game" challenge (farm hand, natch), and a bizarre TAS that was almost certainly made as a joke. Even The Oregon Trail has a few serious runs. In all, it really seems like that whatever challenge this game may provide, reaching a luxurious retirement...the ultimate goal...doesn't seem to be worth it for a lot of players.

Airk - Looking back on it, I honestly thing the biggest problem was that from 1987 or so, I was an arcade guy, and (for the most part) the business model for arcade games was "go as far as you want as long as you keep shovelling in tokens". There was simply no financial incentive to have huge stumbling blocks or painful requirements or near-impossible tasks. That worked for me, and even for the really expensive games (I'm looking at you, Crime Fighters), it didn't feel like a complete screwjob, so the frustration never really built. I don't remember a single time I've screamed at an arcade game (except for that one really bad night at the Beatmania IIDX machine, of which the less said the better), which was, regrettably, a fairly common occurrence for computer and NES games. Thankfully, it's the modern age, where finding something that works for oneself is not a hassle, so I've decided to just put the past behind.

Male, BTW.

hogarth - (I was going to PM you on this, but your account isn't allowing it.) I'm curious as to which two Assassin's Creed games you're talking about. There are a couple that I'd consider relatively easy, at least regarding the main game, but I'm drawing a blank on an "insanely hard" one, or at least one that I can positively say is insanely hard.
  #70  
Old 01-10-2020, 12:11 AM
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Unless you mean "Murder people and laugh" that shouldn't have been a problem.

If you do mean "murder people and laugh" you'll forgive me if we don't have that much sympathy that you can't live out that particular power fantasy AGAIN.
Yes, it was the same amount of guilt I felt playing Guantlet at the arcade, the utter shame of Galaxians, the bitter remorse of Dragon's Lair, etc. as I shattered pixelated soul after pixelated soul throughout the 1980s-onward.

(Unless I'm being wooshed here.)

Last edited by JohnT; 01-10-2020 at 12:14 AM.
  #71  
Old 01-10-2020, 12:15 AM
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If you find getting lost, losing ships, staving off mutiny by an eyelash, running out of food, getting stuck like a pincushion in sword fights, getting creamed in naval battles, getting creamed in land battles, getting rebuffed by snobbish governors' daughters, getting the door slammed in your face by crown-grovelling Spanish merchants, not being able to find the place on the map, having the wind change direction to directly in your face, and retiring as a lowly farm hand for the 500th time fun, more power to you.
I probably wouldn't. But I did enjoy retiring as a governor or duke or one of the other top possibilities. And the moments of stumbling into the Treasure Fleet and taking it out with a sloop, taking advantage of the light winds to out-maneuver the galleons or capturing a Ship of the Line with a pinnace by rushing it and winning the duel (usually with zero men left but you'd recruit enough crew from your victory to form a skeleton crew) or luring Havana's troops into a swamp ambush and decimating their cavalry in the jungles and getting some scrap of paper detailing where your lost sister is with one two square island in a sea of blue and knowing exactly where it was based on the one tree.

I haven't watched videos for any of the other games you listed either since watching other people play games sounds as horribly dull as you seem to find Sid Meier's Pirates! But I'll happily agree that few people probably want to watch my 30 hours of game play to retire in my mansion with one of the prettier governor daughters (I remember being partial to the one with the cat).
  #72  
Old 01-10-2020, 06:57 AM
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Unless you mean "Murder people and laugh" that shouldn't have been a problem.

If you do mean "murder people and laugh" you'll forgive me if we don't have that much sympathy that you can't live out that particular power fantasy AGAIN.
I remember playing an Ultima game where there was the same "loot everything" mechanic that most games had. You'd wander into folks' houses and rifle through any clickable item.

Except that near the very end of the game, my characters were evaluated for their virtue, and I was found lacking because of my thievery, and couldn't proceed in the game.

I wasn't crazy about that setup.
  #73  
Old 01-10-2020, 08:24 AM
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hogarth - (I was going to PM you on this, but your account isn't allowing it.) I'm curious as to which two Assassin's Creed games you're talking about. There are a couple that I'd consider relatively easy, at least regarding the main game, but I'm drawing a blank on an "insanely hard" one, or at least one that I can positively say is insanely hard.
My apologies for using hyperbole, but in the thread linked below you mentioned that in AC: Syndicate "combat is way harder than before and you have much less margin for error" which is not something I noticed at all.

