Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-21-2020, 11:30 AM
dalej42 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 15,709

Hillary tells it like it is about Bernie and his bros


Thank you, Hillary Clinton!
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/21/polit...ary/index.html

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fe...bernie-1271551

‘No one likes him’ is just one of the many truisms that Hillary mentions. And, she calls out his staff and supporters as well for their toxic behavior. And I love it that supporters of all the other candidates are helping this go viral on social media. We’re all fed up with the toxic bros and fighting back now.

I only wish Hillary has done this in 2016 rather than the kid gloves approach. But, at least, she can damage Sanders now, two weeks before Iowa. I’m well aware she’s not flipping any hard core Bernie Bros, but hopefully she can get some fence sitters to Warren. Elizabeth Warren is a deeply flawed candidate who has run an awful campaign, but she’s a quadrillion times better on her worst day than Sanders is on his best.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His

Last edited by dalej42; 01-21-2020 at 11:31 AM.
  #2  
Old 01-21-2020, 11:42 AM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 36,813
It's hard to imagine anything Hillary Clinton could do that would be more beneficial to Bernie than this. If this is her goal, then well done in assisting Bernie! If not, then it just reinforces my suspicion that Hillary Clinton is pretty bad at presidential electoral politics.
  #3  
Old 01-21-2020, 11:48 AM
Bijou Drains is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 10,725
I guess that means she is not running again.
  #4  
Old 01-21-2020, 11:50 AM
What Exit?'s Avatar
What Exit? is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central NJ (near Bree)
Posts: 29,937
You know, after successfully losing to a freak show like Trump, how is her whining of any value? Hillary is the reason why Hillary lost. You know, that whole ran a bad campaign thing. She should shut up and fade away now.

Oh, and I voted for Hillary last time of course, because you know, she still wasn't Trump.
  #5  
Old 01-21-2020, 11:52 AM
MyFootsZZZ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
It's hard to imagine anything Hillary Clinton could do that would be more beneficial to Bernie than this. If this is her goal, then well done in assisting Bernie! If not, then it just reinforces my suspicion that Hillary Clinton is pretty bad at presidential electoral politics.
I agree.


Man... The media and the establishment candidates really don't want Bernie. The more they call him sexist and racist the more people roll their eyes and want to vote for him more.
  #6  
Old 01-21-2020, 11:57 AM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 36,813
From the perspective of a Bernie supporter (though I also like a handful of the other candidates), hopefully she will keep this kind of thing up and go on national TV, again and again, attacking Bernie.
  #7  
Old 01-21-2020, 11:59 AM
What Exit?'s Avatar
What Exit? is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central NJ (near Bree)
Posts: 29,937
If Sanders somehow gets the nomination, all Dems need to fall in behind him. Same for any other candidate that gets the nom of course. He is a far better choice than Trump, I hope we can at least agree on that.
  #8  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:01 PM
Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 84,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
You know, after successfully losing to a freak show like Trump, how is her whining of any value? Hillary is the reason why Hillary lost. You know, that whole ran a bad campaign thing. She should shut up and fade away now.

Oh, and I voted for Hillary last time of course, because you know, she still wasn't Trump.
And Bernie is the reason Bernie lost. He ran a worse campaign than Clinton did.

It's a two-way street. Sanders supporters complain at least as much about how Clinton took their victory away as Clinton supporters complain about how Sanders took theirs.
  #9  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:02 PM
MyFootsZZZ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
From the perspective of a Bernie supporter (though I also like a handful of the other candidates), hopefully she will keep this kind of thing up and go on national TV, again and again, attacking Bernie.
You know, iiandyiiii, I like your style. 🙂
  #10  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:03 PM
Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 84,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
If Sanders somehow gets the nomination, all Dems need to fall in behind him. Same for any other candidate that gets the nom of course. He is a far better choice than Trump, I hope we can at least agree on that.
I completely agree. But I'm hoping that if Sanders doesn't get the nomination, his supporters will fall in behind whoever does.

Worst case scenario is we end up with a "Sanders is my first choice. Trump is my second choice." movement.
  #11  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:05 PM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 19,323
Nothing more amusing than the reliable reply of "this criticism HELPS!" No, it doesn't. At most, it'll be nothing but it's pretty silly to think this will somehow swing votes to Bernie.
  #12  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:08 PM
MyFootsZZZ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,872
If people keep patronizing the Bernie supporters...

