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  #51  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:12 PM
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I donít give a damn about moving the fucking window, I want to win elections.

Bernie is a lying vile shitstain on American politics only slightly less toxic than Trump. One look at his 2020 campaign staff tell you all you need to know about Bernie.

AOC is a naive unfunny joke and thankfully her hype is diminishing which is why she keeps saying more outlandish garbage to get attention.

Warren is a deeply flawed candidate but at least sheís not as completely in fantasy land like Bernie.
Man, you're negative. Who do you actually support? Last I checked AOC is not running. Why bring her up? I'm not a huge fan of her, but what's wrong with a progressive young voice? We could probably use a lot more under 50 year olds in Congress.

Is it Biden you support at least? Someone with a really good chance to unseat Trump.
  #52  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:14 PM
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"Nobody likes Sanders"? Really? He sure got a heck of a lot of votes for someone "nobody likes". And if nobody really liked him, to whom is she directing these comments?

She's telling it like it isn't.
  #53  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:21 PM
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"Nobody likes Sanders"? Really? He sure got a heck of a lot of votes for someone "nobody likes". And if nobody really liked him, to whom is she directing these comments?

She's telling it like it isn't.
Yeah, that one threw me too. If nobody liked him, his poll numbers would be down there with guys like Bennet.

Also, at least according to the headlines I see, Hillary's not willing to say she'll vote for Bernie if he's the Dem nominee.

Sorry, Hillary, but if you want to even pretend to be one of the adults in the room on the Dem side, that's one of the most basic and minimal qualifiers. You support the Dem nominee against Trump, no matter who it is.
  #54  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:23 PM
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"Nobody likes Sanders"? Really? He sure got a heck of a lot of votes for someone "nobody likes". And if nobody really liked him, to whom is she directing these comments?

She's telling it like it isn't.
ĎNobody likes Sandersí is in my linked articles which refers to his colleagues in Congress. Itís stunning how little support Bernie has received from those who know him best. Heck even during Bernieís first couple of years in the House, Barney Frank pegged him as a useless windbag that was impossible to work with and refused to compromise. Acting like a spoiled toddler isnít good for useless back bench representative, much less a Senator and certainly not a President.
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  #55  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:24 PM
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Why were there only 6 people running for the Democratic nomination in 2016? And 4 years later, with Clinton not working in lockstep with the DNC, there are/were more than 2 dozen?
I don't think there's much mystery behind "Why did no one want to run against the obvious power candidate?" Or why, after seeing Trump win, everyone thinks "Hey, I can totally do that!" and jumps into the race (and Biden held off for a time before entering so his presence had less impact than Clinton's)
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"Nobody likes Sanders"? Really? He sure got a heck of a lot of votes for someone "nobody likes".
Her comments, in context, are clearly about his Congressional colleagues:
"He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done."

Last edited by Jophiel; 01-21-2020 at 01:27 PM.
  #56  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:25 PM
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Man, you're negative. Who do you actually support? Last I checked AOC is not running. Why bring her up? I'm not a huge fan of her, but what's wrong with a progressive young voice? We could probably use a lot more under 50 year olds in Congress.

Is it Biden you support at least? Someone with a really good chance to unseat Trump.
Buttigieg is my top candidate, Biden would be second. I liked Kamala and Booker as well. Sanders would be at the bottom, heís even worse than Tulsi.
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  #57  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:28 PM
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"Nobody likes Sanders"? Really? He sure got a heck of a lot of votes for someone "nobody likes". And if nobody really liked him, to whom is she directing these comments?

She's telling it like it isn't.
I believe she's referring to his popularity/support within the Senate itself, not with the voters. The democrat's "Ted Cruz" , so to speak.
  #58  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:35 PM
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Why were there only 6 people running for the Democratic nomination in 2016? And 4 years later, with Clinton not working in lockstep with the DNC, there are/were more than 2 dozen?

I don't think she stole anything from anyone, Bernie was always an outside chance, but something unusual happened that cycle.
And clearly, given the fact that the DNC field in 2012 consisted of one candidate, the Clintons must've been working overtime pulling the strings behind it all.
  #59  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:38 PM
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I am disturbed by the fact that Trump and many conservative pundits and strategists seem to want Sanders to get the nomination.
He's a weaker candidate than Biden, lefter than Biden, would be easier for Republicans in Congress to stymie and oppose than Biden, older than Biden, and it would be less likely that Democrats would support Bernie en masse than they would Biden.