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...d.php?t=830548

I think you revised some of your comments about Syndicate in a later thread (linked below), but you still said "there are many, many, MANY demands on your funds this time, so you're going to have to spend carefully for much of the game" which (again) is not something I noticed at all.

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...d.php?t=843552

EDIT: I might also have been confusing things with comments made in the Subnautica thread that Balance mentioned above.

Last edited by hogarth; 01-10-2020 at 08:26 AM.
  #74  
Old 01-10-2020, 09:45 AM
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I get confused when DKW takes two games that I consider extremely similar in terms of difficulty (e.g. two entries in the Assassin's Creed franchise) and then claims that one is very easy and the other is insanely, impossibly difficult.

But I agree that the unskippable flying missions in GTA Vice City were a big pain. And I never did complete that dumb RC plane mission in GTA San Andreas. Actually, I never finished GTA San Andreas at all; I failed a bunch of times in a row on the final mission (crashing my car while chasing the fire truck), so I gave up.
Yeah, that's what I mean. He has some legitimate criticism mixed in with stuff that's more just taste. I just wish he'd separate the two. Or at the very least stop acting like his taste or personal difficulty means that the games are actually bad.

If the title was just "games I have trouble with" or "games I don't like," it wouldn't feel so confrontational. And maybe that would help with not being so ranty.

I do sympathize with the idea of needing to not rant so much for your health. I've also been trying to cut down for similar reasons.
  #75  
Old 01-10-2020, 11:14 AM
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I remember playing an Ultima game where there was the same "loot everything" mechanic that most games had. You'd wander into folks' houses and rifle through any clickable item.

Except that near the very end of the game, my characters were evaluated for their virtue, and I was found lacking because of my thievery, and couldn't proceed in the game.

I wasn't crazy about that setup.
Huh, that's weird. The only games I remember that actually like, evaluated you on your Virtue were Ultima IV and V, and both of them pretty much kept a real-time-visible-tally and wouldn't let you proceed past certain points without it. Though if we're talking about "clicking on" things, it must be Ultima 6 or newer, since we didn't even have mice before then.

I dunno, does anyone remember any penalties for low virtues in Ultima 7?

Oh wait. Please tell me you're not talking about Ultima 9? Was it 3d?

Also, DKW, I find it fascinating that you say there was no financial incentive to have "huge stumbling blocks or painful requirements or near-impossible tasks"; This seems the opposite of things to me. In arcades, the financial incentive was to have a game be as HARD AS POSSIBLE without making the player quit, because that would mean the largest number of quarters sunk in. This is, for example, why Gauntlet literally has your health tick down every second. On the other hand, with anything post arcade, there was no real incentive to difficulty, since you're more likely to get repeat players (as in "people to buy the sequel") if the game gives them a nice sense of accomplishment.

But what really bugs me about your rants is how you assert that if we like a game, it means we like "getting lost, losing ships, staving off mutiny by an eyelash, running out of food, getting stuck like a pincushion in sword fights, getting creamed in naval battles, getting creamed in land battles, getting rebuffed by snobbish governors' daughters, getting the door slammed in your face by crown-grovelling Spanish merchants, not being able to find the place on the map, having the wind change direction to directly in your face, and retiring as a lowly farm hand for the 500th time fun" whereas I regard Pirates! as being, frankly, pretty damn easy unless you start going up into the upper tiers of difficulty (I think there were 5 levels, and anything below 4 felt like a cakewalk to me). And.... so many of those issues that you complain about could have been resolved just by lowering the difficulty. I just don't get it. There's something wrong with your relationship with games.

Last edited by Airk; 01-10-2020 at 11:18 AM.
  #76  
Old 01-10-2020, 11:22 AM
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Huh, that's weird. The only games I remember that actually like, evaluated you on your Virtue were Ultima IV and V, and both of them pretty much kept a real-time-visible-tally and wouldn't let you proceed past certain points without it. Though if we're talking about "clicking on" things, it must be Ultima 6 or newer, since we didn't even have mice before then.

I dunno, does anyone remember any penalties for low virtues in Ultima 7?

Oh wait. Please tell me you're not talking about Ultima 9? Was it 3d?
Granted, this was in the early nineties or maybe even late eighties, so my memory is really sketchy. I think there was some set of standing stones I came to where i had to be evaluated, and it said something about having stolen too much stuff; up to that point, I had no idea that the game kept any track of theft. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention? (And the "clickable" thing may also be a misremembrance. Again, a really long time ago).

