View Poll Results: How fluent are you in IPA?
I did not know IPA existed 24 13.56%
I know of IPA but can't read it 100 56.50%
I can read IPA slowly and with some difficulty 30 16.95%
I can read IPA fluently 23 12.99%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 02-02-2020, 12:26 AM
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Can you read IPA?


The International Phonetic Alphabet is a standardized system of recording the pronunciation of words.

I'm curious how many people have bothered learning IPA. For those of you who have, what was your reason to learn? How long did it take? What method did you use to learn and how fluent would you consider yourself in IPA?
  #2  
Old 02-02-2020, 12:28 AM
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Nope, can't read it. I'm sufficiently interested in words and linguistics that if I had enough free time, I would probably learn just for fun. But it's probably on page 17 of my bucket list, so I doubt I ever will.
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  #3  
Old 02-02-2020, 12:34 AM
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I learned it in high school 45 years ago. I don't remember doing anything special to learn it. It's pretty straightforward. 3/4 of the letters have the same value as they commonly do in English. Occasionally I'll forget one of the vowels that doesn't appear in my dialect and have to look it up. I can't imagine why anyone who has the slightest interest in language wouldn't learn IPA; it's really the only way to understand the pronunciation of a word without hearing it.

BTW, I don't think "fluent" is a good word to describe someone who knows IPA well. You almost never read a continuous passage of text written in IPA. You're almost always just interpreting a single word or two in isolation.
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Old 02-02-2020, 12:45 AM
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I was surprised, on my first trip to Japan 20 years ago, to see it used on some shop signs. Fancy ones, that otherwise would have used English words. As if the Japanese needed a fourth writing system!

Might have been a 1990s fad; I haven't noticed the phenomenon on more recent visits.
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Old 02-02-2020, 01:09 AM
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Nope, can't read it. Never had any reason to learn it.
  #6  
Old 02-02-2020, 02:39 AM
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Never even heard of it. I opened the thread thinking it was about beer or else the A as in Alpha phonetic alphabet
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  #7  
Old 02-02-2020, 05:55 AM
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Nope, and never intend to learn. It annoys me when people bring out the stupid symbols rather than using standard letters to emphasise the difference they're talking about.
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:46 AM
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I could in college (for all the sounds in English anyway; we learned the basics in Linguistics 101). Today, probably not
  #9  
Old 02-02-2020, 07:44 AM
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Know of it, and it is complete gobbledy-gook to me.
  #10  
Old 02-02-2020, 08:26 AM
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I recall having a disagreement on this board a little while ago with someone who insisted that it is worth the time to learn IPA. I disagreed. Pretty much the only place I see it used it Wikipedia, so it isnít like I have an interest in learning the system just for one website.
  #11  
Old 02-02-2020, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Calavera View Post
Nope, and never intend to learn. It annoys me when people bring out the stupid symbols rather than using standard letters to emphasise the difference they're talking about.
There have been many threads where miscommunication and misunderstanding could have been avoided, and much time and aggravation saved, because a sound was being ďobviouslyĒ (to one poster) represented by a ďstandard letter,Ē yet interpreted as a different sound by someone else. (Especially, but not only, when a sound in question is not part of one of the posterís phonemic inventory, or is ďhiddenĒ as an allophone for him/her).

Iím not advocating IPA as always the best solution for this ó often, as you suggest, using ďstandard lettersĒ will suffice ó but sometimes it can be a helpful tool, if at least some of the thread participants have some familiarity with it.

Linking to an audio sample of a sound is easy these days, so maybe thatís the better solution, in many cases. But finding the right link quickly is easier if you know some IPA.
  #12  
Old 02-02-2020, 09:13 AM
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Never hoid of it!
  #13  
Old 02-02-2020, 09:26 AM
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IPA, PBR, MGD. I read them all as long as the labels havenít peeled off in the tub of ice.
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  #14  
Old 02-02-2020, 09:34 AM
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I picked "fluent" but I agree "fluent" is perhaps not the best word for it. I find it helpful in threads discussing pronunciation absent audio samples. It's like how knowing the names of notes or intervals or chords (or having sheet music) helps when discussing the details of how a musical part sounds absent a handy instrument or audio samples.