It's a no-brainer; Bernie as presidential candidate would be considerably better for Republicans than Biden.
  #60  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:44 PM
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Why were there only 6 people running for the Democratic nomination in 2016?
Because, like in 2000, one Democrat was overwhelmingly popular with the primary electorate well before the primary even started.

Gore polled between 50 and 60 in spring of 1999.

Gore polled higher than that in spring 2015.

There is nothing unusual about most people declining to enter a contest that they will surely lose.
  #61  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:54 PM
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Because, like in 2000, one Democrat was overwhelmingly popular with the primary electorate well before the primary even started.

Gore polled between 50 and 60 in spring of 1999.

Gore polled higher than that in spring 2015.

There is nothing unusual about most people declining to enter a contest that they will surely lose.
Exactly. Thatís life. I can remember not even trying out for solos in jazz band or applying for promotions at work because everyone knew who was going to get it. Why do all that work? And, plenty of people could have jumped in had something happened to Clinton. Bernie was never close after Super Tuesday and was hopelessly behind after getting thrashed in NY.
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  #62  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:04 PM
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Wow, this is really fucking unhelpful. Circular firing sqaud in full effect. Let's all remember that the candidate we post about today may be the one we're knocking on doors for in October.
  #63  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:12 PM
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I don’t give a damn about moving the fucking window, I want to win elections.

Bernie is a lying vile shitstain on American politics only slightly less toxic than Trump. One look at his 2020 campaign staff tell you all you need to know about Bernie.

AOC is a naive unfunny joke and thankfully her hype is diminishing which is why she keeps saying more outlandish garbage to get attention.

Warren is a deeply flawed candidate but at least she’s not as completely in fantasy land like Bernie.
Yeah and us Bernie supporters are the toxic, closed minded ones.

You can move the overton window and still win elections. Not sure why you think you can't. Also I'm not sure why you seem to think Sanders will lose, or progressives will lose. Progressives hopefully won't be like the tea party who happily picked candidates in the primary who lost their general elections. The tea party cost the GOP probably at least 5 senate seat pickups between 2010 and 2016. Which is good and I'd hope progressives don't do the same. I will happily pick someone like Joe Manchin over a progressive democrat who would've lost the senate election in West Virginia.

But promoting centrist candidates who are scared to use the power that voters give them has its own risk. You run the risk that people won't donate money, volunteer or vote for someone who is tepid and passive. In 2008 65 million people voted for democrats in the house election, in 2010 only about 40 million bothered to show up. So about 25 million democrats stayed home and didn't vote. By comparison only 7 million republicans stayed home between 2008 and 2010. The 2010 GOP wave election wasn't because people became republicans, it was because democrats didn't motivate their voters to show up and 25 million stayed home.

If I were you, I'd accept that the party is changing and make the best of it. Its moving towards a grassroots, more liberal, activist party.
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  #64  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:18 PM
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Wow, this is really fucking unhelpful. Circular firing sqaud in full effect. Let's all remember that the candidate we post about today may be the one we're knocking on doors for in October.
Oh? Because someone finally calls out Bernie itís a circular firing squad? Iím glad Bernie is FINALLY getting the scrutiny he needs.

The Washington Post also called out Bernie for his hypocrisy. https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit....co/rHNNrkxg56

Iím well aware that the Bros see a conspiracy everywhere. But, finally Bernie is being vetted and I donít think most non Bernistas are going to like what they see.
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  #65  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:19 PM
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‘Nobody likes Sanders’ is in my linked articles which refers to his colleagues in Congress. It’s stunning how little support Bernie has received from those who know him best. Heck even during Bernie’s first couple of years in the House, Barney Frank pegged him as a useless windbag that was impossible to work with and refused to compromise. Acting like a spoiled toddler isn’t good for useless back bench representative, much less a Senator and certainly not a President.
That is my impression too.

But Sanders did vote for the ACA even though that was at best a half measure. He also voted for Dodd-Frank which didn't go far enough.

