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Old 02-07-2020, 10:40 AM
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Warren campaign accused of racism in Nevada


Six women have quit Warren's Nevada campaign and accused the campaign of "tokenizing minorities"
"The staffers quoted, mostly on background, said the campaign on the ground did not live up to the candidate's rhetoric when it came to empowering women -- and women of color in particular."

They say they don't want to hurt Warren but "“Every election will always be the most important election of our lifetimes,” Lewis said. “Organizing culture needs to change because the fact is our well-being is more important than any election. I hope this starts a conversation that helps facilitate personal reflection about ways we can change campaign culture.”

Warren has apologized. ""I believe these women completely and without reservation and I apologize that they have had a bad experience on this campaign,""I also understand the long legacy of racism in this country and what it means and how it creates power dynamics and inequities that are toxic and dangerous. And that's why it's so important that we be constantly vigilant and determined to do better. I take personal responsibility for this and I'm working with my team to address these concerns."

Apparently all of these women who quit were low level organizers frustrated that they weren't being listened to.

It may be that the Warren campaign is a hotbed of racism, but that seems unlikely.
The more likely explanation is that these women were inexperienced and thought they knew more than they did. Every campaign has disaffected young staffers who think that they should be making policy and strategic decisions instead of manning phone banks and licking envelopes. The attitude of the woman who said that her feelings were more important than who won the election shows how selfish her complaint was.

Instead of investigating the charges and finding out if they are true, Warren immediately threw her staff under the bus, said that the power dynamics within the campaign were toxic and dangerous. This is the opposite of leadership.

The more time Warren spends on the national stage, the more obvious it is she is exactly the type of person who should not be in politics and should be kept away from power.

Last edited by puddleglum; 02-07-2020 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 02-07-2020, 10:54 AM
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I have no idea what happened in Nevada, but if there's one thing I'd personally like the party to get away from it's identity politics. I get that identity and inclusion are important, but saying things like we have to have a minority candidate or a female candidate win the nomination or the party's guilty of exclusion....no.

Warren really played up the identity angle, and over the course of her political career - and even before it - she's been engaging in identity politics. That kind of politics attracts identity activists, who obsess over the politics of identity. Inevitably, white women (like white men) like Warren will have blind spots that will be exposed when it comes to diversity. Candidates can be inclusive without making it a centerpiece of their campaign messaging.
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Old 02-07-2020, 11:21 AM
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I’ve worked/volunteered on numerous campaigns and yes, it’s very common to have bright eyed ambitious intelligent people join a campaign and think they’ll set the world on fire only to find out that so much of the work is grunt work organizing volunteers and trying to meet goals like you’re a retail store manager. My key was to enjoy the fascinating people I’d meet and enjoy the long drives, cheap drink nights and late night bull sessions but realize I’m doing over 40 hours of grunt work per week for starvation wages with no long term future.

And, in Warren’s case she has a 3rd place finish in Iowa, 3rd in most New Hampshire polls and who knows what the internals are showing for NV. Nevada is a notoriously difficult place to poll plus winning a Democratic caucus is so dependent on the unions and whatever strings Harry Reid is pulling behind the scenes. You don’t normally see people jumping ship en masse from a campaign that’s going well.
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Old 02-07-2020, 12:06 PM
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The Warren campaign isn't the only one. The Buttigieg campaign also has minority employees whining about how being asked to do basic tasks leaves them "feeling disrespected" and dealing with "emotional weight" and all that garbage. So naturally the campaign put its work on hold for a "mandatory half-day retreat about diversity and inclusion", which of course did not solve the problem, so then there was a meeting to follow-up to the retreat, and then a follow-up to the follow-up, etc... They distributed a questionnaire asking about "microaggressions" and other hogshit. Presumably the emotional support puppies will be arriving soon.

This is part of the reason why I'm starting to think that Bernie will win the nomination, now that Biden is fading. Bernie has a large crowd of fanatical true believers who are madly in love with the dream of socialized factories building electric scooters financed by wealth taxes on billionaires, and in pursuit of that dream they're willing to donate money, work long hours for little or no pay, and do whatever needs to be done. Warren and Buttigieg have both chosen to present themselves as the candidates of extreme political correctness, so naturally the people they attract most are spoiled brats who expect to be coddled, praised, and generally treated like royalty at all times. To win an election, you have to spend the available money and time on winning by convincing people to vote for you. How can you win if you have to spend resources babysitting spoiled children on your own staff?

