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  #101  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:27 PM
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In today's America, a young married gay man who is relatively new to politics, is much farther from status quo than an old jewish man who has spent much of his life in congress.

p.s.: Socialists are far more scary to Americans than gays.
Neither Pete's gayhood nor Bernie's jewishdom have any bearing on anything whatsofuckingever. To a rational person, anyhoo.

Last edited by Kobal2; 02-05-2020 at 03:28 PM.
  #102  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:30 PM
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What would be the point? Surely you'd agree that, if I spent enough time searching, I could find probably anything, including someone who supported McCain and Palin but now only supports Pete Buttigieg and otherwise will vote for Trump, on Twitter? What would be the point of finding random strangers for you to ridicule?
It was a bit of a rhetorical comment. My point was that we should not go around pretending like our farts don't smell. Being a lib/prog/dem should not automatically make you immune from self-evaluation and pointing out of areas that need improvement. If we don't, you can bet that the other side will.

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I hold that ridiculing Democratic-candidate supporters en masse does no one any good (but maybe Trump).

It's not about coddling, it's about focusing on hurting Trump. Coddling "petulant Bernie Bros" doesn't help anyone... but neither does ridiculing them, especially when done in a way that could be interpreted as an attack on all Bernie supporters.
Not en-masse. Targeted.

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To be clear, I don't have a problem with pointing to specific people and posters and saying "that's a terrible and harmful sentiment, screw you". I just very strongly caution you and others to make it very, very clear who you're referring to -- this specific person, rather than some nebulous category like "Bernie Bros" (of which I'm not sure if I qualify -- I'm a male Bernie supporter... am I a Bernie Bro?).
If you have to ask, you're not.

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This is possible, but so what? They also might be getting disproportionate attention. I don't know. But if Bernie has X million great supporters, plus a few thousand very vocal assholes, what does it matter if some other candidate has an even smaller ratio of assholes supporting them?
How would you feel about a Trump supporter making the same argument? It's difficult to call out those who are ostensibly on our side for making the rest of us look like assholes at the risk of losing their support. But imagine if enough Republicans stood up and called out the more extreme Trump supporters among them for the bigotry, etc. We'd be living in a very different country now, I suspect.

Let's be better than the Republicans who stood by and did nothing. Is that eating out own? Or is that actually trying to be better and not just hypocrites of a different color?
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  #103  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:33 PM
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This is possible, but so what? They also might be getting disproportionate attention. I don't know. But if Bernie has X million great supporters, plus a few thousand very vocal assholes, what does it matter if some other candidate has an even smaller ratio of assholes supporting them?
Because when 90% of the flies are landing in one spot, it's normal to wonder what smells like shit over there (and why no one is cleaning it up).

Last edited by Jophiel; 02-05-2020 at 03:36 PM.
  #104  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:34 PM
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It was a bit of a rhetorical comment. My point was that we should not go around pretending like our farts don't smell. Being a lib/prog/dem should not automatically make you immune from self-evaluation and pointing out of areas that need improvement. If we don't, you can bet that the other side will.







Not en-masse. Targeted.







If you have to ask, you're not.







How would you feel about a Trump supporter making the same argument? It's difficult to call out those who are ostensibly on our side for making the rest of us look like assholes at the risk of losing their support. But imagine if enough Republicans stood up and called out the more extreme Trump supporters among them for the bigotry, etc. We'd be living in a very different country now, I suspect.



Let's be better than the Republicans who stood by and did nothing. Is that eating out own? Or is that actually trying to be better and not just hypocrites of a different color?
It's not comparable to Trump. Trump is bad because of what Trump does and says. And Trump's supporters are fundamentally different by definition - they support Trump. Supporting Trump is inherently bad, no matter the reasons. Supporting Bernie is not.

We are better than the Republicans, with or without Bernie. Having a small but vocal portion of asshole supporters does not come close to being like Trump.