So I'm not sure why people are saying he won't compromise, he has a track record of voting for half measures rather than turning them down and getting nothing. Half a loaf is better than nothing.

The big thing is the democrats pre-compromise, and they pre-compromise to win non-existent and useless 'bipartisan support'. The democrats did that with the ACA. They gave up single payer and a public option before the debate even started, then they gave up even more in the hopes a few republicans would vote for it, and they never did.

Being submissive and incompetent is just as bad as being uncompromising. Neither is good for a legislator.
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  #66  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:23 PM
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Yeah and us Bernie supporters are the toxic, closed minded ones.

You can move the overton window and still win elections. Not sure why you think you can't. Also I'm not sure why you seem to think Sanders will lose, or progressives will lose. Progressives hopefully won't be like the tea party who happily picked candidates in the primary who lost their general elections. The tea party cost the GOP probably at least 5 senate seat pickups between 2010 and 2016. Which is good and I'd hope progressives don't do the same. I will happily pick someone like Joe Manchin over a progressive democrat who would've lost the senate election in West Virginia.

But promoting centrist candidates who are scared to use the power that voters give them has its own risk. You run the risk that people won't donate money, volunteer or vote for someone who is tepid and passive. In 2008 65 million people voted for democrats in the house election, in 2010 only about 40 million bothered to show up. So about 25 million democrats stayed home and didn't vote. By comparison only 7 million republicans stayed home between 2008 and 2010. The 2010 GOP wave election wasn't because people became republicans, it was because democrats didn't motivate their voters to show up and 25 million stayed home.

If I were you, I'd accept that the party is changing and make the best of it. Its moving towards a grassroots, more liberal, activist party.
Bernie has a stellar record of endorsing losing candidates. So, heís got that in common with the Tea Party.

And, no, a few deeply in debt college students/grads tweeting away from Mommyís basement doesnít indicate that the Democratic Party is being taken over.
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Old 01-21-2020, 02:26 PM
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Oh? Because someone finally calls out Bernie itís a circular firing squad? Iím glad Bernie is FINALLY getting the scrutiny he needs.

The Washington Post also called out Bernie for his hypocrisy. https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit....co/rHNNrkxg56

Iím well aware that the Bros see a conspiracy everywhere. But, finally Bernie is being vetted and I donít think most non Bernistas are going to like what they see.
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group opting to provide more information about its donors. But he suggested he would not call on its leaders to do so while his opponents continue to rely on similar organizations.

"You've got groups all over the country that legally can do what they want. And I would be very happy to say and to urge an end to all that if other candidates do the same. So I am not in favor of these things," Sanders said in an hour-long interview on New Hampshire Public Radio. "That is the way it is."

Tax filings show Our Revolution raised nearly $2.7 million in 2018, the most recent year for which records are available. That total includes more than $500,000 from 15 donors whose identities have been shielded. Two of those donors made six-figure contributions.
Six figure donations aren't nothing to sneeze at, but they aren't really big ticket funding either like the Koch brothers whose network raised $900 million in 2016.

And Sanders said he'd be happy to end the practice if everyone else ends it too.

If Sanders wins the nomination, will you vote for him in the general? If not, you are worse than the people you criticize.
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Old 01-21-2020, 02:27 PM
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Bernie has a stellar record of endorsing losing candidates.
He endorsed Hillary after losing to her so...story checks out.

Last edited by orcenio; 01-21-2020 at 02:28 PM.
  #69  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:29 PM
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And, no, a few deeply in debt college students/grads tweeting away from Mommy’s basement doesn’t indicate that the Democratic Party is being taken over.
ActBlue is raising a billion dollars a year in small donations. Small donors are outraising the Koch network by a huge margin. The new generation of democrats are trying to show democratic politicians you can succeed w/o corporate funding. Especially if democrats pass laws empowering small donors (making small donations a tax credit, matching contributions, etc).

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...r-dems-in-2019

The % of democrats who consider themselves liberal keeps growing. Going from 25% in 1994 to over 50% by 2016, and its still growing. Last time I checked I believe it was 55% who are liberals.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-conte...oza.0111-1.png

You can scream all you want, the party is changing. Bernie and AOC are just the start of a democratic party that is more aggressive, more organized, more grassroots and more liberal.
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  #70  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:30 PM
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it would be less likely that Democrats would support Bernie en masse than they would Biden.
Wait, I thought it was just the BernieBros who would betray the party and stay home in November, or vote for Tulsi or whoever, if their guy didn't get the nomination!