I initially encountered it in college about 25 years ago in a linguistics class, forgot about it, and then when learning foreign languages, came across it again and again. It was immensely helpful in this regard and avoided a lot of confusion I had with pronunciation charts that assumed certain accents (the example I've brought up before was my book on Hungarian, explaining that kŲszŲnŲm is pronounced KER-ser-nerm, when I knew sure as hell from listening to people that there was no "r" in the sound. I only figured out much later that it was published in the UK and assumed a non-rhotic accent. Some other aspects of the book also did not line up with my Great Lakes accent, so the book was next-to-useless to me for figuring out how Hungarian is pronounced.)

Anyhow, in pronunciation threads, I include both IPA and "standard letters," but it gets to be frustrating when, for one example, maybe half your audience pronounces "aw" and "ah" the same, and you have to spend another sentence or two explaining how they differ (in my accent "Dawn" and "Don" are different vowels.)

IPA is perhaps a bit more useful if you are multilingual and/or have experience with various accents, so you already have an inventory of sounds that goes beyond your own dialect. But it is damned useful for me, and especially so learning how a foreign word is supposed to be pronounced when I don't have access to a native speaker or an audio sample (and, heck, even with the audio sample, it's sometimes easier for me to figure out what's going on by also seeing the IPA.)
  #15  
Old 02-02-2020, 09:35 AM
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Nope, can't read it. Never had any reason to learn it.
This. I pronounce words the way I think they are/should be pronounced.
  #16  
Old 02-02-2020, 09:53 AM
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Never learned IPA.

Most online dictionaries offer a sound clip for pronouncing the word. That's more accurate imho than deciphering IPA.

Library - offers the standard pronunciation and the slang li-berry many people use.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/library

Last edited by aceplace57; 02-02-2020 at 09:55 AM.
  #17  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:05 AM
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I took a course in "Voice & Diction" as an undergrad, thinking it would be a course to help me speak more clearly and project my voice more when speaking to an audience. It wasn't.

IPA was taught and I loved it. I'd grown up with dictionary pronunciation guidelines that had all those annoying diacritical marks and where they'd use one symbol for a sound here and a different symbol for the same sound made in a different context. Example: The a with the two dots over it would be used for that sound but you'd also often encounter an o with a hat over it and it represented the same sound.


The IPA was a fresh approach, with one sound per symbol and one symbol per sound. I don't know why I adored it but I did. Created my own IPA font and learned to type in it. Later developed a database application that would generate characters + codes that I could paste into different contexts (including vBulletin) and they'd render as IPA:

... wʌz ɛ frɛʃ ǝprotʃ wiθ wʊn saɔnd pɚ sImbǝl pɚ saɔnd

ai dont no hwaI aI ǝdord It bʌt aI dId
  #18  
Old 02-02-2020, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Calavera View Post
Nope, and never intend to learn. It annoys me when people bring out the stupid symbols rather than using standard letters to emphasise the difference they're talking about.
Man, I just DO NOT understand sentiments like this. How would you use "standard letters" to, say, demonstrate how a person from London or Liverpool pronounces "bath"? Or how a Dutch speaker pronounces "Amsterdam" or how an Italian speaker pronounces "Venezia"? It's fine to say you're totally uninterested in pronunciation, I get that not everyone is into linguistics, but to say that there's a way to use "standard letters" (as if there's a standard pronunciation of English) is like saying you want to use words rather than musical notation to tell someone how to play a song on the piano.

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Originally Posted by kayaker View Post
This. I pronounce words the way I think they are/should be pronounced.
What do you do when you want to explain to someone how you pronounce a word? (The only reasonable answers I see are either "use IPA" or "I never do that".)
  #19  
Old 02-02-2020, 11:31 AM
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Man, I just DO NOT understand sentiments like this. How would you use "standard letters" to, say, demonstrate how a person from London or Liverpool pronounces "bath"? Or how a Dutch speaker pronounces "Amsterdam" or how an Italian speaker pronounces "Venezia"? It's fine to say you're totally uninterested in pronunciation, I get that not everyone is into linguistics, but to say that there's a way to use "standard letters" (as if there's a standard pronunciation of English) is like saying you want to use words rather than musical notation to tell someone how to play a song on the piano.



What do you do when you want to explain to someone how you pronounce a word? (The only reasonable answers I see are either "use IPA" or "I never do that".)
All of this.

