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  #51  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Lance Turbo View Post
Did you read the first paragraph of the linked Yahoo article?
Yes, and it says Trump "seemed to know next to nothing about the events of Dec. 7, 1941...". But it offers no examples of why the authors think this. Maybe he didn't, but they haven't shown any actual evidence of that. I was truly interested in this, but didn't see anything at the Post article that was linked to either.

ETA: And for the record, when I asked "Did I miss that part" I meant it. Had a long day...

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 01-21-2020 at 01:39 PM.
  #52  
Old 01-21-2020, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Ann Hedonia:
“It’s just so unfair that US companies aren’t allowed to pay bribes to get business overseas” Trump says, according to the book. “We’re going to change that”.

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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
I find the wording of this very questionable. I don't doubt that Trump might want American companies to be able to bribe or illicit foreign officials, but I highly doubt he'd actually say things that bluntly. This whole sentence smacks of poorly-written projection by the book author. [snip]
from https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...a4e_story.html

In 2012 ... he gave an extended CNBC interview ranting that the FCPA is a “horrible law” and that “the world is laughing at us” for enforcing it.

“Every other country goes into these places, and they do what they have to do,” he complained. If American companies don’t offer bribes, too, he said, “you’ll do business nowhere.”
  #53  
Old 01-21-2020, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
Yes, and it says Trump "seemed to know next to nothing about the events of Dec. 7, 1941...". But it offers no examples of why the authors think this.
Did you read the second paragraph? Hint: it's an example of why the authors think this.
  #54  
Old 01-22-2020, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Lance Turbo View Post
Did you read the second paragraph? Hint: it's an example of why the authors think this.
This?

Quote:
"Hey, John, what's this all about?" Trump reportedly asked Kelly. "What's this a tour of?"
I will acknowledge this could be a hint, perhaps of the fact that Trump didn't know what the USS Arizona Memorial was a tribute to specifically. Or of something more, such as Trump not knowing

1. The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941
2. They destroyed huge quantities of ships and other military hardware
3. Two thousand four hundred people were killed in the attack
4. The attacked led directly to the US declaring war on Japan and Germany.

If the article could show that, they would definitely be on to something. But as it offers no specifics, I am inclined to believe that the article is bullshit.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 01-22-2020 at 02:16 PM.
  #55  
Old 01-22-2020, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Wallet View Post
Originally Posted by Ann Hedonia:
“It’s just so unfair that US companies aren’t allowed to pay bribes to get business overseas” Trump says, according to the book. “We’re going to change that”.



from https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...a4e_story.html

In 2012 ... he gave an extended CNBC interview ranting that the FCPA is a “horrible law” and that “the world is laughing at us” for enforcing it.

“Every other country goes into these places, and they do what they have to do,” he complained. If American companies don’t offer bribes, too, he said, “you’ll do business nowhere.”
OK, I stand corrected.
  #56  
Old 01-22-2020, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
I will acknowledge this could be a hint, perhaps of the fact that Trump didn't know what the USS Arizona Memorial was a tribute to specifically. Or of something more, such as Trump not knowing

1. The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941
2. They destroyed huge quantities of ships and other military hardware
3. Two thousand four hundred people were killed in the attack
4. The attacked led directly to the US declaring war on Japan and Germany.

If the article could show that, they would definitely be on to something. But as it offers no specifics, I am inclined to believe that the article is bullshit.
According to the book, Kelly had to explain about the "stealth Japanese attack" and such.
  #57  
Old 01-22-2020, 04:35 PM
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If the article could show that, they would definitely be on to something. But as it offers no specifics, I am inclined to believe that the article is bullshit.
If you don't accept Trump asking, "Hey, John, what's this all about?" to be an example of Trump not knowing what something was about, I don't know what to tell you. It is so extremely straightforward that I'm honestly curious how it is possible to see it differently.
  #58  
Old 01-22-2020, 04:45 PM
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That link shows that my supposition that when Trump asked "what's this all about?", it was when he first arrived at the "stark white memorial", and that's what he was referring to, not the actual attack. But then it goes on to say that Kelly had to explain to him about Pearl Harbor. But again, no real details. And without going into too much detail about this relatively unimportant subject, what does "appeared to understand that he was visiting the scene of a historic battle" even mean? Did he start making fake "hand pistols" and with accompanying shooting noises? And "he did not seem to know much else." Seem? Well, did he or didn't he? Wishy-washy words like "seem" rarely help to convince me of something.

