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  #251  
Old 01-23-2020, 07:42 PM
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Mr. Trump wasn't the one that went to Ukraine to play detective, so could you explain what you mean when you write "what he did"?

Sage Rat had originally argued that Mr. Trump's actions were a dereliction of his duties and thus unconstitutional, because Mr. Trump is not a law enforcement officer, and I assume Sage Rat's argument is that Mr. Trump's actions would only have been constitutional if he were a law enforcement officer. It is still not clear which particular actions we are talking about, and thus it is unclear if the defense theory addresses this.

I can only guess that you two think only law enforcement officers can request a foreign nation to investigate something. But law enforcement officers work for the president, and foreign law enforcement officers work for the foreign president, so I see no reason that our president and their president can't talk to eachother about the work of their respective underlings, or to arrange some sort of cooperation.

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I'm pretty sure you don't have a real job. "Libertarian hacker"?
  #252  
Old 01-23-2020, 07:53 PM
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John Roberts must be the most bored man on the planet.
Roberts has listened (on the 21st) to members of Trump's defense team speaking outright lies.

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During his opening remarks at the Senate removal trial of Donald Trump, White House Counsel Pat Cipollone lied. Repeatedly. Cipollone said that Republicans were not allowed in the Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility to participate in depositions taken during the House’s impeachment investigation. That is a demonstrable lie. He accused Representative Adam Schiff of having “manufactured” a “false version” of Trump’s phone call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky. That’s not true. He played fast and loose with the timeline around the Zelensky call, alleging a controversy over the first phone call that never happened. ...

... we haven’t seen the Trump people lie so brazenly in court, or something that appears to be court. We haven’t seen them lie after oaths have been taken. A lot of people thought that a trial presided over by the chief justice of the United States would be the moment where the lying stopped....

If you read the rules for this trial, as transmitted by Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell, you’ll note that there’s no penalty for “lying.” There is not even a procedure to determine if somebody has lied.

In a normal trial, the judge is empowered to stop advocates like Cipollone from openly and obviously lying to the court and the jury. In a normal trial, the judge would have been empowered to cut Cipollone off, mid-lie if necessary, and demand that he “approach the bench.” There, he’d be admonished for lying to the jury. If he continued with the lie or did it again, a judge could hold Cipollone in contempt, or even declare a “mistrial” and force the whole process to start again.

Chief Justice John Roberts has no such power here. ...
https://www.thenation.com/article/ci...eachment-lies/

In addition to the blatant lying, Roberts is also witnessing the Senators' contempt for the 'stay silent' instructions read out by the Sergeant at Arms each day. (They may not be gabbing in the chamber, but they're gabbing plenty outside, including giving FoxNews interviews.) Plus he gets to watch them get up and leave, or if seated, play with fidget spinners or work crossword puzzles.

So I'm guessing that Roberts is not so much bored, as he is disgusted. Imagine anyone conducting themselves this way in a Supreme Court oral-argument session!
  #253  
Old 01-23-2020, 09:02 PM
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Chain of command is mandatory in orgs like LE and the military for obvious reasons. Sometimes you even get "topped" for violating it, depending on the theater of the violation. It has to do with protocol: both going up the chain and going down.

It was not appropraite if he is sandbagging his own foreign office about it, and holding up our money.
Besides, even if it’s not being entered as evidence into this trial - we know that Rudy Guliani, who was instrumental in this off-the-books investigation, has always specifically claimed he was working for the President in a personal capacity. And that’s in documented in contemporaneous writings, although I guess we don’t know if they’ll be able to admit those documents.

And I don’t think private citizen Donald Trump has any more authority to ask Ukraine for a favor than private citizen Max S. or private citizen Ann Hedonia does.
  #254  
Old 01-23-2020, 09:14 PM
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I want to know how my senator is behaving. My state's one of those that's been gerrymandered into a red state despite the actual population makeup. My senator often shows up on TV spouting nonsense. I'd like to be able to call him out if he can't even sit still and listen for a few hours at a time and pretend that all this matters.
Go check out his Twitter account. If it’s like my senator’s account, people that are watching will notice him being inattentive or leaving the room, and post it and call him out. And they’ll also notice when he tweets when he should be listening.

And you can scold him and blow off some steam while you’re there. It makes always me feel a little better.

ETA: I’m a little confused. I know they gerrymander house seats, but how do you gerrymander a Senate seat? Doesn’t each state get two that serve the entire state?