Several of the reactions I see here and in other discussions about the IPA strike me as anti-knowledge, a kind of know-nothingism, full of anger that people are using knowledge that I have stubbornly refused to acquire. It's baffling, especially in a forum dedicated to eradicating ignorance.
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  #20  
Old 02-02-2020, 11:54 AM
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What do you do when you want to explain to someone how you pronounce a word? (The only reasonable answers I see are either "use IPA" or "I never do that".)
It rarely comes up IME. When it does, "rhymes with custard, sort of" works fine for me. Then again, I always think Dawn and Don sound absolutely identical.
  #21  
Old 02-02-2020, 12:19 PM
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had it in a linguistics class more then 40 years ago. Don't remember any of it.
  #22  
Old 02-02-2020, 12:34 PM
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I was taught it back in grade school but when I try to read it in dictionaries/references today it is a struggle.
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Old 02-02-2020, 12:34 PM
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I have heard of it, but am not particularly fluent in it. The closest I have come to using it was when I used to write for an APA and would occasionally respond in SR1 (Spelling Reform 1), which is just using "e" for the short "e" sound wherever it appears (e.g. "ahead" is spelled "ahed").
  #24  
Old 02-02-2020, 01:45 PM
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Several of the reactions I see here and in other discussions about the IPA strike me as anti-knowledge, a kind of know-nothingism, full of anger that people are using knowledge that I have stubbornly refused to acquire. It's baffling, especially in a forum dedicated to eradicating ignorance.
With the exception of "annoyance" in post #7, I see no anger, know-nothingism, or stubbornness in this thread. On the contrary, your post strikes is the one that strikes me as angry: "I'M PISSED THAT YOU AREN'T INTERESTED IN WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN!!!!"
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  #25  
Old 02-02-2020, 01:52 PM
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I'd rather drink IPA.
  #26  
Old 02-02-2020, 01:53 PM
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Learned it in high school, when I learned English. I thought it was kinda standard when learning a foreign language; after all, it's how you get the pronunciation of words from the dictionary. Although I don't read it very well anymore.
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Old 02-02-2020, 01:54 PM
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It rarely comes up IME. When it does, "rhymes with custard, sort of" works fine for me. Then again, I always think Dawn and Don sound absolutely identical.
And they do in your dialect, I'm sure, but they are night-and-day different to about half or more of the US that is not part of the cot-caught merger. And that sort of confusion seems to show up all the time in pronunciation threads. But, even IPA aside, there were two different symbols in the old-timey dictionary pronunciation guides for the vowel in Don and Dawn, too. Merriam-Websters Collegiate Dictionary used a "š" for the "ah" sound and a an "o" with a single dot over it, for example, for the "aw" sound. Other dictionaries, from my memory, may have used other symbols to disambiguate these two sounds. The nice thing about IPA is that it's an international standard, at least, and folks from other language areas can all understand the symbology and not learn a whole new set of symbols (like how in at least American English, ā (a-macron) means "long a" which means /eɪ/ (in English. "Long A" means other things in other languages, which is why I don't like it to describe a vowel sound -- at least without further explanation -- in pronunciation threads.) It's a nice standard way to communicate pronunciation to an international audience, which the Straight Dope is. I mean, I also do it the "quick and dirty" way because I know people are stubborn about this, but I at least also know that some of the non-US posters who are familiar with IPA do appreciate the transcription into IPA (as well as the US posters who are versed in it, as it helps disambiguate sounds from regional dialects.)

Last edited by pulykamell; 02-02-2020 at 01:56 PM.
  #28  
Old 02-02-2020, 02:19 PM
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With the exception of "annoyance" in post #7, I see no anger, know-nothingism, or stubbornness in this thread. On the contrary, your post strikes is the one that strikes me as angry: "I'M PISSED THAT YOU AREN'T INTERESTED IN WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN!!!!"
Thatís all you. Thereís nothing of that in my post.

What bothers me are the repeated suggestions that using IPA is offensive or unwarranted in some way, that people who are using it are doing a disservice or committing an offense. Thereís no call for being annoyed at seeing something that is new to you. Thatís how learning happens.

And if people are posting about pronunciation then they are de facto expressing exactly the same interest that I have. Getting annoyed by people using heh best available tool to talk about pronunciation is not a different of interest.
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Last edited by Acsenray; 02-02-2020 at 02:23 PM.
  #29  
Old 02-02-2020, 02:26 PM
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Thatís all you. Thereís nothing of that in my post.

