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Old 02-04-2020, 04:11 PM
Euphonious Polemic is offline
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Trumps hypothetical moves going forward


Someone explain to me why this hypothetical scenario is not possible:

At some time in the next month or two, Trump signs an executive order declaring that Pelosi, Schiff, Ocasio-Cortez, Pressley and 40 other House Democrats are in violation of the Will of The People, and orders them arrested.

William Barr agrees with this assessment, and tells his staff that this is a lawful order coming from the President of the United States, and they are bound to enforce it. He orders their arrest by FBI agents. Any agent who refuses the order is summarily dismissed. The Democrats are arrested and held in a secure facility. Fox News declares that this is the Just and Right Thing To Do.

The next Democrat who steps up to take the "majority" leadership role is arrested on the same charges. And so on. The Democrats no long have the majority in the house. The Republicans in the House convene, and elect a leader who they call the "majority leader", and proceed to control the agenda. Other Democrat politicians likely protest wildly and refuse to even attend these "sessions" as they have no actual meaning. Republicans do not care, and go about the business of the nation, passing bills to be sent on to the Senate all by themselves.

Of course, the public and non-Fox media respond with blinding outrage. There are huge protests (relatively huge, because most people don't actually understand what's going on, and there are two side to everything, right?)
This causes disruption on a huge scale. Disruption is bad. The protesters are called "socialists" and "traitors" and finally, "terrorists". William Barr cracks down. The protests are a danger to a stable society. Protesters are dispersed with various non-lethal methods. Mass arrests are made. Orders go out to identify the leaders and arrest them. Any police or FBI who refuse are fired on the spot.

Media outlets who report negatively on the administrations handling of these protests are themselves subject to harsh measures. Certain reporters and newsreaders are taken away. Others simply disappear.

More protests follow. As do more arrests. Anyone who even attempts to organize a protest is locked up. Trials take a long time. A LONG time. These folks stay incarcerated.

Groups of Trumpsters form, who help the police identify and arrest the traitor/terrorist protesters. Sometimes the go a little overboard and some protesters "disappear", but who can blame them, right?

Eventually, things settle down. The Republican "House" passes bills to send to the Republican "Senate", and finally to President Trump. Peace is restored, and everything goes back to "normal".
  #2  
Old 02-04-2020, 04:28 PM
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  #3  
Old 02-04-2020, 05:40 PM
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If this hypothetical did happen (which it won't,) I'd expect Trump to arrest not only many Democrats in the House, but the Senate as well. Then he would logically also pack the Supreme Court as well. Expand it to maybe 39 justices or whatever; now that he has a temporary Senate supermajority to ram it through.

This would be a permanent Crossing-the-Rubicon snatch for power. There would be no more "normal" after this, never again.
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Old 02-04-2020, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
If this hypothetical did happen (which it won't,)...
That's the hope.

Quote:
...I'd expect Trump to arrest not only many Democrats in the House, but the Senate as well. Then he would logically also pack the Supreme Court as well. Expand it to maybe 39 justices or whatever; now that he has a temporary Senate supermajority to ram it through.
If this POTUS fears irrefutable exposure of treason, expect a martial law declaration with Dems and other dissidents rounded up. Must maintain ORDER, right? Those surviving the purges will be very obedient. Government will run smoothly, without tedious distractions.

Quote:
This would be a permanent Crossing-the-Rubicon snatch for power. There would be no more "normal" after this, never again.
That grab would be prevented by a coup d'état. What's worse, the disease or the cure?
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:29 PM
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I'm certain Trump would do this if he felt he could get away with it. And I'm 70-90% sure the GOP would go along with it.

But what legal right does he have to declare his political opponents as enemies of the people? My understanding is that during WW1, people were being given 20 year sentences for speaking out against the war with the sedition act of 1918. But that was repealed.

Point is, Trump would do this if he could, and his base would love it, and the mainstream GOP would be more terrified of their base than they care about the constitution.

