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Old 02-01-2020, 08:31 PM
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American police departments and the Democratic Party


Why is there such a disconnect between American police departments and the Democratic Party, especially white police officers and the Democratic Party. The last time the FOP endorsed a Democratic presidential nominee was Bill Clinton in 1996.

Why are a lot, not all, but a lot of white male cops in the Northeast and Midwest Republican?
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:51 PM
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Do you have any evidence for your claims, or are you just making shit up?
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:56 PM
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Because cops have zero interest in being held accountable for their exercise of authority held through the public trust and Tepublicans will back them up so long as Their victims are black or part of some other disfavored group.
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:57 PM
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"In the northeast and the midwest". OK, buddy. What's your real question?
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Old 02-01-2020, 09:15 PM
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White male cops tend to be authoritarian, hyper masculine, low in empathy and believe in negative repercussions for bad behavior all of which align with the conservatives.

What does surprise me is when cops vote for Republicans who declare war on their unions. I remember when cops supported the gop governor in Wisconsin then got upset when he declared war on their union. What did they expect?
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Old 02-01-2020, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Yankees 1996 Champs View Post
Why is there such a disconnect between American police departments and the Democratic Party, especially white police officers and the Democratic Party. The last time the FOP endorsed a Democratic presidential nominee was Bill Clinton in 1996.

Why are a lot, not all, but a lot of white male cops in the Northeast and Midwest Republican?
Why do teachers unions, who are overwhelmingly college educated always support Democrats?

Itís called demographics. Police officers, even well paid, tend to come from blue collar backgrounds and are often as much from the school of hard knocks as they are from colleges. Even with an degree, itís often from night school, part time, or community college.

I donít know of any public school system that has many teachers without a 4 year degree.
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Old 02-02-2020, 10:46 AM
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White male cops tend to be authoritarian, hyper masculine, low in empathy and believe in negative repercussions for bad behavior all of which align with the conservatives.

What does surprise me is when cops vote for Republicans who declare war on their unions. I remember when cops supported the gop governor in Wisconsin then got upset when he declared war on their union. What did they expect?
Got it.
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Old 02-02-2020, 10:53 AM
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college grads in general are mostly Dems. On the other hand it used to be high school grads or HS dropouts voted for Dems but that's not true now. People with grad degrees also mostly vote for Dems
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:57 AM
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I think it's that the maintenance of law and order is a fundamentally conservative activity (it's basically a form of maintaining the status quo in a lot of ways), and those who self-select for it tend to be more conservative than the general population. Combine that with the fact that most police officers usually originate from blue collar backgrounds, and you have a recipe for police officers being pretty conservative.
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Old 02-03-2020, 04:48 PM
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Wait. Despite the ten million headlines we've read over the years, nobody is willing to say that police forces are generally fascist bastions of racism?
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Old 02-03-2020, 04:54 PM
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Wait. Despite the ten million headlines we've read over the years, nobody is willing to say that police forces are generally fascist bastions of racism?
Um, no, because I donít believe it.
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Old 02-03-2020, 04:57 PM
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Well, which party more supports the "First Responder = Hero" mythos?
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Old 02-03-2020, 05:15 PM
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Sounds to me like you have an idea. What part of your previous post is unclear to you?

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Originally Posted by Yankees 1996 Champs View Post
Exactly. Democrats run on a platform of victimhood and "white, police, this, police are evil, etc.

Yes, white supremacy is prevalent in America and there is a policing problem, but the way how a lot of far-left people demonize police day in and day out doesn't bode well.

The Republicans run on a platform of "immigrants this, immigrants that". Climate deniers, union busters, etc.

The Democratic Party has a party of tribes and coalitions but with a bigger demographic share in the future.

Last edited by Chingon; 02-03-2020 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 02-03-2020, 05:24 PM
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...
What does surprise me is when cops vote for Republicans who declare war on their unions. I remember when cops supported the gop governor in Wisconsin then got upset when he declared war on their union. What did they expect?
This is where the disconnect is for me. I understand that a lot (but not all) of them are self selected macho authoritarians but their unions take good care of them, often defending them even when they don't deserve it. Yet they vote for the anti-union party.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:22 AM
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This is where the disconnect is for me. I understand that a lot (but not all) of them are self selected macho authoritarians but their unions take good care of them, often defending them even when they don't deserve it. Yet they vote for the anti-union party.
because the Republicans support their union along with Firefighters but try to dismantle most others, like Reagan in the 1980's taking apart the Air Traffic Controllers, you know, those lazy, leeches trying to make sure your plane takes off and lands safely.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
White male cops tend to be authoritarian, hyper masculine, low in empathy and believe in negative repercussions for bad behavior all of which align with the conservatives.