But it doesn't sound like we really disagree, except on what qualifies as en masse, broad attacks. Feel free to criticize all the individual assholery you see, but vague phrases like Bernie Bros are lazy and non specific enough that I recommend avoiding them.
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  #105  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:36 PM
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The OP is based on the premise that Trump won last time because of pouty Bernie Bros and, if we don't treat them with kid gloves this time, it'll happen again. If those supporters are cool with the xeno/homophobic nationalist getting a second term out of spite, that says a lot more about what sort of people support Sanders than it says about the people "sneering" at them and hurting their feelings.
I read someone's theory on Reddit---yes, I know----that the Bernie Bros were Rand Paulites previously, which makes sense if you look at Chapo Trap House and Joe Rogan---i.e., the "dirtbag Left." Contrarians who---like Rogan----think it's ever-so-edgy to ....say the same sexist, racist shit the Trumpies do. It's so rebellious to think Obama was norn in Kenya. Birtherism, transphobia, MRA-dickishness---that's not edgy, that is the fucking status quo that groups of people are subjected to every day of their lives. Those are the people Bernie courts, not Dems.
  #106  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:36 PM
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I like you, too, but this is stuff that Bernie says, or claims, not the actual facts. He didn't vote for the Iraq war technically, but he voted for the AUMF, for war in the Balkans, war planes, war funding, war actions, and had anti-war protesters thrown out of his office and arrested. And voting for an anti-choicer is the equivalent of saying, "So he burned a cross or two, ladies." Or whatever the equivalent is. That was in 2017, BTW, I think you have a typo. He won't "compromise" on this, that, or the other, but he will endorse somebody who wants to take womens' rights away, because "we can't reject people who disagree on just one issue." One issue, he says.



There's too many incidents where he's said things that wouldn't be excused if he were just Joe Blow. Then he apologizes. "You have to do more than say, 'I'm a woman, vote for me,' " from a guy who's been saying that or the equivalent for thirty years isn't a slip of the tongue. He and his loyalists have been really explicit that they think that's all women vote for----and offer as candidates.



We'll have to agree to disagree.
Fair enough. Hopefully you'll stand with me in voting for whoever the Democrats nominate, including Bernie.
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  #107  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:37 PM
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Neither Pete's gayhood nor Bernie's jewishdom have any bearing on anything whatsofuckingever. To a rational person, anyhoo.
If that was true, the competent and qualified lady with the pantsuit would be president now, and we would not be having this conversation.
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  #108  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:38 PM
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Because when 90% of the flies are landing in one spot, it's normal to wonder what smells like shit over there (and why no one is cleaning it up).
Most of them land on Trump. A few land on Bernie, or even other Democrats. But the vast majority of Bernie supporters are just fine.
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  #109  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:41 PM
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Most of them land on Trump.
I'm speaking about the primaries. But it's the Bernie guys who smugly threaten to let Trump win if we don't pander to them so I guess it makes sense that he'd be the #2 preferred destination.
  #110  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:41 PM
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If that was true, the competent and qualified lady with the pantsuit would be president now, and we would not be having this conversation.
That's you attributing Hillary's loss to her being a woman over any other factor.
What the hell is wrong with you ?!
  #111  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:42 PM
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It's not comparable to Trump. Trump is bad because of what Trump does and says. And Trump's supporters are fundamentally different by definition - they support Trump. Supporting Trump is inherently bad, no matter the reasons. Supporting Bernie is not.

We are better than the Republicans, with or without Bernie. Having a small but vocal portion of asshole supporters does not come close to being like Trump.

But it doesn't sound like we really disagree, except on what qualifies as en masse, broad attacks. Feel free to criticize all the individual assholery you see, but vague phrases like Bernie Bros are lazy and non specific enough that I recommend avoiding them.
Like I said, if Bernie is the nominee, he has my full and un-begrudging support. Period.

