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  #51  
Old 01-23-2020, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Asuka View Post
Remember when Ebola and Zika were supposed to kill all of us four years ago? People here were legitimately saying Zika was going to cancel the Brazilian 2016 Olympics.
During the 2014-15 Ebola outbreak, one of my Facebook/IRL friends posted that her then-15-year-old daughter had come to her with tears in her eyes and said, "Mom, I'm scared."

"Of what, honey?"

"I'm afraid we're all going to die from Ebola."

She flipped her laptop open and showed her daughter some stories which explained that it was not a threat to the overwhelming majority of people in the U.S., and that this had turned into a long conversation about AIDS, a disease that she herself first heard of at age 15, in the early 1980s, and that people were MUCH more frightened of AIDS, and rightfully so because we knew so little about it.

Further research indicated that it was not easily transmitted, and also not as new a disease as most people thought. My response to that post was "Give your daughter a great big hug for me, and tell her that we don't have to worry about Ebola in this country."

I personally believe that many of the Zika-exposed babies with microcephaly also had pesticide and other chemical exposures in utero, which doesn't make their fate any less tragic.

During the SARS outbreak, I was working at the big hospital, and I remember having a conversation, along with another pharmacist, with a technician who asked if we thought SARS would be an issue in our region. We explained that in the area where SARS originated, people live much more closely with their livestock than farmers do here, and are much more likely to do their own butchering, in addition to the big open-air markets you see on TV and You Tube.

(You Tube didn't exist at that time, but TV certainly did.)
  #52  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve McQwark View Post
Ramen noodles!!??? Are you crazy? Those things are Asian. You're just begging to be infected by the... the... say, does this new virus have a catchy name yet? How can I panic appropriately if I don't know the correct name? Flunado! Virpocalypse! Flurus!
I haven't seen a good name yet. Unfortunately, that'll probably mean it gets some stupid acronym that no one can remember the expansion of. But if we're going to make something up, how about the Wuhan Wu.

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Originally Posted by bordelond View Post
I am curious as to how one stocks up on antibiotics in the U.S.
Order them online from India? I don't know if that's possible, but my understanding is that antibiotics are much more easily available there than pretty much anywhere else.
  #53  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:53 AM
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I'm guessing that most people interested in these kinds of infections may have seen the film "Outbreak" (1995) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt00000114069

That film may be one of the best to deal with Ebola and similar outbreaks. It may exaggerate some of the events. But it is still worth seeing. The film is absolutely terrifying. So please be careful when watching it in front of children. For anyone who wants to know more about these kinds of outbreaks, please be sure you take the events with a grain of salt, but I believe it is worth watching this film to get some idea of what the worst case scenario might be.

Last edited by Charlie Wayne; 01-24-2020 at 12:55 AM.
  #54  
Old 01-24-2020, 06:39 AM
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In North America, you are far more like to catch (and die from) influenza than this new bug. Yet, people procrastinate getting, or simply decline to get the influenza vaccine (NB - cost is not an issue at least in Canada where it is given for free at most pharmacies).
Even here in the US there are many, many places to get flu shots at low or no cost - yet people won't. I suspect even if you paid people to get them many would not.
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Old 01-24-2020, 08:14 AM
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Even here in the US there are many, many places to get flu shots at low or no cost - yet people won't. I suspect even if you paid people to get them many would not.
I resisted the flu shot for many years because I worried that sometimes people get sick from an injection (notably from vaccinations). I had read that the way vaccinations work is that they actually give the subject a very small dose of the illness and are then able to give the subject immunity from that illness. Ultimately, my doctor had helped me with several serious matters and I decided to trust him. He advised me to get the flu shot and so I did.

I'd still like to know just how vaccinations work and what the percentages are. I mean, for a serious diseases:

1) What percentage of people who do not get the vaccinations contract the disease?

2) What percentage of people who get the vaccinations contract the disease?

3) What percentage of people are actually worse off for having taken the vaccination? (meaning how many take the vaccine but still contract the disease)?

