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Old 01-02-2020, 05:31 PM
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Thylacine,makes a good point. I have a sister who started smoking at a young age. I think it was two parts youthful rebellion and one part self-medication for undiagnosed ADHD and bipolar mania. Could be if she had been properly diagnosed and treated, the youthful rebellion wouldn't have happened (as much) in the first place.

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  #152  
Old 01-02-2020, 05:42 PM
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Yeah exactly. Younger one was doing it on his own. Said he was curious but Iím not sure - Hence the counseling for him.
If anyone needs counseling it's you.

My mother tried to force me into counseling, and it didn't work. I refused to open up to my counselor. The counselor finally got fed up with me and told my mom there was nothing he could do for me.

Looking back, that counseling would have been more fruitful if we went together, as opposed to placing all the blame on our troubled relationship squarely on me.

For god's sake. Don't be that woman. I spent my entire 20's not talking to my mother because of that nonsense.
  #153  
Old 01-02-2020, 06:11 PM
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We’re going to counseling together
  #154  
Old 01-02-2020, 07:34 PM
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OP here and I respectfully disagree, Dinsdale.
Not sheltered or naive. I knew I would have to deal with these issues at some point but thought I would have until college years. 14 was a little bit of a shock to me. And the scale thing you reference 0-100 - uh, I think this is the high 90s. This can hurt my kids...lead to death.
Pot is extremely unlikely to lead to death. Alcohol can kill you. Alcohol enormously increases the risk you will kill yourself driving, or trying to explode a turkey or something, too. Pot? Pot is likely to make you giggle. Doctors have mentioned to me that they've never seen an ER case from a pot overdose. And while pot increases the risk of getting into an auto accident, the effect is not nearly as much as the effect of drinking -- friends who use pot tell me this is because when you are high it's obvious that you are high, whereas drunks often don't realize how impaired they are.

I would have put occasional pot use closer to a 50.
I'd put getting pregnant in the 70s or 80s, and using opioids in the 90s.
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I had a pretty strong reaction, as we can all agree.
Itís kinda hard to walk that back. As per my husbandís recommendation, they are meeting with a MD next week to go over the harmful effects of vaping (which I think again we can all agree is not good for a 15 year olds lungs). From there, possibly counseling. For both of us.
The vaping crisis you read about in the news is likely over.

https://www.leafly.com/news/health/t...-oil-honey-cut
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1916433

Most of the deaths have been linked to producers cutting THC with vitamin E acetate, which looks like THC oil and has a similar consistency. But now that that's known, there's a lot less of it on the market.

Not that vaping is a good idea, and I certainly would discourage my kids from doing it, ESPECIALLY from vaping nicotine, and also any illegal products. But the risk today from vaping cannabis isn't as high as you might fear.

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Yeah exactly. Younger one was doing it on his own. Said he was curious but Iím not sure - Hence the counseling for him.
Counseling for being curious?

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Weíre going to counseling together
Okay, that's good. I hope you both find it helpful in re-establishing your relationship.
  #155  
Old 01-02-2020, 07:45 PM
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Weíre going to counseling together
Good luck, this should all work out as long as you talk to each other.
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Old 01-02-2020, 08:04 PM
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Weíre going to counseling together
Are you prepared for your kids to complain about how you treat them?
  #157  
Old 01-02-2020, 08:11 PM
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Yup. Whatever works.
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Old 01-02-2020, 09:24 PM
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No offense, but your husband's approach is probably more productive because it keeps lines of communication (which is what you need) open.
I agree, and I am "the husband" in my family's version of this scenario. This was one of the biggest contributing factors to the breakdown of my marriage. When there were difficult times, I behaved like this guy. My wife overreacted and catastrophized everything, eventually resenting me and blaming me for being the "liked" parent and so much more while she "was the one (echoing beginning of OP) doing this and that and the other" and trying to be the "good mom and little wife" when none of that was what any of us asked for or needed.
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Old 01-02-2020, 09:28 PM
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Are you prepared for your kids to complain about how you treat them?
they're teenage guys. they probably think this is all funny as hell. this is high up on the list of reasons I don't have kids.

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  #160  
Old 01-02-2020, 09:35 PM
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I really donít understand why you think your kids are the ones who need counseling.

If they donít clean their rooms when you tell them to, are you going to take them for counseling for that? What if they fail a test in school? More counseling?
Really? You're going to skip all the data we have on cannabis and teenagers and compare it to not cleaning their rooms??? I think weed is fine for adults. A number of studies have shown today's THC-rich cannabis is not so fine for teens. (And neither are alcohol and a number of other drugs.)