It's so crazy how much you think that we are involved with Trump's nonsense.

Remember when Clinton thanked Bernie for all the campaigning he did on her behalf? Now it's wasn't enough!?

If they hated Bernie so much why didn't they say so in the beginning of all of this. They're getting desperate. It's so transparent and counterproductive.

Last edited by MyFootsZZZ; 01-21-2020 at 12:08 PM.
  #13  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:08 PM
Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 84,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFootsZZZ View Post
The more they call him sexist and racist the more people roll their eyes and want to vote for him more.
I think this is a bad strategy. The people who will vote for a candidate because he's been accused on sexism and racism already have a dog in this fight. We need a candidate for the voters who are opposed to sexism and racism.
  #14  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:10 PM
QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 20,334
Hasn't she embarrassed herself enough? What's she angling at with this? A VP consolation prize from whoever ends up beating Bernie to the nomination?
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #15  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:12 PM
RTFirefly is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 40,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
If Sanders somehow gets the nomination, all Dems need to fall in behind him. Same for any other candidate that gets the nom of course. He is a far better choice than Trump, I hope we can at least agree on that.
Hell yeah, but the issue isn't people like us. It's less politically involved people who aren't gonna vote for Trump, but don't really believe the Dems will do much for them either. They'll vote Dem if they vote, but plenty of them won't bother.
  #16  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:12 PM
MyFootsZZZ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I think this is a bad strategy. The people who will vote for a candidate because he's been accused on sexism and racism already have a dog in this fight. We need a candidate for the voters who are opposed to sexism and racism.
And Bernie isn't sexist or racist.
  #17  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:13 PM
Bijou Drains is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 10,725
If Sanders runs vs. Trump voters will end up believing Bernie wrote the communist manifesto
  #18  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:14 PM
What Exit?'s Avatar
What Exit? is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central NJ (near Bree)
Posts: 29,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
And Bernie is the reason Bernie lost. He ran a worse campaign than Clinton did.

It's a two-way street. Sanders supporters complain at least as much about how Clinton took their victory away as Clinton supporters complain about how Sanders took theirs.
Bernie never had a prayer at the nomination in 2016. It is amazing to me he did as well as he did.

Do Bernie folks complain that Hillary took Bernie's victory? I've never heard it in person, where I have heard from a lot of ardent Hillary supporters about how Bernie ruined her chances.

Again, I am not a Bernie only person. I thought Hillary was a decent choice for President but a terrible campaigner. I also think picking a nobody for VP was a big mistake. If not Bernie, she should have picked a progressive at a least or someone else that would've played well to the rust belt.
  #19  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:14 PM
jasg is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Upper left hand corner
Posts: 6,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
If Sanders somehow gets the nomination, all Dems need to fall in behind him. Same for any other candidate that gets the nom of course. He is a far better choice than Trump, I hope we can at least agree on that.
I am disturbed by the fact that Trump and many conservative pundits and strategists seem to want Sanders to get the nomination.
  #20  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:15 PM
Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 84,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFootsZZZ View Post
If they hated Bernie so much why didn't they say so in the beginning of all of this. They're getting desperate. It's so transparent and counterproductive.
We don't hate Sanders. We may prefer a different candidate but that doesn't mean we won't accept Sanders if he wins the nomination. We will support Sanders and vote for him even if he isn't our first choice.

What we're worried about is the possibility that Sanders supporters don't feel the same way. That if they don't get Sanders they won't support any other Democrat.
  #21  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:16 PM
MyFootsZZZ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Hell yeah, but the issue isn't people like us. It's less politically involved people who aren't gonna vote for Trump, but don't really believe the Dems will do much for them either. They'll vote Dem if they vote, but plenty of them won't bother.
If they feel cheated, maybe.

If this was a FAIR fight and Biden or whoever won fair, and won on their own merits, the 'Bernie Bros" might be more inclined to vote.

If you make it seem like their vote doesn't matter then they might not.
  #22  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:19 PM
Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 84,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFootsZZZ View Post
And Bernie isn't sexist or racist.
Your post isn't helping to refute the accusations.
  #23  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:19 PM
MyFootsZZZ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
We don't hate Sanders. We may prefer a different candidate but that doesn't mean we won't accept Sanders if he wins the nomination. We will support Sanders and vote for him even if he isn't our first choice.

