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  #201  
Old 02-14-2020, 02:59 PM
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He's referring to words you typed and posted. You used the word "smear" to describe spreading around Sanders' Castro praise. Do a text search if you've forgotten already.
I said they would try to smear Bernie as a communist. Bernie is not a communist, and never has been. Calling him a communist would be a smear. Carville and Trump have called Bernie a communist -- they have attempted to smear Bernie.

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  #202  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:01 PM
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No, James. You're not a Communist. Youíre a pointless wonk with a big mouth. You are, quite literally, the ugly face of soulless, technocratic neoliberalism.

I mean, say what you want about the tenets of Communism but at least it's an ethos.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:04 PM
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He said Bernie's a communist. So did Trump.

That's ridiculous. Carville is wrong.

Heís worse than wrong. Heís a liar. I mean, Trumpís such a dumb shit that I can just about believe that he really thinks Bernie really is a Communist. Carville doesnít get the benefit of the doubt on that.
  #204  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:22 PM
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I said they would try to smear Bernie as a communist. Bernie is not a communist, and never has been. Calling him a communist would be a smear. Carville and Trump have called Bernie a communist -- they have attempted to smear Bernie.
They donít have to use the word. They just have to play the tapes. Itís very hard to argue with yourself.
  #205  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:27 PM
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They don’t have to use the word. They just have to play the tapes. It’s very hard to argue with yourself.
Bernie has never identified as a communist, and has explicitly rejected that label (and of course they're going to use that word - they've been doing so for years!). And those tapes aren't new (and I don't think they're nearly as damning as you seem to). Bernie has been well known as a self identified socialist for 4 years now. I don't think it's that scary any more. We'll see.
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  #206  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:51 PM
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And considering all the communists, authoritarians, and white supremacists Trump has praised just in the last 3 years, I'm skeptical that a 30 something year old video of Bernie that's been well known and well spread for 4 years will really be all that influential.
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  #207  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:53 PM
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Bernie has never identified as a communist, and has explicitly rejected that label (and of course they're going to use that word - they've been doing so for years!). And those tapes aren't new (and I don't think they're nearly as damning as you seem to). Bernie has been well known as a self identified socialist for 4 years now. I don't think it's that scary any more. We'll see.
He didnít even win the nomination in 2016 with democrats so thatís not the best argument. Now heís going for swing voters and independents in parts of the country where socialist and communist are synonymous and about as negative as calling someone a pedophile. So agree to disagree.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:54 PM
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Bernie seems like he might be a communist. I don't think he'd admit it because it would damage his extremely high electability on his very popular policies of first World health care for USA and less power for ultra rich (more money than can be earnt in lifetime of vampire).

But go Bernie. Hopefully secret commie
  #209  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:55 PM
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And considering all the communists, authoritarians, and white supremacists Trump has praised just in the last 3 years, I'm skeptical that a 30 something year old video of Bernie that's been well known and well spread for 4 years will really be all that influential.
He is a socialist. You want the election to hinge on an intelligent and nuanced conversation about the ideological differences between socialism and communism? In America? Good luck with that.
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:00 PM
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He is a socialist. You want the election to hinge on an intelligent and nuanced conversation about the ideological differences between socialism and communism? In America? Good luck with that.
That's not going to happen no matter what. This will be a clash of feelings, as it always is. I think Bernie brings the best chance of a feelings based victory. I don't think socialism is scary any more.
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  #211  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:04 PM
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He is a socialist. You want the election to hinge on an intelligent and nuanced conversation about the ideological differences between socialism and communism? In America? Good luck with that.
I would argue that the only ones buying into "socialism is bad. Mmmkay" are the die hard Trump supporters. Most independents and dems already know the differences.
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  #212  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:09 PM
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I would argue that the only ones buying into "socialism is bad. Mmmkay" are the die hard Trump supporters. Most independents and dems already know the differences.
I'm almost positive you are incorrect. I daresay, most voters couldn't name you one difference between the two. Nor do they care to really learn.

Sure, they may like their police force, city parks, state parks, public libraries, fire rescue, public schools, publicly-funded roads, safe-to-eat-at restaurants, medicare, etc., but that, to most people, ain't socialism.