In any case, after reading this I am a bit more inclined to believe that Trump knew next to nothing about what happened at Pearl Harbor. Far from convinced, but it wouldn't surprise me. Wait, I take that back, it would surprise me. Even after the last three years. What American of his age doesn't know about Pearl Harbor?!
  #59  
Old 01-22-2020, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Lance Turbo View Post
If you don't accept Trump asking, "Hey, John, what's this all about?" to be an example of Trump not knowing what something was about, I don't know what to tell you. It is so extremely straightforward that I'm honestly curious how it is possible to see it differently.
In post #54, I address this directly.

ETA: "...perhaps of the fact that Trump didn't know what the USS Arizona Memorial was a tribute to specifically..."

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 01-22-2020 at 04:50 PM.
  #60  
Old 01-22-2020, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
That link shows that my supposition that when Trump asked "what's this all about?", it was when he first arrived at the "stark white memorial", and that's what he was referring to, not the actual attack. But then it goes on to say that Kelly had to explain to him about Pearl Harbor. But again, no real details. And without going into too much detail about this relatively unimportant subject, what does "appeared to understand that he was visiting the scene of a historic battle" even mean? Did he start making fake "hand pistols" and with accompanying shooting noises? And "he did not seem to know much else." Seem? Well, did he or didn't he? Wishy-washy words like "seem" rarely help to convince me of something.

In any case, after reading this I am a bit more inclined to believe that Trump knew next to nothing about what happened at Pearl Harbor. Far from convinced, but it wouldn't surprise me. Wait, I take that back, it would surprise me. Even after the last three years. What American of his age doesn't know about Pearl Harbor?!
Keep going...
  #61  
Old 01-22-2020, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
In post #54, I address this directly.

ETA: "...perhaps of the fact that Trump didn't know what the USS Arizona Memorial was a tribute to specifically..."

You asked for an example, and it is, indeed, an example of the thing you asked for an example of.

"Hey, John, what's this all about?" is extremely straightforwardly an example of Trump not knowing what something was about.

Speculation about alternative meanings of this question do not make this something other than an example.

It's not proof, it's not the incontrovertible word of God, but it is unquestionably an example.
  #62  
Old 01-22-2020, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Lance Turbo View Post

..."Hey, John, what's this all about?" is extremely straightforwardly an example of Trump not knowing what something was about...
This is a question, and for something to be inferred from it, you have to know what "this" refers to. I have clearly stated that I think it could be about the memorial he was staring at as they approached it and he asked the question. I have also said it could be about Pearl Harbor in general. The question in and of itself is not an example of anything specific.
  #63  
Old 01-22-2020, 05:24 PM
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Just so you'll know, I'd really rather not. You don't seem to be interested in commenting on what I say, which is of course cool, but as for me, I've got nothing more to add in that case.
  #64  
Old 01-22-2020, 05:29 PM
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He read about Pearl Harbor in 2 Corinthians but forgot it.
Was it a Pearl Harbor of Great Price?
  #65  
Old 01-22-2020, 05:30 PM
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This is a question, and for something to be inferred from it, you have to know what "this" refers to. I have clearly stated that I think it could be about the memorial he was staring at as they approached it and he asked the question. I have also said it could be about Pearl Harbor in general. The question in and of itself is not an example of anything specific.
And the letters that make up the words in that question only ask that question when arranged in that order. In other orders they don't form words at all.

Last edited by Lance Turbo; 01-22-2020 at 05:30 PM.
  #66  
Old 01-22-2020, 05:46 PM
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I certainly don't think Bush Sr. was dumb , agree it was just a slip up.