What we're worried about is the possibility that Sanders supporters don't feel the same way. That if they don't get Sanders they won't support any other Democrat.
I addressed this in my last post. Just read that. Bernie supporters were fine until all this crap was slung against him.

I voted Hillary... We're not all monoliths voters. Yes some people might have not voted for Hillary but I did.

Hillary saying that she might not support Bernie now if he were to become candidate. What's that shit?
  #24  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:20 PM
MyFootsZZZ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
Your post isn't helping to refute the accusations.
I don't need to refute those accusations, go look up old videos of him talking about women being president. And being black in America. Don't be silly.
  #25  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:21 PM
What Exit?'s Avatar
What Exit? is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central NJ (near Bree)
Posts: 29,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Hell yeah, but the issue isn't people like us. It's less politically involved people who aren't gonna vote for Trump, but don't really believe the Dems will do much for them either. They'll vote Dem if they vote, but plenty of them won't bother.
Actually both Biden & Sanders should do much better than Hillary in the rust belt. So they both have a good chance of beating Trump. I think Warren is less likely to improve much in the rust belt.

Buttigieg you would think would do OK in the rust belt but there seems to be a lot of polls showing him doing poorly with African-Americans, not that they'll vote Trump, just that they won't show up to vote in the same numbers as they would for others and especially Biden. Sanders is polling really well with young voters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasg View Post
I am disturbed by the fact that Trump and many conservative pundits and strategists seem to want Sanders to get the nomination.
Seemed like the Republicans loved the idea of getting Hillary last time too. So hard to say.
  #26  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:21 PM
Buck Godot's Avatar
Buck Godot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: MD outside DC
Posts: 6,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
It's hard to imagine anything Hillary Clinton could do that would be more beneficial to Bernie than this. If this is her goal, then well done in assisting Bernie! If not, then it just reinforces my suspicion that Hillary Clinton is pretty bad at presidential electoral politics.
The people who would view this rejection of Bernie as a plus are the already probably voting for him, so I think it will mostly be a wash as far as the primary goes. The problem is that this reinforces the persecution complex exhibited by many of his supporters, making it more likely that they will decide to take their ball and go home when he loses the primary resulting in 4 more years of Trump.

I have the greatest respect for Hillary, I voted for her in 2008 and 2016. If she didn't have all the baggage heaped on her from 27 years of Republican mud slinging I would prefer her to any of the current crop of Democratic candidates. But now that she's lost, she seriously needs to fade gracefully into the background and take up oil water color painting or something.
  #27  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:22 PM
RTFirefly is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 40,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFootsZZZ View Post
If people keep patronizing the Bernie supporters...

It's so crazy how much you think that we are involved with Trump's nonsense.

Remember when Clinton thanked Bernie for all the campaigning he did on her behalf? Now it's wasn't enough!?
I remember Bernie taking for-fucking-ever to end his campaign and endorse Hillary, long after Hillary had clinched the nomination.

Yes, I'm still bitter.
Quote:
If they hated Bernie so much why didn't they say so in the beginning of all of this. They're getting desperate. It's so transparent and counterproductive.
Because they thought Bernie was yesterday's news and Warren was the real threat, so they threw shit at her first.
  #28  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:22 PM
MyFootsZZZ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,872
Btw... Liz Warren is still my second choice.
  #29  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:23 PM
MyFootsZZZ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
I remember Bernie taking for-fucking-ever to end his campaign and endorse Hillary, long after Hillary had clinched the nomination.

Yes, I'm still bitter.
Because they thought Bernie was yesterday's news and Warren was the real threat, so they threw shit at her first.
They probably shouldn't be throwing shit.
  #30  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:24 PM
What Exit?'s Avatar
What Exit? is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central NJ (near Bree)
Posts: 29,937
In the end, Biden probably has the easiest path to being President. He probably should have run last time in fact. I'm not a fan, but he has a really good chance of beating Trump. Sanders has some issues that could hurt and he has the second best chance of beating Trump today at least.

So as the nomination will probably be decided before the New Jersey Primary, I'll put out signs and campaign for whoever gets the nom as decided by other states.
  #31  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:28 PM
RTFirefly is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 40,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFootsZZZ View Post
Btw... Liz Warren is still my second choice.
My second choice seems to change from day to day. Maryland's primary isn't until April 28, so it's not like I expect it to matter.