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 01-23-2020 at 09:15 PM.
  #255  
Old 01-23-2020, 09:23 PM
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Besides, even if it’s not being entered as evidence into this trial - we know that Rudy Guliani, who was instrumental in this off-the-books investigation, has always specifically claimed he was working for the President in a personal capacity. And that’s in documented in contemporaneous writings, although I guess we don’t know if they’ll be able to admit those documents.

And I don’t think private citizen Donald Trump has any more authority to ask Ukraine for a favor than private citizen Max S. or private citizen Ann Hedonia does.
Sorry, Ann, but under the "idiot king" doctrine if there is any exculpatory explanation for anything he ever did, you need to prove that he was not thinking about it (at the time you are trying to demonstrate his crime occurred). Thanks for trying. Good luck in the future.
  #256  
Old 01-23-2020, 10:14 PM
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Thinking about it, I think that the strongest argument that the Democrats could and should make is to the Republicans about the result if they vote to back Trump.

If you help a murderer to hide the body, you're complicit. That murderer knows that you did it. He holds that over you.

Today, to at least some extent, the Senate holds control over Donald Trump.

After this trial, they will not. He will own them. And not only will he own them, they will have set the precedent of zero compliance with Congress and okayed it, doubling up on the damage.

If they take this path, they aren't failing to punish Donald Trump for being the corrupt moron that he is, they're giving him the keys to the kingdom. And he'll still be that same corrupt moron. Every Republican senator is choosing to slit his own throat, and to do it with a knife carved out of frozen feces.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 01-23-2020 at 10:16 PM.
  #257  
Old 01-23-2020, 10:46 PM
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So, now the Republicans embark on a point by point rebuttal, refuting all the witnesses, documents, etc? Or do they just issue a Declaration of Nunh-UH and call it a day?
  #258  
Old 01-24-2020, 01:47 AM
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So, now the Republicans embark on a point by point rebuttal, refuting all the witnesses, documents, etc? Or do they just issue a Declaration of Nunh-UH and call it a day?
Probably something along these lines...
  #259  
Old 01-24-2020, 02:45 AM
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So, now the Republicans embark on a point by point rebuttal, refuting all the witnesses, documents, etc? Or do they just issue a Declaration of Nunh-UH and call it a day?
I'm guessing it will be like the Kavanaugh hearing but longer. Just one big primal scream aimed at whipping the base up into a frenzy.
  #260  
Old 01-24-2020, 02:54 AM
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So, now the Republicans embark on a point by point rebuttal, refuting all the witnesses, documents, etc? Or do they just issue a Declaration of Nunh-UH and call it a day?
I would expect that they'll repeat what they wrote.

To summarize: They'll assert a reality that uses cherry-picked facts, presented out of context, which are convenient to them and completely ignore everything else. Any facts which are inconvenient or damning do not exist.

It is the Trump mantra. Assert the reality you desire and when the little kid steps up to point out the emperor's nudity, the emperor ignores him and everyone else ignores him since it's not like they didn't all already know.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 01-24-2020 at 02:55 AM.
  #261  
Old 01-24-2020, 07:02 AM
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I've paid almost no attention to the the Trial of D.J. Trump until just now when I watched Seth's A Closer Look. I suspect it is a pretty good summary.
  #262  
Old 01-24-2020, 07:51 AM
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That Schiff closing argument is just devastating. Shame the Republicans in congress are so incredibly dishonorable, pretty much to a man (and woman).
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  #263  
Old 01-24-2020, 08:17 AM
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That Schiff closing argument is just devastating. Shame the Republicans in congress are so incredibly dishonorable, pretty much to a man (and woman).

But see, Sen. John Barrasso (R, Wyoming) was just on CNN basically explaining that what the impeachment is really about is making Chuck Schumer the Majority Leader in the Senate. Trump is just the victim and vehicle of this plot. Republicans are defending our democracy, elections, and the will of the American people.
  #264  
Old 01-24-2020, 08:26 AM
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"No constitution can protect us if right doesn't matter"
-- Adam Schiff

He's absolutely correct. It is beyond obvious that Trump is guilty. All the matters is whether the rule of law and the constitution will be upheld. Trumpists better be careful. You might get what you wish for. The office of the president will become above the law. And perhaps somebody is so partisan that while Trump is in office they're ok with this because he bears the (R). But Trump won't be president forever. A Democrat will be in office eventually. Do you want the office of the president to be above the law under a Democrat? What happens if the Democrats decide that to compete they need to be as authoritarian as the Republicans? What happens to your country?