Last edited by Charlie Wayne; 01-24-2020 at 08:16 AM.
  #56  
Old 01-24-2020, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Charlie Wayne View Post
I'd still like to know just how vaccinations work and what the percentages are. I mean, for a serious diseases:

1) What percentage of people who do not get the vaccinations contract the disease?

2) What percentage of people who get the vaccinations contract the disease?

3) What percentage of people are actually worse off for having taken the vaccination? (meaning how many take the vaccine but still contract the disease)?
That varies from vaccine to vaccine and is different for different population groups and different vaccination patterns.
  #57  
Old 01-24-2020, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Charlie Wayne View Post
I resisted the flu shot for many years because I worried that sometimes people get sick from an injection (notably from vaccinations). I had read that the way vaccinations work is that they actually give the subject a very small dose of the illness and are then able to give the subject immunity from that illness.
The flu shot does not use a live virus. The flu nasal vaccine does use a live weakened form of the virus.
  #58  
Old 01-24-2020, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Charlie Wayne View Post
I resisted the flu shot for many years because I worried that sometimes people get sick from an injection (notably from vaccinations). I had read that the way vaccinations work is that they actually give the subject a very small dose of the illness and are then able to give the subject immunity from that illness. Ultimately, my doctor had helped me with several serious matters and I decided to trust him. He advised me to get the flu shot and so I did.

I'd still like to know just how vaccinations work and what the percentages are. I mean, for a serious diseases:

1) What percentage of people who do not get the vaccinations contract the disease?

2) What percentage of people who get the vaccinations contract the disease?

3) What percentage of people are actually worse off for having taken the vaccination? (meaning how many take the vaccine but still contract the disease)?
I am a little confused as to what the difference is between #2 and #3. Both are asking "What percentage of people who get the vaccinations contract the disease?"

As a follow-up, how is one worse off if they contract the disease even though they have received a vaccination? That is, are you looking for instances of people getting sicker because they received a vaccination for the disease? I believe in most cases, even if one contracts a disease for which a vaccination has been given, they are less sick then they would have been had they not received a vaccination.

Now, there are instances where someone will have a adverse reaction to a vaccine. That is a very, very low occurrence, but it does happen. Statistically, I believe the vaccine is so much more likely to prevent you from serious illness or death than it will cause harm.
  #59  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Charlie Wayne View Post
I resisted the flu shot for many years because I worried that sometimes people get sick from an injection (notably from vaccinations). I had read that the way vaccinations work is that they actually give the subject a very small dose of the illness and are then able to give the subject immunity from that illness. Ultimately, my doctor had helped me with several serious matters and I decided to trust him. He advised me to get the flu shot and so I did.

I'd still like to know just how vaccinations work and what the percentages are. I mean, for a serious diseases:

1) What percentage of people who do not get the vaccinations contract the disease?

2) What percentage of people who get the vaccinations contract the disease?

3) What percentage of people are actually worse off for having taken the vaccination? (meaning how many take the vaccine but still contract the disease)?
I never got the flu or anything else as an adult til I started getting the flu shot 4 years ago; then I got sick all the time. SO I am not getting the shot.
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  #60  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:03 PM
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Even here in the US there are many, many places to get flu shots at low or no cost - yet people won't. I suspect even if you paid people to get them many would not.
How much is being offered?
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  #61  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:09 PM
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Well, O'Hare is an international airport and the hub of the Midwest, and I work in a building crammed with over 1,000 people all touching the same things and breathing the same air so, yeah, I'm not thrilled by this new virus one bit.
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  #62  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:14 PM
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Every time viruses get mentioned, someone has to bring up antibiotics, someone else then has to recite the "overuse/ineffective" speech yet again ... I guess I don't understand how that hasn't sunk in more thoroughly.

I mean, the majority of people are familiar with "Look both ways before you cross the street" and "Call 911 in emergencies." I didn't think this was more complicated, but O.P. isn't the first person I've heard THIS WEEK talking about antibiotics as a magic cure-all that you can take - and critically, STOP taking - whenever you feel like it.