What bothers me are the repeated suggestions that using IPA is offensive or unwarranted in some way, that people who are using it are doing a disservice or committing an offense. Thereís no call for being annoyed at seeing something that is new to you. Thatís how learning happens.

And if people are posting about pronunciation then they are de facto expressing exactly the same interest that I have. Getting annoyed by people using heh best available tool to talk about pronunciation is not a different of interest.
Okay. Well ... you say tomato, I say tomahto.
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  #30  
Old 02-02-2020, 03:05 PM
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I learned it in Linguistics class, at university, years ago. I did like the one symbol/one sound concept. I don't really use it anymore, except to read pronunciations on Wikipedia, but I've never forgotten it.
  #31  
Old 02-02-2020, 04:20 PM
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Man, I just DO NOT understand sentiments like this. How would you use "standard letters" to, say, demonstrate how a person from London or Liverpool pronounces "bath"? Or how a Dutch speaker pronounces "Amsterdam" or how an Italian speaker pronounces "Venezia"? ...

What do you do when you want to explain to someone how you pronounce a word? (The only reasonable answers I see are either "use IPA" or "I never do that".)
I never do that. At least, using written language. Iíve literally said ďactually itís pronounced BeijingĒ or whatever, but I canít say Iíve thought of a time where I personally had to communicate in writing to someone who needed to know how to pronounce something.

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What bothers me are the repeated suggestions that using IPA is offensive or unwarranted in some way, that people who are using it are doing a disservice or committing an offense. Thereís no call for being annoyed at seeing something that is new to you. Thatís how learning happens.
Which posts in this thread (or elsewhere) do you think that using IPA is offensive?

I can see that there are times when it is unhelpful because it isnít common knowledge. I mean, many many many more people will understand ďto-MAH-toĒ than will understand ďtʰə̥ˈmɐːtʰɐʉĒ so I can see that using IPA in casual conversations is overly technical. In a sense, itís like if I asked someone where the nearest grocery store is and they gave me the lat-long instead of the street address.

Last edited by Ravenman; 02-02-2020 at 04:21 PM.
  #32  
Old 02-02-2020, 04:37 PM
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I took a college Spanish class in 2007. The teacher didn't spend any time teaching pronunciation. She assumed we'd learn it from the IPA in the textbook. The class focused on grammar and creating sentences.

That was fine for the 19 year olds fresh out of high school.

I hired a tutor and recorded her pronunciation of the words as we covered them. Then reviewed the recording until I had it right.

That was a tough class. I took it to broaden my skills at work.

Last edited by aceplace57; 02-02-2020 at 04:40 PM.
  #33  
Old 02-02-2020, 05:19 PM
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... but I canít say Iíve thought of a time where I personally had to communicate in writing to someone who needed to know how to pronounce something.
Discussion of pronunciation happens all the time on the SDMB. I don't consider it a particularly esoteric or academic or specialized subject. All of us all the time are pronouncing things and hearing other people pronounce things, and around here people talk about pronuncation.

Quote:
Which posts in this thread (or elsewhere) do you think that using IPA is offensive?
This is a viewpoint that comes up every once in a while here. "Don't use those stupid dictionary symbols," is a phrase stuck in my memory.

Here's one example ó

Quote:
Originally Posted by ftg View Post
IPA is totally messed up. An incredible hodgepodge of symbols that make no sense whatsoever. While a "universal" alphabet is desirable, the way the IPA has gone about it is unbelievably bad.

Avoid it around "normal" people. I.e., nearly everyone.
Quote:
I can see that there are times when it is unhelpful because it isnít common knowledge. I mean, many many many more people will understand ďto-MAH-toĒ than will understand ďtʰə̥ˈmɐːtʰɐʉĒ
I don't know exactly how to respond to this, because it seems to be intentionally deceptive. I've posted in a lot of threads about pronunciation using I.P.A. and non-I.P.A. methods. I've never used a transcription like "tʰə̥ˈmɐːtʰɐʉ" to note a basic difference in alternative pronunciations of a word.
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Last edited by Acsenray; 02-02-2020 at 05:20 PM.
  #34  
Old 02-02-2020, 05:26 PM
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I don't know exactly how to respond to this, because it seems to be intentionally deceptive. I've posted in a lot of threads about pronunciation using I.P.A. and non-I.P.A. methods. I've never used a transcription like "tʰə̥ˈmɐːtʰɐʉ" to note a basic difference in alternative pronunciations of a word.
Don't take offense. I sort of recognize your name, and I don't know a damn thing about your posting history. I'm saying that if anyone relies on IPA in general discussion, the odds are very high that their audience won't get it. If indeed you have posted IPA and non-IPA pronunciations, then it would seem we agree on this point.
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Old 02-02-2020, 05:46 PM
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Itís not that I think you are trying to misrepresent me personally. Itís that I think youíre trying too misrepresent how IPA is used.