In another thread, somebody (I don't recall and it isn't important) said they would vote for Trump if the Democrat candidate was not going to deal with border issues. This is madness to me. There is no issue that the Republicans can offer that is more important than ensuring the rule of law. A vote for Trump is a vote for making the president king. No matter how much damage you think the Democrats might do on any issue, nothing trumps (ha!) this absolutely primal requirement to have a functional democracy.
  #265  
Old 01-24-2020, 08:29 AM
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So, now the Republicans embark on a point by point rebuttal, refuting all the witnesses, documents, etc? Or do they just issue a Declaration of Nunh-UH and call it a day?
Or this.

Written 17 years ago and still pertinent.
  #266  
Old 01-24-2020, 10:38 AM
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In another thread, somebody (I don't recall and it isn't important) said they would vote for Trump if the Democrat candidate was not going to deal with border issues. This is madness to me. There is no issue that the Republicans can offer that is more important than ensuring the rule of law. A vote for Trump is a vote for making the president king. No matter how much damage you think the Democrats might do on any issue, nothing trumps (ha!) this absolutely primal requirement to have a functional democracy.
Trump isn't dealing with the border issue. He's destroying DHS and the amount of money going from Mexican workers to Mexico is up.

He hasn't looked at e-verify, he hasn't tried to charge people who hire illegals (giving them an incentive to come in and stay in illegally), nor done anything else that might actually be effective.

If someone complains about all the mosquitoes, gets up, grabs a rifle, walks back a hundred yards, and starts shooting this way - when there was a bottle of insect spray right there, a fly swatter, and various other implements that are built to fight mosquitoes - I am personally inclined to believe that the person just wanted an excuse to go shooting.

In Trump's case, he wanted an excuse to build a wall. He has friends in construction.
  #267  
Old 01-24-2020, 11:49 AM
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Trump isn't dealing with the border issue. He's destroying DHS and the amount of money going from Mexican workers to Mexico is up.

He hasn't looked at e-verify, he hasn't tried to charge people who hire illegals (giving them an incentive to come in and stay in illegally), nor done anything else that might actually be effective.

If someone complains about all the mosquitoes, gets up, grabs a rifle, walks back a hundred yards, and starts shooting this way - when there was a bottle of insect spray right there, a fly swatter, and various other implements that are built to fight mosquitoes - I am personally inclined to believe that the person just wanted an excuse to go shooting.

In Trump's case, he wanted an excuse to build a wall. He has friends in construction.
It doesn't matter. Even if you pretend that he is. Suppose Trump is in fact doing all of the things he promised. Suppose he's bringing back jobs. He's reducing the trade deficit. He's blah blah blah. He's not doing these things, but let's say that he is. What difference does it make if he's undermining American democracy? Is there any issue more important than maintaining the democratic principles of the country? What could any American be willing to trade in exchange for democracy? In my view, the only answer to that can be nothing. And once you trade it away, it is so very hard to get it back.

(you here is general you, not Sage Rat)
  #268  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:07 PM
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In addition to the blatant lying, Roberts is also witnessing the Senators' contempt for the 'stay silent' instructions read out by the Sergeant at Arms each day. (They may not be gabbing in the chamber, but they're gabbing plenty outside, including giving FoxNews interviews.) Plus he gets to watch them get up and leave, or if seated, play with fidget spinners or work crossword puzzles.
Lindsey Graham says House Democrats' arguments are "mind-numbing" and can be "hard to follow".
  #269  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:17 PM
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I have questions.
1. What happens if he actually is impeached?
2. How many votes would it take to impeach him?
3. What if he isn't? Will they keep trying something, anything?
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  #270  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:17 PM
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That's for feeding the base. Meanwhile, privately....

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...ry-well-spoken
  #271  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:23 PM
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I have questions.
1. What happens if he actually is impeached?
2. How many votes would it take to impeach him?
He's already been impeached.
  #272  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:39 PM
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It doesn't matter. Even if you pretend that he is. Suppose Trump is in fact doing all of the things he promised. Suppose he's bringing back jobs. He's reducing the trade deficit. He's blah blah blah. He's not doing these things, but let's say that he is. What difference does it make if he's undermining American democracy? Is there any issue more important than maintaining the democratic principles of the country? What could any American be willing to trade in exchange for democracy? In my view, the only answer to that can be nothing. And once you trade it away, it is so very hard to get it back.

(you here is general you, not Sage Rat)
In your view.

