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Old 02-07-2020, 10:30 PM
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New Hampshire debate: reviews?


Actually I think everyone did well tonight. Biggest change in Biden showing more of what heís got. Others hitting their notes as they have mostly but pretty well done.

Might slow Bidenís bleed some.
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Old 02-07-2020, 10:32 PM
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Pete won the night with his defense of Biden and his son.
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Old 02-07-2020, 11:10 PM
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Actually I think everyone did well tonight. Biggest change in Biden showing more of what heís got. Others hitting their notes as they have mostly but pretty well done.

Might slow Bidenís bleed some.
I doubt it.

The debates don't matter much, but to the extent that they do, I think Tom Steyer landed a pretty hard blow to Biden who seemed at a loss for words on how to deal with his surrogate problem in his firewall state.

Klobuchar had the best night. Bernie and Pete avoided disaster.
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Old 02-07-2020, 11:15 PM
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Biden was solid meaning no gaffes. I'm not sure it was good for him to concede NH.

Everyone spouting their normal points. Mostly a draw. Most analysts saying Klobuchar won. She drilled Pete on a couple of things and was the only candidate to denounce socialism.

Pete flubbed the "Why were blacks 7 times as likely to be arrested for marijuana when you were mayor" and was obviously bullshitting on his position regarding decriminalizing hard drugs.

They need to get Yang and Steyer out of there. All they do is try to interrupt and show how tough they are and when they speak they are just taking time away from candidates who have a chance of winning.
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Old 02-07-2020, 11:19 PM
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Old 02-07-2020, 11:27 PM
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Buttigieg had no real response to the moderator question on the increase of disproportionality in Black drug arrests in his town during his tenure. Not a question that was unexpected. Warren's simple "no" after that landed. The states after these two very white ones will be hard for him.

Biden's response that he has spoken with that surrogate and that the person knows he was wrong was adequate. His setting up a low expectation is smart.

It may have done enough to keep Biden in third not fourth Tuesday, and the two are of very different impacts.

Klobuchar has had other good debates. They've never translated into bounces before. It was a bit annoying for her to close with the same story she used Iowa caucus night, told in the same cadences. I do like what she is selling but I don't see her having any breakout here.
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Old 02-07-2020, 11:33 PM
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Klobuchar has had other good debates. They've never translated into bounces before. It was a bit annoying for her to close with the same story she used Iowa caucus night, told in the same cadences. I do like what she is selling but I don't see her having any breakout here.
I want to like Klobuchar. I really do. But this bothers me:

- Amy Klobuchar Keeps Voting for Trumpís ĎHorrificí Judges
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Old 02-07-2020, 11:42 PM
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Biden should have hit harder on the campaign staffer. This is what the staffer said:

Quote:
Harpootlian tweeted earlier Wednesday about Federal Election Commission filings showing Black Caucus Chairman Jerry Govan receiving "almost $50,000" from Steyer's campaign in just more than a month's time and called the billionaire Steyer "Mr. Money Bags."

"Is he pocketing the dough or redistributing the wealth?" Harpootlian asked, referring to Govan.

Harpootlian also told the Post and Courier newspaper of South Carolina: “He told me he was with Joe Biden until Mr. Moneybags showed up." He continued: “This is what happens when billionaires get involved, whether it's Donald Trump or Tom Steyer. They just buy things. They don’t have to persuade anybody, they just buy them.”
https://www.usnews.com/news/politics...gates-comments

To see racism in that requires an extra level of woke.

I'm not sure I agree with Biden's strategy of lowering expectations. There are quite a few politicians in the dustbin of presidential political history by writing off early primaries to wait for "their" state. By the time SC comes around, people may have switched candidates.

Plus, by conceding NH and talking about SC most of the night, Biden may have pissed off NH voters and do worse than he otherwise might have.
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Old 02-07-2020, 11:53 PM
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Buttigieg had no real response to the moderator question on the increase of disproportionality in Black drug arrests in his town during his tenure. Not a question that was unexpected. Warren's simple "no" after that landed. The states after these two very white ones will be hard for him...
Buttigieg was pretty wishy-washy in general, and rarely answered the questions. I don't think this was a good debate for him. And I didn't think Biden fared very well, either. He looked older than Sanders, and I think he would have done better to say why black people support him than just to assert that they do.
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Old 02-08-2020, 12:05 AM
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And, no one made a horrible flub. It’s a debate on a Friday night after a huge political week. My guess is that the Iowa mess, Trump acquittal, and the Chinese flu dominate the weekend news shows.
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Old 02-08-2020, 12:09 AM
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Buttigieg looked nervous about the question about drug arrests in South Bend, and didn't have a good response to it.