Anyway, I also have to wonder what, if anything, "staying indoors for a week" would accomplish. Unless you have industrial-scale filters for your home HVAC intake (and you don't ... ) then being inside wouldn't provide any additional protection.

Air conditioning and Netflix, sure. But not protection from viruses.
However people like my cousin often donít die directly from the virus (flu in her case) they die from a secondary bacterial infection which is treated with antibiotics.


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Let's not forget those Mad Cows.
How can I? I still canít give blood because of them.

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Not only that, but the average person will have a difficult time stockpiling antibiotics, since virtually all of them are prescription only. Unless we're talking about using Neosporin as a sandwich spread.
There are places not far from the US where you can buy them over the counter.
  #63  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:15 PM
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Part of the issue is that nobody trusts the Chinese government, so the information we're getting is not reliable, so that fuels fears. It's probably too early to start worrying about a pandemic- there's no evidence of that yet.

Has any reputable organization made that claim? Not fucking hearsay from "secret sources"? Since everything I have read about it suggests that the Chinese Government has been as forthcoming with the information they have. I mean it took several days for them to i)identify this as a virus that ii)could spread to humans. This takes time. Its not like they could get revelations on it from the Almighty.
  #64  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:24 PM
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The world news sites are reporting there is a new virus in China that keeps on mutating and spreading every day.

There seems to be considerable concern because some people are dying while many more are getting sick.

The concerns is how fast this thing is spreading.

How much do you know about this virus? Do you feel that you know enough so that you know there is not much need for concern?

Or are you taking any steps to keep yourself healthy?
I am not overly concerned.

Several years ago, Canada was hit by West Nile and SARS. (Not only Canada, as the virus came from elsewhere.) I didn't get sick either time. The statistics showed that I was extremely unlikely to get infected.

My understanding was SARS was deadlier (but less contagious) than the flu, which is in turn deadlier (but less contagious) than the common cold. Diseases get less deadly over time because the disease isn't interested in killing the victim. I get flu shots every year now, but went years without getting them. I got the flu once or twice before I started getting the shots and, of course, didn't die. I took no protection against SARS and West Nile and didn't get sick. The coronavirus is basically a high-visibility but low risk form of death. I'm literally more likely to get run over crossing the street, and at most the newspaper would complain about traffic conditions for a day, unless there was a crime involved (hit and run, drunk driving, etc).

I hope they come up with a vaccine, because some people (perhaps children or the elderly?) are more vulnerable to it than others.
  #65  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:31 PM
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Has any reputable organization made that claim? Not fucking hearsay from "secret sources"? Since everything I have read about it suggests that the Chinese Government has been as forthcoming with the information they have. I mean it took several days for them to i)identify this as a virus that ii)could spread to humans. This takes time. Its not like they could get revelations on it from the Almighty.
I saw a screenshot of an anonymous post on 8chan saying it was manufactured by the Chinese government to use against the Uyghurs but it got away. I read it on the internet so it must be true.
  #66  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:43 PM
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This is a serious concern, in case some may have thought it was not: China is building at least one hospital just to treat victims of this new coronavirus & they have quarantined more than 36 million people.
Quote:
China expanded its lockdown against the deadly new virus to an unprecedented 36 million people and rushed to build a prefabricated, 1,000-bed hospital for victims Friday as the outbreak cast a pall over Lunar New Year, the country’s biggest and most festive holiday.

The number of confirmed cases around the world climbed sharply to more than 850, with at least 25 deaths, all of them in China.

The U.S. reported its second case, involving a Chicago woman in her 60s who was hospitalized after returning from China. She was reported to be doing well.

,Transportation was shut down in Wuhan, the city of 11 million at the epicenter of the outbreak, and in at least 12 other cities in central China’s Hubei province, encompassing a population bigger than that of New York, London, Paris and Moscow combined.
More info at this link:
Quote:
WHAT’S NEW TODAY

— The number of confirmed cases rose to 830. Twenty-six people have died, including the first two deaths outside Hubei.