If you want to persuade someone, it can be useful to consider their view.

I agree with your view. But I'm a philosophical type who is strongly interested in the developmental history of humanity's social achievements.

Your average person likes to hire people like Hugo Chavez, Donald Trump, and Edwin Edwards. They're not concerned with the law or norms or anything, just whether it's the guy who promises them pizza every day for lunch, or the guy who says that he's going to institute a 10 minute daily calisthenics event for everyone, during second break, to improve health and longevity.

Despite common belief, the evidence would say that your average person doesn't advance greatly from how they were in high school. They just get fatter with more grey hair.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 01-24-2020 at 12:40 PM.
  #273  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:45 PM
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In more positive and less cynical news, the most recent Emerson College survey had a 4% increase in the will to remove the President, among Republicans.

That said, their previous number was 18% of Republicans and their new number is 22%, so their batch of Republicans seem to be non-standard (most other pools are in the 9-10% range). Possibly, they're tracking people who are in more moderate/purple districts. But that would be an indicator that at least that group is migrating their opinion.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 01-24-2020 at 12:46 PM.
  #274  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:50 PM
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He's already been impeached.
Sorry. I meant removed from office.
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  #275  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:54 PM
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I have questions.
1. What happens if he actually is impeached?
Then the articles of impeachment go to the Senate and they have a trial.
  #276  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:54 PM
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He's already been impeached.
This isn't helpful.

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Sorry. I meant removed from office.
It takes 2/3 of the Senators present to convict and remove. If he's removed, the Vice President, of course, becomes President. As a practical matter, I'm not willing to speculate what that means for the country.

Last edited by Personal; 01-24-2020 at 12:55 PM.
  #277  
Old 01-24-2020, 01:30 PM
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So I'm guessing that Roberts is not so much bored, as he is disgusted. Imagine anyone conducting themselves this way in a Supreme Court oral-argument session!
Yes, and on the floor of the senate, no less. Why, it's the greatest deliberative body in the world! don't you know.

I'm reminded of Robert Caro's 100 page history of the senate at the beginning of his book on LBJ, "Master of the Senate." While acknowledging that the senate as at times risen to level of accomplishment envisioned by the Framers, and has passed great and effective laws on occasion, he writes of how senators have long held way too high an opinion of themselves, and throughout the senate's history it has been the site of petty squabbles, ultra-partisanship, and all manner of reprehensible incidents.
  #278  
Old 01-24-2020, 01:39 PM
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Trumpists better be careful. You might get what you wish for. The office of the president will become above the law. And perhaps somebody is so partisan that while Trump is in office they're ok with this because he bears the (R). But Trump won't be president forever. A Democrat will be in office eventually. Do you want the office of the president to be above the law under a Democrat? What happens if the Democrats decide that to compete they need to be as authoritarian as the Republicans?

The problem with this argument is that it assumes equivalence between the parties and that hypocrisy matters. If a Democrat comes into office and starts acting authoritarian, what willl happen is that the Republicans will do a 180 degree pivot on their unitary executive theory, and join the significant portion of Democrats who believe in the rule of law over partisanship to kick him out of office.
  #279  
Old 01-24-2020, 01:51 PM
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3. What if he isn't? Will they keep trying something, anything?
Should be when he isn't, No one seriously thinks that 20 Republicans Senators are going to suddenly find a conscience. As to what happens, I don't see any further impeachment actions until after the election, although there might be more general investigations of his wrong doing as they come up.

If he wins in 2020 then its possible they could take another shot at him but only there is evidence that he did something even more egregious than what we have seen so far. For example if he directly interfered with with vote counts, jailed members of the opposition, launched missle strikes at rival hotels etc..
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:15 PM
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And just to add this part of that comment from Graham: “They are over trying their case,”

While I don't necessarily disagree with this comment, surely he knows that the Democrats know there is no chance that Trump won't be acquitted (and of course he does, and we all know that) and must realize that said Democrats are trying to produce as many sound bites as possible to use in political ads. Which to my mind is the the best they can hope for. And I hope that doesn't sound pessimistic. I believe they could be quite effective, and even more so if Trump's team provides additional fodder for those ads.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 01-24-2020 at 02:15 PM.
  #281  
Old 01-24-2020, 02:21 PM
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Sorry. I meant removed from office.
squeegee already knew that. Welcome to the Dope.

It takes 67 votes, but there will only be 49 or so.