I single out for criticism only those Bernie supporters who specifically claim that they will not extend the same courtesy to other Dem nominees.
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  #112  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:47 PM
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That's you attributing Hillary's loss to her being a woman over any other factor.
What the hell is wrong with you ?!
Plenty wrong with HRC. Plenty. All of it having nothing to do with her being a woman. But not as much as there is wrong with Trump. And in a world where that suddenly matters, i.e. Anybody but Trump!, here we are still trying to convince SOME Bernie supporters to not fucking blow it for everyone. Again.
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  #113  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:57 PM
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Plenty wrong with HRC. Plenty. All of it having nothing to do with her being a woman. But not as much as there is wrong with Trump. And in a world where that suddenly matters, i.e. Anybody but Trump!, here we are still trying to convince SOME Bernie supporters to not fucking blow it for everyone. Again.
I'm sorry, I don't really follow ; or see how that follows from your earlier arguments rather. Do you think (some of) the non-linux red hatters voted for Trump because at least he wasn't no womyn ? That the gayitude of Buttigieg has some influence on his politics and his rapport to the political status quo ? That Bernie supporters, or even just Bernie-or-bust like him because he's Jewish ? What ? Gimme an Ariadne's thread ^^;

Last edited by Kobal2; 02-05-2020 at 03:58 PM.
  #114  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:11 PM
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Shit sandwich? To whom are you referring? If it's Hillary, stop whining when people call you sexist.
God how pathetic you are. The shit sandwich Iím referring to is Biden. Am I sexist for not wanting Biden? Am I sexist for not wanting Clinton for the exact same reasons I donít want Biden?

Thatís all youíve got. If you oppose Hillary, youíre sexist. No exceptions. Doesnít matter if you fucking donated a months salary and campaigned for Elizabeth Warren. Obviously sexist. Itís the only possibility.

The rest of your racist rant about how since you assume Iím white and male Iím undeserving of an opinion is as garbage as you are.
  #115  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:14 PM
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Neither Pete's gayhood nor Bernie's jewishdom have any bearing on anything whatsofuckingever. To a rational person, anyhoo.
Trump's got actual Nazi fanboys, plus there's all that George Soros/Qanon crap. It'll matter. They're probably drooling over the chance.
  #116  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:17 PM
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Most of them land on Trump. A few land on Bernie, or even other Democrats. But the vast majority of Bernie supporters are just fine.
I'm a Bernie person.

I hope he wins, but as long as things are fair, I will support whomever wins.
  #117  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:18 PM
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Trump's got actual Nazi fanboys, plus there's all that George Soros/Qanon crap. It'll matter. They're probably drooling over the chance.
You think either of those groups would vote for any_non_Jewish_Democrat ? You think any of their "arguments" (and I'm stretching that word to its breaking point) matter to anyone outside of their fucked up, disconnected circles ? Can I huff some of your glue ? I'll pass it back, I promise !

Last edited by Kobal2; 02-05-2020 at 04:19 PM.
  #118  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:25 PM
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God how pathetic you are. The shit sandwich Iím referring to is Biden. Am I sexist for not wanting Biden? Am I sexist for not wanting Clinton for the exact same reasons I donít want Biden?

Thatís all youíve got. If you oppose Hillary, youíre sexist. No exceptions. Doesnít matter if you fucking donated a months salary and campaigned for Elizabeth Warren. Obviously sexist. Itís the only possibility.

The rest of your racist rant about how since you assume Iím white and male Iím undeserving of an opinion is as garbage as you are.
I ASKED if you were referring to Hillary, you screeching hemorrhoidal derriere chapeau. YOU went off screaming in outrage, as if a guy contemptuously referring to an accomplished woman as a "shit sandwich" isn't sexist.

Oh, and hon? Bernie Bros said "they'd vote for a woman, just not Hillary" in 2016 and......now, in 2020, they......didn't. Kamala's out. Amy's getting shit that Berniacs would scream about, seeing as they handwave away his actual quotes and actions. And Warren? You want a cookie because you supported A woman after fucking ALL the women in the US in 2016? Plus, why are Bernie Bros supporting Tulsi again? Pro-Assad, Islamophobic, cultie, suing Hillary when Hillary didn't say either "Russians" or "Tulsi", pro-gay conversion "therapy"---SO liberal.