And counseling is not punishment. Whether the OP was overreacting or not, there's been a huge rift in the family. Counseling could be beneficial to her and to the family as a whole. It's certainly not going to hurt.
  #161  
Old 01-03-2020, 08:13 PM
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OP here and I respectfully disagree, Dinsdale.
Not sheltered or naive. I knew I would have to deal with these issues at some point but thought I would have until college years.
I think you're contradicting yourself here.
  #162  
Old 01-03-2020, 08:35 PM
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But in my limited understanding of parenting, the problem in the OP's reactions/actions is not being overly concerned with drug usage, but rather that the very strong reaction is far more likely to lead to kids deciding that it's best to just make sure to keep things secret from their parents rather than leading to better decision making. Seems like the best likelihood for improved outcome would be calmness, love, and understanding, without publicizing feelings of betrayal and attempts to instill guilt, IMO.
Someone else quoted this but I wanted to as well. Well put.
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Yeah exactly. Younger one was doing it on his own. Said he was curious but Iím not sure - Hence the counseling for him.
Of course he is going to say whatever he figures will freak you out the least. You do realize that honest communitation is pretty much shot by now?
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I agree. Some people try it, use it for a bit, drop it and never use it again. Others try it, and become habitual users, and it may or may not affect their potential over time. It may not be popular opinion but I hope my kids are the former.
The vast majority of people who either drink or smoke week never run into problems. However, freaking out about it is one way to drive them into worse choices.
  #163  
Old 01-03-2020, 08:41 PM
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Well, then, I must have exceptional kids because ever since this has happened, they have both expressed a desire to get back to our relationship we had before all this. And they don’t care if it requires random tests, counseling or whatever. They are eager to rebuild the trust.
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Old 01-03-2020, 09:07 PM
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... And they donít care if it requires random tests, counseling or whatever. They are eager to rebuild the trust.
They would indeed be exceptional in my experience, if they buy that "random tests" will "rebuild trust".

I know I've over-reacted to things involving my kids. My opinion - which you are free to disagree with - is that you are over-reacting here. But keep doing what you think best. It is about all any parent can do.
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  #165  
Old 01-03-2020, 09:44 PM
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Really? You're going to skip all the data we have on cannabis and teenagers and compare it to not cleaning their rooms??? I think weed is fine for adults. A number of studies have shown today's THC-rich cannabis is not so fine for teens. (And neither are alcohol and a number of other drugs.)

And counseling is not punishment. Whether the OP was overreacting or not, there's been a huge rift in the family. Counseling could be beneficial to her and to the family as a whole. It's certainly not going to hurt.
Theyíre teens and they smoked some weed. Something most teens do. I donít see how that warrants counseling.
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Old 01-03-2020, 09:56 PM
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Theyíre teens and they smoked some weed. Something most teens do. I donít see how that warrants counseling.
1) I think most families with teenagers would benefit from counselling. It's not a punishment.

2) Everyone, including the OP, acknowledges that Declanium overreacted in a way that really upset the family dynamics. Think of it as family counselling focused on her with her family present if it helps you. It seems to me that a parent modelling "this is more than I can handle on my own. Let me call in a health professional" is a really good step.

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  #167  
Old 01-04-2020, 07:43 AM
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Theyíre teens and they smoked some weed. Something most teens do. I donít see how that warrants counseling.
She's going with them. Given her reaction, I think some family counseling will be good for everyone. I think it's great that she's getting counseling.
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Old 01-04-2020, 08:32 AM
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Family counseling is a good idea because it could get her side and her kids’ sides a fair hearing, so to speak. If she has a history of controlling and emotional blackmail, then a safe space for her sons to talk about the impact on them can only be a good thing.

Last edited by you with the face; 01-04-2020 at 08:32 AM.
  #169  
Old 01-04-2020, 04:55 PM
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I'm sorry this has kicked you in the gut but personally I'm not seeing the big deal. Yeah, smoking weed is not the best activity for teenagers but drinking would be a lot worse and if this is the worst rebellion they have you're dodging a whole hail of bullets. It's not a moral failing, they just like getting high, just like millions of other people. They're going to have to figure out their relationship with various substances and deal with that all their lives and they're working that out. They're still your little babies, they just have a bit more THC on board than previously thought. I mean, they've been managing to keep it from you for almost a year, that means they're managing pretty well. Maybe you might benefit from seeing a therapist to go into why this essentially harmless essay into grownup stuff is affecting your feelings towards your kids. It doesn't seem proportional to fell like they've turned into werewolves because they blew some weed, y'know?
What a wonderful post! I wish I was smart enough and eloquent enough to have written this.