What does surprise me is when cops vote for Republicans who declare war on their unions. I remember when cops supported the gop governor in Wisconsin then got upset when he declared war on their union. What did they expect?
Fun Fact: Scott Walker's Act 10 famously EXCLUDED law enforcement and fire fighters because the GOP are hypocrites.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:25 AM
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Do you have any evidence for your claims, or are you just making shit up?
it's called common sense, next you'll tell me it's news to you that the Teachers Unions support Democrats or that the vast majority of
Farmers support Republicans.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:34 AM
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What does surprise me is when cops vote for Republicans who declare war on their unions. I remember when cops supported the gop governor in Wisconsin then got upset when he declared war on their union. What did they expect?
I don't understand it either. I never understood the poor or lower middle class Hispanics who loved Joe Arpaio, either.

On the other hand, Santa Cruz county's sheriff is a Democrat, and so is retired Pima county sheriff Clarence Dupnik, who stated that SB 1070 was crap.
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Old 02-04-2020, 03:02 PM
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Look at California and especially Proposition 47 which was passed by democrats which reclassified any theft of anything less than $950 down from being a felony to... well basically nothing. This has lead to massive problems with shoplifting and the police cannot do anything about it.

Also in San Francisco democrats tell illegals how to avoid ICE and tell their police to not cooperate with ICE.

Also lets say their is a riot in a place like Ferguson Missouri. Democrat politicians always take the side of the rioters against police.
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Old 02-04-2020, 06:01 PM
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Cite for the claim about Democratic politicians and hypothetical riots in suspiciously random cities, please. A cite should be easy, you used plural politicians and said always.
(Hint, don't google "Daley", "riot", "support" etc.)

Last edited by bobot; 02-04-2020 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 02-04-2020, 06:22 PM
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Sounds to me like you have an idea. What part of your previous post is unclear to you?
Yes, I believe that the far-far left of the Democratic Party does demonize cops way too much.

Yes, they are bad cops in a complex system, but it does not mean that every cop is evil or should be "Kill the pig, etc".

That undermines the reform that is desperately needed.

The Republican Party exploits it and that is why so many white male cops have this GOP vibe.....even in urban cities you can sense vibes some of the cops are GOP-friendly.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-go...s-a-love-story
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Old 02-04-2020, 06:26 PM
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Yes, I believe that the far-far left of the Democratic Party does demonize cops way too much.
Iím not sure itís fair to judge the Democratic Party by the ďfar-far left.Ē
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Old 02-04-2020, 06:30 PM
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Look at California and especially Proposition 47 which was passed by democrats which reclassified any theft of anything less than $950 down from being a felony to... well basically nothing. This has lead to massive problems with shoplifting and the police cannot do anything about it.

Also in San Francisco democrats tell illegals how to avoid ICE and tell their police to not cooperate with ICE.

Also lets say their is a riot in a place like Ferguson Missouri. Democrat politicians always take the side of the rioters against police.
I donít know much about California politics these days. Was that law passed to make phone thefts a misdemeanor? Again, not knowing California, I have no idea how much it would prosecute a felony case against a teen who gets caught snatching someoneís phone out of their hands.
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Old 02-04-2020, 06:33 PM
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Look at California and especially Proposition 47 which was passed by democrats which reclassified any theft of anything less than $950 down from being a felony to... well basically nothing. This has lead to massive problems with shoplifting and the police cannot do anything about it.

Also in San Francisco democrats tell illegals how to avoid ICE and tell their police to not cooperate with ICE.

Also lets say their is a riot in a place like Ferguson Missouri. Democrat politicians always take the side of the rioters against police.
From your own link:
Quote:
An "A" priority call implies there is imminent danger to life, major property damage, and/or the suspect is still in the area and may be "reasonably" apprehended. "B" priority calls signify there is the potential for damage to property, the suspect may still be in the area, and the crime just occurred. A call is designated as "C" priority when there is no present danger to life or property, the suspect is not in the area, or the crime scene is protected. It appears most of the shoplifting incidents in Hayes Valley fall in the "C" category.
Where do you think shoplifting should fall?

Edit: Also, what does that really have to do with supporting police? Do cops get paid more for a felony arrest?