Gee, can't imagine why you code as "white Bro dude".
  #119  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:27 PM
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You think either of those groups would vote for any_non_Jewish_Democrat ? You think any of their "arguments" (and I'm stretching that word to its breaking point) matter to anyone outside of their fucked up, disconnected circles ? Can I huff some of your glue ? I'll pass it back, I promise !
Jeez, try decaf. I'm saying that Bernie's Jewish heritage will be used as a red flag to Trump's asshole fanboys.
  #120  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:28 PM
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Probable beats demonstrable tho
Well I would vote for Bernie over Trump fucking obviously.

Hell, let's not dither - I will vote for ANY non-republican over ANY republican, barring compelling evidence that the non-republican is, in literal fact, zombie Hitler. But having now acknowledged that who is actually running makes no difference, my druthers would be for our next president to at least start his term looking halfway spry.
  #121  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:32 PM
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That's you attributing Hillary's loss to her being a woman over any other factor.
What the hell is wrong with you ?!

Apparently, sexism doesn't exist. Thanks for that update. ALL the male candidates got criticized for being "shrill" and unlikable, ALL the male candidates got their clothing, hair, voice, marital relationship, and children criticized, ALL the male candidates got attacked by pundits who either made rape jokes about them on camera (Chris Matthews) or were interviewed and/or written about by serial sexual predators...Matt Lauer, Mark Helperin, Glenn Thrush, Charlie Rose.....but obviously, being a rapist or a harasser of women TOTES has no effect on one's opinion of women!

How silly of me!
  #122  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:35 PM
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I ASKED if you were referring to Hillary, you screeching hemorrhoidal derriere chapeau. YOU went off screaming in outrage, as if a guy contemptuously referring to an accomplished woman as a "shit sandwich" isn't sexist.

Oh, and hon? Bernie Bros said "they'd vote for a woman, just not Hillary" in 2016 and......now, in 2020, they......didn't. Kamala's out. Amy's getting shit that Berniacs would scream about, seeing as they handwave away his actual quotes and actions. And Warren? You want a cookie because you supported A woman after fucking ALL the women in the US in 2016? Plus, why are Bernie Bros supporting Tulsi again? Pro-Assad, Islamophobic, cultie, suing Hillary when Hillary didn't say either "Russians" or "Tulsi", pro-gay conversion "therapy"---SO liberal.

Gee, can't imagine why you code as "white Bro dude".
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Jeez, try decaf.
  #123  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:41 PM
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Jeez, try decaf. I'm saying that Bernie's Jewish heritage will be used as a red flag to Trump's asshole fanboys.
Yes, and in the immortal words of the Anti-Nowhere League, so fucking wot ?
  #124  
Old 02-05-2020, 04:53 PM
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This is the most bitter Pit thread I've seen in ages, and it is basically arguing over whether one shade of off-white is so vastly superior to others that it is ecru or nothing, so you beige motherfuckers can go die and I hope you're happy when shit turns out purple.
  #125  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:04 PM
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This is the most bitter Pit thread I've seen in ages, and it is basically arguing over whether one shade of off-white is so vastly superior to others that it is ecru or nothing, so you beige motherfuckers can go die and I hope you're happy when shit turns out purple.
Not really, though. There really is a rift between "actually progress" and "this is FINE" within the blue party. Ignore it at your peril.
  #126  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:04 PM
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Again and again I warn Sanders supporters of the importance of voting for whoever the Democratic candidate is. Again and again I warn Sanders detractors of the importance of not smearing all Sanders supporters with the behaviors of the worst Sanders supporters.

We could emphasize our commonalities and work together toward our shared aim.

Or we could act like a bunch of terrified ferrets shoved down a Yorkshireman's pants.

We got choices.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 02-05-2020 at 05:05 PM.
  #127  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:05 PM
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I'm sorry, but 'Shit Sandwich' is a genderless insult.

I just want a fair election.

Let's get along after this damn primary.