I will just add one comment. I had a very long and painful relationship with my mother. Eventually, it completely broke down and I hated the woman. She didn't much care for me either.

When I read the OP, my thinking is this is such a tiny problem and can be easily overcome. The really important aspect is whether you will listen to all the negative thoughts and your relationship with your sons will crash and die or whether you will have the patience to talk with them (both individually and together) and repair your relationship so that you can get back on track and have a rewarding life with them. Please take it from one who has suffered. It is a tragic waste of life to trash a family relationship between a mother and sons.

I wish you the very best of luck to repair your bond with your sons.
  #170  
Old 01-04-2020, 06:15 PM
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Well, then, I must have exceptional kids because ever since this has happened, they have both expressed a desire to get back to our relationship we had before all this. And they donít care if it requires random tests, counseling or whatever. They are eager to rebuild the trust.
THAT'S the important part. You know your kids, and we don't. You know your family relationships, and we don't. I'm really glad to hear that you, your husband, and your kids all take the family relationships seriously and are taking steps to get on surer, more stable footing. I think you'll probably learn a lot through counseling. I'm still sorry some of the responses were so judgmental, but I hope you got some benefit out of starting this thread.
  #171  
Old 01-05-2020, 12:34 AM
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Yes, you have exceptional kids. My mother reacted very badly when my older sister got caught with weed, and my sister didn't respond well in turn. It ended up hurting their relationship pretty badly. I don't know if it contributed to my sister's later problems, but it ended up removing honest communication with her mom, which removed one person that she could talk honestly with about her problems, and my sister became much better at manipulation.

I learned one thing from the experience: Don't get caught with weed. If you do, don't call mom and dad. They're reasonable about most things, but not that. So, not being stupid, I instead called my sister when I eventually got caught. She bailed me out with no hassle, and my parents didn't know until she told them about it decades later in an attempt to manipulate them. Fortunately for me, the joke was on her, and they saw it for the manipulative attempt it was. We talked about it and laughed a bit when my mom brought it up to me.

By by then, my parents had some perspective on the situation. They didn't know 1/10th of the actual stuff that I did that honestly scored well into the 90's of likely to kill my loony self anywhere near the time I did it. They knew that I had rolled a pickup the night I did it (kinda hard to hide that when you do it on a main thoroughfare and it's their truck). They understandably saw that as more dangerous than my sister's getting caught with weed. They didn't know about my career street racing for cash (lots of criminals there, first place I had a gun drawn on me - they had lost to a friend of mine and would rather not pay), my drinking and smoking weed, me and my friends shooting verboten BB guns and bows and arrows at each other, tons of verboten go-kart racing and dirt bikes, learning how to drive a manual a year before I could legally get a learner's permit - and lots of other things I can't remember right now that would probably have turned their hair white if they had learned them as current events instead of ancient history. I still remember the look on my dad's face when I told him that 20 years ago I had slid his daily driver sideways on two wheels (I drove like a complete maniac then, I honestly am much more sane now), and recovered without leaving a scratch on it or loosing a hubcap. I'm pretty sure he would have (rightly!) destroyed my license and locked me in the attic if he'd known at the time. He ended up laughing about it, but admitting he would have reacted differently if he had known about it when I was 16. We had put 100K on the car after that and it was long gone.

Even though I rolled the truck, I was in some ways seen as the "good" kid of the two older, loud kids. Mostly because I was smart/lucky enough (yeah, probably the latter) to not get caught for most of it. Most of the people who knew my parents would probably get the stellar report about me you got from the folks you asked. I got pretty good grades, and generally stayed out of trouble in their eyes. I was a complete loon who was lucky to have retained all of my limbs after getting a bicycle, almost all of my truly dangerous adventures came under the influence of nothing stronger than hormones and Dr. Pepper, and my parents had no idea until years later. Remember, most people (and families) are like ducks: nice and smooth above water, working their ass off like nobody's business below water.

So, obviously, I'm in the camp that thinks that their smoking weed probably doesn't rate 50 on the scale of things likely to kill your kids. When they've rolled a truck, they're much closer to 100 than weed ever would seem.