But what legal authority would he have to do this? I don't think you can just sign an executive order making anyone who you dislike a criminal.
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 02-04-2020 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:38 PM
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But what legal authority would he have to do this? I don't think you can just sign an executive order making anyone who you dislike a criminal.
Why not? As long as the Attorney General says it's just fine, and the criminals are then quickly rounded up by sympathetic FBI/police/Trumpforce, then who is going to stop them? They'll be in prison. Go ask the supreme court nicely to release them? Ha ha!
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:42 PM
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But what legal authority would he have to do this? I don't think you can just sign an executive order making anyone who you dislike a criminal.
According to Dershowitz, if Trump believes it is in the nation's interest, he can do it, law be damned.
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:10 PM
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He's going to OD on Melange and gradually turn into a giant sandworm so he can rule forever.
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:14 AM
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Practically speaking the only thing stopping that from happening would be the FBI, police and military refusing to obey clearly unlawful orders, or the people violently overthrowing the government. I think that the bluest States would effectively secede and a civil war would ensue. Overall I'm not super optimistic.
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:46 PM
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Practically speaking the only thing stopping that from happening would be the FBI, police and military refusing to obey clearly unlawful orders, or the people violently overthrowing the government. I think that the bluest States would effectively secede and a civil war would ensue. Overall I'm not super optimistic.
The Justice Dept. (Barr) will make it clear that anyone who disobeys his direct order will be immediately fired with no recourse, and will never work in any capacity ever again. There are plenty of Trumpers in law enforcement who will happily obey orders. Heck there are quite a few who would obey orders to fire live rounds into crowds of unarmed protesters.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:56 PM
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A plucky and ethnically diverse group of survivors will hack into the government computer systems, disable the Mind Control machine, and lead the Wolverines to victory. Not sure how, but I think the Force will be involved.

It will turn out to be a conspiracy of invisible space elephants seeking to enslave mankind to work on their peanut farms on the planet Goober, in the Andromeda galaxy. Elizabeth Warren will take off her glasses, shake her hair, and reveal herself to be a beautiful 19 year old, and she and Bernie will fall in love and star in a new Netflix series called "Cranky Loves Cherokee", the story of two wacky misfits who find their way into the Oval Office and spar over M4A in an atmosphere of sexual banter and hilarious misunderstandings.

In the first episode, DNA tests reveal that Sanders is not actually Jewish, but is an Inuit pole dancer from Cleveland who was raised by elk, and he insists on being addressed as "King of the Tundra".

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 02-06-2020, 11:17 AM
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Citizens in large cities would call for resistance but since they have been disarmed by gun control they will be ineffectual. Bloomberg will reveal that this was the plan all along and he has been working with Trump the entire time. In return for his service in disarming the president's opponents Bloomberg will be given New York City to rule as his personal fiefdom.
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Old 02-06-2020, 11:25 AM
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I doubt if this exact scenario will happen, but this sort of gross abuse seems likely. Indeed, it's already happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
Citizens in large cities would call for resistance but since they have been disarmed by gun control they will be ineffectual. Bloomberg will reveal that this was the plan all along and he has been working with Trump the entire time. In return for his service in disarming the president's opponents Bloomberg will be given New York City to rule as his personal fiefdom.
Don't know if you're serious and don't care. But you do overlook that a large majoruty of American gun nuts are Trump supporters.
  #14  
Old 02-06-2020, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
Groups of Trumpsters form, who help the police identify and arrest the traitor/terrorist protesters. Sometimes the go a little overboard and some protesters "disappear", but who can blame them, right?
“Oh, pardon me.”
  #15  
Old 02-06-2020, 12:55 PM
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Already happening #2 - travel restrictions on enemies:

Trump Administration suspends New Yorkers from trusted traveler programs.
  #16  
Old 02-06-2020, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
The Justice Dept. (Barr) will make it clear that anyone who disobeys his direct order will be immediately fired with no recourse, and will never work in any capacity ever again. There are plenty of Trumpers in law enforcement who will happily obey orders. Heck there are quite a few who would obey orders to fire live rounds into crowds of unarmed protesters.
The problem with that is, the LEO's who are summarily fired are sure as hell going to join the Resistance.
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Old 02-06-2020, 01:08 PM
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Both of them?
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Old 02-06-2020, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
Citizens in large cities would call for resistance but since they have been disarmed by gun control they will be ineffectual. Bloomberg will reveal that this was the plan all along and he has been working with Trump the entire time. In return for his service in disarming the president's opponents Bloomberg will be given New York City to rule as his personal fiefdom.
Nancy Pelosi gets Newark as punishment.

Regards,
Shodan
  #19  
Old 02-06-2020, 01:42 PM
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Don't know if you're serious and don't care. But you do overlook that a large majoruty of American gun nuts are Trump supporters.
That's literally the point he was making.
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Old 02-07-2020, 01:06 AM
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That's literally the point he was making.
Oops: I thought puddleglum was responding to ...
Quote:
The Justice Dept. (Barr) will make it clear that anyone who disobeys his direct order will be immediately fired with no recourse, and will never work in any capacity ever again. There are plenty of Trumpers in law enforcement who will happily obey orders. Heck there are quite a few who would obey orders to fire live rounds into crowds of unarmed protesters.
... but see now that there was an intervening post. My fault.
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Old 02-07-2020, 02:08 AM
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But what legal authority would he have to do this? I don't think you can just sign an executive order making anyone who you dislike a criminal.
Grim reality: Anything an executive wants that cops will enforce and courts won't or can't block* is legal. Enforcement (emphasis on FORCE) makes legality. As Mao said, "Political power grows from the barrel of a gun." US military and paramilitary forces vastly outgun civilians. The question is: If/when this POTUS declares emergency martial law and orders roundups of dissidents including legislators and recalcitrant justices and judges, who will dare to disobey? Is a coup the only remedy?