And I wonder whether any Democrats are aware of how ridiculous and repulsive this sort of thing looks to many working-class voters?
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Old 02-07-2020, 12:16 PM
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I disagree that Buttigieg has in any way presented himself as a candidate of "extreme political correctness."
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Old 02-07-2020, 12:22 PM
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And I can guarantee that any campaign is going to have activists and they’re going to be hard to manage at times. Many people that go to work for these campaigns are especially bright and talented and are ready to set the world on fire and that often clashes with the boring grunt work of a campaign.
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Old 02-07-2020, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
Six women have quit Warren's Nevada campaign and accused the campaign of "tokenizing minorities"
"The staffers quoted, mostly on background, said the campaign on the ground did not live up to the candidate's rhetoric when it came to empowering women -- and women of color in particular."

They say they don't want to hurt Warren but "“Every election will always be the most important election of our lifetimes,” Lewis said. “Organizing culture needs to change because the fact is our well-being is more important than any election. I hope this starts a conversation that helps facilitate personal reflection about ways we can change campaign culture.”

Warren has apologized. ""I believe these women completely and without reservation and I apologize that they have had a bad experience on this campaign,""I also understand the long legacy of racism in this country and what it means and how it creates power dynamics and inequities that are toxic and dangerous. And that's why it's so important that we be constantly vigilant and determined to do better. I take personal responsibility for this and I'm working with my team to address these concerns."

Apparently all of these women who quit were low level organizers frustrated that they weren't being listened to.

It may be that the Warren campaign is a hotbed of racism, but that seems unlikely.
The more likely explanation is that these women were inexperienced and thought they knew more than they did. Every campaign has disaffected young staffers who think that they should be making policy and strategic decisions instead of manning phone banks and licking envelopes. The attitude of the woman who said that her feelings were more important than who won the election shows how selfish her complaint was.

Instead of investigating the charges and finding out if they are true, Warren immediately threw her staff under the bus, said that the power dynamics within the campaign were toxic and dangerous. This is the opposite of leadership.

The more time Warren spends on the national stage, the more obvious it is she is exactly the type of person who should not be in politics and should be kept away from power.
What exactly do you want Warren to say? "I don't believe these women and I don't think they had a bad experience on my campaign?" Also, I don't see anything in that quotation to suggest she's "throwing her staff under the bus."
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Old 02-07-2020, 12:57 PM
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What a terrible take on a difficult situation. Her statement was exactly the kind of leadership we need. She is apologetic and taking responsibility. But I guess you want to hear “those women are just lazy whiners”. Please.
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Old 02-07-2020, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Fretful Porpentine View Post
What exactly do you want Warren to say? "I don't believe these women and I don't think they had a bad experience on my campaign?" Also, I don't see anything in that quotation to suggest she's "throwing her staff under the bus."
See this post and the one directly underneath it.
One take is that women are supposed to be believed absolutely. The other is that you take a more rational approach and try to find out if anything was done wrong that needed to be addressed.

Of course, if no finding of anything happens, then we are stuck with them not believing the accusers ...
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Old 02-07-2020, 01:22 PM
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No, we are stuck with not having a clear certainty, and simply going ahead and doing the best we can.
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Old 02-07-2020, 01:26 PM
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And it could be very true that they’re both right. The campaign staffers could have taken the job thinking they’d be providing insight and strategy and found themselves doing a different job. And it’s also possible that Warren is concerned and may have senior staff be more explicit about job expectations when hiring staff.
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Old 02-07-2020, 01:52 PM
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Instead of investigating the charges and finding out if they are true, Warren immediately threw her staff under the bus, said that the power dynamics within the campaign were toxic and dangerous.
How do you know they weren't investigated? I find it entirely plausible that this particular campaign office was run by a manager who happened to be the sort of person who treats minorities in a hostile patronizing manner, and that HR, didn't want to rock the boat. This sort of thing is happening all the time in offices all over the country.

I don't see that this indicates a fundamental problem with Warren or her campaign. Unless similar allegations are raised at other of her headquarters, I am going to conclude that it was probably just one bad apple who got through the screening process.
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Old 02-07-2020, 01:55 PM
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How do you know they weren't investigated? I find it entirely plausible that this particular campaign office was run by a manager who happened to be the sort of person who treats minorities in a hostile patronizing manner, and that HR, didn't want to rock the boat. This sort of thing is happening all the time in offices all over the country.