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  #128  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:13 PM
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Or we could act like a bunch of terrified ferrets shoved down a Yorkshireman's pants.
I call right nut.
  #129  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:14 PM
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Apparently, sexism doesn't exist. Thanks for that update. ALL the male candidates got criticized for being "shrill" and unlikable, ALL the male candidates got their clothing, hair, voice, marital relationship, and children criticized, ALL the male candidates got attacked by pundits who either made rape jokes about them on camera (Chris Matthews) or were interviewed and/or written about by serial sexual predators...Matt Lauer, Mark Helperin, Glenn Thrush, Charlie Rose.....but obviously, being a rapist or a harasser of women TOTES has no effect on one's opinion of women!

How silly of me!
Please re-read. Notice the "over any other factor" part. It is not, in fact, insignificant filler noise in written form.
ETA : also please notice the "To a rational person anyhoo" bit in the previous post. Thanks in advance.

Last edited by Kobal2; 02-05-2020 at 05:15 PM.
  #130  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:15 PM
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I ASKED if you were referring to Hillary, you screeching hemorrhoidal derriere chapeau. YOU went off screaming in outrage, as if a guy contemptuously referring to an accomplished woman as a "shit sandwich" isn't sexist.

Oh, and hon? Bernie Bros said "they'd vote for a woman, just not Hillary" in 2016 and......now, in 2020, they......didn't. Kamala's out. Amy's getting shit that Berniacs would scream about, seeing as they handwave away his actual quotes and actions. And Warren? You want a cookie because you supported A woman after fucking ALL the women in the US in 2016? Plus, why are Bernie Bros supporting Tulsi again? Pro-Assad, Islamophobic, cultie, suing Hillary when Hillary didn't say either "Russians" or "Tulsi", pro-gay conversion "therapy"---SO liberal.

Gee, can't imagine why you code as "white Bro dude".
Holy shit you’re stupid.

You preemptively told me that if I called voting for Hillary a shit sandwich then I was sexist. But if I was calling voting for Biden a shit sandwich for the exact same reason that’s irrelevant to you. You are the actual incarnation of what should be a right wing straw man - that there are people dumb enough to say that not supporting Hillary for any reason is always sexist. It’s pathetic.

Why you’re incredibly stupid reason number 2. You’re asking why Bernie Bros didn’t support Kamala and Warren and obviously that means they’re sexist hypocrites. But do you know why they didn’t do that? It’s really hard. Let’s think about it.

It’s okay. I’ll give you the answer. Because they’re fucking supporting Bernie. You know, the guy who defines the whole movement. Were they supposed to support Kamala Harris over Bernie to prove they weren’t sexist?

Also, you’re just making shit up. Who the fuck is supporting Tulsi? You’re literally just giving random actions that are negative and saying that’s what the Bernie bros are doing. They’re not, because for one thing they’re fucking supporting Bernie.

I code “white dude bro”. I have a fucking 20 year history on this message board of pretty obviously independent thought. I’m not even a “Bernie bro” in any meaningful sense, or is any supporter of Bernie a “Bernie bro”? You are the worst part of “woke” culture, insulting people based on what you perceive their race and gender to be and calling anyone who doesn’t support your ideas sexist. Absolutely pathetic. You are the dumbest shit stain in this thread, and that’s saying a lot.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 02-05-2020 at 05:19 PM.
  #131  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:35 PM
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This is the most bitter Pit thread I've seen in ages, and it is basically arguing over whether one shade of off-white is so vastly superior to others that it is ecru or nothing, so you beige motherfuckers can go die and I hope you're happy when shit turns out purple.
You sincerely see minimal policy and belief differences between Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders?

In any sane country, they arenít even on the same side of the spectrum.
  #132  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:39 PM
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You sincerely see minimal policy and belief differences between Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders?

In any sane country, they arenít even on the same side of the spectrum.
At the end of four years of each, how would the country be different?
  #133  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:41 PM
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That's you attributing Hillary's loss to her being a woman over any other factor.
What the hell is wrong with you ?!
Did she say that? Or did she say - correctly - the simple fact that her being a woman was a contributing factor, one good to specify when discussing -isms.

