View Poll Results: How will Trump's behaviour change if the senate acquits him?
Trump will be LESS likely to commit further wrongdoing of the sort he was impeached for. 3 2.05%
There will be NO CHANGE in Trump's likelihood to commit further wrongdoing of the sort he was impeached for. 31 21.23%
Trump will be MORE likely to commit further wrongdoing of the sort he was impeached for. 104 71.23%
The question is moot, as I don't believe Trump committed any wrongdoing to begin with. 8 5.48%
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 01-30-2020, 04:58 AM
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What effect would an acquittal have on Trump's future behaviour?


This poll question is directed primarily to those who believe that the actions of Donald Trump that led to his impeachment constitute some sort of wrongdoing (even if you don't necessarily believe that this level of wrongdoing warrants impeachment or conviction). But in case you believe that Trump didn't do anything wrong at all, I've added a poll option for this, and you're still welcome to take part in the discussion.

The question is as follows: Assuming the senate votes to acquit, what effect will the entire impeachment process and trial ultimely have on Trump's future conduct? Will the increased public scrutiny and criticism of his actions have any corrective or at least preventative effect, making him less likely to risk committing similar malfeasance in the future? Or will he see the acquittal as a validation of his past behaviour, emboldening him to do this sort of thing again with the expectation of impunity? Or will the impeachment and trial have no effect whatsoever on his prospects for recidivism—that is, he may or may not choose to reoffend, but the past impeachment proceedings won't be a factor in his decision?

More generally, what effect would an acquittal have on the behaviour of future presidents?
  #2  
Old 01-30-2020, 05:46 AM
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Given that he made the Ukraine call the day after he proclaimed exoneration from the Mueller report, I think it’s safe to say we already know the answer.
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Old 01-30-2020, 08:25 AM
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After next week I’d avoid 5th Ave.
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Old 01-30-2020, 08:37 AM
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Given that he made the Ukraine call the day after he proclaimed exoneration from the Mueller report, I think it’s safe to say we already know the answer.
This.

The Mueller report was released. This included Volume 1 Section 4 which was around 100 pages detailing numerous acts of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian operatives. Trump saw this, shouted, "No collusion," and immediately started seeking aid from a different foreign power for the 2020 election.
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Old 01-30-2020, 09:11 AM
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Just imagine how unhinged he'll be if he gets a second term and doesn't have to worry about getting reelected.
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Old 01-30-2020, 09:11 AM
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After next week I’d avoid 5th Ave.
I’m using that one!
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  #7  
Old 01-30-2020, 09:42 AM
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Corporations are going to be lining up to give him money to remove the EPA entirely.

Federal land will open up to any opportunistic asshole with a checkbook. Wildlife preserves, wilderness areas and National Monuments will begin to disappear.

Putin's whispers to him will become shouts and demands.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:14 AM
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I would not be surprised at all if certain polling stations are "shut down in the national interest". Now that it will have been made clear by arguments in the Senate that "National Interest" is exactly the same as "Whatever Trump Needs to Do To Get Elected".

It's not too strong to say that this upcoming vote in the Senate is a vote for changing the system of government to one of dictatorship. If the dictator can do anything he wants to get elected, (because it's in the "National Interest"), and there can be no investigation or oversight whatsoever about what actions the dictator takes, since nothing he does can ever be illegal.... Then the dictator has carte blanche to completely run the elections, jail his opponents or simply eliminate elections altogether.

This is the path Senate Republicans are not only choosing - but promoting.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:51 PM
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I voted no change. As far as I can see, Trump has never believed the rules that other people have to follow apply to him. A Senate acquittal won't tell him anything he doesn't already believe is true.
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Old 01-30-2020, 01:16 PM
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No change. Trump will always do what benefits Trump and that’s that.
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Old 01-30-2020, 01:29 PM
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I voted "no change" because the premise assumes Trump was feeling some threat of consequences in the event of a conviction / removal. While he certainly reacts angrily, I think that's more a generic bullying template than a considered response to circumstance. In other words, I don't think he consciously believes in the possibility that others could keep him in check. So an acquittal is vindication, a conviction is injustice... I just don't think he has the capacity to change his behaviour at this point.
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Old 01-30-2020, 03:00 PM
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I think he will seek revenge on any and all who he perceives as having betrayed him. Therefore, he will be emboldened to act with impunity. Especially so if he wins the election, which he will consider the ultimate vindication and carte blanche.
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Old 01-30-2020, 03:11 PM
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Just imagine how unhinged he'll be if he gets a second term and doesn't have to worry about getting reelected.
And has seen that the Republicans will let him run with acting heads of everything, in defiance of the Advise and Consent rule of the Constitution, and have put it down in black that ignoring all oversight from Congress is allowable, and that the base will back him regardless of how brazen he is....