BTW he came very close to being captured by the Japanese in WW 2. And if he was captured he probably would have ended up on an island where many POWs were killed. And some of them were eaten.
It would have been more efficient that way, but eventually the world got some pieces of shit that owed their existence to GHWB...
  #67  
Old 01-22-2020, 05:48 PM
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This is a question, and for something to be inferred from it, you have to know what "this" refers to. I have clearly stated that I think it could be about the memorial he was staring at as they approached it and he asked the question. I have also said it could be about Pearl Harbor in general. The question in and of itself is not an example of anything specific.
This is all in the three links I've provided, which you have indicated zero interest in reading beyond the first. I wonder why.
  #68  
Old 01-22-2020, 06:02 PM
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In the appendix of the book they include a handwritten, signed, and notarized list titled Things Donald Trump Knows Nothing About by Donald Trump. It includes an entry for Pearl Harbor, but it's possible that that's a misspelling of Pocatello, Idaho so we may never be able to get to the bottom of this.
  #69  
Old 01-22-2020, 11:36 PM
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I get the same sort of training (and it doesn't matter for my job, either), but my takeaway is that it is never, ever acceptable even if the culture you're doing business in "expects it". No bribes, baksheesh, expensive gifts, ins with politicians, dinners out, red carpet premieres, tickets to sold-out plays, lagniappe, nothing. Ever.
Going by that list, the US is one of the most corrupt countries on earth. Many of those things are so routine in this country that hardly anybody would think to raise an eyebrow.
  #70  
Old 01-23-2020, 09:15 AM
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This is all in the three links I've provided, which you have indicated zero interest in reading beyond the first. I wonder why.
I assure you I have read all the paragraphs that mention Pearl Harbor specifically at the links you provided, and the surrounding paragraphs. Please just tell me what I have missed. I can't mind read. And there is no need to start down some sort of "ulterior motive" road (see bold) that people usually do whenever I mention something that doesn't criticize Trump, or I don't immediately accept something unflattering said about him. I just didn't think the Yahoo link showed what is was purported to show.

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Originally Posted by Lance Turbo View Post
In the appendix of the book they include a handwritten, signed, and notarized list titled Things Donald Trump Knows Nothing About by Donald Trump. It includes an entry for Pearl Harbor, but it's possible that that's a misspelling of Pocatello, Idaho so we may never be able to get to the bottom of this.
Why be snide? But fine, I take you at your word. Show me what you are talking about in the book. I am always interested in listening to other points of view.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 01-23-2020 at 09:18 AM.
  #71  
Old 01-23-2020, 09:45 AM
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It's pretty obvious that DJT doesn't know much about anything so why somebody would come on the board to suggest that what he said isn't really an indictment of his lack of knowledge is beyond me. Reminds me of a very good friend of mine - he's very bright (he's a mechanical engineer) but he does this thing in the face of information such as this to seemingly "detach" himself from it all so that he can look as though he's "above the fray." Extremely annoying to someone like me who is MUCH more willing to "call a spade a spade."
  #72  
Old 01-23-2020, 10:04 AM
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I assure you I have read all the paragraphs that mention Pearl Harbor specifically at the links you provided, and the surrounding paragraphs. Please just tell me what I have missed. I can't mind read. And there is no need to start down some sort of "ulterior motive" road (see bold) that people usually do whenever I mention something that doesn't criticize Trump, or I don't immediately accept something unflattering said about him. I just didn't think the Yahoo link showed what is was purported to show.



Why be snide? But fine, I take you at your word. Show me what you are talking about in the book. I am always interested in listening to other points of view.
Emphasis above mine. He may have simply been having a 'Senior Moment'. Nothing to do about Pearl or the Arizona memorial specifically, but basically wondering where he was and what he was doing there.
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  #73  
Old 01-23-2020, 11:19 AM
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From a Wednesday morning CNBC interview:
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Originally Posted by Trump
“We have to protect Thomas Edison—we have to protect all of these people that came up with originally the light bulb, and the wheel, and all of these things, and he’s one of our very smart people,” Trump added. “We want to cherish those people. That’s very important. He’s done a very good job.”
  #74  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:00 PM
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From a Wednesday morning CNBC interview:
Oh, good grief. Is gonna start praising Thomas Crapper next???