Granted, anti-gang efforts will arrest dangerous criminals for simple weed possession if its a way to get them off the streets. So if thats what was happening then I could understand it.

Nonetheless, Bernie coming out early in the debate and saying everyone will support the nominee was good.

I am hoping Bloomberg is in the next debate, just because there are a lot of hard questions he should have to answer.
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Old 02-08-2020, 01:28 AM
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Buttigieg looked nervous about the question about drug arrests in South Bend, and didn't have a good response to it.

Granted, anti-gang efforts will arrest dangerous criminals for simple weed possession if its a way to get them off the streets. So if thats what was happening then I could understand it.

Nonetheless, Bernie coming out early in the debate and saying everyone will support the nominee was good.

I am hoping Bloomberg is in the next debate, just because there are a lot of hard questions he should have to answer.
Thereís a possibility that the question wasnít accurate but Iíll wait until tomorrow to see if thereís a definite cite. I think all the candidates are exhausted and Pete especially has been on a marathon schedule. I doubt any candidate had much time for debate prep.

Bloomberg should make the next one. The DNC changed the qualifying to get Yang and Steyer out of there and get Bloomberg up there since his money is starting to move him up in polls. Not sure if we will get any more drop outs. Amy seems to have been raising a lot of money since tonight so perhaps she stays in.
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Old 02-08-2020, 05:46 AM
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Amy owned Pete again about experience but won't get a bump. Sigh. The center-left has her as the midway between a small town mayor and near 80 year old.

Last edited by Boycott; 02-08-2020 at 05:48 AM.
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:04 AM
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Remember how four years ago all those Republicans refused to bow out early? That is how we got Donald Trump. This is like that. Here the role of President Trump, the outsider populist hated by the party elites is played by Bernie Sanders.
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:32 AM
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Remember how four years ago all those Republicans refused to bow out early? That is how we got Donald Trump. This is like that. Here the role of President Trump, the outsider populist hated by the party elites is played by Bernie Sanders.
But this time, a populist who isn't evil.
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:48 AM
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I would be proud to have anyone on this stage as POTUS. They are a talented group.

But it comes down to: Can anyone defeat the current administration? And if so, Who?
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Old 02-08-2020, 08:58 AM
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Before I move on to my responses, I want to note two things: (1) I'm an early-to bed girl, so from 8-10 I was lying on the couch actively listening to the debate, but for the most part not watching it, so I missed any visual cues of nervousness or confidence. (2) At 10, I was tired enough that I turned the TV off, so if anything significant happened at the end I completely missed it.

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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post

They need to get Yang and Steyer out of there. All they do is try to interrupt and show how tough they are and when they speak they are just taking time away from candidates who have a chance of winning.
I agree about Yang, but not Steyer. When Steyer spoke up saying he was hearing the same thing in every debate, I wanted to kiss him. I am so, so sick of hearing the same argument about health care in every debate. Nothing new has been said for MONTHS. Steyer was attempting to steer the debate conversation in a different direction, and every single time, I agreed. I'm sick of feeling like watching a debate is like watching a rerun on television.

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Buttigieg was pretty wishy-washy in general, and rarely answered the questions. I don't think this was a good debate for him. And I didn't think Biden fared very well, either. He looked older than Sanders, and I think he would have done better to say why black people support him than just to assert that they do.
Biden looked unusually pale last night. I'm a bit concerned about his health. As for Buttigieg, Buttigieg was targeted with tough questions as the presumed front-runner. And when you compare his performance to the times other candidates were targeted as the presumed front-runner (Biden, Warren, Kamala), I think Buttigieg did well. Compared to performances where no one asked him tough questions and all he had to do was recite speeches, I don't think he did quite as well, but you could say the same for any candidate who was ever the primary focus of a debate. I don't think he said anything bad enough to make people change their minds about him.