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  #213  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:24 PM
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I would argue that the only ones buying into "socialism is bad. Mmmkay" are the die hard Trump supporters. Most independents and dems already know the differences.
I think you couldnít be more wrong.
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:31 PM
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This was from 4 days ago. Socialism is still the biggest liability in American politics. More than being atheist or Muslim.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/285563/...abilities.aspx
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:51 PM
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I think you couldnít be more wrong.
At 45% among independents saying they would vote for a socialist; I don't think that qualifies as "more wrong". That's with in the margin of error or close to it.

And after the primaries, I'd be currious to see an updated poll on this subject.
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:07 PM
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At 45% among independents saying they would vote for a socialist; I don't think that qualifies as "more wrong". That's with in the margin of error or close to it.

And after the primaries, I'd be currious to see an updated poll on this subject.
Ok you could be more wrong but not by much. The poll clearly shows being a socialist is the biggest political liability in American politics. And thatís using his own term.
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:37 PM
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Helicopter avatar warning against socialism, nice
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:39 PM
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I said they would try to smear Bernie as a communist. Bernie is not a communist, and never has been. Calling him a communist would be a smear. Carville and Trump have called Bernie a communist -- they have attempted to smear Bernie.
L: Iím talking about his own words coming back to bury him in 30 second increments on tv.
A: are you saying they will try to smear Bernie as a communist?
L: Itís hard to characterize someoneís own words as a smear. Is the tape of Bloomberg a smear?
A: I never said it was a smear. I'm not sure what you're asking me about related to anything I've said.
  #219  
Old 02-14-2020, 05:44 PM
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He is a socialist. You want the election to hinge on an intelligent and nuanced conversation about the ideological differences between socialism and communism? In America? Good luck with that.
...propaganda relies on a certain amount of "buy-in" from people in order for it to work. Arguing that many Americans aren't going to have an intelligent and nuanced conversation about the ideological differences between socialism and communism is an entirely fair point to make.

But this?

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He may have mellowed with age but he has expressed a lot more solidarity with communist governments and communist systems than any democrat candidate ever. He might as well be a communist. As it is he is an avowed socialist which might as well be the same thing.
This is entirely a different thing. This is buying into the propaganda. This is propagating the propaganda. You don't fight propaganda by buying into the propaganda. Its entirely fair to argue that many will conflate socialism with communism. But that isn't what you did here. You know that Bernie isn't a communist no matter how much solidarity he allegedly has with communist governments and systems. It isn't even close to the same thing.
  #220  
Old 02-14-2020, 05:47 PM
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That's nuts. Bernie's advocating for policies like Canada, Denmark, Finland, etc.
You know that. I know that. But the majority of voters will only hear "Socialist" and "Communist" and that's more than enough to send him crashing down. And you must realize that many--maybe a plurality--of US voters already think that Canada, Denmark, and Finland are Communist states.
  #221  
Old 02-14-2020, 05:57 PM
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The conventional wisdom said Trump was a weak candidate, and the "centrist" Hillary Clinton would beat him. So did my instincts. All that stuff is crap. We just don't know -- all these predictions are no better than wild guesses at this point. Nate Silver says we know almost nothing about electability, and I'm going with his analysis over random internet folks and even talking heads like Carville.

So I'm going with the candidate who best matches me on policy, and who I think is getting the most people excited. So far, I've been called and visited in person about 10 times -- 9 times (and all the in-person visits at my house) by Bernie volunteers, and 1 Bloomberg phonecall (who probably wasn't a volunteer). And from the polling I've seen, Bernie is doing as well against Trump as anyone lately, not that this tells us much this early. And I like his policies best. So I'm supporting Bernie, and I urge others to as well.
That's cool. So long as you support him in the primary but switch allegiance to the nominee if it isn't Sanders. It's the folks who will "vote"* for Sanders in the General Election even if he's not nominated that I'm worried about.



*They'll do this by either:

1. Not voting at all
2. Voting for some 4th party Communist
3. Writing in Che Guevara
4. Killing themselves and their cat
  #222  
Old 02-14-2020, 05:58 PM
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Just on electionable popularity wise, Sanders (Bernie) has the numbers with his communism. I think your country (USA) is turning good now
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:01 PM
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L: Iím talking about his own words coming back to bury him in 30 second increments on tv.
A: are you saying they will try to smear Bernie as a communist?
L: Itís hard to characterize someoneís own words as a smear. Is the tape of Bloomberg a smear?
A: I never said it was a smear. I'm not sure what you're asking me about related to anything I've said.
Okay, thanks. Bernie is not a communist, and never has been. Calling him a communist would be a smear. Carville and Trump have called Bernie a communist -- they have attempted to smear Bernie.