To wit:

Quote:
Never in my lifetime has there been more misogyny on display than during the 2016 election. It was disgusting. The biggest offender: Donald Trump. The flat-out derisive language and more subtle "messaging" were so prevalent that we began to accept it.

From attacking Carly Fiorina's appearance ("Look at that face. Would anyone vote for that?") to questioning the integrity of Fox host Megyn Kelly when she asked him in a debate about his long list of sexist comments ("She had blood coming out of her wherever," he later said), it was an endless barrage against women.

At the Republican National Convention it was even more baldly crude and crass. Writing for the Atlantic, one reporter observed the following merchandise for sale outside the convention hall.

"Black pin reading DON'T BE A PUSSY. VOTE FOR TRUMP IN 2016. Black-and-red pin reading TRUMP 2016: FINALLY SOMEONE WITH BALLS. White T-shirt reading TRUMP THAT BITCH. White T shirt reading HILLARY SUCKS BUT NOT LIKE MONICA. Red pin reading LIFE'S A BITCH: DON'T VOTE FOR ONE. White pin depicting a boy urinating on the word Hillary. Black T-shirt depicting Trump as a biker and Clinton falling off the motorcycle's back alongside the words IF YOU CAN READ THIS, THE BITCH FELL OFF. Black T-shirt depicting Trump as a boxer having just knocked Clinton to the floor of the ring, where she lies face-up in a clingy tank top. White pin advertising KFC HILLARY SPECIAL. 2 FAT THIGHS. 2 SMALL BREASTS ... LEFT WING.

Michelle Cottle, also writing in the Atlantic, cited this thought-provoking example of "two hecklers at a New Hampshire rally who waved signs and chanted, 'Iron my shirt!' Clinton laughed it off, and the incident was reported mostly as dumbass 20-something guys acting like dumbass 20-something guys. But if someone had yelled an equivalently demeaning remark at Obama -- like, say, 'Shine my shoes!' -- the public response likely would have been very different."

Of course, using sexism is also the laziest way to demean a woman. If you can't debate her ideas, just slam her appearance, her personality, her relationships and her likeability. Trump crossed the line all the time. Flustered during the debate because he couldn't out debate Clinton on policy, he just leaned into the mic and dismissed her entirely: "nasty woman."

He knew, perhaps instinctively, that this would not hurt him with a significant slice of the electorate, men and women. In fact, it likely helped. Consider, for example, that a 2016 PRRI/Atlantic poll found that 40% of respondents believe that America would be better off if women would "stick to the jobs and tasks they are naturally suited for" and that number is even higher among Trump supporters. This poll is not an outlier.
Oh, and according to "the accounts of four people: two people [Elizabeth] Warren spoke with directly soon after the encounter, and two people familiar with the meeting," and later Warren herself, Bernie said a woman can't win.

So yeah, sexism. Maybe you haven't been paying attention.
  #134  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:44 PM
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I'm sorry, I don't really follow ; or see how that follows from your earlier arguments rather. Do you think (some of) the non-linux red hatters voted for Trump because at least he wasn't no womyn ? That the gayitude of Buttigieg has some influence on his politics and his rapport to the political status quo ? That Bernie supporters, or even just Bernie-or-bust like him because he's Jewish ? What ? Gimme an Ariadne's thread ^^;
I'm saying there is non-trivial number of voters that will withhold their vote from a female candidate, a black candidate, a gay candidate, a jewish candidate, etc... And I'm not so polyanna-ish as to pretend that no bigot of that sort exists in the Dem tent. I have no numbers to back up my claim but I suspect there are more of those types of unwoke Dems than the ones who claim to have voted for Obama before they voted for Trump. The left is not immune from tribalism and bigotry and I think you know that. To say, 'Yeah, but no rational person... so who cares about those yahoos!', warms the cockles of my heart, but does not keep my brain from wondering if they'll stay home. Which is not to suggest IN ANY WAY they need to be obliged or catered to by not putting forward a female-gay-jew nominee. Just that they ought not be treated with kid gloves in order to keep them from voting for Trump out of spite.

