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Old 02-09-2020, 11:00 AM
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Are Trump supporters capable of seeing the Trumpian double-standard?


Trump is such a divisive figure that it is unreasonable to expect people to reach a consensus on much of anything related to him nowadays.

But it seems to me irrefutable that Trump is only able to get away with his excesses because he's a straight white male. A philandering, tax-evading, foul-mouthed, immoral, anti-intellectual, bloviating blowhard could only become US president if they were a straight white guy. Members of other demographics would have been laughed off the debate stage if they had possessed just a fraction of these traits.

Do you think this is an irrefutable position?

I'm curious if Trump supporters share this opinion. If they do, do they also share the belief that American society is a meritocracy or at least should be? How does the existence of President Trump square with this concept?
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Old 02-09-2020, 11:02 AM
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Old 02-09-2020, 11:21 AM
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Here's how I imagine a Trump supporter might respond:

[hypothetical Trump supporter]
Why do you always have to be making everything about race or sex?

You sound like a resentful sibling: "Why does Donny always get away with everything?"
[/hypothetical]

Then they'd give examples of women, or people of color, or non-straights, who have said or done (what they see as) outrageous things and "gotten away with" them.
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Old 02-09-2020, 12:03 PM
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Are Trump supporters capable of seeing the Trumpian double-standard?
No.
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Old 02-09-2020, 12:10 PM
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There isn't a single motivation for supporting Trump. Some just support him out of knee-jerk partisanship, and end up as the apologists we see here on this board. They know he's a piece of shit, but can't bring themselves to really face up to his utter uselessness. And they know that meritocracy gets thrown out the window when stacked up against Trump's (white male) identity politics. They're just too intellectually dishonest to admit it.

Other Trump supporters are simply dupes, who really believe his bullshit. So of course they think he's the best president ever, and that he's suddenly turned the country around from the horrible state it was in just because Obama was Obama. Part of their motivation may be white male grievance (activated by Trump), or just stupidity--probably some combination of both.

Then there are the outright ethno-nationalists. They don't care what any president does, as long as their cause gets promoted.

With that array of supporters, do you think any one of them is going to recognize or care about the double standard? Don't bother.
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Old 02-09-2020, 12:39 PM
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These people think that straight white males are the real victims of discrimination.

So, no.
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Old 02-09-2020, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by monstro View Post
I'm curious if Trump supporters share this opinion. If they do, do they also share the belief that American society is a meritocracy or at least should be? How does the existence of President Trump square with this concept?
To them, "merit" = being strong/rich/clever enough to get your way.
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Old 02-09-2020, 01:42 PM
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I would challenge the premise. Herman Cain is black and says wild things and he was popular in his heyday because he pushed all the right right-wing button talking points. Michelle Malkin, a minority woman, is the same. Even a gay man, Milo Yannapoulis, is considered to be in the right by Trumpers.

Trumpers love liberal tears. They'd vote for anyone who could deliver that, regardless of race/gender/bloviating/tax dodging/philandering. Indeed, some even think a minority/woman would be the BEST to "stick it to the libs."

Last edited by Velocity; 02-09-2020 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 02-09-2020, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by monstro View Post
Trump is such a divisive figure that it is unreasonable to expect people to reach a consensus on much of anything related to him nowadays.

But it seems to me irrefutable that Trump is only able to get away with his excesses because he's a straight white male. A philandering, tax-evading, foul-mouthed, immoral, anti-intellectual, bloviating blowhard could only become US president if they were a straight white guy. Members of other demographics would have been laughed off the debate stage if they had possessed just a fraction of these traits.

Do you think this is an irrefutable position?

I'm curious if Trump supporters share this opinion. If they do, do they also share the belief that American society is a meritocracy or at least should be? How does the existence of President Trump square with this concept?
That's what YOU see when you look at Trump.

Here's what they see:

Philandering - Alpha male who is maybe a 5 sleeping with 9's and 10's because he is powerful and rich.
Tax-evading - He's beating the system.
Foul mouthed - Talks like they do and doesn't care who hears it.
Immoral - Nobody telling him what to do. Fuck the PC police.
Anti-Intellectual - Over educated elites can kiss his ass.
Bloviating blowhard - When he talks, people listen.
White - Finally, an ethnic victim they can identify with.