I didn't understand what smear was being referred to, since Bernie has never been on tape claiming to be a communist.
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:03 PM
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You know that. I know that. But the majority of voters will only hear "Socialist" and "Communist" and that's more than enough to send him crashing down. And you must realize that many--maybe a plurality--of US voters already think that Canada, Denmark, and Finland are Communist states.
This is definitely the conventional wisdom, but I don't believe this is the case any more. I don't think "socialist" is scary to a majority of voters any more, and I don't think "communist" will stick any more than it has for every other Democrat that it's been used against.
  #225  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:04 PM
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Convincing you isnít relevant. The fact that left wing folks like Carville are calling Comrade Sanders a communist is huge and signals a real fear that will be convincing to others.
Precisely. It's tempting for Democrats to assume that the electorate has common sense. I get that. But it would be a mistake.
  #226  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:07 PM
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Genuine concern that Bernie is "too socialist" and WON'T be elected right here in this thread
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:08 PM
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And there are people in other threads that agree with me! What fun! I wonder which wild guess will happen to be true/more influential with the most people for 2020? Tune in for the next several months and we'll find out!
I wonder what the betting odds are that the next president will be "Someone Other Than Bernie Sanders"? I would take those odds, if I were to bet on such things.

Even if the odds are something like 1/10 (a $10 bet wins you $1) it's sweet, sweet, free money.

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  #228  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:13 PM
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Precisely. It's tempting for Democrats to assume that the electorate has common sense. I get that. But it would be a mistake.
That's not what I'm assuming. I think Bernie is running a great vague and non-specific campaign. Few details on how to pay for everything -- and GOOD! Details will get him in trouble. Big ideas and big promises with little on the how-to... as it should be!

He's running on feelings. And he's got the excitement, at least AFAICT. He's been the most skilled politician in the primary so far, and IMO, it's not even close. Maybe Bloomberg will start to catch up a bit, but we'll see. I don't think Bloomberg will inspire the excitement and feelings that Bernie does.

I want a savvy politician who plays to the crowds and to the public but has them convinced that it's all genuine passion and purity. Which, in Bernie's case, is probably 75% true -- but that remaining 25% is ruthless, calculating savviness. At least, that's what I think so far. We'll see, but IMO so far Bernie is the ruthless, skilled politician we need.

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  #229  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:17 PM
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...propaganda relies on a certain amount of "buy-in" from people in order for it to work. Arguing that many Americans aren't going to have an intelligent and nuanced conversation about the ideological differences between socialism and communism is an entirely fair point to make.

But this?



This is entirely a different thing. This is buying into the propaganda. This is propagating the propaganda. You don't fight propaganda by buying into the propaganda. Its entirely fair to argue that many will conflate socialism with communism. But that isn't what you did here. You know that Bernie isn't a communist no matter how much solidarity he allegedly has with communist governments and systems. It isn't even close to the same thing.
Itís not my job to fight propaganda. If you want to put me on the anti-propaganda payroll give me an offer.

If I put ďsocialism is not communismĒ as my sig it wonít make a bit of difference. Thatís not even the point. Iím having a discussion about how Iím guessing the election will go. This conversation is not going beyond this board and will not affect one vote. Iím not propagating anything. Thatís how I think the vote will go. Iím not going to pretend thatís not how it will go. Maybe Iím wrong and voters are much more open minded. So far I havenít seen evidence of that in my life but hope springs eternal right?
  #230  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:18 PM
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It's specific. Stop people in a first world country from dying because they can't afford seeing a doctor.

Don't start wars so much, that's a bit more vague
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:24 PM
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Okay, thanks.
You're welcome but you sure seem to have trouble following the nuance of conversations you're actively participating in. Maybe the next time you're about to say "that has nothing to do with what I posted", you should do a couple read throughs. It's kind of frustrating that you forget what happen ened two posts ago.