If we get past Super Tuesday and the situation is still fluid, well, I'll deal with it then.
  #32  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:28 PM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 19,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFootsZZZ View Post
They probably shouldn't be throwing shit.
This is coming from your years of experience as a campaign manager? "Never insult your opponent " is your professional moto?
  #33  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:30 PM
MyFootsZZZ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,872
I don't know. I don't mind too much if I someone else wins I just want Trump out.


as soon as people start attacking Bernie and his supporters they're going to get defensive because Bernie is quite honestly a great candidate.

"Bernie Bros" is offensive to women as if they don't have their own agency... and simply can't like Bernie on their own.

I'm sick of people reducing us to Trump supporter like levels, their racist and sexist and we are not.

Stop patronizing us. Stop dismissing us. And stop talking down to us. You'll find where much nicer when you're nicer to us.
  #34  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:31 PM
MyFootsZZZ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
This is coming from your years of experience as a campaign manager? "Never insult your opponent " is your professional moto?
I think things were going well until s*** started going down. When has Sanders PURPOSLEY thrown s***?

When he said I'm sick of the damn emails?

Last edited by MyFootsZZZ; 01-21-2020 at 12:32 PM.
  #35  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:31 PM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 17,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
You know, after successfully losing to a freak show like Trump....
She didn't lose. Three million more people voted for her than for fuckface. She was more popular than fuckface in the election. She got more votes than he did in the election. She lost the presidency but not the election.
  #36  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:35 PM
What Exit?'s Avatar
What Exit? is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central NJ (near Bree)
Posts: 29,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
She didn't lose. Three million more people voted for her than for fuckface. She was more popular than fuckface in the election. She got more votes than he did in the election. She lost the presidency but not the election.
She lost, she lost as she lost states that she should have won. The goddamn electoral college is what mattered and she did not win it. She lost it more than Gore lost it. There is no reason to bother raising it in a thread like this. Save it for crazy Trump supporters that want to pretend he won the popular vote.

I hate the electoral college, I hate that a Wyoming vote is worth something like 7 New Jersey votes. It is a fucked up system where rural states are already over-powered via Congress. We should have a popular vote, but we don't.
  #37  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:36 PM
steronz is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oh-hiya-Maude
Posts: 5,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
And Bernie is the reason Bernie lost. He ran a worse campaign than Clinton did.
Sometimes it feels like they ran two different races. Clinton ran a spectacular campaign for the DNC nomination, in that she realized early on all of the checkboxes she'd need to tick (senate, SoS) and got the DNC on her side early. Bernie's plan of not really being a Democrat and openly mocking the Democratic establishment was indeed a pretty poor strategy in retrospect.

I find it unsurprising that the same Clinton who tried to lock up the nomination before the primary even started and then got mad at Bernie for not falling in line with the DNC's non-democratic decision continues to badmouth Bernie. Truly unsurprising.

Last edited by steronz; 01-21-2020 at 12:37 PM.
  #38  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:36 PM
Unreconstructed Man is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 546
“Nobody likes Bernie” said the woman who lost a popularity contest to Donald Trump

Attn. Hillary,

You are a loathsome Wall Street Reptile who never met a war you didn’t like. Fuck off back into the woods with your rapey husband and never, ever come back.

Thanks
  #39  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:38 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 36,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
Nothing more amusing than the reliable reply of "this criticism HELPS!" No, it doesn't. At most, it'll be nothing but it's pretty silly to think this will somehow swing votes to Bernie.
I think this is normally accurate, but in this specific case I think a very significant chunk of Bernie supporters (and potential Bernie supporters) are fueled by a hatred of Hillary Clinton and the political establishment in general. If that's true, and if that chunk is more significant than Bernie supporters (and potential Bernie supporters) who really like and value Hillary's opinion (as I think it is), then I think this kind of criticism from Hillary is a net positive for Bernie.