You posted a transcription using very specific set of high-level symbols. No one would use IPA in that way to talk about the two basic pronunciations of ďtomato.Ē More likely you would see [təmeɪtoʊ] and [təmatoʊ]. And that would form a very good lesson on a few of the basic symbols.

And, no, my use of multiple systems is not an admission that IPA is inappropriate for general use. I do it because IPA is the best tool to use and for those people who might be seeing it for the first time, the alternative might act as a rough guide. Thatís how I learned the Basic symbols, Just by being exposed to their use on discussion boards.
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  #36  
Old 02-02-2020, 05:56 PM
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And, no, my use of multiple systems is not an admission that IPA is inappropriate for general use. I do it because IPA is the best tool to use and for those people who might be seeing it for the first time, the alternative might act as a rough guide. Thatís how I learned the Basic symbols, Just by being exposed to their use on discussion boards.
Are you surprised by the results of the poll so far?
  #37  
Old 02-02-2020, 06:11 PM
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Are you surprised by the results of the poll so far?
I have no idea what would be standard for surprising with respect to this poll.
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Old 02-02-2020, 07:05 PM
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dup
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Last edited by Acsenray; 02-02-2020 at 07:05 PM.
  #39  
Old 02-02-2020, 09:12 PM
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Taiwan uses a system called K.K., Kenyon and Knott which is similar but not identical to IPA. Here is a chart which compares some of the symbols.

Teaching English here, then I got exposed to K.K. because they are used in the material for some of the English classes.
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Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
Discussion of pronunciation happens all the time on the SDMB. I don't consider it a particularly esoteric or academic or specialized subject. All of us all the time are pronouncing things and hearing other people pronounce things, and around here people talk about pronuncation.



This is a viewpoint that comes up every once in a while here. "Don't use those stupid dictionary symbols," is a phrase stuck in my memory.

Here's one example ó
Quote:
Originally Posted by ftg View Post
IPA is totally messed up. An incredible hodgepodge of symbols that make no sense whatsoever. While a "universal" alphabet is desirable, the way the IPA has gone about it is unbelievably bad.

Avoid it around "normal" people. I.e., nearly everyone.
Yes, but look at the very first reply on that thread:
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Originally Posted by Inner Stickler View Post
I don't think IPA usage should be mandated but I reserve the right to giggle behind my hand at people trying to compare pronunciations without using IPA or X-SAMPA or another phonetic notation system.
I'm surprised that there weren't more responses like ftg's after that condescending post.
  #40  
Old 02-02-2020, 09:16 PM
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One person’s ignorant statement doesn’t justify another persons ignorant statement.
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  #41  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:11 PM
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I thought this thread was going to about beer.
  #42  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:19 PM
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I've been using it for years, and I still would not consider myself fluent, as I have to look up sounds that I don't use or talk about often, as well as basically any of the diacritics which are used for greater detail. I have particular mergers in my accent that make it hard for me to know what sound others use.

That's why I push back so hard on the idea that people are lazy if they don't want to learn it. No, it takes time and effort. And the vast majority of the time, when discussing sounds, there are other ways to do it. IPA is mostly useful for people who discuss this sort of thing often. Or, yes, who need the fine degree of detail.
  #43  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
I have no idea what would be standard for surprising with respect to this poll.
As with any surprise, in which a events play out differently than a personís expectations.

Iím curious if you expected, or did not expect, that ~75% of respondents cannot read IPA.
  #44  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
As with any surprise, in which a events play out differently than a personís expectations.