— After Wuhan halted all outbound flights, trains, buses and ferries on Thursday, 12 other cities in the central province of Hubei followed suit, with a combined population of more than 36 million now under lockdown.

— Wuhan is swiftly building a 1,000-bed hospital dedicated to the disease. The prefabricated structure, slated for completion Feb. 3, is modeled after the Xiaotangshan SARS hospital in Beijing. The SARS hospital was built from scratch in 2003 and featured individual isolation units that looked like rows of tiny cabins.

—- The new virus claimed its youngest victim. A 36-year-old man in Hubei was admitted to the hospital earlier this month after suffering from fever for three days. He died following a sudden cardiac arrest on Jan. 23.

— South Korea and Japan both detected their second cases, and Singapore two more for a total of three.

— Hospitals in Wuhan are grappling with a flood of patients and a lack of supplies. At least eight hospitals in Wuhan issued public calls for donations of masks, goggles, gowns and other protective medical gear, according to notices online.
  #67  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:48 PM
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How much is being offered?
When I get my flu vaccine at Giant Eagle's pharmacy, they scan my Advantage Card and put $5 on my account.
  #68  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:53 PM
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This article seems to suggest that it is likely about as communicable as SARS, but less lethal (about 9.5% for SARS vs about 3% for the new virus.) If it follows the SARS epidemiology pattern we would expect a little over 200 deaths before it gets under control. Definitely worth taking action to get it under control, but nothing to panic about.

The caveats is that we have to rely on Chinese government figures so they may be underreporting the number of infections/deaths, on the other hand it appear that very swift action is being taken against it, so it could be significantly more or significantly less than my estimate.
  #69  
Old 01-24-2020, 02:07 PM
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I am a little confused as to what the difference is between #2 and #3. Both are asking "What percentage of people who get the vaccinations contract the disease?"
I am embarrassed because at the time I wrote this I was sure there was a real difference. But I must have either copied some text from another part of my post or I wasn't too careful. In any case, I was certain there were three possibilities but at this time, I just can't explain what the third possibility was.

If I figure it out, I will post again. But I also may just go into hiding.

In any case, thank you for pointing out that foolishness. I'm sorry about that.
  #70  
Old 01-24-2020, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Charlie Wayne View Post
I am embarrassed because at the time I wrote this I was sure there was a real difference. But I must have either copied some text from another part of my post or I wasn't too careful. In any case, I was certain there were three possibilities but at this time, I just can't explain what the third possibility was.

If I figure it out, I will post again. But I also may just go into hiding.

In any case, thank you for pointing out that foolishness. I'm sorry about that.
I don't know whether, if you get vaccinated and still get the disease, you get a milder case or you get over it faster. If that is what you meant.

Regards,
Shodan
  #71  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:30 PM
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2nd case in the US.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 01-24-2020 at 03:30 PM.
  #72  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:31 PM
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I'm guessing that most people interested in these kinds of infections may have seen the film "Outbreak" (1995) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt00000114069

That film may be one of the best to deal with Ebola and similar outbreaks. It may exaggerate some of the events. But it is still worth seeing. The film is absolutely terrifying. So please be careful when watching it in front of children. For anyone who wants to know more about these kinds of outbreaks, please be sure you take the events with a grain of salt, but I believe it is worth watching this film to get some idea of what the worst case scenario might be.
About as much as I believe that Jaws was a documentary on sharks.


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Originally Posted by Charlie Wayne View Post
I resisted the flu shot for many years because I worried that sometimes people get sick from an injection (notably from vaccinations). I had read that the way vaccinations work is that they actually give the subject a very small dose of the illness and are then able to give the subject immunity from that illness. Ultimately, my doctor had helped me with several serious matters and I decided to trust him. He advised me to get the flu shot and so I did.