But this is all just, essentially, political gossiping. Who the hell knows? I'm guessing, based on my priors. Stuff like this is nearly impossible to predict with anything approaching certainty. Kind of like arguing which team will win a given football game. It's barely more than a wild guess.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 01-21-2020 at 12:40 PM.
  #40  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:45 PM
shunpiker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Central North Carolina
Posts: 1,597
Ugh. Stories like this reveal how the Democrats don’t really give a damn about the wellness of our country. They’re selfishly concerned for their own money and prestige. The only thing the D candidates should be saying about one another is (some version of); “While I have a much better plan and would be a much better president than anyone else, my (Democratic) opponent –if elected- would also be a great representative and leader of our nation”.

Last edited by shunpiker; 01-21-2020 at 12:47 PM.
  #41  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:48 PM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 19,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
I think this is normally accurate, but in this specific case I think a very significant chunk of Bernie supporters (and potential Bernie supporters) are fueled by a hatred of Hillary Clinton and the political establishment in general. If that's true, and if that chunk is more significant than Bernie supporters (and potential Bernie supporters) who really like and value Hillary's opinion (as I think it is), then I think this kind of criticism from Hillary is a net positive for Bernie.

But this is all just, essentially, political gossiping. Who the hell knows? I'm guessing, based on my priors. Stuff like this is nearly impossible to predict with anything approaching certainty. Kind of like arguing which team will win a given football game. It's barely more than a wild guess.
No, quit pretending everything is meaningless and we're all just guessing. You are saying this stuff from Hillary helps Sanders, and your reasoning is that now Sanders supporters are REALLY going to be Sanders supporters, especially if they already don't like Clinton. Can you not see how silly and vapid that is?

Last edited by CarnalK; 01-21-2020 at 12:49 PM.
  #42  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:50 PM
MyFootsZZZ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,872
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...n-a-monumental


See. Classy.
  #43  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:52 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 36,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by shunpiker View Post
Ugh. Stories like this reveal how the Democrats don’t really give a damn about the wellness of our country. They’re selfishly concerned for their own money and prestige. The only thing the D candidates should be saying about one another is (some version of); “While I have a much better plan and would be a much better president than anyone else, my opponent –if elected- would also be a great representative and leader of our nation”.
The Democratic party is a pretty shitty organization -- pretty shitty for workers, pretty shitty for women (though at least there's been a bit of positive movement on this in recent years), pretty shitty for minorities, etc. It's only because the GOP is basically a rape-tolerant, pro-white-supremacism, pro-corruption, and pro-exploitation party that it becomes clear why it's so important for the future of the US to elect Democrats and not Republicans. The Democrats are mundanely bad -- bad in the way that most big organizations are bad (i.e. pushing the status quo, mainly concerned about money and power, etc.). The GOP is historically bad, perhaps only exceeded in badness by, in US history, the Confederates, as far as large national political organizations/movements.
  #44  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:56 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 36,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
No, quit pretending everything is meaningless and we're all just guessing. You are saying this stuff from Hillary helps Sanders, and your reasoning is that now Sanders supporters are REALLY going to be Sanders supporters, especially if they already don't like Clinton. Can you not see how silly and vapid that is?
That's not really what I'm saying. I'm saying that there are lot of potential Bernie voters out there, IMO, that could be motivated by hatred of Hillary and the political establishment to support Bernie (and the already-supporting-Bernie ones will be even more motivated to donate, volunteer, and vote). I don't know for sure, and this kind of discussion is no more than "opinion A based on feelings vs opinion B based on feelings". Which can be fun, and I don't have a problem with it.

But we can stop here -- you're already accusing me of being dishonest ("pretending") and this isn't the first time, IIRC, you've brought whatever weird problem you have with me into GD/Elections threads. I suggest you Pit me if you really want to discuss your problems with me as a poster.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 01-21-2020 at 12:56 PM.
  #45  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:56 PM
Wesley Clark is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 23,118
I'm a Bernie supporter and I vastly prefer Hillary when she is honest. Her statement that half of Trump's supporters are a basket of deplorables was spot on and totally true, but she walked it back for fear of criticism.

She makes a good point about Sanders not accomplishing much as a senator. But thats not why lots of us support him. We support him to move the overton window and show society and the political establishment that we want a meaningful progressive era to start. Bernie Sanders and AOC and the others are just the start, we're trying to build a progressive era that won't reach fruition until the 2030s or so. That would be like claiming movement conservatism was a failure because it hadn't accomplished anything by 1978. Of course it hadn't, it was just starting back then. Right now we're focusing on building a grassroots movement, empowering small donors to get involved in politics, primaries from the left, building coalitions and things like that. Its not going to happen overnight.