Edit: I think it was Quest of the Avatar, IV. I just read the Wiki article, and it looks like Honesty was the virtue I failed in, and you had to talk to some seer in Lord British's castle to get the updates on how you were doing with your virtues. Maybe I skipped those conversations.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 01-10-2020 at 11:26 AM.
  #77  
Old 01-10-2020, 11:40 AM
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Progress through the virtues was pretty much the entire point of Ultima IV. And even there, you couldn't get stuck by it: You could always go back and atone for previous bad decisions. Well, strictly speaking, using the Skull of Mondain could kill off critical NPCs and make the game unplayable from that point forward, but the only way to even find the Skull was to go actively looking for it, and every clue you had to its location was accompanied by a warning that you didn't want it, and you never needed to find it at all, and killing off all of the NPCs in a town (and then not having them respawn when you re-entered the town) should have been an obvious tell that something was broken.
  #78  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:00 PM
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Yeah; Aside from the Skull, all virtue "issues" in Ultima 4 were fixable. It might have been tiresome, but they were fixable. This was also the game that literally gave you a visual indicator for how you were doing, virtue-wise, because if you did well enough in any given virtue, the game would say "Thou has gained an eighth!" and you'd get a couple of pixels (Hey, the game was low res) in an obvious spot on your UI, and as you gained more of them, it would turn into an ankh. I don't really see how "Yeah, thievery might be a bad idea" wouldn't be pretty obvious. I mean, this is also the game where literally the PLOT is "You're gonna need to become an avatar of virtue". There's tons of dialogue and even stuff in the manual about the virtues and how to uphold them. Not even by "skipping conversations" -- I mean, you could "skip" (Not read) the conversations about virtues, but if you do, you will literally make zero progress in the game.

I can understand not LIKING Ultima IV if you're just looking for a game where you're a badass and kill things, but it's really not a game that plays "gotcha" with you. If you're going to make any progress at all, you're going to do it by doing Virtue Stuff.

Maybe you just spent a bunch of time wandering around and killing stuff and finally bumped into the "actual plot" and the game basically told you "Knock it off with all the thieving" and you got annoyed and quit, but hadn't actually made any real progress yet?

Last edited by Airk; 01-10-2020 at 04:03 PM.
  #79  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:27 PM
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Come to think of it, the business about the virtues is literally unavoidable. Even if you never talk to any NPC ever, at all, the way you create your character in the first place is through a set of hypothetical questions to pit the virtues against each other, to see which virtue (and corresponding class) corresponded most closely to you.

"You have been tasked with delivering a sack of coins to a distant lord. Along the way, a beggar stops you and asks for money. Do you Honorably deliver all of the coins, or show Compassion and give he beggar a few coins, knowing that they won't be missed?"
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Old 01-10-2020, 04:44 PM
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or capturing a Ship of the Line with a pinnace by rushing it and winning the duel (usually with zero men left but you'd recruit enough crew from your victory to form a skeleton crew)
The biggest challenge was to take on a Count level Pirate hunter in a ship o' the line with a heavy galleon(crewed by 8) because you had to plan everything precisely to get that whale to avoid taking damage and being screwed before you can board, while you can't fire back.
  #81  
Old 01-11-2020, 11:18 AM
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Maybe you just spent a bunch of time wandering around and killing stuff and finally bumped into the "actual plot" and the game basically told you "Knock it off with all the thieving" and you got annoyed and quit, but hadn't actually made any real progress yet?
Maybe. It's been thirty years.
  #82  
Old 01-13-2020, 10:02 AM
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Maybe. It's been thirty years.
Yep; And it seems like the most likely explanation since the game more or less had two orthogonal axes of "progress" -- you could kill lots of stuff and level up and get better gear and things, which is normally how you "advance" in a video game, but all that was really just an enabler at best or negative at worst, depending on how you achieved it, in terms of actually making progress towards completing the game.

Yeah, you needed some levels and some gear to go into the dungeons for some of the most questy bits of the game, but thievery and other negative actions would actually move you backwards in terms of being able to complete those quests.

It's...not really the game's fault if you decide you don't want to engage with its premise though.
  #83  
Old 01-14-2020, 03:08 PM
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Just chime in, I created a thread some time ago to complain about "wolfenstein, the new colossus". I started it, dropped it for quite some time and came back to it recently.