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  #232  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:27 PM
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God, I wish American socialists had re-branded their ideology as some word other than "socialism", decades ago. It would have made it SO much easier to do what needs to be done.
  #233  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:28 PM
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You're welcome but you sure seem to have trouble following the nuance of conversations you're actively participating in. Maybe the next time you're about to say "that has nothing to do with what I posted", you should do a couple read throughs. It's kind of frustrating that you forget what happen ened two posts ago.
But it didn't make any sense -- there's no tape of Bernie claiming to be a communist. So there was no tape upon which to base the accusation of communism. That's where the disconnect lies. I didn't follow it because the argument didn't make sense. But thank you for connecting the dots -- you might have a better ability to make sense of poor arguments than I do.

I get a lot of enjoyment out of our back-and-forths, so I hope you continue to assist me in this way. Thanks again!

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  #234  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:33 PM
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Like I said, it made sense. You thanked me for the advice, now apply it. Read everything twice, minimum.
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:34 PM
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Helicopter avatar warning against socialism, nice
bWHAT?
  #236  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:36 PM
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Like I said, it made sense. You thanked me for the advice, now apply it. Read everything twice, minimum.
I usually read through posts that I respond to more than twice (often a lot more!), but that's still good advice, so thank you. Reading through that multiple times doesn't make it any more clear -- I did use the word "smear", but the smear I mentioned was about being a communist, and there's no tape of Bernie admitting to being a communist, so I didn't understand what a supposed tape had to do with this smear. I still don't, but that's okay -- I'm happy to move on.

I'm assuming that you're responding to my post here -- if not, please disregard. When you don't quote, it makes it harder to figure out who you're responding to.

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  #237  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:41 PM
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I usually read through posts that I respond to more than twice (often a lot more!),
Oh. Ok, you keep trying.
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:42 PM
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Ahh, I think I see where I went wrong -- when I said "I never said it was a smear." I was talking about Bloomberg. I don't know what Bloomberg stuff was being referred to. Of course Bernie's opponents (like Carville and Trump) are trying to smear him, but I don't know anything about tapes or smears regarding Bloomberg. So bringing up Bloomberg and some tapes of Bloomberg confused me and I had no idea what was being discussed. I still don't know how Bloomberg or Bloomberg tapes are relevant to this discussion.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 02-14-2020 at 06:43 PM.
  #239  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:44 PM
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Maybe Iím wrong and voters are much more open minded. So far I havenít seen evidence of that in my life but hope springs eternal right?
Actually now that I think about it that poll I cited is pretty optimistic. I have little issue with someone dismissing a candidate based on ideology. The numbers cited from most of the other categories are very hopeful and trending in the right direction.
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:49 PM
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Ahh, I think I see where I went wrong -- when I said "I never said it was a smear." I was talking about Bloomberg. I don't know what Bloomberg stuff was being referred to. Of course Bernie's opponents (like Carville and Trump) are trying to smear him, but I don't know anything about tapes or smears regarding Bloomberg. So bringing up Bloomberg and some tapes of Bloomberg confused me and I had no idea what was being discussed. I still don't know how Bloomberg or Bloomberg tapes are relevant to this discussion.
Because I think Bernieí own words coming out of his own face are going to sink him with enough of a percentage of voters in November if not in the primary. No smearing necessary.

The same tactic is being used against Bloomberg currently. Putting out his own words to use against him.

Are either smears? Both? Neither? Is it a smear only when used against the guy you like?
  #241  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:55 PM
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Because I think Bernie’ own words coming out of his own face are going to sink him with enough of a percentage of voters in November if not in the primary. No smearing necessary.
They're already starting to call him a communist. That's a smear. That's not using his own words against him.

I'm sure they'll try to use his own words against him, but that's different than smearing him. "Bernie praised aspects of Castro's government!" is an accurate criticism, and not a smear. But so far, what I see is the "communist!" smear, not the "Bernie praised certain aspects of repressive regimes" criticism.

And, of course, while Bernie praised some aspects of repressive regimes in the 80s, Trump has praised repressive regimes and authoritarian leaders within the last 3 years, multiple times. So for every tape of Bernie praising communist Castro, there's a tape of Trump praising Kim Jong Un, Putin, and others, much more recently, and without the reasonable explanation that Bernie has offered.