Iím curious if you expected, or did not expect, that ~75% of respondents cannot read IPA.
I had no particular expectations.
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*I'm experimenting with E, em, and es and emself as pronouns that do not indicate any specific gender nor exclude any specific gender.
  #45  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
You posted a transcription using very specific set of high-level symbols. No one would use IPA in that way to talk about the two basic pronunciations of ďtomato.Ē More likely you would see [təmeɪtoʊ] and [təmatoʊ]. And that would form a very good lesson on a few of the basic symbols.
Seeing as he doesn't seem to be an expert, I would presume he simply went and copied that pronunciation from a dictionary, likely one that showed both pronunciations of tomato with a provided sound clip. I don't think any intention was to make it look overly complicated.

While it does use a bit more specificity (aspiration and vowel length are indicated), I'd say the biggest difference is simply that it is not written in an American accent. (I'm not sure if it's British or Australian, as both have similar features, but the openness makes me think Australian.)

Tomayto vs tomahto is definitely a situation where I would just use modified spellings because it would be clear enough what was being talked about. IPA is mostly useful when you get into higher levels of specificity.
  #46  
Old 02-02-2020, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
As with any surprise, in which a events play out differently than a personís expectations.

Iím curious if you expected, or did not expect, that ~75% of respondents cannot read IPA.
I personally am pleasantly surprised that 25%+ are familiar enough with it. That is pretty awesome and I'm glad I make the effort now to use IPA symbols in pronunciation threads (along with my approximations in "plain English.")
  #47  
Old 02-02-2020, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BigT
Seeing as he doesn't seem to be an expert, I would presume he simply went and copied that pronunciation from a dictionary, likely one that showed both pronunciations of tomato with a provided sound clip. I don't think any intention was to make it look overly complicated.
Yes, I just copied and pasted the first IPA that I came across, because I canít fact check that shit. For all I know, the word could have been written in a falsetto with burps separating the syllables. But I believe there is no anti-IPA cabal conspiring to insult its users and use subtle negging to make it seem more complex than it is. Hardly anybody actually cares about it at all.

Similarly, if some grandpa asks a grandson about their doll with laser sword; the kid need not get their nose out of joint because its a limited edition Kylo Ren action figure with his cross guard lightsaber geeeeeeeeeeeez!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pulykamell
That is pretty awesome and I'm glad I make the effort now to use IPA symbols in pronunciation threads (along with my approximations in "plain English.")
As I read this, it came to me that I would compare the skill of knowing IPA as analogous to knowing how to tie good knots. I surely respect that some people know how to tie not only a bowline, clove hitch, and whatever, and of course they probably put them to quite good use. Itís also a pretty handy thing to know, too, if you find yourself in certain circumstances. But unless a person is a sailor, stagehand, crane operation, etc., theyíre probably just going to tie like six square knots on the string that keeps the Christmas tree on the roof of their car and everything will be just fine, even if inelegant.
  #48  
Old 02-03-2020, 12:16 AM
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I never do that. At least, using written language. Iíve literally said ďactually itís pronounced BeijingĒ or whatever, but I canít say Iíve thought of a time where I personally had to communicate in writing to someone who needed to know how to pronounce something.
But maybe you are not a lexicographer. Isn't that why (some, including some major) English dictionaries use the IPA as a pronunciation guide, so people learning the language can tell how to pronounce the words? Compare to the fanqie system traditionally used in Chinese dictionaries for a millennium: 'cat' (to use an analogy) might be glossed as c- as in can + -at as in bat. That's possibly OK once one is a bit familiar with the dialect, but I wouldn't want to randomly guess what 'bei' or 'jing' sound like without bootstrapping the process. 'A' as in 'tomato'?

Come to think of it, along with the IPA, too, you need some sound samples for it to be useful, unless you already know most of them from imitating native speakers or your native language or have an excellent auditory imagination for how to pronounce alveolar clicks, voiced uvular fricatives, or what have you simply by reading a description.
  #49  
Old 02-03-2020, 12:32 AM
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In a sense, itís like if I asked someone where the nearest grocery store is and they gave me the lat-long instead of the street address.
This is awesome!!!

Due to my job, if I'm given a lat & long, a compass, map and ruler. I can get you there. I'd never expect some random person to do the same.
  #50  
Old 02-03-2020, 01:07 AM
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I voted that I'd heard of it but can't read it; but now I'm not sure I've even heard of it properly. I didn't recognize the acronym, but assumed from the description that I understood what it meant, and that I'd run into it; but I assumed that the dictionary version was the same thing, and I gather from this thread that it isn't.

I don't run into the situation often enough to make it worth taking the time to learn it, and these days when I want to know how to pronounce something I find an audio clip online.
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