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  #51  
Old 02-05-2020, 12:26 AM
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Remember that young woman who testified before Congress that she felt that health care insurance should cover contraception? Rush Limbaugh took to the airwaves and make the repugnant (and logically dubious) connection that this made her a whore.
This is the guy who just got the Medal of Freedom.
Sandra Fluke, a 21-year-old Georgetown law student. Limbaugh called her a slut and a prostitute on-air after she testified to congress regarding the need for mandated contraceptive coverage in health insurance reform.
  #52  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:09 AM
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Most comments here feel otherwise but I think Trump was very good tonight. He didn't go wacko about anything (his MO) nor did he gloat over succeeding in the impeachment drama. The non-handshake was not a snub, just how the first moments went (as mentioned earlier, no one felt that Pence was snubbed and he didn't get a handshake either).

I didn't understand the ladies in white thing, somehow related to the ladies in black during the impeachment vote? I don't get it.

Pelosi's speech rip will cost her party many votes in the next election, maybe the whole thing. Such an easy snip to put in a commercial of a very juvenile, bush reaction in what should be a dignified event. Shameful.
  #53  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:20 AM
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Pelosi's speech rip will cost her party many votes in the next election, maybe the whole thing. Such an easy snip to put in a commercial of a very juvenile, bush reaction in what should be a dignified event. Shameful.
Right, Trump's really got the "dignified and mature" vote sewn up thanks to this.

  #54  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:22 AM
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Indeed.
  #55  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mundylion View Post
Most comments here feel otherwise but I think Trump was very good tonight. He didn't go wacko about anything (his MO) nor did he gloat over succeeding in the impeachment drama. The non-handshake was not a snub, just how the first moments went (as mentioned earlier, no one felt that Pence was snubbed and he didn't get a handshake either).

I didn't understand the ladies in white thing, somehow related to the ladies in black during the impeachment vote? I don't get it.

Pelosi's speech rip will cost her party many votes in the next election, maybe the whole thing. Such an easy snip to put in a commercial of a very juvenile, bush reaction in what should be a dignified event. Shameful.
Let's go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! That's prolly the stupidest, most poorly-reasoned thing I've read today! And I was browsing stuff on Reddit today!
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Right, Trump's really got the "dignified and mature" vote sewn up thanks to this.

ikr

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 02-05-2020 at 01:23 AM.
  #56  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:26 AM
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Most comments here feel otherwise but I think Trump was very good tonight. He didn't go wacko about anything (his MO) nor did he gloat over succeeding in the impeachment drama. The non-handshake was not a snub, just how the first moments went (as mentioned earlier, no one felt that Pence was snubbed and he didn't get a handshake either).

I didn't understand the ladies in white thing, somehow related to the ladies in black during the impeachment vote? I don't get it.

Pelosi's speech rip will cost her party many votes in the next election, maybe the whole thing. Such an easy snip to put in a commercial of a very juvenile, bush reaction in what should be a dignified event. Shameful.
There is a total disconnect between Trump supporters and the rest of the country.
You call what Pelosi did shameful. Yet you are congratulating Trump for not lying excessively. You are congratulating Trump for not being "wacko". Like he usually is.
You forget that he was JUST IMPEACHED for trying to use our money to influence the election. Yeah, Pelosi is the one who is shameful.
  #57  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:29 AM
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Whoa. Stupidest and most poorly reasoned. At least I'm at the top of something.

Not looking for a huge argument, just trying to give an opinion that is different from the pack yet not ridiculous. Apparent you feel otherwise. Sorry about that.

We'll chat again when Trump wins again. "How did that happen!!!"
  #58  
Old 02-05-2020, 02:35 AM
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My bold prediction is that just like every other State of the Union, none of this will be remembered in a week. Not the speech, not the handshake, not the ripped papers, and not the response. (Sometimes the response is remembered, but only if it gets mocked. Gretchen Whitmer's response was admirably boring and forgettable, which is the most you can really hope for.)

Just cancel the whole thing forever, it's the most pointless event there is.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 02-05-2020 at 02:39 AM.
  #59  
Old 02-05-2020, 08:16 AM
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So did Nancy hurt poor wittle Donald's feewings by ripping up his speech? Awww. You go into someone else's house and lie your fucking ass off and give a medal to a piece of shit, getting your speech ripped up is a very measured response indeed. He should have had it printed on toilet paper so that she could have given it the treatment it deserved.