That's why I don't think this will be a terribly effective tactic -- if people care about this stuff a whole lot, then they wouldn't have supported (or continue to support) Trump.

Quote:
The same tactic is being used against Bloomberg currently. Putting out his own words to use against him.

Are either smears? Both? Neither? Is it a smear only when used against the guy you like?
Criticizing someone's own words is not a smear. Calling a socialist a communist is a smear. Is that clear?

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  #242  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:58 PM
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Itís not my job to fight propaganda.
...its everyone's job to fight propaganda. Especially if you are privileged enough to be able to recognise it for what it is.

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If you want to put me on the anti-propaganda payroll give me an offer.
Its not that you are not "anti-propaganda." Its that you acted as an agent of propaganda.

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If I put ďsocialism is not communismĒ as my sig it wonít make a bit of difference. Thatís not even the point. Iím having a discussion about how Iím guessing the election will go. This conversation is not going beyond this board and will not affect one vote. Iím not propagating anything. Thatís how I think the vote will go. Iím not going to pretend thatís not how it will go. Maybe Iím wrong and voters are much more open minded. So far I havenít seen evidence of that in my life but hope springs eternal right?
Sorry that isn't how it works any more. Propaganda and disinformation is being disseminated everywhere, from youtube videos to youtube comments section, to twitter, to messageboards. We can have a discussion about "which way the election will go" without resorting to making ridiculous assertions like "He might as well be a communist." You know its ridiculous. I quoted the entire context of what you said. There is no basis for what you said in reality and you know it. What you said later in the thread was entirely fair and reasonable. But what you said earlier simply wasn't.
  #243  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:07 PM
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And, of course, while Bernie praised some aspects of repressive regimes in the 80s, Trump has praised repressive regimes and authoritarian leaders within the last 3 years, multiple times. So for every tape of Bernie praising communist Castro, there's a tape of Trump praising Kim Jong Un, Putin, and others, much more recently, and without the reasonable explanation that Bernie has offered.

That's why I don't think this will be a terribly effective tactic -- if people care about this stuff a whole lot, then they wouldn't have supported (or continue to support) Trump.
Hey, Miller Lite advertises itself as a party beer that tastes great and is less filling. So the exact same ad strategy will work for Stella Artois. Science!!!
  #244  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:12 PM
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He didnít even win the nomination in 2016 with democrats so thatís not the best argument. Now heís going for swing voters and independents in parts of the country where socialist and communist are synonymous and about as negative as calling someone a pedophile. So agree to disagree.
A few points:

1). One of the reasons why Bernie didnít win the nomination in 2016 is because of the attitudes of people like you. People like you think you know what an ďelectableĒ candidate looks like. You have a loose idea of the kind of candidate that the rest of the country will find acceptable, and you push back against candidates who donít fit that template. Not because you wouldnít vote for them, of course. Because you think other people wonít vote for them.

Often, the assumptions underpinning this perspective are very dismissive and condescending. Weíve seen it before. In 2008 we saw liberals objecting to Obama because he wasnít as ďelectableĒ as Hillary. And these objections always took the same form; ďOf course, Iíd vote for a black man. But what about them? The hicks. The shoeless rubes out in tornado alley. Theyíre just not ready. Best play it safe and nominate HillaryĒ.

Weíre seeing it again right now with Buttigieg; ďOf course Iíd vote for a gay man. But if you think a gay POTUS and his First Gentleman will play in Peoria youíve got another think coming. Best play it safe and nominate Joe Biden.Ē

Youíd think that, after the catastrophic electoral failures of ďsafeĒ candidates like Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton, liberals would be a little more circumspect about declaring candidates ďunelectableĒ. But no. What weíre seeing with Sanders is just more of the same. Liberals who, if it were up to them, would happily make Bernie President tomorrow, are dragging him down because he doesnít match their idea of what the rest of the country is prepared to vote for.

The bottom line is that liberals have proven over and over again that they havenít got the first clue about what appeals to conservatives, swing voters, and independents. So maybe they should stop trying to nominate a candidate based on who they think the rest of the country will vote for. Maybe, instead, they should nominate who they want and then work hard to make the case for that person.