My thoughts didn't really change, the story was mawkish dogshit with embarrasing levels of "acting" and accents. I skipped pretty much everything I could and concentrated on the actual shooting. The gameplay design was pretty good and they have spent far more time on creating more of that and less of the story. The ending was a huge anti-climax as well. Still, it is complete and as I have no compulsion to replay I've sold it, (Physical copies of switch games do keep their value so there is little risk in giving them a go). I have now downloaded Doom 3 for £7.99 and I'm having a whale of a time. The barest whiff of a plot is all that is needed.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:19 PM
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Just chime in, I created a thread some time ago to complain about "wolfenstein, the new colossus". I started it, dropped it for quite some time and came back to it recently.

My thoughts didn't really change, the story was mawkish dogshit with embarrasing levels of "acting" and accents. I skipped pretty much everything I could and concentrated on the actual shooting. The gameplay design was pretty good and they have spent far more time on creating more of that and less of the story. The ending was a huge anti-climax as well. Still, it is complete and as I have no compulsion to replay I've sold it, (Physical copies of switch games do keep their value so there is little risk in giving them a go). I have now downloaded Doom 3 for £7.99 and I'm having a whale of a time. The barest whiff of a plot is all that is needed.
Apparently the very first of the "new" Wolfenstein games (I think it was "New Order" but I can't keep up with their names) was pretty good, with just enough plot and absurdity to keep things moving, but the subsequent ones have become more and more stupid and awkward.

Rumor has it that the new Doom (the 2016 one, with no number) was a real winner though.
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:10 PM
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Rumor has it that the new Doom (the 2016 one, with no number) was a real winner though.
yes, I certainly enjoyed that one more than the Wolfenstein ones and for a recent game it ran well and look pretty darn good on the Switch.
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  #86  
Old 01-18-2020, 09:31 PM
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Jophiel - Those who can do; those who can't watch a video and at least get to see what should have happened. Video games has its own category on YouTube, so obviously someone's enjoying those videos. And it doesn't matter if the game is very long or old. Baba Is You is the probably the longest and most intricate puzzle game ever, and you can watch hours and hours of gameplay on Youtube from players of varying abilities (I'd avoid Northernlion unless you want to get nearly as frustrated as him), and you can easily find stuff from as far back as the Apple II. Heck, the speedrunner sites (both official and tool-assited) produce new content weekly.

I'm not doubting that a successful career is possible, or at least triumphant moments like nailing the Treasure Fleet or finding your sister (I've done both a few times), but it's always seemed like more a matter of luck than skill and a massive struggle in any case. This looks like just the thing for TASVideos, especially since they'd most likely go with the NES version (which has a maximum possible score of 100), but thus far no one's cared enough to try it. Too bad.

hogarth - Once I figured it out the combat in Syndicate, it was no sweat. The important thing is, as they say in boxing, protect yourself at all times. If you properly defend against every punch, grab, and bullet, you're flat-out invincible. I think I struggled early on because I was used to taking out one enemy before moving on to the next, which in Syndicate simply takes too long and inevitably resulted in me getting clocked from behind. Just keep your guard up, get your licks in on whoever you can when you can, and they'll all go down; even better, you can pull of a spectacular multi-counter kill. As for money, I found that the smart path was to just stay on the train, let the cash roll in, grab the income enhancements, let some more cash roll in, and get back to work once I had all the upgrades I wanted. Looking back on it, I can't point to anything in Syndicate that I found outrageously difficult (like Rogue's Storm Fortress), completely unreasonable (Brotherhood's time requirements), or badly broken (like Unity's...pretty much everything). It really is a great game!

Subnautica...ya got it or ya don't. I don't. It was painful, but I'm not going to cry about it anymore. Thirty bucks down the toilet, whatever. I've taken worse hits.

BigT - Again, it's not my intention to call anyone a fool or a liar. I've simply come to realize that, whatever enjoyment I might have gotten from this hobby, I've been extremely unhappy about a huge part of it for a long time now, and if I don't come to terms with it there will be serious consequences.