Now you're telling me it's more the other way around, that it's the centrist Dems who'd pull the disappearing act if they don't get the nominee they want!

But we're supposed to be nice to those centrists, while it's OK to dump on the BernieBros.

Do I have this right? I'm sooooooo confused!!
  #71  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:32 PM
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If Sanders wins the nomination, will you vote for him in the general? If not, you are worse than the people you criticize.
He'll probably vote for Sanders, but not after 15 more threads detailing how awful Sanders is and how delighted he'll be to see him fail. Check out any of his Corbyn threads.
  #72  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:37 PM
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Six figure donations aren't nothing to sneeze at, but they aren't really big ticket funding either like the Koch brothers whose network raised $900 million in 2016.

And Sanders said he'd be happy to end the practice if everyone else ends it too.

If Sanders wins the nomination, will you vote for him in the general? If not, you are worse than the people you criticize.
Even though I have the so-called privilege of throwing away my Illinois vote, I would vote for him in the general election. I just donít see a path for him to get the nomination, once it gets down to Sanders vs anyone, the anyone will gather steam and smother Sanders just like Hillary did.
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  #73  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:40 PM
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He'll probably vote for Sanders, but not after 15 more threads detailing how awful Sanders is and how delighted he'll be to see him fail. Check out any of his Corbyn threads.
Corbyn is a lot like Sanders. Instead of hanging his disgraceful head in shame, he is sticking around to continue to poison Labour.

Once Sanders loses this primary, I hope like hell that will be last we ever hear from him. Both Sanders and Corbyn have done irreparable harm to their respective parties.
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  #74  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:47 PM
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Hillary Clinton lost the last election, sure. But she got, what, 3 million more votes than Trump. I 'd say there are still plenty of people in this country that still like her and respect her opinions. If so, your premise here is could be dangerous to your hopes for Bernie in the coming election, and you might want to consider the old adage about getting what you ask for. Just sayin'.
I don't really feel strongly either way. I don't have strong negative feelings about Hillary and I don't have strong positive feelings about Bernie. I just lean Bernie right now, and I lean towards this kind of thing from Hillary helping him. When I head into Bernie-subreddits, they love this stuff. When I talk to Trump supporters in real life, some of them actually sort of like Bernie (and a few say they would have voted for him in '16), because they think he's for the workers against the big companies (like the old-fashioned view of the parties) but hated Hillary.

We'll see.
  #75  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:51 PM
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Even though I have the so-called privilege of throwing away my Illinois vote, I would vote for him in the general election. I just donít see a path for him to get the nomination, once it gets down to Sanders vs anyone, the anyone will gather steam and smother Sanders just like Hillary did.
Well I'm glad about that. I will vote for whoever the democrats put up too even if my preferred candidates do not win the primary election.

Having said that, with 55% of democratic voters being liberals I think Sanders has a realistic chance of winning. Also because liberals are in general more activist in politics, the % of democratic primary voters who are liberals is probably over 60%.
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  #76  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:52 PM
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Once Sanders loses this primary, I hope like hell that will be last we ever hear from him. Both Sanders and Corbyn have done irreparable harm to their respective parties.
This idea is just totally nuts to me, regarding Sanders. I personally know dozens of young people who wouldn't be interested in politics except for Sanders. Obviously Bernie is at least partly responsible for energetic young Democrats like AOC and several other young progressives deciding to run for (and winning) House races. Yes, they're very progressive in very progressive districts, but in many states we'll still need young progressives to come out and vote. I can understand not liking Bernie -- I can understand preferring other candidates -- but I can't understand not recognizing that the energy (and VERY successful fundraising, for God's sake!) he brings is helpful to the Democratic party as a whole.

He's really not that terrible. He's very progressive, and that's okay for the party. He's far from perfect too -- I wish he'd just full-on become a Democrat. But he's done a lot of good for the party from a political perspective. Outside energy, youthful support, and fundraising are all very positive things for the party, and he's been good at all 3.