I do think it's good you're going to counseling with your kids, but you've got to understand that the people participating in counseling need to think they need it for it to do any good. I've never been to counseling, but that's the one thing I've taken from other's stories with it. That goes for you and your son. If you're going to counseling, it's because you both have a problem you can't talk about yet, and need to figure it out. I would agree that you need to come to terms with the idea that this being a slap in your face is not a productive way of looking at their mistakes. They will be making their own choices completely independent of you in a very short time, and already are doing some of that. This will undoubtedly continue, because otherwise you wouldn't have done your job well. Even the choices you disagree with won't necessarily be mistakes. As a marijuana smoker who got started before I learned to drive a manual: I'd say that my advice would be that they wait until later than their teens to further experiment with that business. At their age, there's enough lunacy going through their veins in the way of hormones, why throw weed into the mix? I also heartily advise against street racing, if they're wondering about that. When I actually got to running on a drag strip, even with all the high HP hardware hanging around, the sexiest thing was and still is the ambulance sitting at the end of the timing lights on the return road. I've seen too many weird things in racing to think anything else.

If it's not too personal, how did you find out they'd been smoking weed/vaping? I'm sorry if I missed it if you've explained it already, but it seems like the only likely way that you would find out a month or so after they last tried it would be if that they still had some on hand that was discovered or you were told about it, and they honestly admitted to you that they had been using it or it was theirs without any deflection or misdirection when confronted. If that's the case, throw it in the trash, apologize for making it about you, and firmly request they at least keep this kind of experimentation for after they are dependent on yourself. I don't have any kids, and smoke weed often. If I had a kid who honestly admitted to doing something I disapproved of when confronted with it. I'd probably take them out to dinner if they seemed to honesty agree to change their behavior while in my household. I know that I wasn't anywhere near that responsible when I was their age.

Oh, and piss testing your kids is only going to lead to various potential emotional and logistical problems. I've got to firmly vote not to do it.
  #172  
Old 01-05-2020, 12:57 AM
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Scabpicker, one of my sons had left his phone downstairs on the table while my husband and I were watching tv. He received a text from my other son (who obviously did not know it was on the table in clear view of us.) The text read something about wanting to share a cyph and scoring more weed.
So yeah, then we went upstairs and asked what that was about. First, all denials and then my husband opened my son’s backpack. Found all the paraphernalia in there. It was a helluva way to end Christmas.

Last edited by Declanium; 01-05-2020 at 12:58 AM.
  #173  
Old 01-05-2020, 01:07 AM
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... but you've got to understand that the people participating in counseling need to think they need it for it to do any good. I've never been to counseling, but that's the one thing I've taken from other's stories with it.
I don't think I agree with this. I've been told different by experienced counselors.

For example, when my father was first in an alcohol/drug treatment program, the head counselor told us"we don't get anybody here voluntarily". Some are forced to be here by court order, the others are forced by pressure from family or friends. In our case, Mom had a lawyer fill out divorce papers and show them to dad (they were never actually filed). The counselor said that was a fairly common move to 'force' someone into counseling.

I understand that often one of the first tasks in counseling is to get people to understand that 'they can get something useful from this counseling' (that they 'need' it often more of an admission than they will make). Sometimes it's only 'completing this program will get my family off my back'. But that's enough to get the counseling to start to work.

So go for counseling, even if you don't think you need it. If your sons need it, maybe you going too is the only way to get them to go. So do it.
  #174  
Old 01-05-2020, 01:39 AM
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Scabpicker, one of my sons had left his phone downstairs on the table while my husband and I were watching tv. He received a text from my other son (who obviously did not know it was on the table in clear view of us.) The text read something about wanting to share a cyph and scoring more weed.
So yeah, then we went upstairs and asked what that was about. First, all denials and then my husband opened my sonís backpack. Found all the paraphernalia in there. It was a helluva way to end Christmas.
Ok, so just as complex as real life usually is. I'd say that their subsequent apparent acknowledgement of the gravity of the situation would still merit mercy and understanding, even if they had the normal human reaction of "how do I get out of this?" initially. Be as nice as you can and understand that their behavior is not a personal affront. Seriously, almost no one thinks about what mom and dad would think in the heat of the moment, the ones who do are better than most of us. If you feel their contrition was genuine, I would say that since no actual harm was done (nobody got hurt in a material way), I'd say to talk about it as much as seems necessary or useful, forgive and forget as much as you can. Even if your lives are normal lives, bigger decisions and/or problems continually await on the horizon. If you find that it becomes a recurring problem, then it would be the time to actually have discussions of a breaking point.