As much as I like my governor, Gretchen Whitmer, the response was pretty dull. But then it has to be. The trouble with responses is that you can't respond without getting a copy of the SOTU in advance to factcheck and rebut specific claims. So we had the pomp and ceremony beforehand and the reality show speech. It's over and done with, let's just hope it's his last ever.
  #60  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:11 AM
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And right on cue, all the right wingers are claiming that Nancy Pelosi disrespected Scholarship Girl, Returning War Fighter, and Space Force Boy.

Same playbook as their arguments against kneeling for the anthem. "YER DISRESPECTING VETERANS!". Not even remotely about that, but they don't want to face the real issue at hand.

Big surprise.
  #61  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:16 AM
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Pelosi fully showed her ass tonight. Will make for a good number of campaign commercials. It's the SOTU. Sit there and applaud or don't, but don't shuffle papers and look around like a sniper is after you. The ripping up of the speech was low class.
Oh, puh-leeze. He can tear up and wipe his ass with the Constitution and you get teh vaproz over somebody tearing up a stupid ritual speech?
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  #62  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:34 AM
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My bold prediction is that just like every other State of the Union, none of this will be remembered in a week. Not the speech, not the handshake, not the ripped papers, and not the response. (Sometimes the response is remembered, but only if it gets mocked. Gretchen Whitmer's response was admirably boring and forgettable, which is the most you can really hope for.)

Just cancel the whole thing forever, it's the most pointless event there is.
I agree with you. After 30+ years of watching State of the Union speeches they all seem the same to me. Just staged, overly written crap designed to pander to the party base and nothing real stands out.

And one congressman walked out, saying the speech was "fake like pro wrestling." Most of politics is just theater now do so I don't know how he could be surprised this speech would be any different.
  #63  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:37 AM
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Notice that none of the commentary is about Trump's bold new policy objectives. Because there weren't any. It was self-congratulatory campaign material, interrupted by Oprah moments.
  #64  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:39 AM
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Whoa. Stupidest and most poorly reasoned. At least I'm at the top of something.
You sure are.

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Originally Posted by mundylion View Post
Not looking for a huge argument, just trying to give an opinion that is different from the pack yet not ridiculous. Apparent you feel otherwise. Sorry about that.

We'll chat again when Trump wins again. "How did that happen!!!"
Don't flatter yourself. We all know how that happened. Everybody knows.
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  #65  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:56 AM
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So Rush Limbaugh gets a Medal of Freedom, but a 100-year-old member of one of the most successful fighter squadrons of WWII didn't.

Go figure.
  #66  
Old 02-05-2020, 10:01 AM
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A man who risked his life for love of a country that didn't love him back. Beyond mere patriotism.
  #67  
Old 02-05-2020, 10:08 AM
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A question about SOTUs in general. Who is responsible for putting together all the "Oprah moments" (as jsc1953 called them)? I know that the Speaker has to formally invite the President to give the speech before Congress, but how much control do they have over the format? Could Pelosi have done like McConnell did with the impeachment trial, allowing only a single camera and all networks get the exact same feed? Would there be less bullshit if the SOTU looked like everything else you'd see on C-SPAN any day of the week?
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  #68  
Old 02-05-2020, 10:11 AM
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I agree with you. After 30+ years of watching State of the Union speeches they all seem the same to me. Just staged, overly written crap designed to pander to the party base and nothing real stands out.
The pandering to the party base has only been a feature since 2017. Up until now, presidents acted like they're also working for people that didn't vote for them and their speeches were meant to show everybody that their interests are being met.
  #69  
Old 02-05-2020, 10:27 AM
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I don't want to sound overly negative, because I hope it went just fine for everyone, but I really didn't like that that woman got surprised by her husband on live television. These reunions can be...emotionally complicated, especially when there are young kids who are being shoved into the arms of a stranger, and they shouldn't be taking place in front of millions of people. Sometimes it can take a little while for the "right" feelings to happen, and it's bad enough when it's all happening with other military families, let alone on national TV.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 02-05-2020 at 10:32 AM.
  #70  
Old 02-05-2020, 10:27 AM
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I've never watched Trump's State of the Union speeches. I think I stopped watching Obama's after he got re-elected. Previous presidents no doubt had decorum in their candour and the congressional audience --- no obnoxious whooping and chanting. However they have been a method of self-promotion before Trump arrived.