I'd still like to know just how vaccinations work and what the percentages are. I mean, for a serious diseases:
<snip>
3) What percentage of people are actually worse off for having taken the vaccination? (meaning how many take the vaccine but still contract the disease)?
It's hard to prove a negative. Getting the flu shot cost me a few mins, $5, & an 'owie' in my arm. It's hard to prove that my not getting the flu was because I had the shot vs. me getting lucky & not getting it anyway. If the latter, I wasted some time, some money, & some physical discomfort.

Also, saying 'flu' is like saying 'car'. If we're at a hotel in the city & I state that our ride-share will be here in three minutes, you really don't know what you're looking for. Even if I say our Honda ride share will be here in three minutes, you don't know if you're looking for an Accord, a Civic, A CR-V, or a Pilot. There are different strains of the flu & the experts make up flu shots well in advance (because of production & distribution requirements) as to what will be the big variant(s) this year. Just because you had a shot for flu A1234 doesn't mean you won't contract variant B5678.
  #73  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:45 PM
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More happy thoughts on the Wuhan nCoV: Novel coronavirus 2019-nCoV: early estimation of epidemiological parameters and epidemic predictions From some researchers at Lancaster University, University of Florida, and University of Glasgow.

Pre-peer review, so take it with as many grains as you want, but here's the meat of the abstract:
Quote:
We fitted a transmission model to reported case information up to 21 January to estimate key epidemiological measures, and to predict the possible course of the epidemic, as the potential impact of travel restrictions into and from Wuhan. We estimate the basic reproduction number of the infection (R_0) to be 3.8 (95% confidence interval, 3.6-4.0), indicating that 72-75% of transmissions must be prevented by control measures for infections to stop increasing. We estimate that only 5.1% (95%CI, 4.8-5.5) of infections in Wuhan are identified, and by 21 January a total of 11,341 people (prediction interval, 9,217-14,245) had been infected in Wuhan since the start of the year. Should the epidemic continue unabated in Wuhan, we predict the epidemic in Wuhan will be substantially larger by 4 February (191,529 infections; prediction interval, 132,751-273,649), infection will be established in other Chinese cities, and importations to other countries will be more frequent. Our model suggests that travel restrictions from and to Wuhan city are unlikely to be effective in halting transmission across China; with a 99% effective reduction in travel, the size of the epidemic outside of Wuhan may only be reduced by 24.9% on 4 February.
R0 of 3.8 is not happy-making. Nor is an estimated identified infection percentage in Wuhan of only 5.1%.

AIUI, incubation time is about 3-6 days. So I guess we'll find out very soon how good their numbers are.

At least, I've not heard of any secondary infections of this bug, outside China. Thank God.

Last edited by Gray Ghost; 01-24-2020 at 03:46 PM.
  #74  
Old 01-24-2020, 05:07 PM
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Per WHO, it appears there is a secondary case of infection outside of China, in Vietnam.

No idea of any of the timeframes for that particular exposure. Seemed inevitable, given the rate of spread in China. I mean, they didn't all go to that food market in Wuhan.
  #75  
Old 01-24-2020, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
WHATíS NEW TODAY

ó The number of confirmed cases rose to 830. Twenty-six people have died, including the first two deaths outside Hubei.
This is getting a little more concerning. Two days ago I ran the numbers I'd seen then and the mortality rate then was 2.68%. These new numbers have gone just past 3.13%. That's still somewhat low, but a worrisome jump in 48 hours.
  #76  
Old 01-24-2020, 06:57 PM
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Ate my original post. Joy. Question I had was: how is mortality rate calculated? Is it dead/infected? Is it dead/(dead+recovered)? Some other way?

Also, one group I've not seen among the patients list are children.
  #77  
Old 01-24-2020, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
Quote:
WHATíS NEW TODAY

ó The number of confirmed cases rose to 830. Twenty-six people have died, including the first two deaths outside Hubei.
Not the latest information:

Quote:
There are more than 1,000 confirmed cases of infection, and at least 41 people have died. A total of 8,420 people are reported to be under observation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...0b1_story.html
  #78  
Old 01-24-2020, 07:54 PM
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I would expect both numbers of cases and deaths to jump in the initial days after a problem is identified simply because of increased monitoring - you'll catch more cases that might be otherwise overlooked.