I don't see that this indicates a fundamental problem with Warren or her campaign. Unless similar allegations are raised at other of her headquarters, I am going to conclude that it was probably just one bad apple who got through the screening process.
How do you conclude anything?
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Old 02-07-2020, 02:09 PM
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The sheer glee with which conservatives amplify any internal disagreements among progressives, and the alacrity with which they reach the conclusion that brown women are disaffected, selfish, and whining, is as gross as it is predictable.

The claim that working-class people object to Sanders is as irrelevant as it is incorrect. Voters making less than 75K overwhelmingly prefer Sanders.

Quote:
Sanders is satisfactory to the nominee among 62% of those with annual incomes of $10,000 or less, 7.7 percentage points higher than his performance overall.
63% among voters with an income of $10,000 to $25,000 (+8.7 percentage points)
56% among voters with an income of $25,000 to $50,000 (+1.8 percentage points)
55% among voters with an income of $50,000 to $75,000 (+1 percentage point)
Sure, there are some working-class voters who hate Sanders, no question. But I have this sneaky suspicion that they didn't ask ITR Champion to be their champion.
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Old 02-07-2020, 02:21 PM
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What exactly do you want Warren to say? "I don't believe these women and I don't think they had a bad experience on my campaign?"
Well, by choosing to be the candidate running on political correctness, Warren put herself in a situation where there's no good answer.

Most people hate political correctness. Most Democrats hate it. Most men and most women hate it, most blacks and whites and all other groups hate it.

The two politicians currently going who have shown the ability to raise and sustain massive support both know this and use it. Donald Trump leans into it. Bernie Sanders has largely ignored or dismissed complaints about sexism on his staff or supporters who have made politically incorrect comments, most recently when he was endorsed by Joe Rogan. Trump and Bernie get it. They understand that most voters don't want leaders who act cowardly and beg for forgiveness in the face of accusations of racism, sexism, transphobia, or whatever. They take a page from Monty Python: don't grovel and don't apologize.

Warren has instead embraced every part of identity politics and taken every opportunity to brag about how she'll totally believe every complaint of oppression and do everything that the allegedly oppressed want, even to the point of absurdity. (Remember this?) So when her campaign is on the receiving end of accusations of racism, even ones as obviously ridiculous as the ones in the OP, she's kind of stuck.

The same problem afflicts a lot of left-wing organizations. Perhaps they should talk about it at some point.
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Old 02-07-2020, 02:26 PM
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And we should be nicer.
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Old 02-07-2020, 02:28 PM
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Bernie has a large crowd of fanatical true believers who are madly in love with the dream of socialized factories building electric scooters financed by wealth taxes on billionaires...
None of them believe that and that is not what Bernie is selling.

(Maybe one or two loons believe that...there are a few in every group that are out on the fringes with a weak grasp on reality.)
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Old 02-07-2020, 02:28 PM
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It's an issue bigger than Warren. Democrats have made themselves vulnerable in this regard, as ITR Champion pointed out - to being hoisted on their own petard.
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Old 02-07-2020, 04:30 PM
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Well, by choosing to be the candidate running on political correctness, Warren put herself in a situation where there's no good answer.

Most people hate political correctness. Most Democrats hate it. Most men and most women hate it, most blacks and whites and all other groups hate it.
This is the most impressive bit of equivocation I have ever seen.

The poll asks people, point blank, if political correctness has gone too far. "Political correctness" is a deliberate slur. While a vanishingly small number of people have used it unironically as a self-label, overwhelmingly its use is to denigrate its object. Asking people if it's gone too far is like asking, "Are bad things bad?" Of course most people say yes to this dumbass question.

So you take the response to this poll about the term, and then suggest that because you've concluded that the term fits Warren, she's trapped herself.

This is almost a thing of beauty.
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Old 02-07-2020, 04:36 PM
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What exactly do you want Warren to say? "I don't believe these women and I don't think they had a bad experience on my campaign?" Also, I don't see anything in that quotation to suggest she's "throwing her staff under the bus."
I would have liked her to say that she takes the accusations seriously but that the claims need to be investigated.

She said "I believe these women completely and without reservation" The article quotes her 5 hours after the initial story came out.