Last edited by enalzi; 02-04-2020 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 02-04-2020, 06:45 PM
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Cite for the claim about Democratic politicians and hypothetical riots in suspiciously random cities, please. A cite should be easy, you used plural politicians and said always.
(Hint, don't google "Daley", "riot", "support" etc.)
https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/27/us/ba...est/index.html

Mayor of Baltimore in 2015: Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, Democrat

https://www.cnn.com/2016/08/14/us/mi...ing/index.html

Mayor of Milwaukee in 2016: Tom Barrett, Democrat

They let the riots get out of hand, in my opinion.
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Old 02-04-2020, 06:57 PM
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Yes, I believe that the far-far left of the Democratic Party does demonize cops way too much.



Yes, they are bad cops in a complex system, but it does not mean that every cop is evil or should be "Kill the pig, etc".



That undermines the reform that is desperately needed.



The Republican Party exploits it and that is why so many white male cops have this GOP vibe.....even in urban cities you can sense vibes some of the cops are GOP-friendly.



https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-go...s-a-love-story
Well it's always nice when you can answer your own question.
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Old 02-04-2020, 07:01 PM
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Well it's always nice when you can answer your own question.
I want to have a discussion on this; part of the reason why Trump got elected was because of police support

Blue collar police officers should be part of the Democratic Party's base.....I wonder if black cops vote Republican

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...2nO/story.html
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Old 02-04-2020, 07:08 PM
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https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/27/us/ba...est/index.html

Mayor of Baltimore in 2015: Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, Democrat
I asked someone else the question, but hey let's roll with it.

"Too many people have spent generations building up this city for it to be destroyed by thugs who -- in a very senseless way -- are trying to tear down what so many have fought for," Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake said.
Is that where the Democrats always side with rioters and oppose the police?

Since it's you here defending what the other posted, I'll remind you that the other used the word "always". Please hang up and try your call again later


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https://www.cnn.com/2016/08/14/us/mi...ing/index.html

Mayor of Milwaukee in 2016: Tom Barrett, Democrat
OK, let's click the second link. Is this the place where the Democratic politician sides with thr rioters over the police?

"If you love your son, if you love your daughter, text them, call them, pull them by the ears and get them home. Get them home right now before more damage is done," Barrett said.
"I know this neighborhood very, very well. And there are a lot of really really good people who live in this area -- in the Sherman Park area, who can't stand this violence."

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They let the riots get out of hand, in my opinion.
Cool opinion that has nothing to do with the post you quoted.
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Old 02-04-2020, 07:33 PM
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From your own link:


Where do you think shoplifting should fall?

Edit: Also, what does that really have to do with supporting police? Do cops get paid more for a felony arrest?
So your saying some private business owner should just stand there and let people come in and rob? Oh real nice.

Did you even read the article? It said shopkeepers in SF are getting robbed blind, that calling the police is worthless because they have dumbed down the law against shoplifting, and its the fault of democrats.

I dont know where you live but around here shoplifters are arrested and charged.

Ok, so maybe I exaggerated a bit. Shoplifting under prop 47 was dropped from being a felony to a misdemeanor. So what does that mean? A ticket? Obviously getting a misdemeanor doesnt scare thugs.

And hell yes its about police. Its about the politicians supporting police (or not) so they can do their job which is to serve and protect.
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Old 02-04-2020, 07:39 PM
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OK, let's click the second link. Is this the place where the Democratic politician sides with thr rioters over the police?

"If you love your son, if you love your daughter, text them, call them, pull them by the ears and get them home. Get them home right now before more damage is done," Barrett said.
"I know this neighborhood very, very well. And there are a lot of really really good people who live in this area -- in the Sherman Park area, who can't stand this violence."



Cool opinion that has nothing to do with the post you quoted.
Oh wow, Goody goody. Telling people to call people on the phone and tell them to go home. Oh boy, THAT will do it.

How about a mayor saying rioting will NOT be tolerated and ORDERING people to go the hell home or face arrest?
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Old 02-04-2020, 07:42 PM
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That's taking the rioters side? I don't buy it, but I suppose I see the point you're making. Or the other guy's making. I certainly don't agree with it.

Last edited by bobot; 02-04-2020 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 02-04-2020, 07:44 PM
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The FOP is only one organization. Itís also not a union although on a local level it can act as one.
President is not the only political race that receives endorsements.
Various police unions often endorse candidates from the Democratic Party.