It is worrisome but not cause for panic at this point, as far as I can see. Which opinion is from a non-professional and subject to change with more information.
  #79  
Old 01-24-2020, 08:01 PM
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one of the world's largest vaccine factories is about 10 miles from my house. It was built partly with US federal money. It is designed to ramp up quickly to make new vaccines. Of course they have to develop the vaccine first. They use cells, not eggs. I think they can crank out 30 million does a month if needed. This is the factory:

https://www.wral.com/seqirus-kicks-o...ion-/17999057/
  #80  
Old 01-24-2020, 08:19 PM
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one of the world's largest vaccine factories is about 10 miles from my house. It was built partly with US federal money. It is designed to ramp up quickly to make new vaccines. Of course they have to develop the vaccine first. They use cells, not eggs. I think they can crank out 30 million does a month if needed. This is the factory:

https://www.wral.com/seqirus-kicks-o...ion-/17999057/
Are there vaccines for coronavirii? I don't recall that one was ever crafted for the coronavirus that caused SARS. As I see in this 2009 Medscape article detailing the then state of the art in developing one. Or in this Medline blurb in 2016. Did the disease burn out and industry just said, "Fuck it."? Are there difficulties in adapting a killed-virus vaccine model to coronaviruses? (coronavirii? I didn't take Latin...)

I do see that Inovio just got a grant to make a DNA-based vaccine.
  #81  
Old 01-24-2020, 08:25 PM
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I was in the Beijing airport on Jan. 4. Read about the virus on Jan. 6. Started feeling ill on the 8th or 9th. Still not over it.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:09 PM
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Please seek professional medical care, steatopygia.
  #83  
Old 01-24-2020, 09:11 PM
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Not the latest information:
Quote:
There are more than 1,000 confirmed cases of infection, and at least 41 people have died. A total of 8,420 people are reported to be under observation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...0b1_story.html
You posted that at 1649 PST. By 1800 PST that number had risen:
Quote:
The National Health Commission reported a jump in the number of people infected with the virus to 1,287 with 41 deaths. The latest tally comes from 29 provinces across China, including 237 patients in serious condition. All 41 deaths have been in China, including 39 in Hubei province, the epicenter of the outbreak, one in Hebei and one in Heilongjiang.
And there's more!
Quote:
Meanwhile, Australia announced its first case Saturday, a Chinese man in his 50s who last week returned from China. France said that three people had fallen ill with the virus — the disease’s first appearance in Europe.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 01-24-2020 at 09:12 PM.
  #84  
Old 01-24-2020, 09:23 PM
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Please seek professional medical care, steatopygia.

I'm a nurse.
  #85  
Old 01-24-2020, 10:34 PM
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I'm guessing that most people interested in these kinds of infections may have seen the film "Outbreak" (1995) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt00000114069

That film may be one of the best to deal with Ebola and similar outbreaks. It may exaggerate some of the events. But it is still worth seeing. The film is absolutely terrifying. So please be careful when watching it in front of children. For anyone who wants to know more about these kinds of outbreaks, please be sure you take the events with a grain of salt, but I believe it is worth watching this film to get some idea of what the worst case scenario might be.
"Contagion" is about a mutant, deadly strain of influenza, and is MUCH better and more accurate than "Outbreak."

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1598778/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

ETA: Both movies are rated 6.6 on IMDB. I'd personally rate "Outbreak" as a 6.5, and "Contagion" an 8 or 9.