Her believing the worst of her staff after no investigation is throwing them under the bus. Treating accusations as unquestionable is how injustice happens.
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Old 02-07-2020, 04:59 PM
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Instead of investigating the charges and finding out if they are true, Warren immediately threw her staff under the bus, said that the power dynamics within the campaign were toxic and dangerous. This is the opposite of leadership.

The more time Warren spends on the national stage, the more obvious it is she is exactly the type of person who should not be in politics and should be kept away from power.
This is a terrible take. If you say you believe women, you should actually believe them. And 5 hours is plenty of time to talk to your staff and find out what was going on and why these people were frustrated.

And from the article:

Quote:
The women said the issues within the campaign hurt the larger effort to marshal votes, particularly in the state's large Latino communities. Spanish-language literature didn’t arrive until late in the fall despite repeated requests from many staffers. There were too few Spanish-speaking organizers, the former staffers said, despite asking the campaign to hire more. They felt it was a constant battle to set up events in Spanish.
You are running a Democratic primary campaign in Nevada and don't have Spanish-language literature until the fall?!!! What in the world? The staff probably should be thrown under the bus for that failure.
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Old 02-07-2020, 05:14 PM
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The claim that working-class people object to Sanders is as irrelevant as it is incorrect. Voters making less than 75K overwhelmingly prefer Sanders.

Sure, there are some working-class voters who hate Sanders, no question. But I have this sneaky suspicion that they didn't ask ITR Champion to be their champion.
You didn't quote a specific post but the one by ITR Champion I noticed saying working class voters hate PC (pretty clear from various polls, doesn't even vary much by race) didn't mention Sanders but rather Warren and Buttigieg. And although there is no objective scale for measuring PC (although absurd to say 'it doesn't exist'), I think a lot of people would agree Sanders is less PC than most major figures in the Democratic Party, including some people who are disturbed he isn't more PC. I don't see that as a major difference in perception of Sanders v. Biden, whether or not there was some earlier post I missed saying that.

Also though it's not immediately clear from either your post or in fairness the linked article or even 100% clear from the supporting info on the poll but it appears the preference among Democratic candidates is only counted for respondents deemed likely to participate in their state's Democratic primary/caucus. So it isn't directly relevant to the Democrats' challenge with white working class voters in a general election. In which again I didn't notice anyone else say and I don't believe Sanders is in a worse position than Biden on touchy-feely persona and style aspect. Although Sanders' proposals along with insistence on calling *himself* a 'socialist' for so long could make him much less electable than Biden with a wide range of voters. Or maybe it wouldn't. But just to say, the PC/elitist issue doesn't particular distinguish Sanders and Biden IMO besides not noticing anyone else saying that. I think it does distinguish Warren: it's a much bigger problem for her in a general. It could distinguish Buttigieg, a much less well known figure than the other three with the non-politics junky public, who has more opportunity/risk to define himself or be defined negatively.

Last edited by Corry El; 02-07-2020 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 02-07-2020, 07:57 PM
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This is a terrible take. If you say you believe women, you should actually believe them. And 5 hours is plenty of time to talk to your staff and find out what was going on and why these people were frustrated.
We should believe women because they are uniquely angelic and would never lie, mischaracterize, or otherwise deceive? Women are made from the same crooked timber as men. Five hours is not nearly enough time to get to the bottom of what happened, just enough time to make snap judgments based on stereotypes and accusations.
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:06 PM
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You didn't quote a specific post but the one by ITR Champion I noticed saying working class voters hate PC (pretty clear from various polls, doesn't even vary much by race) didn't mention Sanders but rather Warren and Buttigieg.
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Originally Posted by ITR
This is part of the reason why I'm starting to think that Bernie will win the nomination, now that Biden is fading. Bernie has a large crowd of fanatical true believers who are madly in love with the dream of socialized factories building electric scooters financed by wealth taxes on billionaires, and in pursuit of that dream they're willing to donate money, work long hours for little or no pay, and do whatever needs to be done. Warren and Buttigieg have both chosen to present themselves as the candidates of extreme political correctness, so naturally the people they attract most are spoiled brats who expect to be coddled, praised, and generally treated like royalty at all times. To win an election, you have to spend the available money and time on winning by convincing people to vote for you. How can you win if you have to spend resources babysitting spoiled children on your own staff?

