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  #51  
Old 01-30-2020, 03:31 PM
Urbanredneck is offline
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This reminds me of the time back when Ralph Nader was running and during a discussion a woman got up and screamed at him "because of YOU we will now be in a right wing police state (under Bush)".

Frankly I think the major parties feed their supporters this BS and hysteria to yell at their friends who dare to vote 3rd party. I had it thrown at me back in 1992 when I voted for Perot and thus, allowed Clinton. Word to the wise - people usually dont respond well to insults and wild accusations.
  #52  
Old 02-07-2020, 01:51 AM
DrDeth is offline
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https://www.huffpost.com/entry/senat...QZCBJYARx5u6bU

Treasury Department Hands Over Hunter Biden Info After Withholding Trump’s Tax Records
The impeachment trial is over, but Senate Republicans are pressing forward with an investigation into the Bidens.


This is why it is important to votes the bastards out.
  #53  
Old 02-07-2020, 04:04 AM
Unreconstructed Man is offline
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Originally Posted by DrDeth
Yes, he was fooled. The CIA said there were WMDs. The UN said (originally) there were WMDs. The National Security Advisor said there were WMDs. The president said there were WMDs. Israeli Intelligence said there were WMDs. Saddam had used WMD vs his own people. And Saddam himself openly bragged he had WMDs. So yeah- "he was fooled" But it's pretty hard to disbelieve everyone.
I was heavily involved in protesting the war at the time, and I remember the evidence presented was deeply flawed and full of holes you could drive a truck through. It’s actually pretty easy to disbelieve everyone if everything they’re telling you is obvious bullshit. And to say Bush bears 100% of the responsibility is absurd. He couldn’t have gone to war without the votes of people like Clinton and Biden.

I also remember when, for that very reason, voting for Iraq instantly disqualified any Democratic candidate from consideration for the Presidency. Whatever happened to that?
  #54  
Old 02-07-2020, 11:31 AM
DrDeth is offline
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Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Man View Post
I was heavily involved in protesting the war at the time, and I remember the evidence presented was deeply flawed and full of holes you could drive a truck through. It’s actually pretty easy to disbelieve everyone if everything they’re telling you is obvious bullshit. And to say Bush bears 100% of the responsibility is absurd. He couldn’t have gone to war without the votes of people like Clinton and Biden.

I also remember when, for that very reason, voting for Iraq instantly disqualified any Democratic candidate from consideration for the Presidency. Whatever happened to that?
That's all very nice now with 20/20 hindsight. And oddly Biden agrees, it was a bad vote. But it may have been BS to you but since the worlds Intelligence Agencies all agreed, it was hardly " evidence presented was deeply flawed and full of holes you could drive a truck through."

and that never was a meme. It's only something Berniebros thought of.
  #55  
Old 02-07-2020, 12:26 PM
Unreconstructed Man is offline
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
That's all very nice now with 20/20 hindsight. And oddly Biden agrees, it was a bad vote. But it may have been BS to you but since the worlds Intelligence Agencies all agreed, it was hardly " evidence presented was deeply flawed and full of holes you could drive a truck through."
No. Really. The “evidence” was weak-assed garbage, and it was obvious at the time. Here’s a few of those holes I mentioned:

1). In 2002, Hans Blix’s UN inspection team concluded Iraq wasn’t pursuing nuclear weapons.

2). In 2003, Bush said “The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa”. This claim was taken from documents which the CIA at the time considered extremely unreliable, and which were later proven to be forged.

3). In 2002, Dick Cheney went on TV to say that Saddam’s own son-in-law, Hussein Kamal, had told the US that Saddam has restarted his nuclear weapons program. The problem was that Kamal had never said any such thing. In fact, he’d said the opposite thing and the CIA and the IAEA had the documents to prove it.

So those are some of the holes, and they truly are gargantuan. Your claim the evidence wasn’t fatally flawed is false. And your claim that “The world’s intelligence agencies all agreed” is absolutely, flat out 100% untrue. Every piece of evidence supplied by the Bush administration was cherry-picked. They simply ignored the evidence that they didn’t like. And when people from the CIA, the UN, and the IAEA raised questions about the evidence Bush did pick, he just ignored those questions too.

Bush and his cronies carried out these deceptions extremely artlessly, and by 2003 these flaws (and many others) were all common knowledge. Bottom line: If I knew about them, then Joe Biden did too. The fact he voted for war regardless can only mean one of two things: either he bought what Bush was selling, in which case he’s dumb as a fucking brick and shouldn’t be President. Or he didn’t buy what Bush was selling but he voted for war anyway because he didn’t want to look like a pussy, in which case death’s too good for him.

Pick one.

Last edited by Unreconstructed Man; 02-07-2020 at 12:30 PM.
  #56  
Old 02-07-2020, 12:41 PM
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For whatever you want to say about the Democrats and Republicans, they both built and sustain their parties from the bottom up. By that I mean they go out and work for candidate for mayor, state senator, governor, et al, up to the House, Senate, and President.

As did, for that matter, the Progressive movements of the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, even if they failed getting to the top.

I don't see Greens, and rarely see Libertarians, trying to work from the base up. Instead they pop up once every four years and call on True Believers to walk away from the parties whose policies and actions affect our lives every day.

Screw ideological purity. You want my vote? Show me you have some sense of how government operates, and that you're invested in local and state politics.
  #57  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:28 PM
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This little cartoon settles the issue:
https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyng...TpXhnrYUGRwN5c
  #58  
Old 02-14-2020, 05:11 PM
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I just realized that this discussion basically ignores the impact of the Electoral College. If you're a Democrat in TX and are dissatisfied with the Democratic nominee, vote for Nader or Stein or Bugs Bunny. If you're one in MI, WI or PA and you do that, you are part of the problem.
  #59  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by E-DUB View Post
I just realized that this discussion basically ignores the impact of the Electoral College. If you're a Democrat in TX and are dissatisfied with the Democratic nominee, vote for Nader or Stein or Bugs Bunny. If you're one in MI, WI or PA and you do that, you are part of the problem.
TX may just be in play.

But if you are in CA, go ahead and vote for anyone but trump.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...ent/Texas.html

In one poll, trump beats Joe by a single point. Sanders by 2.

Last edited by DrDeth; 02-14-2020 at 09:17 PM.
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