Like all unions police unions endorse the candidate they believe will do the best for them. Thatís often different on a national level than on a local level. And sure they sometimes get it wrong and endorse someone that does not act in the best interest of their members.
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:57 AM
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Like all unions police unions endorse the candidate they believe will do the best for them. Thatís often different on a national level than on a local level. And sure they sometimes get it wrong and endorse someone that does not act in the best interest of their members.
I don't give a rats ass who my union prefers. And I make that abundantly clear to them when they call and inquire if I am going to vote according to their endorsements. I vote on my own personal politics and positions on issues.
Most of the time their picks are close to matching mine. But when they are not I do not change my vote because of who they like.
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:32 AM
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I don't give a rats ass who my union prefers. And I make that abundantly clear to them when they call and inquire if I am going to vote according to their endorsements. I vote on my own personal politics and positions on issues.
Most of the time their picks are close to matching mine. But when they are not I do not change my vote because of who they like.
Thatís true of everyone in every union. They arenít going into the polls with you. Itís a game that every union does to try and get whatís best for their members.
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:44 AM
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Thatís true of everyone in every union. They arenít going into the polls with you. Itís a game that every union does to try and get whatís best for their members.
Except it works on some people. I know people in the trades who will only vote for who their union endorses.
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:42 AM
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Suit sniffing and authority supporting aren't really Democratic things. Power hasn't treated the powerless very well over this country's history.
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Old 02-05-2020, 09:30 AM
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Suit sniffing and authority supporting aren't really Democratic things. Power hasn't treated the powerless very well over this country's history.
Democrats like the power of authority and big government to push government programs and control, What are you talking about?
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:17 AM
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Democrats like the power of authority and big government to push government programs and control, What are you talking about?
That's an effective argument that the American right has long used but, when brought to the light of day, we can all see right through it. Dems like a federal government of whatever size that uses its power to enhance and improve the rights of the least powerful among us. A strong government that does that does indeed seem overreaching to those who have carved out their kingdoms at the micro-level. The oligarchs who answer to no one and their peace-keeping forces are much more of a threat to the average Joe than a strong liberal government looking out for those most at risk of exploitation.

Like many conservatives, you appear to have sniffed the suits for so long that you've forgotten what the smell is like and what it represents.

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Old 02-05-2020, 11:23 AM
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Also in San Francisco democrats tell illegals how to avoid ICE and tell their police to not cooperate with ICE.
Absent a massive effort, undocumented aliens are going to be living in San Francisco and all the other "sanctuary" cities whether you like it or not. Many police departments and local prosecutors support not working with ICE too closely because they don't want to have a large segment of the population who equate the local police with ICE and won't report crimes, come forward as witnesses, etc. Cite. Another cite. Yet another cite. But of course you know better than those law enforcement officials.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:43 PM
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American police departments and the Democratic Party


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Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
Look at California and especially Proposition 47 which was passed by democrats which reclassified any theft of anything less than $950 down from being a felony to... well basically nothing. This has lead to massive problems with shoplifting and the police cannot do anything about it.




From what I can tell, theft of an item worth less than $950 was reclassified as a misdemeanor, not nothing. And what was the threshold before Prop 47 ? Surely stealing a $5 item was not a felony


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by doreen; 02-05-2020 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:28 PM
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Police departments routinely, intentionally, hire people with lower IQ scores.

https://reason.com/2013/05/01/court-...ple-from-beco/

Conservatives (excluding libertarians) tend to earn lower IQ scores.

https://reason.com/2014/06/13/are-co...than-liberals/
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:05 PM
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Police departments routinely, intentionally, hire people with lower IQ scores.

https://reason.com/2013/05/01/court-...ple-from-beco/

Conservatives (excluding libertarians) tend to earn lower IQ scores.

https://reason.com/2014/06/13/are-co...than-liberals/
True story: looking for somwhat of a career shift, I applied to a department that seemed like a good fit. Full LE authority, but more of a parks-oriented organization; not your typical city PD.

Got rejected for scoring too high.
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Old 02-05-2020, 11:29 PM
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Police departments routinely, intentionally, hire people with lower IQ scores.

https://reason.com/2013/05/01/court-...ple-from-beco/

Conservatives (excluding libertarians) tend to earn lower IQ scores.

https://reason.com/2014/06/13/are-co...than-liberals/
No one is smarter than anyone

Everyone has their own views.