That said, I like to consider myself open-minded, so if you have a video of any of the games I mentioned, I'm willing to consider modifying my stance. (Except Wishbringer. Screw that "Introductory Level" pile of crap forever. )

Airk - But that's the thing; sure, Gauntlet made you shovel in tokens, but as long as you kept doing that, you could keep on trucking no matter how abysmal a player you were. Same with many other Atari and Midway games of the era: APB, Super/Championship Sprint, Space Lords, Blasteroids, Roadrunner, Rampage, Power Drive, Blasted. Same with nearly all the sidescrolling beat-'em-ups and plane shooters. I mean, burning through six credits to finish off Garibaldi wasn't fun, but it was doable. Compare that to, say, NES' Double Dragon, which gave you three lives for the entire game, or a typical Sekiro boss. When I think unforgivable, make-or-break difficulty, I always think of consoles first and computer second, and the occasional Speed Rumbler, Rolling Thunder, or Mortal Kombat barely even registers.

I do accept that it's been a bad relationship for a long time, which is why I'm trying to change it now.
  #87  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:19 AM
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Jophiel - Those who can do; those who can't watch a video and at least get to see what should have happened.
I typed "Youtube Sid Meiers pirates" into Google and got a page of results. Dunno what to tell you.
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:46 PM
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Okay, did another search, got a few gameplay videos (again, I'm specifically talking about the original 1987 version). As a reminder, as long as you don't lose a battle, you are guaranteed to finish no worse than farm hand. A couple by someone named Captain Thriftwood, who got absolutely clobbered at some point both times and ended up as a beggar (-30) the first time and a rogue (-2) the second, and one more career he more or less just gave up on after repeated catastrophes. Someone else gave it a good fight, didn't achieve much, and ended up a farm hand (1). Then another rogue. Two or three incomplete careers. And finally, one player managed to actually win a few battles, decided to quit while he was ahead, and ended up a sailor (9). Again, this is the best result I could find that was arrived at honestly (I understand the NES version has some exploitable glitches). Compare this to what you'll find for, Tecmo Bowl, or Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, or any Touhou game. And yes, you'll find plenty of comments about how much they loved the game back in the day, how addicting it was. I'm not doubting that for a second. But it's a lot of work and a lot of luck actually achieving anything meaningful.

And now I've forgotten what point I was trying to make with all this. Doncha hate when that happens?
  #89  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:03 PM
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So what you're really saying is that you'd like more "pay-to-win" DLC? The funny thing about most of those games that you mention is that you couldn't actually win them. They'd just keep going until you gave up on giving them more quarters. (You could actually win the NES version of Rampage, though it was the runner up for biggest letdown ending right behind the NES version of 1942.)

There actually are a pretty fair number of games that will let you continue forever though, so I still don't really understand what your problem is. It's very weird.

Last edited by Airk; 01-21-2020 at 02:05 PM.
  #90  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:25 PM
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(You could actually win the NES version of Rampage, though it was the runner up for biggest letdown ending right behind the NES version of 1942.)
I see you never managed to beat Ghosts and Goblins, going through the stupidly hard game twice without being able to turn your NES off (which meant leaving it plugged in overnight and hidden from your sister so she didn't switch games before you got home from school the next day,) only to get a smooch on the cheek from the princess and a single line of Engrish "congraturations!"
  #91  
Old 01-21-2020, 03:29 PM
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Airk - Oh sweet Hecatia, anything but pay-to-win DLC. The day I become a damn whale, harpoon me. (While that's not my biggest issue with the PS4, it certainly not making it any easier to find something good.) In my day, you only needed one device for the entire system. Occasionally it'd turn out to be no good and you'd have to get something better, but we're talking three or four purchases, tops, not a new cash outlay for every game.

And I didn't mind that Gauntlet, Peter Pack-Rat, APB, Super Sprint, Roadrunner etc. were endless. (Atari seemed to be caught between the "have a definite ending but make it insanely hard to achieve" camp and the "grab as many tokens as those suckers are willing to shell out" camp, and I'm not sure that either ever won out.) I've happily walked away from endless games more times than I can count. The level with 80 generators and 30 teleporters? Bah, someone with a lot more fortitude than me can tackle it. When, just to give one example, I returned Gradius 2 after barely making it to the fourth level after repeated attempts, it hurt. (Bonus points for 1. an incredibly awkward explanation to the shop owner what the "Konami Code" was and 2. an even more awkward explanation of why it didn't help.) I'm not certain that NES' Rampage is a good counterexample, either, as it was super easy (as I already explained in this thread), something you would not use very often to describe a Nintendo game.