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I don't think I agree with this. I've been told different by experienced counselors.

For example, when my father was first in an alcohol/drug treatment program, the head counselor told us"we don't get anybody here voluntarily". Some are forced to be here by court order, the others are forced by pressure from family or friends. In our case, Mom had a lawyer fill out divorce papers and show them to dad (they were never actually filed). The counselor said that was a fairly common move to 'force' someone into counseling.

I understand that often one of the first tasks in counseling is to get people to understand that 'they can get something useful from this counseling' (that they 'need' it often more of an admission than they will make). Sometimes it's only 'completing this program will get my family off my back'. But that's enough to get the counseling to start to work.

So go for counseling, even if you don't think you need it. If your sons need it, maybe you going too is the only way to get them to go. So do it.
Hmm, ok, I'll happily revise it to say "For counseling to work, you have to realize that you are contributing to the problem in some way at some point in the process. You're either passively or actively contributing to it if you're here." Yeah, that's incredibly lame and vague, but it's what I've understood. No one gets out of it completely unchanged, even if unsuccessful.
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Old 01-05-2020, 11:06 AM
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scabpicker, one does not need to have "problems they are responsible for" to benefit from counseling.

Since you've never been in counseling, maybe you need to lay off the lame and vague slogans?
  #176  
Old 01-05-2020, 12:31 PM
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scabpicker, one does not need to have "problems they are responsible for" to benefit from counseling.

Since you've never been in counseling, maybe you need to lay off the lame and vague slogans?
I've never been, but I know many people who have. If the OP's attitude about the situation does not change at some point from "he needs counseling, so he's going" to "we need counseling so we're going", I would predict poor outcomes.

Instead of basically telling me to shut up, why not correct my statement?
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Old 01-05-2020, 01:32 PM
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My therapist friend cut her teeth as a facilitator in court ordered domestic violence perpetrator's groups and believe me, one does NOT need to believe they need adjusting to benefit from counseling. In that milieu, the more advanced clients were instrumental in bringing the n00bs to the understanding that they do, indeed, have a big problem and had better get their shit together. Other convicted abusers giving social correction and the big stick of "get this shit right or get your ass back to jail" hanging over their heads provided a lot of attitude change in those guys. Pretty much all of them came to appreciate and understand their error but the work started long before the attitude adjustment. Something as simple as the required use of non-gendered language (they had to refer to their victims as their "partner" rather than "wife" or "girlfriend" or "that harpy") will begin to effect change even on an unwilling and resistant participant.
  #178  
Old 01-05-2020, 02:07 PM
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Instead of basically telling me to shut up, why not correct my statement?
There are plenty of problems a person may need help addressing or coping with that they are not responsible for, that they do have not contribute to. If you can't imagine a problem like this, you have no business telling someone what counseling may or may not do for them.

I didn't tell you to shut up, by the way. I told you to stop trying to come up with lame and vague slogans about who benefits from counseling when you have no first-hand experience with it.
  #179  
Old 01-07-2020, 09:35 AM
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I'm a little horrified at how many people have come out on the side of "it's just weed, it's no big deal".

While I don't know where the OP lives, there's a very good chance it's illegal. That could get them in trouble with the law - though less so than 30 years ago, I gather.

Someone said "teenage boy behind the wheel" being a greater risk. So, OK, how about a teenage boy who's been indulging, behind the wheel? If they're using a few times a week, there's a pretty good chance this combination has happened.

The dangers of much stronger pot, and the boys' ages, are less certain but there are a number of studies showing quite a few long-term problems. I like that the family is making the kids talk to a doctor about this. The direct effects on IQ and overall performance (see this link) are pretty frightening to me - aside from the concerns over this being "self-medicating" behavior.

It's not clear whether the kids are having some fun once a week, or doing it daily. While that link suggests that even occasional users show some decline, I'd definitely be worried more if they used it more frequently.

Anyway - those of you who say "no big deal" are understating the issues. From a social standpoint, I agree, but it's still a Big Deal in general.

That said, yeah, the OP *and* the boys might benefit from some counselling to repair the relationship.
  #180  
Old 01-07-2020, 01:11 PM
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Ok, so just as complex as real life usually is. I'd say that their subsequent apparent acknowledgement of the gravity of the situation would still merit mercy and understanding, even if they had the normal human reaction of "how do I get out of this?" initially. Be as nice as you can and understand that their behavior is not a personal affront. Seriously, almost no one thinks about what mom and dad would think in the heat of the moment, the ones who do are better than most of us. If you feel their contrition was genuine, I would say that since no actual harm was done (nobody got hurt in a material way), I'd say to talk about it as much as seems necessary or useful, forgive and forget as much as you can. Even if your lives are normal lives, bigger decisions and/or problems continually await on the horizon. If you find that it becomes a recurring problem, then it would be the time to actually have discussions of a breaking point.