Gonna be fun times.

The Republicans are the frog in the slowly heating pot of water.
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Old 01-30-2020, 03:14 PM
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The Republicans are the frog in the slowly heating pot of water.
Stick a fork in 'em.
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  #15  
Old 01-30-2020, 03:27 PM
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He'll mellow
  #16  
Old 01-30-2020, 04:41 PM
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Trump will be less likely to re-offend. Acquitted, the whole hassle and process of impeachment was/is still a stress to him, just like how an acquitted defendant doesn't relish being dragged back in front of court again in the future.
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Old 01-30-2020, 06:04 PM
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Trump will be less likely to re-offend.
Aw, ZING!

Wait... you aren't serious, right?
  #18  
Old 01-30-2020, 09:22 PM
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Trump will be less likely to re-offend. Acquitted, the whole hassle and process of impeachment was/is still a stress to him, just like how an acquitted defendant doesn't relish being dragged back in front of court again in the future.
You're talking about the man who went from one failure to another, larger failure, one after another until he was $2.5 billion in debt and completely blackballed from any bank in the country.
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Old 01-31-2020, 01:14 PM
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You missed an obvious option:

Trump will become completely unhinged and find new crimes to commit since he now feels immune from all consequences.
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Old 01-31-2020, 07:10 PM
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Trump added to his Muslim ban: Nigeria, Myanmar, Eritrea, Kyrgyzstan, Sudan and Tanzania added to his restricted travel list. Dollars to dust motes he has no business connections in any of those countries. BTW, Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.

As I recall, one of his arguments in court for the ban was that it was to be temporary, 90 days. We're now approaching three years. Just another Trump lie. He's going to go nuts.
  #21  
Old 01-31-2020, 07:37 PM
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No change. He’s so volatile and unpredictable to begin with, that there never were any limits in his mind. The only limitations were how much his handlers could reign him in. Plus, if he were re-elected, I think he’d have many Republican deserters in Congress. They are behind him to help prop themselves up in 2020. Luckily with the term limit, they will no longer have that use for him, and thus go back to pretending they are decent people.
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  #22  
Old 01-31-2020, 08:18 PM
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I voted 'less likely', for the reason that it seems clear that Trump had no idea he was stepping over a line. He made the comments on a phone call with 20 people listening. He immediately released the transcript, thinking it showed him to be completely innocent.

So, he probably won't make that mistake again. The next time he wants to do a questionable deal, he'll take more steps to hide it.
  #23  
Old 01-31-2020, 08:30 PM
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I voted 'less likely', for the reason that it seems clear that Trump had no idea he was stepping over a line. He made the comments on a phone call with 20 people listening. He immediately released the transcript, thinking it showed him to be completely innocent.

So, he probably won't make that mistake again. The next time he wants to do a questionable deal, he'll take more steps to hide it.
Wait, that's basically "no change, but he'll be sneakier".
  #24  
Old 01-31-2020, 08:34 PM
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I voted 'less likely'....... The next time he wants to do a questionable deal, he'll take more steps to hide it.
Then your answer isn’t really “less likely”.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:48 PM
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"Less likely to get caught" I guess. I'd dispute that, he's sloppy as hell and arrogant doesn't begin to describe T's approach.

Last edited by squeegee; 01-31-2020 at 09:49 PM.
  #26  
Old 01-31-2020, 09:53 PM
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I guess I'll say "no change" because I think his propensity to do wrong is currently already at the theoretical maximum.
  #27  
Old 01-31-2020, 10:01 PM
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Then your answer isn’t really “less likely”.
I guess I meant "less likely to do the same thing". By which I just meant he'll be sneakier or more careful next time.
  #28  
Old 01-31-2020, 11:53 PM
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I guess I'll say "no change" because I think his propensity to do wrong is currently already at the theoretical maximum.
No. While the United States government is fine with putting children in concentration camps and encouraging disease, it isn't actually putting them to death yet. The Republican can't hit bottom because they are the bottom, but there's plenty of territory left to explore right where they are now.
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:56 AM
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It's absolutely going to embolden Trump to behave more like an autocrat. But keep in mind that others now have the skin of their own asses in the vortex of Ukrainian and Russian politics: Bill Barr is involved. Mike Pompeo is involved. Republican senators are involved. I'm guessing that in some cases, it wasn't just Trump who committed crimes - there are likely a lot of people who could be legitimately prosecuted should the government fall into the hands of someone who actually believes that the rule of law should prevail once again. They have every reason to keep their opposition out of power, and not just this election but permanently. And they will do whatever they think they can get away with.
  #30  
Old 02-01-2020, 09:15 AM
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I voted no change. As far as I can see, Trump has never believed the rules that other people have to follow apply to him. A Senate acquittal won't tell him anything he doesn't already believe is true.
In his defence....do they?
We have been saying since 2015 that even 1/1024th of the stuff he has pulled with derail any other candidate