The only president who called the state of the union candidly for the state it was in, was Gerald Ford who started off by announcing "The state of the union is not good". Being an unelected president was probably the reason he could be so brutally honest. He didn't have to please constituents or a base because no one voted for him. He called it for what it really was and not what he needed it to be.
  #71  
Old 02-05-2020, 10:36 AM
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I think the last time a President said anything consequential at one of these was 2002, when George W. Bush wrecked negotiations with Iran and pushed North Korea to redouble its nuclear program by declaring both countries to be in an "Axis of Evil" that was subject to imminent destruction at his mere whim.
  #72  
Old 02-05-2020, 10:44 AM
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Pelosi fully showed her ass tonight. Will make for a good number of campaign commercials. It's the SOTU. Sit there and applaud or don't, but don't shuffle papers and look around like a sniper is after you. The ripping up of the speech was low class.
The White House literally hired people whose job it is to tape back together documents that Trump rips up.
  #73  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:31 PM
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So Rush Limbaugh gets a Medal of Freedom, but a 100-year-old member of one of the most successful fighter squadrons of WWII didn't.

Go figure.
Well, he did get promoted to Brigadier General, which he probably would prefer anyway.
  #74  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:42 PM
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I watched or heard most of the speech last night. It was interesting that I feel like I got a glimpse into, no, a view into, the culture of conservatism as it exists in the US these days. I do not watch Fox News so a lot of this was new and novel to me. Smart-looking people lapping up lies by the bucket, gleeful the other side was getting bitch-slapped. A good portion of my country loved what they saw, and another good portion probably had to stifle barfing in their mouth.

My conclusion is that our system of politics is irreparably shattered. We have two tribes of chimps now, ready to kill and eat the other side. There's no middle. After last night's performances (by everyone in the room) I cannot think of how we are ever going to come together unless we are facing the doomsday asteroid. Even then, one side will say "We need to do something!" while the other is saying "It's all a hoax", just to be contrary.

I should not have watched it. I am happier staying away from the news these days.
  #75  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:43 PM
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So Rush Limbaugh gets a Medal of Freedom, but a 100-year-old member of one of the most successful fighter squadrons of WWII didn't.

Go figure.
The medal of freedom is a civilian honour. The Tuskeegee airman was awarded a promotion to Brigadier General, along with the military medals he has won.

The Medal of Freedom has also been given out to entertainers for a long time. Obama gave Medals of Freedom to Tom Hanks, Gloria Estefan, Bruce Springsteen, Oprah, Ellen DeGeneres and a whole lot of other people. Every modern President has given out Medals of Freedom to their favourite entertainers and artists. George W. Bush gave one to radio host Paul Harvey.

The modern Medal of Freedom is little more than a lifetime achievement award for a President's favourite people. It's been substantially devalued by this, since at least the Reagan administration.
  #76  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:47 PM
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The pandering to the party base has only been a feature since 2017. Up until now, presidents acted like they're also working for people that didn't vote for them and their speeches were meant to show everybody that their interests are being met.
Frankly, as someone who doesn't strongly identify with either the Democratic or Republican parties, I don't think Trump panders to his party base anymore than Obama, Bush, Or Clinton did. I will admit that Trump is more brazen and vulgar about it than the past Presidents were but I never got the sense for any of the three other Presidents that were "acting like they were working for the people who didn't vote them."
  #77  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:49 PM
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Just cancel the whole thing forever, it's the most pointless event there is.
Yep. I've felt for years that they should go back to the original system, where the President produces a written document and sends it to Congress. The speech is completely pointless except as a free ad for the President on prime-time TV.
  #78  
Old 02-05-2020, 01:50 PM
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The modern Medal of Freedom is little more than a lifetime achievement award for a President's favourite people. It's been substantially devalued by this, since at least the Reagan administration.
Have any ever been revoked or rescinded? Bill Cosby also got one.
  #79  
Old 02-05-2020, 02:02 PM
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I wish Pelosi had scheduled it during the Super Bowl.
  #80  
Old 02-05-2020, 02:10 PM
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Yep. I've felt for years that they should go back to the original system, where the President produces a written document and sends it to Congress. The speech is completely pointless except as a free ad for the President on prime-time TV.
Hear hear. But U.S. federal politics is Hollywood for ugly people, and neither side is going to give up on the prospect of a couple of hours of free air time.
  #81  
Old 02-05-2020, 02:22 PM
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Have any ever been revoked or rescinded? Bill Cosby also got one.
Apparently, President Obama was asked about rescinding Cosby's on PBS NewsHour once, and he said that there is no precedent for it.
  #82  
Old 02-05-2020, 02:32 PM
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Remember that young woman who testified before Congress that she felt that health care insurance should cover contraception? Rush Limbaugh took to the airwaves and make the repugnant (and logically dubious) connection that this made her a whore.
This is the guy who just got the Medal of Freedom.
Yes. the word freedom is so ironic here. Because freedom depends on a commitment to objective truth.