Light bulbs, toilets, dishwashers, wind turbines.....
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Old 01-23-2020, 12:03 PM
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Someone is threatening Edison? We have got to put a stop to that!
And could someone tell me which American invented the wheel?
  #76  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:12 PM
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Someone is threatening Edison? We have got to put a stop to that!
And could someone tell me which American invented the wheel?
Someone do a quick calculation to see if the patent protection term has expired yet for the wheel!
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  #77  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:18 PM
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Too late. Disney's got it.
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Old 01-23-2020, 12:34 PM
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The way it is phrased, he not only believes that Thomas Edison is still alive-he also believes that Edison invented the wheel.
  #79  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:53 PM
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It's pretty obvious that DJT doesn't know much about anything so why somebody would come on the board to suggest that what he said isn't really an indictment of his lack of knowledge is beyond me....
Yeah, I can see where that might be annoying. As opposed to what I said, which was that the Yahoo link did not mention any specifics about what Trump did or did not know about Pearl Harbor, thus I wasn't convinced of anything by that link.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 01-23-2020 at 12:58 PM. Reason: typo
  #80  
Old 01-23-2020, 01:11 PM
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Reading these links, I think what makes the moment noteworthy is that John Kelly (who presumably relayed the story) was dumbfounded by the question, clearly reflecting that he thought Trump was admitting to woeful ignorance.

And I get it. Trump's knowledge and understanding of one of the most pivotal moments in American history (one which Kelly probably knew intimate details of) likely consisted of, at most, "the Japanese attacked America in WWII" and literally nothing else. Moreover, the dismissive "what's this all about" in the presence of such a serene memorial probably struck Kelly as outrageous, since Kelly was well aware of the significance of the dead bodies still interred below. To Kelly, this was about paying respects; to Trump, it was about some distraction while they refueled their jet.

If nothing else, it plainly diminished Trump in the eyes of his general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trump
“We have to protect Thomas Edison—we have to protect all of these people that came up with originally the light bulb, and the wheel, and all of these things, and he’s one of our very smart people,” Trump added. “We want to cherish those people. That’s very important. He’s done a very good job.”
In context, Trump was talking about protecting intellectual property, and specifically Elon Musk, not Thomas Edison. So the 'he's one of our very smart people' and "he's done a very good job' was about Elon. But, in attempting to list 'other' Americans who also need to have their ideas protected, the only name Trump could come up with was Edison, and in listing other ideas that need protecting, the only other inventions Trump could think of were the lightbulb and wheel.

Last edited by Moriarty; 01-23-2020 at 01:13 PM.
  #81  
Old 01-23-2020, 01:25 PM
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Reading these links, I think what makes the moment noteworthy is that John Kelly (who presumably relayed the story) was dumbfounded by the question, clearly reflecting that he thought Trump was admitting to woeful ignorance.
Sounds reasonable to me.

Quote:
And I get it. Trump's knowledge and understanding of one of the most pivotal moments in American history (one which Kelly probably knew intimate details of) likely consisted of, at most, "the Japanese attacked America in WWII" and literally nothing else.
As to the bold part, I've said here that Trump might indeed know little about Pearl Harbor. I would not be willing to say that it's likely that he knows next to nothing, as I really have no idea, but I also wouldn't rule it out.
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Old 01-23-2020, 01:55 PM
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[...] but I also wouldn't rule it out.
On brand.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:28 PM
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Yeah, I can see where that might be annoying. As opposed to what I said, which was that the Yahoo link did not mention any specifics about what Trump did or did not know about Pearl Harbor, thus I wasn't convinced of anything by that link.
Yeah, but so what? You're focused on the "shabby journalism" instead of taking the larger point which is that DJT is an idiot. No amount of "shabby journalism" is EVER going to change that.
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Old 01-24-2020, 10:14 AM
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Yeah, but so what? You're focused on the "shabby journalism" instead of taking the larger point which is that DJT is an idiot. No amount of "shabby journalism" is EVER going to change that.
You are correct. In fact, that is the main reason I made my original post, even though I didn't mention it specifically. To call anything at that Yahoo link "journalism" is an insult to the word. I've said more than a few times that no one needs to gin up phony, unsupported accusations against Trump such as the Pearl Harbor nonsense when he has done so many obvious things that more than adequately demonstrate his unquestionable idiocy.