Hmm, ok, I'll happily revise it to say "For counseling to work, you have to realize that you are contributing to the problem in some way at some point in the process. You're either passively or actively contributing to it if you're here." Yeah, that's incredibly lame and vague, but it's what I've understood. No one gets out of it completely unchanged, even if unsuccessful.
The line I've bolded is simply wrong. People who've been subjected to domestic abuse constantly hear that they're contributing to the problem. The problem lies solely with the abuser. Counseling can help a victim see that.

And you're completely ignoring people with PTSD. How does a veteran or rape victim contribute to the problem?
  #181  
Old 01-07-2020, 01:12 PM
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Well, then, I must have exceptional kids because ever since this has happened, they have both expressed a desire to get back to our relationship we had before all this. And they donít care if it requires random tests, counseling or whatever. They are eager to rebuild the trust.
This indicates to me that, however you are doing parenting, it's working.

Everyone always has ideas on how you should raise your kids. Maybe some of those ideas are good.

Smile politely, and then do as you think best. You know your kids better than anyone in this thread, and they know you, better than anyone in this thread (including me).

No doubt a lot of parents think "it's just a little weed, no big deal" and their kids turn out fine. Other parents think "this is a big deal" and their kids still turn out fine.

Which set of parents is right? Who cares, as long as the kids turn out fine. And yours are turning out fine.

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  #182  
Old 01-08-2020, 12:30 AM
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The line I've bolded is simply wrong. People who've been subjected to domestic abuse constantly hear that they're contributing to the problem. The problem lies solely with the abuser. Counseling can help a victim see that.

And you're completely ignoring people with PTSD. How does a veteran or rape victim contribute to the problem?
Ok, I think the problem may be that I didn't specify that I was speaking about the drug and family counseling that my friends and family have been through, sometimes repeatedly. I would have imagined that it was apparent that I wasn't speaking of the practice in general, but that appears to be the confusion.

An now that I think about it, I have been through a state-mandated drug counseling course ages ago for weed possession. It was so poorly thought out and had such a high content of "This was not the money making proposition that I thought it would be, and this is the last of these I'm doing" (literal quote from the lady running the sessions), that it wasn't going to have any effect whatsoever. So, I figure I can be forgiven for forgetting it earlier. Let's just say that all counseling isn't the same. I don't know how you'd shop for such a thing, but I wish you good luck in finding a good one, Declanium!
  #183  
Old 01-08-2020, 12:42 AM
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Missed the edit window, but: That last wish of good luck might sound flippant, but it isn't. I know rehab as well as anyone could who hasn't been in*. At any given time, there are lot of outfits in the rehab world who aren't doing anyone any good, just soaking up insurance. I've even had people say that different Salvation Army locations have very different atmospheres and success rates as a result. If you do get involved in that route, be very careful.


*Yeah, yeah, later I'll remember that I have been in rehab. I really don't think I have been. No one's even offered to put me there.
  #184  
Old 02-04-2020, 01:07 AM
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Bumping this thread, because this discussion with Declanium has continued here, and I think perhaps it should move back to the right thread.

To repeat what I said there:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Declanium View Post
And tbh I have no one in my area with similar experience. Everyone is going on about how great their kids are...smart, motivated, responsible and trustworthy. No drug experience at all. Isolated here
In other words, this is about keeping up with the Joneses, who have such wonderful and perfect children. This is about her own ego. She sees her sons as her possessions that she can use to show off how what a wonderful mom she is. That's why there's this huge over-reaction.

She is not actually devastated about them, but about herself. 'Other people's kids are so perfect, and that means other people have beaten me in the competition as to who can bring up their kids better. My kids have failed me and betrayed me, despite all I have done for them, by making me lose the competition to be better than the neighbors.' She likes to imagine this is about what is best for her kids, but really it's all about her.

Her sons will be leaving home in a few years, and probably they will do better out of the grip of such a controlling and obsessive mother.

Perhaps... they were smoking dope as a way of dealing with the stress of living with their extremely demanding mother.
  #185  
Old 02-04-2020, 01:38 AM
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I haven't been following this closely, but while there's probably some truth in the above post, it seems a little harsh.