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  #77  
Old 01-21-2020, 03:14 PM
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She lost, she lost as she lost states that she should have won. The goddamn electoral college is what mattered and she did not win it. She lost it more than Gore lost it. There is no reason to bother raising it in a thread like this. Save it for crazy Trump supporters that want to pretend he won the popular vote.

I hate the electoral college, I hate that a Wyoming vote is worth something like 7 New Jersey votes. It is a fucked up system where rural states are already over-powered via Congress. We should have a popular vote, but we don't.
I hate it too. And I agree with you, you have to play the game you’re playing. “I would’ve won if the rules had been different” doesn’t count for much.

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This idea is just totally nuts to me, regarding Sanders. I personally know dozens of young people who wouldn't be interested in politics except for Sanders. Obviously Bernie is at least partly responsible for energetic young Democrats like AOC and several other young progressives deciding to run for (and winning) House races. Yes, they're very progressive in very progressive districts, but in many states we'll still need young progressives to come out and vote.
This is a very important point, one I witnessed personally. I spent a lot of time, starting in 2013 or so, trying to get the young people that were in my life to take an interest in politics. At least enough interest to vote. And I couldn’t sell it.

But Bernie did. And when he dropped out, the Bernie Bros that I know all went for Clinton. Some of them even campaigned for her. Now, maybe some Bernie Bros got cranky and didn’t vote for Clinton. But, IMHO, if Bernie hadn’t run, they would’ve all stayed home on Election Day anyway.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 01-21-2020 at 03:16 PM.
  #78  
Old 01-21-2020, 03:22 PM
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Which third party are you going to throw your vote away on when Bernie gets his ass whipped in the primaries? There’s a lot fewer caucuses for him to pack his Bros with this time around.
My top three candidates are Buttigieg, Sanders, and (somewhat reluctantly) Yang, but I’ll support whoever gets nominated. In the meantime, though, I don’t want to hear a peep out of Hillary Clinton. Because she’s a warmonger and a Wall Street crony, and I don’t give a shit about her dumb-ass loser opinions.

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Old 01-21-2020, 03:33 PM
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I didn't check the OP initially to see that it linked to an actual news story and wasn't just Dale drunkposting. That's really despicable of Hillary. In refusing to unconditionally support the Democratic nominee, she's showing less maturity and worse judgment than pretty much every poster in this forum. Shame on her.
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:37 PM
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I donít give a damn about moving the fucking window, I want to win elections.

Bernie is a lying vile shitstain on American politics only slightly less toxic than Trump. One look at his 2020 campaign staff tell you all you need to know about Bernie.

AOC is a naive unfunny joke and thankfully her hype is diminishing which is why she keeps saying more outlandish garbage to get attention.

Warren is a deeply flawed candidate but at least sheís not as completely in fantasy land like Bernie.
Mayor Pete must be so proud to be associated with such classy supporters.
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:39 PM
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I didn't check the OP initially to see that it linked to an actual news story and wasn't just Dale drunkposting. That's really despicable of Hillary. In refusing to unconditionally support the Democratic nominee, she's showing less maturity and worse judgment than pretty much every poster in this forum. Shame on her.
Especially considering that Sanders campaigned for her in 2016.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie-...ton-1475928002
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:41 PM
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Oh? Because someone finally calls out Bernie it’s a circular firing squad? I’m glad Bernie is FINALLY getting the scrutiny he needs.

The Washington Post also called out Bernie for his hypocrisy. https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit....co/rHNNrkxg56

I’m well aware that the Bros see a conspiracy everywhere. But, finally Bernie is being vetted and I don’t think most non Bernistas are going to like what they see.
Yes, finally!

No one had anything bad to say about Bernie before now. But FINALLY! Someone TELLING IT LIKE IT IS!

I don't know why the media and all the pundits and the voters and everyone has just lined up unquestionably behind Bernie for the last 5 years. FINALLY someone's calling this shitstain out for the loser that he really is! Finally!


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Bernie is a lying vile shitstain on American politics only slightly less toxic than Trump.
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I would vote for him in the general election.
I guess I get it. I mean, I'll be voting "anyone but Trump 2020" as well . . . but that's also because it's pretty clear that while Trump is a lying vile shitstain, none of the people running for the Democratic nomination fall under that category.