Are the sportsbooks making odds? Romney and Murkowski are likely to show integrity, I'd guess. Any others?
  #282  
Old 01-24-2020, 02:28 PM
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And just to add this part of that comment from Graham: “They are over trying their case,”

While I don't necessarily disagree with this comment, surely he knows that the Democrats know there is no chance that Trump won't be acquitted (and of course he does, and we all know that) and must realize that said Democrats are trying to produce as many sound bites as possible to use in political ads. Which to my mind is the the best they can hope for. And I hope that doesn't sound pessimistic. I believe they could be quite effective, and even more so if Trump's team provides additional fodder for those ads.
There is also the view that they are bringing reality, that they are behaving in a righteous manner, regardless of the fronting and fixing the other side wants to engage in.

These things are only a done deal to losers, not that you are one. But generally speaking, the "done deal" is a republican spin on this, because they want to hide in the shadows. "Done deal" is their deepest fantasy. Screw them and their fucking wet dreams.

The republicans are choosing to burn their party in public and for history with gaslighting and lies, fear and threats. "Done deal" would imply that there is no cost or reckoning, and that the dems are just acting quixotically and without meaning for the country. I don't think so.

All the documents in this administration will be public in not too long. The "secrecy" of this moment is a bubble that will burst. What do the public performances of rebupkis look like then, maybe a few months from now?
  #283  
Old 01-24-2020, 02:33 PM
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NETA: I deliberately omitted Susan Collins from the tiny list of GOP Senators who might show integrity and — coincidence! — clicked to Google News to find that the Hypocrite from Maine has just confirmed that she no longer even pretends to be a fan of Truth, Justice, or America. She's just a contemptible bag of pure partisanship like the rest of her ilk.

Almost the entire GOP is beyond redemption.
  #284  
Old 01-24-2020, 02:53 PM
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Are the sportsbooks making odds? Romney and Murkowski are likely to show integrity, I'd guess. Any others?
PredictIt impeachment markets.

Romney convict at $0.15. Murkowski convict at $0.24.
  #285  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:18 PM
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Holy Schiff. This is amazing. Going to find a recording of Schiff's current remarks and play them on the way home.

"That's one hell of a Russian intelligence coup: They got the President of the United States to cover for their own interference in our election. I would submit to you that in the entire length of the Cold War, the Soviet Union had no such success."

Last edited by JohnT; 01-24-2020 at 03:19 PM.
  #286  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:21 PM
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NETA: I deliberately omitted Susan Collins from the tiny list of GOP Senators who might show integrity and — coincidence! — clicked to Google News to find that the Hypocrite from Maine has just confirmed that she no longer even pretends to be a fan of Truth, Justice, or America. She's just a contemptible bag of pure partisanship like the rest of her ilk.

Almost the entire GOP is beyond redemption.
The rules of the Senate ban rudeness (apparently).

If she's a stickler for the rules, that's to the favor of people who want the law to win.
  #287  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:46 PM
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I too enjoy inviting people that I don't know over to dinner and order those strangers to fire my employees.

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...novitch-ouster

Last edited by Sage Rat; 01-24-2020 at 03:46 PM.
  #288  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:59 PM
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I'd do it more often but I keep running out of employees!
  #289  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:59 PM
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There is also the view that they are bringing reality, that they are behaving in a righteous manner, regardless of the fronting and fixing the other side wants to engage in.
Well, yes, they are undoubtedly doing that, but I just meant in terms of what they can gain/use from the trial going forward until the election.
  #290  
Old 01-24-2020, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
I too enjoy inviting people that I don't know over to dinner and order those strangers to fire my employees.

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...novitch-ouster
Trump has known Lev Parnas for many years. So he was hardly imposing on a stranger to do his dirty work.
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  #291  
Old 01-24-2020, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
Trump has known Lev Parnas for many years. So he was hardly imposing on a stranger to do his dirty work.
I suspect that Sage Rat's use of "stranger" there was meant ironically.
  #292  
Old 01-24-2020, 05:00 PM
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Apologies if this has already been posted. Trump was apparently caught on tape saying this, in reference to Ambassador Yovanovitch:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Trump, via CNN
"Get rid of her!" a voice appearing to belong to Trump says on the recording, according to ABC News, which on Friday first reported its existence.
"Get her out tomorrow. I don't care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. OK? Do it."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/24/polit...dor/index.html

I have to say I'm only like 85% sure he was using the phrase "take her out" as a figure of speech meaning "fire her".
  #293  
Old 01-24-2020, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
Well, yes, they are undoubtedly doing that, but I just meant in terms of what they can gain/use from the trial going forward until the election.
The rest of my answer did address that.