Does that help? Tell me that helps.
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  #135  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:45 PM
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Yes, and in the immortal words of the Anti-Nowhere League, so fucking wot ?
You're an idiot if you ignore that, but that's really interesting. Men LOVE to say Hillary was "the most-disliked woman", a shit candidate, shucks people won't vote for a girl, Į\_(ツ)_/Į-----all by way of saying, "don't care." Now Bernie's facing the same thing, and they will use it. I guess mens' issues are invisible when a woman gets called "shrill" but a shouting asshole like Bernie gets treated as an adorable idealistic rebel.
  #136  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:45 PM
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Oh, and hon? Bernie Bros said "they'd vote for a woman, just not Hillary" in 2016 and......now, in 2020, they......didn't. Kamala's out. Amy's getting shit that Berniacs would scream about, seeing as they handwave away his actual quotes and actions. And Warren? You want a cookie because you supported A woman after fucking ALL the women in the US in 2016? Plus, why are Bernie Bros supporting Tulsi again? Pro-Assad, Islamophobic, cultie, suing Hillary when Hillary didn't say either "Russians" or "Tulsi", pro-gay conversion "therapy"---SO liberal.

Gee, can't imagine why you code as "white Bro dude".
This is my favorite bit of satire on that subject.
  #137  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:48 PM
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... as if a guy contemptuously referring to an accomplished woman as a "shit sandwich" isn't sexist.
*sigh*

You make me want to be sexist just so I am not on your side.

It is possible to not like a female candidate for reasons other than "she's a woman". Out of all of my options four years ago, Clinton was not at the top of my list. She won the nomination, and I dutifully pulled the lever for her (not that my vote matters here in Wyoming, but still...).

If Warren got the nom, I'd be ten times more excited about that vote than I was about Hillary Clinton. I just DON'T LIKE HRC. Not because I'm sexist, not for any reason aside from NOT LIKING HER. My not liking her doesn't detract from her qualifications, or her accomplishments, or anything else positive she might have going for her. I think as a model for women everywhere, for my daughters, she should be proud of what she has done... but I still don't LIKE her.
  #138  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:48 PM
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That reminds me, I need to read McSweeney's more. That was perfection.
  #139  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:50 PM
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Bernie supporters, a group of people who the only thing we’re grouping them by is their support for Bernie, should stop supporting Bernie and throw their support behind a woman instead, and if they don’t, that clearly demonstrates that they’re sexist?

Who else wants to come out and endorse this view?
  #140  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:52 PM
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Not really, though. There really is a rift between "actually progress" and "this is FINE" within the blue party. Ignore it at your peril.
Obama was a change in the right direction. Only an idiot didn't see that.

Trump is a whole lot of steps back from "this is fine." Only an idiot can't see that.

The chasm between Obama's progress and Trump's regress is fucking huge. Especially so if you are, say, a black person. Or a Muslim. Or a woman who desires control of her body. Or an immigrant. Or a lot of people.

Nice privilege you have there. Mighty white of you.
  #141  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:53 PM
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Ooh, if you feel like Bernie is from a different wing if the Democratic Party than Biden, you’re a privileged white asshole and maybe racist. Keep this wisdom coming.
  #142  
Old 02-05-2020, 06:00 PM
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Again and again I warn Sanders supporters of the importance of voting for whoever the Democratic candidate is. Again and again I warn Sanders detractors of the importance of not smearing all Sanders supporters with the behaviors of the worst Sanders supporters.
Your false equivalence is noted. If you know any Sanders supporters who say "I support Sanders but I will choose whomever wins the nomination unflinchingly" but are being abused so much they will suddenly change that opinion, show such people to the class. It'll sure as hell be a lot smaller list of people than the Bernie-or-Busters.

I once supported Bernie Sanders. Voted for him in the 2016 primary even after it was obvious he was a goner. And yet, I never felt that I was personally attacked when people complained about Bernie Bros because I knew I would do the right thing come November. Funny how that works.
  #143  
Old 02-05-2020, 06:06 PM
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Your false equivalence is noted. If you know any Sanders supporters who say "I support Sanders but I will choose whomever wins the nomination unflinchingly" but are being abused so much they will suddenly change that opinion, show such people to the class. It'll sure as hell be a lot smaller list of people than the Bernie-or-Busters.