If Bernie is really just slightly less a monster than Trump, maybe Dems should stay home if he gets nominated, because the country wouldn't be meaningfully different under a Sanders presidency?

Maybe this is just mincing words, but I don't see how a person can believe what you wrote and then turn around and vote for the lying vile shitstain.

Last edited by Eonwe; 01-21-2020 at 03:42 PM.
  #83  
Old 01-21-2020, 03:42 PM
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Tulsi Gabbard is being required to prove she will support the nominee. Bloomberg is being required to prove he will support the nominee. But Hillary doesn't have to support the nominee if he's the guy who campaigned for her more times than she campaigned for Obama.
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:44 PM
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I don’t give a damn about moving the fucking window, I want to win elections.

Bernie is a lying vile shitstain on American politics only slightly less toxic than Trump. One look at his 2020 campaign staff tell you all you need to know about Bernie.

AOC is a naive unfunny joke and thankfully her hype is diminishing which is why she keeps saying more outlandish garbage to get attention.

Warren is a deeply flawed candidate but at least she’s not as completely in fantasy land like Bernie.
I missed this, but wow what an awful, harmful sentiment for the party. I like the big tent -- folks like Bernie and AOC are welcome, especially with all the fundraising and youthful energy/support they bring. Moderates are also welcome, especially in moderate districts. If you want either category of those folks out of the party, then you want a party that will lose forever. We need young people in the party. It's nuts to me that a Democrat could be filled with so much hate about energetic progressives supporting progressive policies and bringing in youthful supporters. Especially a potential talent like AOC. She's not perfect, but I've literally NEVER seen a politician in their 20s with as much charisma and natural political talent that she's displayed. If she grows as much as Obama grew from his 20s to his 40s, then she could be another once-in-a-generation Democratic political talent.
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:45 PM
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We don't hate Sanders. We may prefer a different candidate but that doesn't mean we won't accept Sanders if he wins the nomination. We will support Sanders and vote for him even if he isn't our first choice.

What we're worried about is the possibility that Sanders supporters don't feel the same way. That if they don't get Sanders they won't support any other Democrat.
Huh. As a Sanders supporter who enthusiastically voted for Clinton (well, fervently might be a better word, or desperately), I'm concerned about exactly the opposite:
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It's been four years and the Bernie supporters I know are STILL convinced that it was some Clinton-DNC cabal that stole Sanders' certain primary victory. And won't shut up about it.
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Bernie is a lying vile shitstain on American politics only slightly less toxic than Trump. One look at his 2020 campaign staff tell you all you need to know about Bernie.

AOC is a naive unfunny joke and thankfully her hype is diminishing which is why she keeps saying more outlandish garbage to get attention.

Warren is a deeply flawed candidate but at least sheís not as completely in fantasy land like Bernie.
You think these sound like folks who plan to cast their vote for Sanders as fervently as I cast mine for Clinton?

You think Clinton, who just badmouthed one of the leading Democratic candidates in an incredibly personal way ("nobody likes him," are you in eighth grade, Hillary?), is planning on campaigning for Sanders if he wins as much as he campaigned for her?

The Democratic left is 100% expected to fall in line behind moderates when the moderates win primaries. The Democratic moderates have no such expectation for their own members.

Moderates, come get your people.
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:46 PM
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Tulsi Gabbard is being required to prove she will support the nominee. Bloomberg is being required to prove he will support the nominee. But Hillary doesn't have to support the nominee if he's the guy who campaigned for her more times than she campaigned for Obama.
Hillary isnít running in 2020. The reason the candidates are being asked if theyíll back the nominee is exactly because of the actions of Shitbag Sanders in 2016.
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  #87  
Old 01-21-2020, 03:51 PM
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I didn't check the OP initially to see that it linked to an actual news story and wasn't just Dale drunkposting. That's really despicable of Hillary. In refusing to unconditionally support the Democratic nominee, she's showing less maturity and worse judgment than pretty much every poster in this forum. Shame on her.
Oh, I wouldnít know anyone who didnít unconditionally support the 2016 nominee. Donít know of anyone who got their ass kicked in 2016 primaries, whined about them being rigged and then stayed in the race for over a month after the last primary. Iím sure the same person will happily accept defeat in the 2020 primary season.