Any savvy dem is not looking to the removal of dt as the goal right now. It's about the damage to the rebupkis. Removal may be impossible, but the opposition party is melting down intellectually, and ethically. Why should that not inform the dems agenda?

Last I looked it was two opposiong parties. If one of them is lame and failing in their jobs and flailing about in public, and they are my opposition, I'm looking for the death of that party. I hope that doesn't sound cruel. I don't mean to hurt Susan Collins feelings but we have to move on, preferably in a democracy.
  #294  
Old 01-24-2020, 05:09 PM
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I'm 99% sure that a man who was saying "take her out" to a gang of mobsters, to people who... at that table... could not possibly execute the President's orders through the system of government... did not mean "fire her".

"A recording reviewed by ABC News appears to capture President Donald Trump telling associates he wanted the then-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch fired while speaking at a small gathering that included Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman -- two former business associates of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani who have since been indicted in New York."

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/reco...ry?id=68506437
  #295  
Old 01-24-2020, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
I'm 99% sure that a man who was saying "take her out" to a gang of mobsters, to people who... at that table... could not possibly execute the President's orders through the system of government... did not mean "fire her".

"A recording reviewed by ABC News appears to capture President Donald Trump telling associates he wanted the then-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch fired while speaking at a small gathering that included Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman -- two former business associates of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani who have since been indicted in New York."

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/reco...ry?id=68506437
Yeah, I posted before I bothered to get the whole context. I'm pretty much with you now. And Parnas was in contact with that guy who claimed to have a connection in her security detail. And she was hastily recalled "for her safety".

So. Yeah. He wanted her killed.
  #296  
Old 01-24-2020, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
Roberts has listened (on the 21st) to members of Trump's defense team speaking outright lies.

https://www.thenation.com/article/ci...eachment-lies/

In addition to the blatant lying, Roberts is also witnessing the Senators' contempt for the 'stay silent' instructions read out by the Sergeant at Arms each day. (They may not be gabbing in the chamber, but they're gabbing plenty outside, including giving FoxNews interviews.) Plus he gets to watch them get up and leave, or if seated, play with fidget spinners or work crossword puzzles.

So I'm guessing that Roberts is not so much bored, as he is disgusted. Imagine anyone conducting themselves this way in a Supreme Court oral-argument session!
Fuck him. I hope he's finally realizing that he is now, and always has been, nothing more than a tool for these horrible people to help them get their way. I hope he sees the lie that his life has been, and how he's been, and still is, completely complicit with everything that is happening. I hope he sees himself as part of the problem; if he does, there's still hope for him.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 01-24-2020 at 05:24 PM.
  #297  
Old 01-24-2020, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Defensive Indifference View Post
Yeah, I posted before I bothered to get the whole context. I'm pretty much with you now. And Parnas was in contact with that guy who claimed to have a connection in her security detail. And she was hastily recalled "for her safety".

So. Yeah. He wanted her killed.
At best it has "Won't no one rid me of this turbulent priest" feel, doesn't it?

(Shout out to kaylasdad99 who yelled at all of us once for getting the quote wrong. Sheesh! Ya happy? )

Last edited by JohnT; 01-24-2020 at 05:26 PM.
  #298  
Old 01-24-2020, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
I'm 99% sure that a man who was saying "take her out" to a gang of mobsters, to people who... at that table... could not possibly execute the President's orders through the system of government... did not mean "fire her".

"A recording reviewed by ABC News appears to capture President Donald Trump telling associates he wanted the then-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch fired while speaking at a small gathering that included Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman -- two former business associates of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani who have since been indicted in New York."

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/reco...ry?id=68506437

"Sources familiar with the recording said the recording was made during an intimate April 30, 2018..."

That's a full year before she was actually removed. Am I mistaken in the timing of the scheme starting in early 2019? Or did it go back even further?
  #299  
Old 01-24-2020, 06:19 PM
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Yes. And it definitely indicates it wasn't Trump who was convincing Parnas why Y. had to be removed... Parnas was convincing Trump.

Now why... and for whom... would Parnish want such a thing?

Last edited by JohnT; 01-24-2020 at 06:20 PM.
  #300  
Old 01-24-2020, 08:24 PM
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With all these Republican Senators wandering about, doing crossword puzzles, marathon eyeball rolling.....see any of them taking notes? Paying attention to a point they might like to sternly rebut?
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