* Pres. Jackson told SCOTUS to enforce their own damn order against his genocidal moves. The Trail of Tears ensued.
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Old 02-07-2020, 02:49 AM
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If Jackson isn't in Hell, I will refuse to go! i have standards.
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Old 02-07-2020, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
A plucky and ethnically diverse group of survivors will hack into the government computer systems, disable the Mind Control machine, and lead the Wolverines to victory. Not sure how, but I think the Force will be involved.

It will turn out to be a conspiracy of invisible space elephants seeking to enslave mankind to work on their peanut farms on the planet Goober, in the Andromeda galaxy. Elizabeth Warren will take off her glasses, shake her hair, and reveal herself to be a beautiful 19 year old, and she and Bernie will fall in love and star in a new Netflix series called "Cranky Loves Cherokee", the story of two wacky misfits who find their way into the Oval Office and spar over M4A in an atmosphere of sexual banter and hilarious misunderstandings.

In the first episode, DNA tests reveal that Sanders is not actually Jewish, but is an Inuit pole dancer from Cleveland who was raised by elk, and he insists on being addressed as "King of the Tundra".

Regards,
Shodan
Sorry, what are you talking about?
  #24  
Old 02-07-2020, 06:45 AM
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Sorry, what are you talking about?
A more likely scenario.
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Old 02-07-2020, 04:04 PM
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Heh.
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Old 02-07-2020, 04:44 PM
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He's going to OD on Melange and gradually turn into a giant sandworm so he can rule forever.
It was foreseen in the Orange-Catholic Bible, though I fear the soul is, in fact, disfigured.
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Old 02-07-2020, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
Someone explain to me why this hypothetical scenario is not possible:

At some time in the next month or two, Trump signs an executive order declaring that Pelosi, Schiff, Ocasio-Cortez, Pressley and 40 other House Democrats are in violation of the Will of The People, and orders them arrested.

William Barr agrees with this assessment, and tells his staff that this is a lawful order coming from the President of the United States, and they are bound to enforce it. He orders their arrest by FBI agents. Any agent who refuses the order is summarily dismissed. The Democrats are arrested and held in a secure facility. Fox News declares that this is the Just and Right Thing To Do.

The next Democrat who steps up to take the "majority" leadership role is arrested on the same charges. And so on. The Democrats no long have the majority in the house. The Republicans in the House convene, and elect a leader who they call the "majority leader", and proceed to control the agenda. Other Democrat politicians likely protest wildly and refuse to even attend these "sessions" as they have no actual meaning. Republicans do not care, and go about the business of the nation, passing bills to be sent on to the Senate all by themselves.

Of course, the public and non-Fox media respond with blinding outrage. There are huge protests (relatively huge, because most people don't actually understand what's going on, and there are two side to everything, right?)
This causes disruption on a huge scale. Disruption is bad. The protesters are called "socialists" and "traitors" and finally, "terrorists". William Barr cracks down. The protests are a danger to a stable society. Protesters are dispersed with various non-lethal methods. Mass arrests are made. Orders go out to identify the leaders and arrest them. Any police or FBI who refuse are fired on the spot.

Media outlets who report negatively on the administrations handling of these protests are themselves subject to harsh measures. Certain reporters and newsreaders are taken away. Others simply disappear.

More protests follow. As do more arrests. Anyone who even attempts to organize a protest is locked up. Trials take a long time. A LONG time. These folks stay incarcerated.

Groups of Trumpsters form, who help the police identify and arrest the traitor/terrorist protesters. Sometimes the go a little overboard and some protesters "disappear", but who can blame them, right?

Eventually, things settle down. The Republican "House" passes bills to send to the Republican "Senate", and finally to President Trump. Peace is restored, and everything goes back to "normal".
A couple of months after he's re-elected and declares himself president for life.

Right now he's on his revenge tour.

Key Impeachment Witness Vindman 'Escorted' From White House, His Lawyer Says I understand his brother was also fired. Crossing Trump is dangerous to you and your loved ones.
  #28  
Old 02-07-2020, 05:41 PM
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He's going to OD on Melange and gradually turn into a giant sandworm so he can rule forever.
Well, technically it's only for 3 - 4 thousand years. But that's long enough for the Typhoon Struggle. Paraphrasing:

Leto II: I will enforce peace for thousands of years.
Paul: But what will that achieve?
Leto II: It's opposite. It's that and my Golden Path or humans will go extinct.

You all may dread thousands of years of Trump rule but remember: Whether you traverse the sietch quickly or slowly, you still traverse the sietch. I trust this post has cleared this all up for everybody.
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