Hmm...
"Freedom" from rationality and fairness, perhaps?
  #83  
Old 02-05-2020, 02:36 PM
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The NY Times is doing live commentary with real-time fact checking. So far (9:36 ET) it's 3 false, 2 "needs context", 5 true, 2 exaggerated.
5 TRUE?! You're not joking?
He must be slipping.
  #84  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:08 PM
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Well, he didn't shake Pence's hand either and was in the process of turning around before she extended her hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aC9zQX01T8
Because he is a spineless coward. He didn't have the guts to look Pelosi in the eye while snubbing her, and clearly saw her extending her hand. In a pathetic move to hide his obvious cowardice, he took the easy way out and also ignored his own vice president. Classless and feckless to boot. What a combination!
  #85  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:27 PM
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Looks like the ratings for this year plummeted from last year. People sick of Trump or sick of having political theatre shoved down their throat.
  #86  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:52 PM
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Because he is a spineless coward. He didn't have the guts to look Pelosi in the eye while snubbing her, and clearly saw her extending her hand. In a pathetic move to hide his obvious cowardice, he took the easy way out and also ignored his own vice president. Classless and feckless to boot. What a combination!
More likely scenario is that the boys agreed not to shake hands in order not to make it more awkward for the pussy grabber to ignore the mean lady in charge of his impeachment.
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  #87  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:01 PM
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It didn’t work.
  #88  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:05 PM
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did you check out donnies mussolini moves? The guy is a see-through dress.

He was told to avoid complaining, and stick to a script. Because EVERYTHING depends on it. So he performs a wordless pantomime of contempt for the majority of americans as he steps up to the podium. And the Limbaugh thing was the only thing that actually happened: narcissistic supply for him and his base, mainly through the insult to america.

Limbaugh is the one who was calling Chelsea Clinton a dog on his show in the 90s. She was about 13 at the time. This alone requires nancy pelosi to rip up the speech.
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:50 PM
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Trump fooled all his fanatics, but they'll defend him to the death because of ego. My laments about Pelosi is why/when she would stand up and clap -- US/CIA intervening in Venezuela, killing Soleimani (despite MSM saying how he effective he was killing the isis jv league), having Juan Guido in the audience.
  #90  
Old 02-13-2020, 05:04 PM
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There's been some follow-up reporting on the SOTU; it turns out that Trump told some lies.
Quote:
Tony Rankins, a formerly homeless, drug-addicted Army veteran, got a standing ovation at the State of the Union after President Donald Trump described how he turned his life around thanks to a construction job at a company using the administration’s “Opportunity Zone” tax breaks targeting poor neighborhoods.

But that’s not completely true.

Rankins, who indeed moved out of his car and into an apartment since landing a job refurbishing a Nashville hotel two years ago, doesn’t work at a site taking advantage of the breaks and never has done so. In fact, he started that job four months before the Treasury Department published its final list of neighborhoods eligible for the breaks. And the hotel where he worked couldn’t benefit even now because it’s an area that didn’t make the cut.
Quote:
Trump also praised Rankins’ employer, R Investments, for “working to help 200 people rise out of homelessness every year by investing in opportunity zones.”

That is also not quite true.

CEO Travis Steffens said he has hired hundreds of homeless to work at the 400 buildings the company has owned over the years, taking advantage of various tax breaks. But when it comes to Trump’s Opportunity Zone breaks, he said, the company has only one building tapping the program now, a warehouse in Cincinnati where no one seems to be working, homeless or otherwise.

“We’ve not really worked there,” Rankins said, “but we’ve stored things over there.”
How about the 200 people a year that R Investments helps escape poverty?
Quote:
Steffens suggested that when Trump said R Investments was helping 200 people rise out of homelessness he was referring to the number the company hopes to teach construction skills to at the warehouse once it has been converted to a training academy.

The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
But that's not all; there's more!
Quote:
Trump dramatically announced that a Philadelphia fourth-grader, Janiyah Davis, would be getting a scholarship that would allow her to transfer from a “failing government” school to a charter school of her choice. But The Philadelphia Inquirer reported that she had already been attending a charter school for months and that students there don’t have to pay tuition.
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