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I am hoping Bloomberg is in the next debate, just because there are a lot of hard questions he should have to answer.
Totally agree. For every other candidate in this race, being kept out of a debate has been a bad thing. But Bloomberg is picking up momentum, and unlike every other candidate who's picked up momentum, he's never been put on the spot to answer tough questions about past remarks and decisions in front of a large audience. Strangely, I think Bloomberg's absence from this debate is kind of helping him.

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Amy seems to have been raising a lot of money since tonight so perhaps she stays in.
Are you saying this under the presumption that an increase in donors could lead to an increase in actual support in polls? Because I thought the next debate requirements were purely about performance in polls, and your number of donors stopped being considered.

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Remember how four years ago all those Republicans refused to bow out early? That is how we got Donald Trump. This is like that. Here the role of President Trump, the outsider populist hated by the party elites is played by Bernie Sanders.
Yes, I'm concerned about this as well. Everything I've read has said that the top quality Democrats are looking for in a candidate is the ability to beat Trump. And Democrats probably want someone different from Trump in every conceivable way, but independents and moderates (the people you'd need to win an election) aren't looking for that, I don't think. A moderate/independent is more likely to vote for the Democratic candidate if the Democratic candidate is not starkly different from Trump ideologically, but comes across as less divisive and, you know, less likely to mock disabled people and stuff like that. A candidate who professes a wish to completely upend the economic system in America and drastically redistribute wealth and the way things like healthcare and education are run in this country is certainly a tougher sell.
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Old 02-08-2020, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by The wind of my soul View Post
Before I move on to my responses, I want to note two things: (1) I'm an early-to bed girl, so from 8-10 I was lying on the couch actively listening to the debate, but for the most part not watching it, so I missed any visual cues of nervousness or confidence. (2) At 10, I was tired enough that I turned the TV off, so if anything significant happened at the end I completely missed it.



I agree about Yang, but not Steyer. When Steyer spoke up saying he was hearing the same thing in every debate, I wanted to kiss him. I am so, so sick of hearing the same argument about health care in every debate. Nothing new has been said for MONTHS. Steyer was attempting to steer the debate conversation in a different direction, and every single time, I agreed. I'm sick of feeling like watching a debate is like watching a rerun on television.



Biden looked unusually pale last night. I'm a bit concerned about his health. As for Buttigieg, Buttigieg was targeted with tough questions as the presumed front-runner. And when you compare his performance to the times other candidates were targeted as the presumed front-runner (Biden, Warren, Kamala), I think Buttigieg did well. Compared to performances where no one asked him tough questions and all he had to do was recite speeches, I don't think he did quite as well, but you could say the same for any candidate who was ever the primary focus of a debate. I don't think he said anything bad enough to make people change their minds about him.



Totally agree. For every other candidate in this race, being kept out of a debate has been a bad thing. But Bloomberg is picking up momentum, and unlike every other candidate who's picked up momentum, he's never been put on the spot to answer tough questions about past remarks and decisions in front of a large audience. Strangely, I think Bloomberg's absence from this debate is kind of helping him.



Are you saying this under the presumption that an increase in donors could lead to an increase in actual support in polls? Because I thought the next debate requirements were purely about performance in polls, and your number of donors stopped being considered.