Why do I feel like waggling my finger?
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:51 PM
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Hillary isnít running in 2020. The reason the candidates are being asked if theyíll back the nominee is exactly because of the actions of Shitbag Sanders in 2016.
His action=fully endorsing the winning candidate.

Your obsession with Sanders cannot possibly be good for you.
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:52 PM
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The Democratic left is 100% expected to fall in line behind moderates when the moderates win primaries. The Democratic moderates have no such expectation for their own members.

Moderates, come get your people.
Exactly, which I think is one of the major flaws in how we do politics in America. The more leftist you are, the less your vote or opinions are deemed to be important, while the more right wing you are the more valuable they are.

Leftist democrats are supposed to submit to moderate democrats. Democrats are supposed to appeal to conservative whites in rural areas. The further right wing you are, people assume your voice and vote matters more and it doesn't.

Nevermind the fact that leftist democrats make up a huge % of not just democratic voters, but probably the majority of volulnteers and donors. Without liberals and labor unions, the democrats would have far, far less money and volunteers. But we're told to just submit to a party that will try desperately to win the votes of rural whites who maybe, once in a blue moon, maybe will vote democratic.

Leftist democrats are expected to do much of the heavy lifting (voting, volunteering and donating) so that the democratic party can ignore them to appeal to conservative democrats and conservative 'independents' and people are tired of it.
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:57 PM
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Man... The media and the establishment candidates really don't want Bernie. The more they call him sexist and racist the more people roll their eyes and want to vote for him more.
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If they feel cheated, maybe.

If this was a FAIR fight and Biden or whoever won fair, and won on their own merits, the 'Bernie Bros" might be more inclined to vote.

If you make it seem like their vote doesn't matter then they might not.
For the life of me, I can't make sense of the type of support that Bernie and Trump both gather.

There's this commonality that calling either candidate racist is GOOD for the candidate. And, that the only fair election is the one that their guy wins.
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:03 PM
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Exactly, which I think is one of the major flaws in how we do politics in America. The more leftist you are, the less your vote or opinions are deemed to be important, while the more right wing you are the more valuable they are.

Leftist democrats are supposed to submit to moderate democrats. Democrats are supposed to appeal to conservative whites in rural areas. The further right wing you are, people assume your voice and vote matters more and it doesn't.

Nevermind the fact that leftist democrats make up a huge % of not just democratic voters, but probably the majority of volulnteers and donors. Without liberals and labor unions, the democrats would have far, far less money and volunteers. But we're told to just submit to a party that will try desperately to win the votes of rural whites who maybe, once in a blue moon, maybe will vote democratic.

Leftist democrats are expected to do much of the heavy lifting (voting, volunteering and donating) so that the democratic party can ignore them to appeal to conservative democrats and conservative 'independents' and people are tired of it.
I missed the edit window, but black voters are also a very reliable base of the democratic party who get ignored too. Which is kind of ironic regarding my post.

Point being, groups like blacks, labor unions and liberals are used to be hit up for money, volunteers and votes by the democratic party, and then being ignored in favor of the democratic party serving the interests of and being scared of corporations and conservative rural whites, and people want things to change. Democrats need to appeal to and fear their own voters, not rural whites and corporations.
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:13 PM
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You think these sound like folks who plan to cast their vote for Sanders as fervently as I cast mine for Clinton?
Since you quoted me, I assume I'm "folks" and I'll vote for whoever wins the Democratic nomination. Even if I think Sanders is worthless from a "getting policy enacted" standpoint and have a strong dislike for his 2016 campaign, at least I know he won't be plundering the budget for a stupid wall or nominating Heritage Foundation-approved justices. Or a bunch of other Trump shit you already know about.

See, as a "pragmatic" or "moderate" or whatever Democrat, I understand that half a loaf is better than a poke in the eye. I'm not going to be the one playing coy about how "I'll need to evaluate my options" if my preferred candidate doesn't win.

Last edited by Jophiel; 01-21-2020 at 04:17 PM.
  #93  
Old 01-21-2020, 04:24 PM
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You think Clinton, who just badmouthed one of the leading Democratic candidates in an incredibly personal way ("nobody likes him," are you in eighth grade, Hillary?), is planning on campaigning for Sanders if he wins as much as he campaigned for her?
Yes, I do. Because of history.