As the Daily Show said years ago.
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Old 02-01-2020, 09:17 AM
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You're talking about the man who went from one failure to another, larger failure, one after another until he was $2.5 billion in debt and completely blackballed from any bank in the country.
.....and ended up somehow hosting the most popular show on TV, based on him being a success and then being elected President of the US.

If I believed in past lives I would say the Don has been a Saint in the last 25.
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Old 02-01-2020, 09:23 AM
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Double Post.

Last edited by AK84; 02-01-2020 at 09:27 AM.
  #33  
Old 02-01-2020, 10:13 AM
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Trump Unfettered and Unhinged


Trump always tests the limits. Now there are no limits. Congress has lost the power of impeachment.

There are no boundaries around Trump. He will use the FBI for political opposition research. He can accept emoluments from foreign governments. He can accept election assistance from foreign governments. He can suppress and bias the media. Trump, Barr and Pompeo are an unassailable Triumvirate.
  #34  
Old 02-01-2020, 10:30 AM
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Just imagine how unhinged he'll be if he gets a second term and doesn't have to worry about getting reelected.
What makes you think that? Why let a mere constitutional amendment stop him or his party?
  #35  
Old 02-01-2020, 11:09 AM
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I voted 'less likely', for the reason that it seems clear that Trump had no idea he was stepping over a line. He made the comments on a phone call with 20 people listening. He immediately released the transcript, thinking it showed him to be completely innocent.

So, he probably won't make that mistake again. The next time he wants to do a questionable deal, he'll take more steps to hide it.
Not likely. What he will glean from this is that he did not step over a line, in fact, there is no line that is too far for him to cross. He will continue to flaunt his abuses of power, secure in the knowledge that the republicans will support him in it.

Now, if the senate voted like 65 to convict, then maybe, maybe he'd think that he'd barely gotten away with it, and tone it down, but with the vast majority of the republican party endorsing his behavior, what possible reason would he have for putting up even the thinnest veil of decency?

Next time he abuses his office to go after political opponents, he will make sure that everyone knows about it, he will make sure that anyone how dares oppose him knows that they will face the entirety of the US government as their political opponent. Because that's what fascists do.
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Old 02-01-2020, 11:34 AM
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Trump always tests the limits. Now there are no limits. Congress has lost the power of impeachment.

There are no boundaries around Trump. He will use the FBI for political opposition research. He can accept emoluments from foreign governments. He can accept election assistance from foreign governments. He can suppress and bias the media. Trump, Barr and Pompeo are an unassailable Triumvirate.
He could threaten martial law imposed against states or cities that vote against him, and the Republican party will cheer him on.

An acquittal unifies the republicans in their hatred of their fellow citizens. As much as they love "liberal tears", that's not enough. They don't just want to see us shedding tears over the destruction of our country, they want to see us shed our blood as well.
  #37  
Old 02-01-2020, 12:39 PM
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It's likely Trump will start with the low hanging fruit: stop reimbursement for political use of Air Force One; prune the press pool to Trump allies; boycott any debates; make some controversial pardons.

Then I believe he wants a show stopper. Something like he could deed the BLM ranch to Bundy; he could rescind all government payments (in lieu of taxes) to counties in Nevada and New Mexico unless they vote Republican; I'm sure there are other/better ways to declare war on a blue state that will be brought to his attention. Like k9b's declaring martial law in a blue state. He might even start big and take on California. Trump has the advantage, he can do anything he wants, California has to respond through his courts.

Since he feels his re-election is in the best interest of the US, he can do anything.

Last edited by Crane; 02-01-2020 at 12:42 PM.
  #38  
Old 02-01-2020, 01:08 PM
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.....and ended up somehow hosting the most popular show on TV, based on him being a success and then being elected President of the US.
Different skills. Different causes.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 02-01-2020 at 01:09 PM.
  #39  
Old 02-01-2020, 01:30 PM
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Anyone who thinks less likely or no change, where have you been? Trump is a destroyer. He has done, is doing, and will do anything he thinks he can get away with, and even some things he might not be sure he can get away with. He will see this acquittal as a big bright green light leading onto the highway of Whatever The Hell I Want To Do. The perverted Dershowitz “Doctrine” has turbocharged the Trump-mobile and it’s peddle to the metal time. As he flies past the Republican highway patrol, who will be, as they have been heretofore, stuffing their faces in the donut shops, kicking around a little kid who’s just asking for directions, or cowering under their cruisers, what will be going through Trump’s head? Maybe something like “What are they going to do? Impeach me?!”

