Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 01-16-2020, 10:49 AM
DSeid's Avatar
DSeid is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 23,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles
Is Pelosi withholding Impeachment articles to derail Senators?
Yes. She has been very explicit about that. The key vulnerable GOP Senators who will have to decide between joining the sham toady parade or standing up to leadership Trump inclusive, either one of which costs them something and more the more clear it is that GOP Senate leadership has prejudged the outcome and is preventing truth from coming out.
  #52  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:47 AM
Jim Peebles is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
Yes. She has been very explicit about that. The key vulnerable GOP Senators who will have to decide between joining the sham toady parade or standing up to leadership Trump inclusive, either one of which costs them something and more the more clear it is that GOP Senate leadership has prejudged the outcome and is preventing truth from coming out.
So one person says I am bonkers, another says I am absolutely correct, all in the same morning.
  #53  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:56 AM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 19,344
Because DSeid is making a completely different point than you are. He's not agreeing with you. How can you not see that?
  #54  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:03 PM
Jim Peebles is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
Because DSeid is making a completely different point than you are. He's not agreeing with you. How can you not see that?
He has conceded Pelosi was trying to hurt the primary chances of senators by withholding impeachment articles. That includes Sanders, Warren, and Klobuchar. Therefore supporters of all affected senators have reason to be upset, including Sanders, Warren, and Klobuchar supporters.

Last edited by Jim Peebles; 01-16-2020 at 12:06 PM.
  #55  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:06 PM
Gyrate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greater Croydonia
Posts: 24,354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
He has conceded Pelosi was trying to hurt the primary chances of senators. That includes Sanders, Warren, and Klobuchar. Therefore supporters of all affected senators have reason to be upset, including Sanders, Warren, and Klobuchar supporters.
That's not remotely what DSeid said. The straws you are grasping at are imaginary.
  #56  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:10 PM
Jim Peebles is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
That's not remotely what DSeid said. The straws you are grasping at are imaginary.
He quoted my question and answered Yes. How is that ambiguous?
  #57  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:16 PM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 19,344
DSeid talked about, very explicitly, GOP senators. So you're playing some game or are dyslexic.

Last edited by CarnalK; 01-16-2020 at 12:16 PM.
  #58  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:18 PM
DSeid's Avatar
DSeid is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 23,348
Let us make this very clear. The idea that Pelosi is making tactical decision with the D presidential primary in mind, aiming to handicap the D senator candidates is bonkers.

She IS making a tactical decision to impact senators, a few very specific ones: the several R senators in vulnerable races. Flipping the Senate is the very ambitious goal that she is trying to optimize the odds of.

Correct that there is nothing ambiguous in what I wrote so your misunderstanding of it is very odd.
  #59  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:24 PM
Jim Peebles is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 573
Ok, so you two are saying the damage to the campaigns of Sanders, Warren, and Klobuchar is colateral damage, and no one should care.
  #60  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:29 PM
Telemark's Avatar
Telemark is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Just outside of Titletown
Posts: 23,489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
So one person says I am bonkers, another says I am absolutely correct, all in the same morning.
Rabbis Weiss, Friedman, and Bloom are discussing an intricate matter of scripture. Weiss and Bloom are taking one side, Friedman is steadfastly holding to the other. The argument goes on for hours. Finally, a booming voice from the heavens comes and says "Rabbi Friedman is right!"

After a long pause Rabbi Weiss says "So, now we're tied at 2 each."