I would say that while it may feel lonely, it's almost certain plenty of other families are going through similar, and worse. People only tend to talk about good stuff, social media being a prime example of this. It's not uncommon for people to post all about their perfect lives on Facebook while simultaneously having a mental breakdown, for example.
  #186  
Old 02-04-2020, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
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I haven't been following this closely, but while there's probably some truth in the above post, it seems a little harsh.

I would say that while it may feel lonely, it's almost certain plenty of other families are going through similar, and worse. People only tend to talk about good stuff, social media being a prime example of this. It's not uncommon for people to post all about their perfect lives on Facebook while simultaneously having a mental breakdown, for example.
Not infrequently, it's pretty easy to read between the lines, or even the lines themselves.

A perfect example? People (usually, but not always, women) who all of a sudden constantly post about how they and their partner are so happy, and so in love, yadda yadda yadda, are usually headed to changing their relationship status to "It's complicated." Nobody's lives are that perfect, KWIM?
  #187  
Old 02-04-2020, 09:47 AM
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From the other thread:

Quote:
I’m realistic. Once you’ve been getting high at 15, you’re probably always going to be a drug user.
Sorry if it offends people here. This refers back to the original post, so we’re not veering off topic. If you’re using drugs at 16, you will always be using drugs. There.
That's rich - especially from someone who admits to limited experience w/ drugs or drug users. Sounds like the OP really bought into the whole counseling thing...

Couple of things - there is a VAST difference between how sdifferent people use substances. MANY people (young and old) enjoy an occasional drink of alcohol. Others are binge or habitual drinkers. I would suspect that those who are binge/heavy drinkers when young might be more likely to have undesirable/unhealthy habits continue when older, but I haven't studied it. And I suspect a similar pattern would hold true for pot. I don't recall the OP describing how frequently and when the kids got high. There is a WORLD of difference between a couple of hits at a party on a Friday night, and getting stoned every day before school. That the OP does not acknowledge as much, says a lot about her mindset.

And just a datapoint. From high school through college and into young adulthood, there were few people who smoked/drank more than me. I haven't drunk in 30+ years, smoked in 10+, been married 35 years, have a very secure/well paying job, parented 3 kids all independent and in longterm relationships... Yeah, I guess I'm just a fuckup.
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  #188  
Old 02-04-2020, 09:52 AM
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OP responding. And yes, weed is a problem for them. Youngest one especially. He was smoking alone, which is bad. He said he was doing it once every two weeks but thatís not accurate. He had approx $1000 from a part time job and he only had $80 left. Over 10 months, thatís a lot of smoking. Binging as you say.

Last edited by Declanium; 02-04-2020 at 09:55 AM.
  #189  
Old 02-04-2020, 09:56 AM
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I'll add anecdata that I first got high on pot at around 15/16 (I think), not really on a regular basis but would sometimes go out of my way to seek out situations where this was a good possibility. Continued to use it occasionally at university, hardly touched it since and not at all for about 10 years now. Never been tempted to try any other drugs. I think many of my friends had similar experiences. So the part quoted in Dinsdale's post above is most certainly not inevitable.

Last edited by Dead Cat; 02-04-2020 at 09:56 AM.
  #190  
Old 02-04-2020, 10:06 AM
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OP, do you really think that 1/4 to 1/3 of teens (the percentage of teens who try pot) grow up to be fuck-ups? You are blowing this completely out of proportion.

Your professed lack of parenting skills is dismaying. What kind of relationship do you want to have with your sons 10 years down the road? You're pretty much ensuring it'll be poor if you believe what you're saying here.
  #191  
Old 02-04-2020, 10:09 AM
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He had approx $1000 from a part time job and he only had $80 left. Over 10 months, thatís a lot of smoking. Binging as you say.
IME, a big chunk of that money went for pizza.
  #192  
Old 02-04-2020, 10:14 AM
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OP responding. And yes, weed is a problem for them. Youngest one especially. He was smoking alone, which is bad. He said he was doing it once every two weeks but that’s not accurate. He had approx $1000 from a part time job and he only had $80 left. Over 10 months, that’s a lot of smoking. Binging as you say.
Was he buying gas for his car? Snacks? Video games? Taking a date out for dinner?
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  #193  
Old 02-04-2020, 10:19 AM
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No. Just weed. Maybe food on occasion.
  #194  
Old 02-04-2020, 10:23 AM
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Pretty much every kid I grew up with, including myself, tried drugs in their teens (weed and pills most commonly). About half used them regularly. At least 75% of both categories turned out fine as adults.
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:48 AM
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So, OP - I trust the cnslng didn't work out as you had hoped?