I know it’s been said before, but it always sounded a bit hyperbolic and histrionic. This time, however, we really have taken a hard right turn towards fascism.
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Old 02-01-2020, 05:25 PM
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He has done, is doing, and will do anything he thinks he can get away with, and even some things he might not be sure he can get away with.
Exactly. That's why I voted "no change"—he is already doing what he can. A more compentent villain with Trump's power, in other words the next Republican president, will be awesome (in the sense of "inspiring profound dread," not in the sense of "good").
  #41  
Old 02-01-2020, 05:39 PM
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The very first thing Trump, Barr, Pompeo and others will do is to continue with what they've been doing: draining the federal bureaucracy of civic-minded civil servants. You wanna work for Trump's CIA? Wanna work for Trump's FBI, DoJ, or DoD? Show them you want to be there. Show loyalty. I don't mean he can necessarily drive all of the millions of individual employees out, just the influential ones - the ones who supervise the rest. They'll change the culture.

And once you break that culture of public service and replace it with fealty, corruption, and quid pro quo, it's broken for a long time.
  #42  
Old 02-02-2020, 04:52 PM
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The title of the thread taken literally would be a comparison between acquittal and removal from office, the answer of which is obviously he couldn't commit after removal. The OP talks about the entire impeachment process.

It seems fairly obvious to me that going through this process will lead the apparatus of government to try to avoid similarity in malfeasance in the future. They'll have learned a bit about the flaws in their communications system, weeded out even more of the people who might blow the whistle. The rank and file, if not Trump, will have learned how better to cover up their misdeeds during this pressure test.

I'm amazed at how optimistic others on this board seem to be by giving the second two responses - that it won't get worse, or that his administration will simply repeat more of the same level of corruption. I think they will be less likely to do the same thing again- now they've tested for leaks and gotten some practice in they will be more bold and blatant.
  #43  
Old 02-02-2020, 05:16 PM
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I don't see anything in the Constitution about not being impeached twice for the same offense - maybe the Dems will have another go at it if and when Bolton's book comes out.

In answer to the OP, no change in anyone's behavior - not Trump, not the Dems, not nobody.

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  #44  
Old 02-03-2020, 01:33 PM
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Then I believe he wants a show stopper.
It feels self-evident that some Republican governor will get the National Guard (and hey, why not some militia members) out to "protect" voting places from in-person "voter fraud."

Last edited by OsoPolar; 02-03-2020 at 01:34 PM.
  #45  
Old 02-11-2020, 05:46 PM
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You missed an obvious option:

Trump will become completely unhinged and find new crimes to commit since he now feels immune from all consequences.
I think I've been proven correct on this one. The orange one is going ape. Way beyond what he's done in the past. His evil nature has been given free rein.
  #46  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAppleBucky
Trump will become completely unhinged and find new crimes to commit since he now feels immune from all consequences.
I think I've been proven correct on this one. The orange one is going ape. Way beyond what he's done in the past. His evil nature has been given free rein.
Could you elaborate on these "new crimes"? The only recent scandal I've read about has been the firing of impeachment witnesses. As discussed in other threads here, this may be reprehensible but it's completely legal.
  #47  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:24 AM
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I voted no change. As far as I can see, Trump has never believed the rules that other people have to follow apply to him. A Senate acquittal won't tell him anything he doesn't already believe is true.
It's looking like I may have been wrong. It appears we're only now seeing what Trump is like when he feels no sense of restraint.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:08 AM
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Banana Republicans


Psychonaut,

Of course it's all legal. There is nothing illegal about Trump using his office to give relief to his political friends and punish his political enemies. But, he an McConnel have day jobs, they're supposed to be governing.
  #49  
Old 02-12-2020, 11:33 AM
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I voted more likely and was proven right. This business with the Roger Stone sentencing shows how corrupt both him and Barr are. I don't see what difference the sentence would have made, the fucker is going to be pardoned anyway.
  #50  
Old 02-12-2020, 11:48 AM
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I voted more likely as well because Trump is a petty vindictive son of a bitch and Republicans don't have the integrity to do anything about it because Trump is giving them their way.
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