You're wrong, and your whole premise is ludicrous.
  #61  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:29 PM
Airbeck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Chicago - South Side
Posts: 3,235
You haven't shown that they will be damaged in the way that the GOP senators are at risk to be damaged. Since when do Senators get to stop being Senators while running for office? The Dem senators will be fighting for what their voters want in the very public spotlight of the impeachment trial. The GOP senators will be caught between a rock and a hard place. Piss off the base, or piss off literally everyone else. You must be able to see the difference here, right?
__________________
"Sometimes I think that the surest sign of intelligent life in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." - Calvin and Hobbes
  #62  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:37 PM
Jim Peebles is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airbeck View Post
You haven't shown that they will be damaged in the way that the GOP senators are at risk to be damaged. Since when do Senators get to stop being Senators while running for office? The Dem senators will be fighting for what their voters want in the very public spotlight of the impeachment trial. The GOP senators will be caught between a rock and a hard place. Piss off the base, or piss off literally everyone else. You must be able to see the difference here, right?
I would argue low information voters are swayed by the candidate who just visited their area. While voters who are informed know the impeachment is a sham. So the Dem senators are stuck in DC unable to sway the low info voters, while Biden can travel all over the country swaying them.
  #63  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:39 PM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 19,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airbeck View Post
Since when do Senators get to stop being Senators while running for office?
Since always. Presidential candidates who are Senators can often have poor attendance records in the year they run. The difference here is that current rules require their attendance at impeachment sessions.
  #64  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:44 PM
Gyrate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greater Croydonia
Posts: 24,354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
Ok, so you two are saying the damage to the campaigns of Sanders, Warren, and Klobuchar is colateral damage, and no one should care.
You keep drawing conclusions that are not remotely supported by what is being said. If you prefer to debate with strawmen, the rest of us can bow out of this conversation and leave you to it.

Also, "voters who are informed" noticed that the President basically admitted to the thing he is accused of, his Chief of Staff blatantly admitted it, the GAO have just confirmed it, and Trump and Barr committed and continue to commit obstruction of justice by disregarding and instructing others to disregard Congressional subpoenas. Voters who get their news from FoxNews probably missed all that for some reason.
  #65  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:52 PM
Jim Peebles is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
You keep drawing conclusions that are not remotely supported by what is being said. If you prefer to debate with strawmen, the rest of us can bow out of this conversation and leave you to it.

Also, "voters who are informed" noticed that the President basically admitted to the thing he is accused of, his Chief of Staff blatantly admitted it, the GAO have just confirmed it, and Trump and Barr committed and continue to commit obstruction of justice by disregarding and instructing others to disregard Congressional subpoenas. Voters who get their news from FoxNews probably missed all that for some reason.
It's not a strawman. You just don't like the scope of this particular debate. I think we are all in agreement now that Pelosi withheld the articles to derail Senators. So I have won the debate. Now you want to create the strawman that we are debating whether the impeachment is a sham or not.
  #66  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:59 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 36,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
It's not a strawman. You just don't like the scope of this particular debate. I think we are all in agreement now that Pelosi withheld the articles to derail Senators. So I have won the debate. Now you want to create the strawman that we are debating whether the impeachment is a sham or not.
Congratulations on your self-declared victory! You appear to be learning from the best at declaring victory, facts be damned -- Trump himself. Well done!
  #67  
Old 01-16-2020, 01:03 PM
Gyrate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greater Croydonia
Posts: 24,354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
It's not a strawman.
It is.
Quote:
You just don't like the scope of this particular debate.
This is nonsense.
Quote:
I think we are all in agreement now that Pelosi withheld the articles to derail Senators.
Except that everyone else is pointing out that she's looking to derail Republican Senators and you keep insisting that it's about Sanders, Warren and Klobuchar. So we're only "in agreement" if you build that strawman.
Quote:
So I have won the debate.
If you say so. Feel free to buy yourself a trophy.
Quote:
Now you want to create the strawman that we are debating whether the impeachment is a sham or not.
Remind me who asserted that the "impeachment is a sham" in the first place? Oh yes - it was you. I directly responded to a statement you made and even provided evidence for my position. That's how debates actually work, rather than by pretending that other people said the opposite of what they did say and then claiming victory.

So you 1) built a strawman, 2) don't appear to know what a strawman is, and c) don't appear to understand how debates work. So much winning happening here.
  #68  
Old 01-16-2020, 01:10 PM
Jim Peebles is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
It is.
This is nonsense.
Except that everyone else is pointing out that she's looking to derail Republican Senators and you keep insisting that it's about Sanders, Warren and Klobuchar. So we're only "in agreement" if you build that strawman.
If you say so. Feel free to buy yourself a trophy.
Remind me who asserted that the "impeachment is a sham" in the first place? Oh yes - it was you. I directly responded to a statement you made and even provided evidence for my position. That's how debates actually work, rather than by pretending that other people said the opposite of what they did say and then claiming victory.