I once supported Bernie Sanders. Voted for him in the 2016 primary even after it was obvious he was a goner. And yet, I never felt that I was personally attacked when people complained about Bernie Bros because I knew I would do the right thing come November. Funny how that works.
I don't feel attacked, but I know lots of young Bernie supporters (who say they will support the nominee) who do, and I think this kind of feeling and back-and-forth is helping Trump, and thus I recommend it stop. Because we'll need all those votes, whomever the nominee is, and unless vague and broad-brushed attacks aimed at Bernie supporters have some hidden anti-Trump upside that I'm unaware of, then we should refrain from these because they will inevitably turn off some voters that we'll need.
  #144  
Old 02-05-2020, 06:10 PM
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I don't feel attacked, but I know lots of young Bernie supporters (who say they will support the nominee) who do, and I think this kind of feeling and back-and-forth is helping Trump, and thus I recommend it stop. Because we'll need all those votes, whomever the nominee is, and unless vague and broad-brushed attacks aimed at Bernie supporters have some hidden anti-Trump upside that I'm unaware of, then we should refrain from these because they will inevitably turn off some voters that we'll need.
In all seriousness, I think that a lot of non-Bernies are feeling Burned by the fact that when there was a Bernie split last time, a nontrivial number of Berners either refrained from voting or crossed the aisle and voted Trump. With that history looming over our shoulders, it's not hard to see a group of people segregating themselves off as Bernie supporters specifically as history waiting to repeat itself.
  #145  
Old 02-05-2020, 06:14 PM
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In all seriousness, I think that a lot of non-Bernies are feeling Burned by the fact that when there was a Bernie split last time, a nontrivial number of Berners either refrained from voting or crossed the aisle and voted Trump. With that history looming over our shoulders, it's not hard to see a group of people segregating themselves off as Bernie supporters specifically as history waiting to repeat itself.
Sure. I supported Hillary in 2016 and I had some criticism for certain Bernie supporters too (like Susan Sarandon). I just don't think the vague-ish broad-brushing kind of attacks help anyone but Trump, and thus I think criticisms should be very specific and targeted.
  #146  
Old 02-05-2020, 06:15 PM
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Obama was a change in the right direction. Only an idiot didn't see that.

Trump is a whole lot of steps back from "this is fine." Only an idiot can't see that.

The chasm between Obama's progress and Trump's regress is fucking huge. Especially so if you are, say, a black person. Or a Muslim. Or a woman who desires control of her body. Or an immigrant. Or a lot of people.

Nice privilege you have there. Mighty white of you.
Regardless of Trump, Obama changed fuck all. Debate me with knives.
  #147  
Old 02-05-2020, 06:21 PM
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Regardless of Trump, Obama changed fuck all. Debate me with knives.
Fuck change. A steady hand on the tiller, thatís all we need I donít disagree with Bernieís policy proposals, but they donít mean shit if he canít beat Trump. And he canít. I wish he could
  #148  
Old 02-05-2020, 06:27 PM
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Fuck change. A steady hand on the tiller, that’s all we need
... respectfully, no, because *helplessly waves hand vaguely at everything*

ETA : and just as respectfully, if Bern really can't beat Trump ? Then fuck this Earth. I mean it.

Last edited by Kobal2; 02-05-2020 at 06:29 PM.
  #149  
Old 02-05-2020, 06:32 PM
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... respectfully, no, because *helplessly waves hand vaguely at everything*

ETA : and just as respectfully, if Bern really can't beat Trump ? Then fuck this Earth. I mean it.
I reached. ďFuck the earthĒ when Hillary didnít beat Trump
  #150  
Old 02-05-2020, 06:36 PM
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Well, I'm a generous soul. I can dig into myself and find it in there to give America a mulligan. ONE. And admittedly I'll have to be drunk at the time.
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