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  #85  
Old 01-24-2020, 04:07 PM
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You are correct. In fact, that is the main reason I made my original post, even though I didn't mention it specifically. To call anything at that Yahoo link "journalism" is an insult to the word. I've said more than a few times that no one needs to gin up phony, unsupported accusations against Trump such as the Pearl Harbor nonsense when he has done so many obvious things that more than adequately demonstrate his unquestionable idiocy.
It is not a phony, unsupported accusation.

In this thread there are links to the actual page of the book where...
  1. It is stated that Trump is ignorant of Pearl Harbor.
  2. An example demonstrating this is provided.
  3. John Kelly's reaction to this example is described.
  4. And the steps John Kelly took to rectify things are described.

You're not convinced by this. Great. We get it.

That doesn't magically make it phony or unsupported.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:20 PM
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It is not a phony, unsupported accusation.

In this thread there are links to the actual page of the book where...
  1. It is stated that Trump is ignorant of Pearl Harbor.
  2. An example demonstrating this is provided.
  3. John Kelly's reaction to this example is described.
  4. And the steps John Kelly took to rectify things are described.

You're not convinced by this. Great. We get it.

That doesn't magically make it phony or unsupported.
Same sort of thing over here: 1 + 1 = math is hard!
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Lance Turbo View Post
It is not a phony, unsupported accusation.

In this thread there are links to the actual page of the book where...
  1. It is stated that Trump is ignorant of Pearl Harbor.
  2. An example demonstrating this is provided.
  3. John Kelly's reaction to this example is described.
  4. And the steps John Kelly took to rectify things are described.

You're not convinced by this. Great. We get it.

That doesn't magically make it phony or unsupported.
Agreed. I withdraw "phony" and "unsupported." I stand by the rest.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:55 PM
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Same sort of thing over here: 1 + 1 = math is hard!
Again, you provided a link where you said a Trump campaign official was making smears. I said there were no smears at that link, only legitimate political tactics. And that is the case. You were wrong. Now, I could make a snide comment such as, reading comprehension is hard! but I will refrain from doing so. I prefer to respectfully, and with evidence, back up what I say.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 01-24-2020 at 04:57 PM. Reason: typo
  #89  
Old 01-24-2020, 05:21 PM
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Again, you provided a link where you said a Trump campaign official was making smears.
I also provided a second link which says Trump's campaign strategy against Hillary was smears.

Sorry that I cannot do your thinking for you.
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Old 01-24-2020, 06:38 PM
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I also provided a second link which says Trump's campaign strategy against Hillary was smears.

Sorry that I cannot do your thinking for you.
Come on, Sky. I was only commenting on the specific link you gave. You can't just go back and bring up something that I didn't address directly.

But let me ask you this, because maybe we just have a different definition of "smear". To me, things like "low energy Jeb", "Sleepy Joe", and "Pocahontas" aren't smears, they are childish insults and name calling. To me a smear is what I think is the classic meaning of the word is: an attempt to damage the reputation of someone by accusing them of crimes or immoral behavior, when there is no evidence of such things. This is the context of what I commented on.

As for Hillary, without going back to your post which I don't remember, yes, Trump tried to smear her during the election. On that we certainly agree.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 01-24-2020 at 06:39 PM.
  #91  
Old 01-26-2020, 09:58 AM
Bijou Drains is offline
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Trump probably not aware what he had for lunch yesterday.
  #92  
Old 01-29-2020, 02:57 AM
RioRico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
Trump probably not aware what he had for lunch yesterday.
I tend to forget stuff like that, too, and I'm not even as old as DJT.

Calling DJT an idiot sounds like Saddam and Hitler being dismissed as madmen. Morons and lunatics don't hold power for long. DJT is obviously [insert epithets here] but a cretin he ain't. Do not underestimate - that's a losing game.
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