So you 1) built a strawman, 2) don't appear to know what a strawman is, and c) don't appear to understand how debates work. So much winning happening here.
We have all agreed Pelosi withheld the articles to derail Senators. That's all I was wondering. Now there is a new claim: only Republican Senator campaigns can be damaged by it. Unfortunately that is a new debate.
  #69  
Old 01-16-2020, 01:47 PM
drad dog is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 6,745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
When the impeacent trial is going on Senators can't campaign. (Although as a side debate: how enforceable is that rule?) Do you think Pelosi is holding off on submitting the impeachment articles until the best time to say derail Sanders in the primaries, or Republican senators trying to get reelected to the Senate?
Do you think an (impeacement) trial for a Republican potus has the same effect for R and D senators?

The Ds are conducting a civics clinic. The Rs are committing suicide by lie.
  #70  
Old 01-16-2020, 01:52 PM
QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 20,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
I would argue low information voters are swayed by the candidate who just visited their area. While voters who are informed know the impeachment is a sham. So the Dem senators are stuck in DC unable to sway the low info voters, while Biden can travel all over the country swaying them.
This is such an absurd argument that it borders on the diabolical.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #71  
Old 01-16-2020, 02:52 PM
RioRico is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: beyond cell service
Posts: 1,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
I think we are all in agreement now that Pelosi withheld the articles to derail Senators.
I think the quibble now is over which party's senators were targets of derailment.

Quote:
So I have won the debate.
Congratulations!
  #72  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:29 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 28,253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
I provided a link to a Buzzfeed article above which talks about the VERY restrictive Senate rules for Senators during an impeachment trual. Sanders, Warren, and Klo-bee supporters should be VERY upset that their candidates have to be physically present 6 days a week most of the day. I think it restricts them from holding campaign events 6 days a week. While Biden can hit a different state every day with a campaign event leading up to Iowa. They rigged it against Bernie in 2016, and they are doing it again. Enjoy the protest votes / stay homers on Election Day 2020 from upset Sanders, Warren, and Klo-bee supporters. Heck, I think they should run independent third party now.
Awwwww; how cute! Of course you do! Bless your heart! You're ever so special to us!
  #73  
Old 01-17-2020, 10:59 AM
DSeid's Avatar
DSeid is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 23,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by RioRico View Post
I think the quibble now is over which party's senators were targets of derailment.


Congratulations!
The quibbles with Peebles? No red meat here, just kibble. It's feeble.
  #74  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:21 AM
JohnT's Avatar
JohnT is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 24,276
LOL, Trump says it, so it must be true:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...930926082?s=20

"They are rigging the election again against Bernie Sanders, just like last time, only even more obviously. They are bringing him out of so important Iowa in order that, as a Senator, he sit through the Impeachment Hoax Trial. Crazy Nancy thereby gives the strong edge to Sleepy..."

Dipshit can't link tweets so gonna leave it up to the reader to figure out who was being called "Sleepy".
  #75  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:44 AM
Gyrate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greater Croydonia
Posts: 24,354
"Sleepy Joe" is his nickname for Biden. Because of course we have a president who gives everyone childish nicknames.
  #76  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:47 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 40,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
The quibbles with Peebles? No red meat here, just kibble. It's feeble.
+1
  #77  
Old 01-18-2020, 11:51 AM
Monocracy is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
We have all agreed Pelosi withheld the articles to derail Senators. That's all I was wondering. Now there is a new claim: only Republican Senator campaigns can be damaged by it. Unfortunately that is a new debate.
No that wasn't all you were wondering. You specifically mentioned in the OP the "campaign" and "Sanders". You also asked about Republican senators (so how is it a "new debate"?).

Everyone in this thread (except you) seems to agree that she withheld the articles to hurt Republican senators and not Democratic ones who are campaigning.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:10 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017