2). Itís true there are some areas of America in which being a socialist is a vote loser. But there are growing areas of America where being a triangulating, third way neoliberal technocrat like Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren is a vote loser, too. Again, since liberals are terrible at predicting what the rest of the country will find palatable, why don't we try taking a chance on the candidate we actually want, rather than take a chance on the establishment candidate like we did all those times we got our asses kicked?

3). Instead of just assuming people are too stupid to evaluate Sandersí arguments on their merits, why not try convincing them that their ideas about Bernie and Socialism are misguided? Itís not impossible. Just watch Bernieís recent Joe Rogan interview. Read the comments. Thousands of testimonials from Rogan fans - many of whom are libertarians - praising Bernie for his clarity, sincerity, and common sense approach. That one 55 minute podcast probably did more for Bernieís campaign than every wonkish think piece in the last two years. Just let Bernie show people what heís about.
  #245  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
Hey, Miller Lite advertises itself as a party beer that tastes great and is less filling. So the exact same ad strategy will work for Stella Artois. Science!!!
Chain happy gorilla bicycle!
  #246  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:34 PM
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...its everyone's job to fight propaganda. Especially if you are privileged enough to be able to recognise it for what it is.



Its not that you are not "anti-propaganda." Its that you acted as an agent of propaganda.



Sorry that isn't how it works any more. Propaganda and disinformation is being disseminated everywhere, from youtube videos to youtube comments section, to twitter, to messageboards. We can have a discussion about "which way the election will go" without resorting to making ridiculous assertions like "He might as well be a communist." You know its ridiculous. I quoted the entire context of what you said. There is no basis for what you said in reality and you know it. What you said later in the thread was entirely fair and reasonable. But what you said earlier simply wasn't.
Nope I have a job. It keeps a roof over my head and feed my family. This message board as a hobby I do for amusement. I donít even get paid for moderating Iím certainly not going to start treating posting like itís a job.

Everything I was saying was about how I felt voters will feel or at least a significant portion. That is the basis of reality. Feel free to disagree with me. I believe that to a significant portion of those that he needs to get elected He might as well be a communist and wave around a little red book. The gallop poll seems to agree with me too
  #247  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:49 PM
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Nope I have a job. It keeps a roof over my head and feed my family. This message board as a hobby I do for amusement. I donít even get paid for moderating Iím certainly not going to start treating posting like itís a job.
...it would take zero effort on your part to fight propaganda. All you have to do is not repeat it.

Quote:
Everything I was saying was about how I felt voters will feel or at least a significant portion.
I quoted what you said in context. What you said wasn't about how "voters feel." A plain text reading of what you said was all about what you felt, what you think.

Quote:
That is the basis of reality. Feel free to disagree with me. I believe that to a significant portion of those that he needs to get elected He might as well be a communist and wave around a little red book. The gallop poll seems to agree with me too
But he isn't a communist. You know this. You know that there is a widespread disinformation campaign to propagate the conflation. It is entirely fair and reasonable to talk about how people will conflate the two. It isn't fair and reasonable to simply repeat the disingenuous talking points without putting them in context.
  #248  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:52 PM
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Chain happy gorilla bicycle!
Congrats. That is indeed a more annoying way to say "I don't see what this has to do with my post". The problem is, almost every time you say it, it's rather obvious what it had to do with your post.

Last edited by CarnalK; 02-14-2020 at 07:54 PM.
  #249  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:56 PM
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This gets an "OK, Boomer" award.

Leaving left and right out of it, student debt and things like the shortage of affordable housing and lack of good jobs are things affecting a large part of the population. These aren't just kids, these are people now in their thirties and even forties. These are not problems that only developed in the last few years. The Democrats haven't exactly been there for them.

I think winning them back is important, not just to win elections but to bring back the ideals I was brought up being told the Democrats stood for. Unfortunately I don't know how long it would take to re-engage people. Ignoring them might in fact be a good short term strategy for winning. But I don't think it's a good long term one.
I don't know why more people understand this. How can anyone vote for Bloomberg is beyond me.
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  #250  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
Congrats. That is indeed a more annoying way to say "I don't see what this has to do with my post". The problem is, almost every time you say it, it's rather obvious what it had to do with your post.
I think you're trying to say you disagree with my argument, without actually going into any detail. If so, thanks for sharing! We'll see what happens in the election over the next several months.
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