Clinton campaigned a lot more for Obama after he defeated her in 2008 than Sanders campaigned for Clinton after she defeated him in 2016. Clinton was able to suck up her defeat and back the party's nominee.
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:29 PM
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Yes, I do. Because of history.

Clinton campaigned a lot more for Obama after he defeated her in 2008 than Sanders campaigned for Clinton after she defeated him in 2016. Clinton was able to suck up her defeat and back the party's nominee.
And Hillary will campaign strategically in areas where Bernie isnít strong. Just like Bill, and Barack and Michelle Obama. They all have their areas of strength. In the awful event of a Sanders nomination, letís hope he picks a decent VP. That VP is one heart attack from the Presidency.
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:34 PM
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Nevermind the fact that leftist democrats make up a huge % of not just democratic voters, but probably the majority of volulnteers and donors.
If leftist democrats made up a majority of the party, then Sanders would have won the nomination. Clinton won because the majority are moderates.

Most people live in communities of like-minded people. This can give you a false view of what the country is like. Just because everyone you knows thinks a candidate is great doesn't mean they're a sure winner.

We saw it on this board back in 2004. We took informal polls here and John Kerry got something like ninety percent of the votes - and then he lost the actual election.
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:40 PM
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I will say that I think Sanders has handled this situation well. When reporters questioned him about Clinton's claim that "Nobody likes him" he said "On a good day, my wife likes me."

Clinton should publicly commit to supporting the Democratic candidate, whoever it ends up being. And I think she will do so within the next day or two. But she would look hypocritical if she was speaking out against Sanders and then said she'd vote for him anyway at the same event. She needs to have some distance between the two statements.
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:41 PM
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If leftist democrats made up a majority of the party, then Sanders would have won the nomination. Clinton won because the majority are moderates.

Most people live in communities of like-minded people. This can give you a false view of what the country is like. Just because everyone you knows thinks a candidate is great doesn't mean they're a sure winner.

We saw it on this board back in 2004. We took informal polls here and John Kerry got something like ninety percent of the votes - and then he lost the actual election.
Sanders did come out of nowhere and win 43% of the vote. Granted not a majority and him not winning a majority of delegates is why he lost. But there is a trendline of the democratic party becoming more progressive and grassroots.

Had Sanders run in 2004 he would've gotten nowhere. Howard Dean won 5% of the primary vote in 2004. Kucinich was a joke in 2004.

I know the democratic party is a coalition and not everyone in the democratic party is a liberal. But a little more than half of democrats are liberals now, up from 25% just a few decades ago and that trend doesn't seem to be changing. Also the age of the internet is empowering liberals who seem to be more likely to donate time or money than moderates.

Solid liberals are 16% of the country, 19% of registered voters and 25% of people who actually vote (which makes them about half of democratic voters). Because they're involved. Because of this they probably make up over 25% of primary voters since primary turnout is lower than general election turnout.

https://www.people-press.org/2017/10...up-profiles-2/

For other groups in the democratic coalition, the % who are the share of adult population, share of registered voters and share of actual voters is about the same. For opportunity democrats for example it is 12%, 13% and 13% respectively.
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 01-21-2020 at 04:43 PM.
  #98  
Old 01-21-2020, 06:15 PM
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And Hillary will campaign strategically in areas where Bernie isnít strong. Just like Bill, and Barack and Michelle Obama. They all have their areas of strength. In the awful event of a Sanders nomination, letís hope he picks a decent VP. That VP is one heart attack from the Presidency.
I think you're more of what people consider to be "trollish" than anyone here on Bernie's side.
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Old 01-21-2020, 06:16 PM
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Go back to the original OP and read the article where they discuss how Hillary agreed to do this and one stipulation was Hillary would only work if the director was a female.


Hmmm... Imagine if a man said he would only work with a male director.
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Old 01-21-2020, 06:18 PM
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For the life of me, I can't make sense of the type of support that Bernie and Trump both gather.

There's this commonality that calling either candidate racist is GOOD for the candidate. And, that the only fair election is the one that their guy wins.
Bullsh*t. People just want a fair election. What are you talking about in regards to racism??

Last edited by MyFootsZZZ; 01-21-2020 at 06:18 PM.
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