Last edited by nearwildheaven; 01-24-2020 at 10:35 PM.
  #86  
Old 01-24-2020, 10:44 PM
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There are places not far from the US where you can buy them over the counter.
You can buy some antibiotics OTC at farm supply stores. My local Theisen's has them, and some antivirals and antifungals along with large-bore needs used to administer them, and even some animal vaccines, right out on the sales floor.
  #87  
Old 01-24-2020, 11:26 PM
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I found this cool map where you can see the virus spread across the world, Plague Inc style.
  #88  
Old 01-25-2020, 12:55 AM
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The six most pointless ways to panic about the coronavirus

  #89  
Old 01-25-2020, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
"Contagion" is about a mutant, deadly strain of influenza, and is MUCH better and more accurate than "Outbreak."

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1598778/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

ETA: Both movies are rated 6.6 on IMDB. I'd personally rate "Outbreak" as a 6.5, and "Contagion" an 8 or 9.
Thank you for the tip. I have been wanting to see that.
  #90  
Old 01-25-2020, 01:34 AM
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I'm a nurse.
Which means you are in the group that’s the worst about taking care of themselves. Too busy taking care of others.

Last edited by Loach; 01-25-2020 at 01:34 AM.
  #91  
Old 01-25-2020, 01:37 AM
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I'm living in Shanghai, so I can actually be something of a on-the-ground war correspondent for this one.
Within a km of my home, a street of offices was closed (all the office workers told to work from home), because of one confirmed case. The government is really trying hard to keep this thing under control.

Which brings me to one thing I want to say, which is that, in various foreign forums I've seen, the idea that the Chinese government has been slower or more secretive than other countries would be, in the handling of this outbreak, seems to be a popular view. Not on the straight dope yet, but I want to be preemptive on this: most Chinese people have been surprised by how open the government has been internally and externally, and how seriously they've taken the threat. There are plenty of anecdotes like the street getting closed that I mentioned, and scientific data is being published in Western journals as well as direct collaboration with foreign disease centers.
I think a lot has been learned after SARS.

BTW I have had a sore throat and runny nose for the last 2 days or so. Almost certainly it is coincidental but everyone's a hypochondriac in these situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I'd say this is the scariest thing that's happened since the last time it's happened.

Are you old enough to remember the Bird Flu scare around 2000? The Ebola scare in the nineties? The AIDS scare in the eighties? The Swine Flu scare in the seventies? The Andromeda Strain scare of the sixties? (Okay, that last one may not have actually happened.)

This is not the first time we've had reports of some new disease arising and killing people and some people begin projecting the danger into the collapse of civilization or even the end of humanity. But what's always happened is that the disease hits a peak and then we get it under control. It becomes just another thing that some people die of; tragic for those people and their families but not a threat to humanity as a whole.
Yeah but the OP did not ask whether or not it's an extinction level event.
All the things you list are things to be legitimately concerned about (especially the andromeda strain), and this new virus is too.
Not jump out your window and run down the street screaming concerned, but yeah, concerned.
If our response is inadequate, huge numbers of people could die and/or suffer.

Last edited by Mijin; 01-25-2020 at 01:41 AM.
  #92  
Old 01-25-2020, 07:43 AM
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Please seek professional medical care, steatopygia.

Do people really "seek professional medical care" for presumed viral infections? I've never gone to a doctor because of colds/flu. I've been pretty ill, but assumed I'd just be told to use symptomatic care.

We've returned last Sunday from international travel and my gf has had a fever/cough/congestion for five days now. She was pretty sick initially, seems to be gradually improving. What (other than a bill) would she get from a doctor visit?

And another thing....why do people take their temperatures? Why bother? I can tell when I have a fever, why document it?
  #93  
Old 01-25-2020, 09:07 AM
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Do people really "seek professional medical care" for presumed viral infections? I've never gone to a doctor because of colds/flu. I've been pretty ill, but assumed I'd just be told to use symptomatic care.
Well, I've been known to do that, largely for two reasons:

1) I have asthma, therefore, I am at a higher risk for complications than the average person. I visit the doctor when I do not see rapid improvement so problems can be dealt with sooner rather than later.

2) I have sometimes worked for employers who want a doctor's note for an illness lasting more than a day or two.