Yes, police departments usually hire people with lower IQ scores, but the job is about enforcing laws and public safety (protecting and serving the communities, as they should)
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Old 02-05-2020, 11:34 PM
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"In the northeast and the midwest". OK, buddy. What's your real question?
Yes, even Hillary Clinton had a rocky relationship with the NYPD when she ran for Senate in 2000 and when she was a U.S. Senator.

https://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/...lary_Crime.htm

https://www.nycpba.org/press-release...es-rick-lazio/

https://apnews.com/fd397356114a06b1f60469576047f0d8


Bill Clinton was too centrist for the Democratic Party, especially with the 1994 crime bill, but he got the endorsement of the FOP against Bob Dole in 1996.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...243-story.html
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Old 02-06-2020, 11:49 AM
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Democrats like the power of authority and big government to push government programs and control, What are you talking about?
Republicans like that too. "Big government and pushing government programs" has enthusiastic bipartisan support. The parties merely disagree on the details of how that power and authority should be wielded and against whom.
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Old 02-06-2020, 12:02 PM
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My personal opinion based on years of observation and with no official cite or statistics is that, traditionally, the liberal dominated Democratic Party is markedly more concerned with individual rights, especially the rights of minorities, than the conservative dominated Republican Party. Since there is now ample video evidence of police abuse to back up claims that used to be unsupported before the era of cell phones, the police are pictured as being "under attack" by the conservatives because there is a lot of pressure for transparency and reform.
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  #47  
Old 02-06-2020, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Yankees 1996 Champs View Post
Yes, I believe that the far-far left of the Democratic Party does demonize cops way too much.

Yes, they are bad cops in a complex system, but it does not mean that every cop is evil or should be "Kill the pig, etc".

That undermines the reform that is desperately needed.

The Republican Party exploits it and that is why so many white male cops have this GOP vibe.....even in urban cities you can sense vibes some of the cops are GOP-friendly.
When was the last time anybody has said "kill the pig, etc?" 1968?
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Last edited by snfaulkner; 02-06-2020 at 12:09 PM.
  #48  
Old 02-06-2020, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jasmine View Post
My personal opinion based on years of observation and with no official cite or statistics is that, traditionally, the liberal dominated Democratic Party is markedly more concerned with individual rights, especially the rights of minorities, than the conservative dominated Republican Party. Since there is now ample video evidence of police abuse to back up claims that used to be unsupported before the era of cell phones, the police are pictured as being "under attack" by the conservatives because there is a lot of pressure for transparency and reform.
Yes, the Democratic Party is seen as the party of minorities. That is why whenever there is a black Republican, there is outrage.

White men and police don't see the Democrats offering them reasons why they should cast a ballot for them.

Other than that, there should be transparency and police accountability, but the reformers' message gets undercut by stupid people screaming "dead cops".

That plays into the Blue Lives Matter message.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-mo...-for-dead-cops
  #49  
Old 02-06-2020, 12:32 PM
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That's an effective argument that the American right has long used but, when brought to the light of day, we can all see right through it. Dems like a federal government of whatever size that uses its power to enhance and improve the rights of the least powerful among us. A strong government that does that does indeed seem overreaching to those who have carved out their kingdoms at the micro-level. The oligarchs who answer to no one and their peace-keeping forces are much more of a threat to the average Joe than a strong liberal government looking out for those most at risk of exploitation.

Like many conservatives, you appear to have sniffed the suits for so long that you've forgotten what the smell is like and what it represents.
Absent the nonsense about oligarchs and the rich, etc.... I think you're on to something.

At its core, being a cop is about enforcing the laws that are. That doesn't mean making things better for anyone, or applying too much interpretation about why a suspect might be breaking the law, or how the law should be difference. Your job as a cop is to haul them in if they're suspected of breaking the law and let the legal system determine guilt or innocence.

So that right there is a fundamentally conservative activity- someone concerned with improving the lot of others, or righting wrongs, or what-not is, IMO, extremely unlikely to get involved with the part of the legal process whereby the state's force is actually applied to someone who is breaking the law. They're far more likely to end up as a defense attorney, or as some kind of advocate. Meanwhile, for more conservative, law & order types, that IS the sort of career they find attractive in a philosophical sense.
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Old 02-06-2020, 01:16 PM
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Absent the nonsense about oligarchs and the rich, etc.... I think you're on to something.

At its core, being a cop is about enforcing the laws that are. That doesn't mean making things better for anyone, or applying too much interpretation about why a suspect might be breaking the law, or how the law should be difference. Your job as a cop is to haul them in if they're suspected of breaking the law and let the legal system determine guilt or innocence.

So that right there is a fundamentally conservative activity- someone concerned with improving the lot of others, or righting wrongs, or what-not is, IMO, extremely unlikely to get involved with the part of the legal process whereby the state's force is actually applied to someone who is breaking the law. They're far more likely to end up as a defense attorney, or as some kind of advocate. Meanwhile, for more conservative, law & order types, that IS the sort of career they find attractive in a philosophical sense.
That's also why the GOP is still seen as the party of personal responsibility, even with Trump in there. A lot of people don't see liberals as personally responsible people.

However, it does not mean that every cop is a Republican. A lot of them are apolitical.
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