Bottom line, at this point all I want is peace. Right now I'm getting it from Project Diva Future Tone right now (same Project Diva gameplay but with zero baggage and a sensible scoring system). I recommend it.
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Old 01-21-2020, 05:40 PM
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I can’t argue with the criticism of Wishbringer but I used to know and sort-of be friends with the guy who wrote it (Moriarty) so I’m always tempted to defend it just on his behalf. But I won’t. It just makes me feel bad, I know he worked hard on it.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:57 PM
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I see you never managed to beat Ghosts and Goblins, going through the stupidly hard game twice without being able to turn your NES off (which meant leaving it plugged in overnight and hidden from your sister so she didn't switch games before you got home from school the next day,) only to get a smooch on the cheek from the princess and a single line of Engrish "congraturations!"
At least you got a kiss. 1942 just gave you a black screen with the word "Congratulations" and took you back to the title screen. And man, that game was long, punishing, and, par for the course in the day, had no ability to save your progress.
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:02 PM
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Airk - Oh sweet Hecatia, anything but pay-to-win DLC. The day I become a damn whale, harpoon me. (While that's not my biggest issue with the PS4, it certainly not making it any easier to find something good.) In my day, you only needed one device for the entire system. Occasionally it'd turn out to be no good and you'd have to get something better, but we're talking three or four purchases, tops, not a new cash outlay for every game.
Except that this is exactly what the arcade games you were praising a minute ago were doing. You get exactly as far in Gauntlet as you are willing to pay for. That's infinitely more Pay-to-win than 99% of what's on modern game systems. (Excluding phone/tablet games, anyway).

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I'm not certain that NES' Rampage is a good counterexample, either, as it was super easy (as I already explained in this thread), something you would not use very often to describe a Nintendo game.
Nonsense. For all the talk about "Nintendo hard" a lot of games from that era were absurdly easy. If anything, the difficult thing to find on that system was games that offered a middle-of-the-road challenge.

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Bottom line, at this point all I want is peace.
I confess, I'm not entirely sure why you needed to tell us this. This whole thread kinda seems like an exercise in "So long, suckers, enjoy your crappy games, but don't worry, I'm not going to remind you of that anymore."

You never did take me up on the 100% free recommendation of a game I was willing stand behind, so I'm forced to conclude that you're not only incredibly picky, but that you like complaining.
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Old 01-31-2020, 12:30 AM
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Airk - Dude...please...enough. After giving it plenty of thought, I decided that JRPGs aren't for me. That's the long and short of it. I'm sorry if you were really hyped up over winning a convert, but it just wasn't meant to be in this case. I made absolutely no bones about being incredibly picky, so you should've been prepared to be disappointed.

As for that other stuff you're trying to debate, no. I'm tired of gamer debates. If you want to make a thread about really easy NES games, I'd be glad to give it a look. Otherwise, believe what you will about me.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:21 AM
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Airk - Dude...please...enough. After giving it plenty of thought, I decided that JRPGs aren't for me. That's the long and short of it. I'm sorry if you were really hyped up over winning a convert, but it just wasn't meant to be in this case. I made absolutely no bones about being incredibly picky, so you should've been prepared to be disappointed.
You spent your own money on a bunch of games that other people recommended in that thread, only to then rant and complain, but then wouldn't literally take my money to try something different. I'm really not sure what else to conclude.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:37 PM
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So, I found my old Ultima Collection game disk. The installer won't work on Windows 10, but it doesn't look like it's strictly needed, and I was able to get Ultima 1 working with DosBox, at least. I'm going to try and make my way through the Ultimas.
  #98  
Old 02-06-2020, 05:44 PM
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...Pro Wrestling - Proof that a game will be revered as one of the console’s best so long as it only has a few titanic, monstrous game-breaking flaws. To wit: 1. No health meters (and it say something that nobody’s even trying to make the usual half-assed mealy-mouthed excuses for this). 2. The grappling system is completely random (ditto). 3. You have to win 10 title defenses in a row to reach Great Puma. 4. The opponents take more and more and more (and more...and more...and more...) damage the further you go, which means that if you lose before winning the title you’re pretty much fucked, and if you lose after you win the title you’re absolutely fucked. Goofydlyan8 and Bryan Evans are pretty much the only two people who’ve gotten anywhere with this trainwreck of a game...
If you aren't using Star Man you're doing it wrong. Completely OP, the difficulty was just about right when you used him.

Last edited by Dark Sponge; 02-06-2020 at 05:45 PM.
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