I'm curious. You see this as a MUCH bigger problem than many of us. How have you tried to address this constructively, and what have the results been? Not many folk were as keen on counselling as you were - your most recent posts suggest it has not been all that you might have hoped. Am I misreading things?

Many of us view this as firmly w/in the realm of expected parenting shit - far milder than many possibilities. If this was such a big deal for so long, how was it that you were unaware until recently? What could you have done differently then and now?

Hell, if you are convinced that the kids are irredeemable fuck-ups - here in IL a kid can become an emancipated adult at age 16 or 17 (I forget which - but I DID know at a time when my youngest was refusing to be at least superficially polite to us.)
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  #196  
Old 02-04-2020, 11:26 AM
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Counseling provided me with the directive that a parent can advise, not control. And that despite my advice, the world encouraged their experimentation.
She advised me to prepare to disengage as older son goes to college. He will have to suffer natural consequences of his actions, whether it be legal, health wise, or education wise.
My husband’s family has addiction issues so she feels it was right to get them into counseling.
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Old 02-04-2020, 12:59 PM
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As someone who doesn't like drug use and will never do it (or plan to end up with someone who does), even I feel you are over-reacting. I get being disappointed and wanting to turn this around, but treating your kids like pariahs is the LAST thing you should be doing.

My brother was in college when my parents discovered he'd been smoking weed. They had a family talk, and I believe he had to spend the next 2-3 years of school at home (they were paying for his schooling). No one was screaming, no one was shouting. My parents didn't let on that they were angry so much as concerned for his future, as was I. But nothing really changed in how my parents treated him. Nowadays, about 8 years later, you'd never even know it happened at all. They're aware he still uses sometimes, but he's an adult and has long since moved out. It's sort of a don't ask, don't tell kind of policy, and everyone gets along great.

I went through a period in school of really shitty grades (mostly in math - I was pretty good everywhere else). I got a few minor punishments like not being able to go out for a period of time (as had my brother). But it was obvious my parents loved me, and still treated me the same.

Let this go. Enforce boundaries, but let them know that nothing has really changed, and you still love them. Don't be petty and withhold your attention from them, or they'll likely never reconnect to you the same way again.
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Old 02-04-2020, 01:10 PM
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Ok, kovitlac. You say “he still uses.”
This fortified my belief that this behavior never goes away.
It’s not being petty. I don’t think doing drugs at any stage of the game is productive.
In their 20’s, I would still think it’s a bad idea to do drugs. Instead focus on career, or relationships, or having families of their own later on. Does anyone think it’s a great idea to smoke pot while minding a toddler? What if you have to drive the child to the ER?

And grades are completely different.
We’ve been thru that and frankly, shitty grades don’t concern me as much as something that could damage you health-wise and kill your spirit.

Last edited by Declanium; 02-04-2020 at 01:13 PM.
  #199  
Old 02-04-2020, 01:14 PM
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Ok, kovitlac. You say ďhe still uses.Ē
This fortified my belief that this behavior never goes away.
Itís not being petty. I donít think doing drugs at any stage of the game is productive.
In their 20ís, I would still think itís a bad idea to dog drugs. Instead focus on career, or relationships, or having families of their own later on. Does anyone think itís a great idea to smoke pot while minding a toddler? What if you have to drive the child to the ER?
It's a bad idea to have a few beers while watching a toddler, but fully functioning adults will regularly have a few beers and get along just fine. Even parents!

Just think of weed like alcohol and you'll be fine. Doing anything in excess is bad, doing most things in moderation is fine.
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Old 02-04-2020, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Declanium View Post
He had approx $1000 from a part time job and he only had $80 left. Over 10 months, thatís a lot of smoking. Binging as you say.
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Originally Posted by purplehorseshoe View Post
Was he buying gas for his car? Snacks? Video games? Taking a date out for dinner?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Declanium View Post
No. Just weed. Maybe food on occasion.
Something aint right here. A kid spending close to a grand on weed over a ten month period without his parents realizing? No way.

Let's say he's totally getting screwed and is paying $350 for an ounce. That's 28 grams. I smoke every evening and yet a gram will last me five days. Lets say I go through an additional gram on the weekend, so two grams a week. That $350 ounce will last me 14 weeks.

So yes, I can easily spend a grand on weed over the course of ten months, but I'm obviously stoned much of the time.
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