And I wonder whether any Democrats are aware of how ridiculous and repulsive this sort of thing looks to many working-class voters?
Emphasis added.

Now, his antecedent for "this sort of thing" is unclear. It's completely possible that he was just offering an unhinged rant about Sanders that had nothing whatsoever to do with the topic. I gave him the courtesy of thinking that his rant, however absurd, was at least related to the topic. But on rereading, I suspect you're right: "this sort of thing" referred to his bizarro-world beliefs about Warren and Buttigieg, and the Sanders thing was 100% unrelated.
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Old 02-07-2020, 10:05 PM
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We should believe women because they are uniquely angelic and would never lie, mischaracterize, or otherwise deceive? Women are made from the same crooked timber as men. Five hours is not nearly enough time to get to the bottom of what happened, just enough time to make snap judgments based on stereotypes and accusations.
I see you completely chopped off part of my post that quoted from the article itself which showed Warren's campaign in Nevada was acting incompetent in areas of Latine outreach. It was literally in the article.

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Old 02-08-2020, 02:24 AM
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None of them believe that and that is not what Bernie is selling.

(Maybe one or two loons believe that...there are a few in every group that are out on the fringes with a weak grasp on reality.)
It was an exaggeration. The point was that Bernie attracts true believers motivated by a vision for massively changing American society and the economy. The others don't.
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Old 02-08-2020, 11:10 AM
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Emphasis added.

Now, his antecedent for "this sort of thing" is unclear. It's completely possible that he was just offering an unhinged rant about Sanders that had nothing whatsoever to do with the topic. I gave him the courtesy of thinking that his rant, however absurd, was at least related to the topic. But on rereading, I suspect you're right: "this sort of thing" referred to his bizarro-world beliefs about Warren and Buttigieg, and the Sanders thing was 100% unrelated.
OK I guess that could be read different ways. So I would just repeat my point whether it's really the same as ITR's or different:
-hyperbole aside in that post, I think it's indeed possible that Sanders' policy positions, long held habit of calling himself a socialist, and the flamboyant radicalism of at least some of his supporters, could cost the Democrats the race against Trump.

Although that's not necessarily a matter of just or even mainly working class voters. And I'm not sure the degree. I'm skeptical of people who are very sure about political outcomes nowadays.

-Sanders does not IMO have as much of a problem with the less directly policy oriented issue of PC and the culture wars, which is a real problem for the Democrats with white working class and non-solidly left general election voters overall. Not as much as Warren would, for sure. Buttigieg OTOH is still an unknown basically in terms of the general electorate.
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Old 02-08-2020, 11:59 AM
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-hyperbole aside in that post, I think it's indeed possible that Sanders' policy positions, long held habit of calling himself a socialist, and the flamboyant radicalism of at least some of his supporters, could cost the Democrats the race against Trump.

Although that's not necessarily a matter of just or even mainly working class voters. And I'm not sure the degree. I'm skeptical of people who are very sure about political outcomes nowadays.
Yeah, it's possible. People who point out that it's possible are making a perfectly valid point. People who exaggerate to that degree and sound cocksure about it are being ridiculous and should not be taken seriously. Same for people who misrepresent their cites so consistently.
Quote:
Sanders does not IMO have as much of a problem with the less directly policy oriented issue of PC and the culture wars, which is a real problem for the Democrats with white working class and non-solidly left general election voters overall. Not as much as Warren would, for sure. Buttigieg OTOH is still an unknown basically in terms of the general electorate.
Can you be specific? I don't doubt that there are a lot of white people (working class and wealthy, it's not a class thing) that have beliefs that you might consider "culture war" and I might consider "pretty fucking bigoted." But it's tricky to discuss them in vague generalities.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:43 AM
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... Can we get any concrete examples? How are we to know the complaints are legitimate and not a Jody Wilson-Raybould type of thing where people are crying racism/sexism because they’re not getting their own way on everything?

That being said, I do agree with other posters that this is an example of how weaving identity politics too heavily into your brand is a bad idea because the slightest missteps can be weaponized against you. You have to be perfect for it to not risk backfiring on you.
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:18 AM
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Most people hate political correctness. Most Democrats hate it. Most men and most women hate it, most blacks and whites and all other groups hate it.
I read that whole article and at no time do they ever define "political correctness". What a waste of time; why would you bring such a useless and stupid cite?
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