Also I'm not sure why she keeps implying its misogyny. The vast majority of Bernie primary voters (including myself) voted for Clinton in the general. Lots of us go back and forth between Bernie and Warren. I'd vastly prefer Warren over a third way male democrat for example.

Also the media lies about Hillary Clinton endlessly, do we even know if these accusations are true? I mean it seems to be true, but lots of us have seen the Clintons be lied about so much that we need verification on whether a criticism of them is true or not.
__________________
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to sparkle motion

Last edited by Wesley Clark; 01-21-2020 at 12:59 PM.
  #46  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:57 PM
dalej42 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 15,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Man View Post
“Nobody likes Bernie” said the woman who lost a popularity contest to Donald Trump

Attn. Hillary,

You are a loathsome Wall Street Reptile who never met a war you didn’t like. Fuck off back into the woods with your rapey husband and never, ever come back.

Thanks
Which third party are you going to throw your vote away on when Bernie gets his ass whipped in the primaries? There’s a lot fewer caucuses for him to pack his Bros with this time around.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #47  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:57 PM
Jophiel's Avatar
Jophiel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Chicago suburbia
Posts: 19,771
Quote:
Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
Do Bernie folks complain that Hillary took Bernie's victory? I've never heard it in person, where I have heard from a lot of ardent Hillary supporters about how Bernie ruined her chances.
It's been four years and the Bernie supporters I know are STILL convinced that it was some Clinton-DNC cabal that stole Sanders' certain primary victory. And won't shut up about it.
  #48  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:02 PM
dalej42 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 15,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
I'm a Bernie supporter and I vastly prefer Hillary when she is honest. Her statement that half of Trump's supporters are a basket of deplorables was spot on and totally true, but she walked it back for fear of criticism.

She makes a good point about Sanders not accomplishing much as a senator. But thats not why lots of us support him. We support him to move the overton window and show society and the political establishment that we want a meaningful progressive era to start. Bernie Sanders and AOC and the others are just the start, we're trying to build a progressive era that won't reach fruition until the 2030s or so. That would be like claiming movement conservatism was a failure because it hadn't accomplished anything by 1978. Of course it hadn't, it was just starting back then. Right now we're focusing on building a grassroots movement, empowering small donors to get involved in politics, primaries from the left, building coalitions and things like that. Its not going to happen overnight.

Also I'm not sure why she keeps implying its misogyny. The vast majority of Bernie primary voters (including myself) voted for Clinton in the general. Lots of us go back and forth between Bernie and Warren.

Also the media lies about Hillary Clinton endlessly, do we even know if these accusations are true? I mean it seems to be true, but lots of us have seen the Clintons be lied about so much that we need verification on whether a criticism of them is true or not.
I don’t give a damn about moving the fucking window, I want to win elections.

Bernie is a lying vile shitstain on American politics only slightly less toxic than Trump. One look at his 2020 campaign staff tell you all you need to know about Bernie.

AOC is a naive unfunny joke and thankfully her hype is diminishing which is why she keeps saying more outlandish garbage to get attention.

Warren is a deeply flawed candidate but at least she’s not as completely in fantasy land like Bernie.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #49  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:04 PM
steronz is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oh-hiya-Maude
Posts: 5,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
It's been four years and the Bernie supporters I know are STILL convinced that it was some Clinton-DNC cabal that stole Sanders' certain primary victory. And won't shut up about it.
Why were there only 6 people running for the Democratic nomination in 2016? And 4 years later, with Clinton not working in lockstep with the DNC, there are/were more than 2 dozen?

I don't think she stole anything from anyone, Bernie was always an outside chance, but something unusual happened that cycle.
  #50  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:06 PM
Fiddle Peghead's Avatar
Fiddle Peghead is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Harlem, New York, NY
Posts: 4,720
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
From the perspective of a Bernie supporter (though I also like a handful of the other candidates), hopefully she will keep this kind of thing up and go on national TV, again and again, attacking Bernie.
Hillary Clinton lost the last election, sure. But she got, what, 3 million more votes than Trump. I 'd say there are still plenty of people in this country that still like her and respect her opinions. If so, your premise here is could be dangerous to your hopes for Bernie in the coming election, and you might want to consider the old adage about getting what you ask for. Just sayin'.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:09 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017