Quote:
And another thing....why do people take their temperatures? Why bother? I can tell when I have a fever, why document it?
Because while a fever of 100F is a minor thing, a fever of 102 or 103 is much more serious and may require medical attention, and 104+ is life-threatening in many cases.

I'm guessing that you have been blessed in never having had a truly serious illness in your life. In which case, good for you, we should all be so fortunate.
  #94  
Old 01-25-2020, 09:14 AM
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Sorry. I've been kind of panicking and I was going to make a panic type of post but changed my mind for fear of foolishly alarming anyone unecessarily.

I will post a link to the Drudge Report so people who are interested can check out its current headlines. But be warned, they certainly seem alarming to me.

https://www.drudgereport.com

Last edited by Charlie Wayne; 01-25-2020 at 09:18 AM.
  #95  
Old 01-25-2020, 09:19 AM
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And another thing....why do people take their temperatures? Why bother? I can tell when I have a fever, why document it?
I can't, or at least not a low grade one.
  #96  
Old 01-25-2020, 09:21 AM
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I will post a link to the Drudge Report so people who are interested can check out its current headlines. But be warned, they certainly seem alarming to me.

https://www.drudgereport.com
In a world where online sources get paid for clicks, headlines will always be angled towards the alarming. Stop obsessing over it.
  #97  
Old 01-25-2020, 09:30 AM
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Because while a fever of 100F is a minor thing, a fever of 102 or 103 is much more serious and may require medical attention, and 104+ is life-threatening in many cases.
But wouldn't your condition mirror the grade of your fever? If your thermometer is defective and reads 104F but you feel fine, you don't run to urgent care, right? Likewise, if you feel like you're going to die and the thermometer reads 100F you seek medical care.

Other than infants, I just don't see why that particular parameter is measured and then that result responded to.

Quote:
I'm guessing that you have been blessed in never having had a truly serious illness in your life. In which case, good for you, we should all be so fortunate.
I've been all kinds of sick. Had my gallbladder removed, a stent placed in a coronary artery, numerous colds and viral infections. No, I do not have asthma, so I cannot speak to that, but other than asthmatics, who is helped by seeking medical care for common viral disease?
  #98  
Old 01-25-2020, 09:38 AM
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I'm supposed to accompany my husband on a business trip to Beijing in April, and I don't particularly want to go. This virus thing is not helping.
I wouldn't worry about going because right after Chinese New Year ends and infections rates continue to rise, American companies will end any non-essential travel.

I have already seen business trips being cancelled.

Having lived in China during SARS, and currently based in the US for one of the largest manufacturers in China (including about a factory campus with about 100,000 employees, you could say I'm watching this very closely. We have a daily executive war room set up to track the spread, how it is affecting our factory and our supply chains. Nothing notable yet, but China and all of our factories are shut until Feb2. 5 days ago our Wuhan factory implemented temperature checks for every person coming in and out.

Pulled out the playbook from SARS. Good news, this coronavirus was recognized as a threat much faster, there is a playbook, it's implemented much earlier in the cycle, transmission vector is largely understood (wash your hands and cough into your shoulder and avoid rubbing your eyes or nose).

I'll read thru this thread and will have a lot more comments later today
  #99  
Old 01-25-2020, 11:03 AM
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other than asthmatics, who is helped by seeking medical care for common viral disease?
Lung disease in general, not just asthma but copd, pulmonary fibrosis, cystic fibrosis and others can benefit from early deployment of steroids, antiviral, antibiotic, hydration, supplemental oxygen, and more depending on the individual condition.

Also folks with congestive heart failure, unstable angina, brittle diabetes, poorly controlled epilepsy, sickle cell anemia, and other significant chronic illnesses.

Those are the patients I want to hear from, and maybe see, when they have a significant viral illness. The otherwise healthy folk will do fine on their own, most (but not all ) of the time.

And some of the sickest folks may run no fevers at all
  #100  
Old 01-25-2020, 11:13 AM
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the year when flu vaccine was in short supply I got it because I am diabetic.
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