Yes, I'm concerned about this as well. Everything I've read has said that the top quality Democrats are looking for in a candidate is the ability to beat Trump. And Democrats probably want someone different from Trump in every conceivable way, but independents and moderates (the people you'd need to win an election) aren't looking for that, I don't think. A moderate/independent is more likely to vote for the Democratic candidate if the Democratic candidate is not starkly different from Trump ideologically, but comes across as less divisive and, you know, less likely to mock disabled people and stuff like that. A candidate who professes a wish to completely upend the economic system in America and drastically redistribute wealth and the way things like healthcare and education are run in this country is certainly a tougher sell.
Klobuchar should be in already because she picked up a delegate in Iowa. Will her polling go up? Perhaps. I do think itís a good thing for her that she got impressive donations on a Friday night, a lousy time for a debate. Perhaps Amy is picking up some support from Warren voters who really want a woman and Biden supporters jumping ship.
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Old 02-08-2020, 10:03 AM
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Remember how four years ago all those Republicans refused to bow out early? That is how we got Donald Trump. This is like that. Here the role of President Trump, the outsider populist hated by the party elites is played by Bernie Sanders.
Yes, but remember that there are no winner take all or winner take most primaries for the Democrats. Trump was able to scoop up delegates by winning small pluralities with the divided field until he became unstoppable.
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Old 02-08-2020, 10:22 AM
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All in all it is time for people to drop out. I am not monitoring it closely, but I think nobody has in the last week or so.
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Old 02-08-2020, 02:22 PM
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...I think Buttigieg did well. Compared to performances where no one asked him tough questions and all he had to do was recite speeches, I don't think he did quite as well, but you could say the same for any candidate who was ever the primary focus of a debate. I don't think he said anything bad enough to make people change their minds about him...
My husband agrees with you. We watched together. He probably paid more attention than I did. And he felt that Buttigieg had done really well.
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Old 02-08-2020, 11:13 PM
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I thought Bernie had a strong night and came off very well. Biden didn’t have any major mishaps, but his way of reacting super forcefully, almost angrily, is a bit unsettling to me. So defensive, and why exactly? Klobuchar did quite well, but I suspect won’t get much momentum from it. Buttigieg also passed with a high grade, I thought. Yang and Steyer need to drop out. I will say that when Yang remarked that Democrats need to examine why Trump won in the first place, I thought that was the smartest thing I’d heard from any of them.
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Old 02-09-2020, 07:32 AM
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I'm watching the debate now. Steyer really impresses me! (Too bad he doesn't have a chance. )
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Old 02-09-2020, 06:45 PM
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I didnít watch, but 538ís tracking poll (polling the same group of voters before and after the debate) had Sanders and Klobuchar doing well, Biden and Yang doing poorly, and the others treading water. That seems to be at odds with the consensus here.

In terms of the percentage of voters at least CONSIDERING a candidate, Sanders went from trailing Biden 46-43 to leading him 46-41.

And massive SMH that in a debate which spent a lot of time on racial issues, the candidate given the least time to speak was the only POC on the stage!
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Old 02-09-2020, 08:48 PM
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Bernie is complaining that the DNC changed the rules to let Bloomberg into the next debate, which of course is the on-message Bernie thing to say; there shouldn't be one set of rules for billionaires and another for everyone else.

OTOH, I think it's fair to say that anyone polling in the double digits deserves to participate, and that the DNC would have written the rules differently in the first place if they had foreseen this situation.

And strategically, the sooner Bernie and the other candidates get this guy on a debate stage, the sooner his numbers will start drying up.
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:30 PM
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Bernie is complaining that the DNC changed the rules to let Bloomberg into the next debate, which of course is the on-message Bernie thing to say; there shouldn't be one set of rules for billionaires and another for everyone else.

OTOH, I think it's fair to say that anyone polling in the double digits deserves to participate, and that the DNC would have written the rules differently in the first place if they had foreseen this situation.

And strategically, the sooner Bernie and the other candidates get this guy on a debate stage, the sooner his numbers will start drying up.
Bernie cries rigged, Iím shocked.
But yes, I agree with the changes. The Bloomberg money machine is a real deal and Yang and Steyer are way past their expiration dates. Biden/Klobuchar/Warren are wobbly now but all 3 could stick it out. So, at least the next debate will cut two and add one.

But, the more debates we have, the less significant they are. And, yes, thatís Bernieís fault for crying rigged all the time.
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:27 PM
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I would be proud to have anyone on this stage as POTUS. They are a talented group.

But it comes down to: Can anyone defeat the current administration? And if so, Who?
I say yes. The economy was good* in 2016, and Clinton got more votes. Yes, the economy is good now, but the Dems don't have to beat Trump all over America. That is, the nominee will have the same states as Clinton had locked up. California and New York ain't going nowhere, for instance. They only have to flip Florida**, and then one other of Wisconsin, Michigan, Penn, or Arizona. So as to who, I'd bet any of the top four of Sanders, Biden, Buttigieg, or Warren. Hell, I'd even say Klobuchar.

*Based on certain things. Perhaps not in others...

**If not flipping Florida, there are other ways involving the named states.

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