He's their folk hero and an aspirational figure. He's everything they would like to be and he's given them permission to be themselves.
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Old 02-09-2020, 01:46 PM
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To them, "merit" = being strong/rich/clever enough to get your way.
Merit = being a dick, basically.

McConnell for instance is not just strong rich and clever. That wouldn't be enough at all to describe it. The sauce on it, the spice in the recipe is "antisocial". "You are a dick to those upon whom I project my unwanted emotions so you will have my vote. All other politics is naive"
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Old 02-09-2020, 02:10 PM
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I would challenge the premise. Herman Cain is black and says wild things and he was popular in his heyday because he pushed all the right right-wing button talking points. Michelle Malkin, a minority woman, is the same. Even a gay man, Milo Yannapoulis, is considered to be in the right by Trumpers.
None of these people have ever been president of the US. In fact, they are all political has-beens who have a zero probability of ever being elected for dog catcher.

Quote:
Trumpers love liberal tears. They'd vote for anyone who could deliver that, regardless of race/gender/bloviating/tax dodging/philandering. Indeed, some even think a minority/woman would be the BEST to "stick it to the libs."
We have no evidence that these people would ever elect someone who is a non-straight white male to major political office.
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Old 02-09-2020, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Trumpers love liberal tears. They'd vote for anyone who could deliver that, regardless of race/gender/bloviating/tax dodging/philandering. Indeed, some even think a minority/woman would be the BEST to "stick it to the libs."
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We have no evidence that these people would ever elect someone who is a non-straight white male to major political office.
I think you're both right: There are plenty who would happily vote for a woman or a minority who said what they wanted to hear, but probably enough others who never would to keep it from happening.
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Old 02-09-2020, 03:49 PM
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Forget Trump. Forget Trump supporters.

Unify the Dems now. Be gracious to all the nominees. Extend grace...stop the infighting and running on hate.

Be the good guys and you MIGHT beat Trump.

As for the OP....no. No more then leftists have seen their own hypocrisy for the last four years. And for any potential "he's worse/ he did it first"

That's a 2cnd grader argument.

Oh and find some way to get Hilary to STFU shut up or run
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Old 02-09-2020, 03:56 PM
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Some of them might be under the right circumstances, but don't expect it to happen over night. I'm someone who used to vote Republican. I know there are other posters who've said the same. For me, it was Iraq and the increasingly dirty rhetoric and politics coming from the right, rhetoric suggesting that people who opposed Bush hated the troops and were un-American. I'm guessing there are other Republicans that have their tipping point as well

Last edited by asahi; 02-09-2020 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 02-09-2020, 04:10 PM
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I would challenge the premise. Herman Cain is black and says wild things and he was popular in his heyday because he pushed all the right right-wing button talking points. Michelle Malkin, a minority woman, is the same. Even a gay man, Milo Yannapoulis, is considered to be in the right by Trumpers.

Trumpers love liberal tears. They'd vote for anyone who could deliver that, regardless of race/gender/bloviating/tax dodging/philandering. Indeed, some even think a minority/woman would be the BEST to "stick it to the libs."
This. My own mom admitted that Trump could murder her grandson, BBQ him on a spit on front of her and she’d still vote for him.
While she rants about the usual right wing stuff: welfare queens, food stamps cheaters, illegals, et al. I think her two biggest issues are:

1. Columbus Day ‘We’ve gotten too damn politically correct !!’
2. Comfort animals on planes. Any news story about someone bringing an unusual animal on a plane as a comfort animal has her foaming at the mouth for hours.

So, yes owning the libs is far more important than his policies or character.
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Old 02-09-2020, 05:12 PM
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Nope, no way to explain it.

Here it is - They want to be JUST LIKE HIM.

An asshole that can say anything they want. Trod on those that they feel are inferior, and have Gold Diggers at their finger tips (yeah, gross, but thems the facts).

They ADORE this piece of shit.
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Old 02-10-2020, 12:07 AM
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What's the point of these "Why do trumpers/conservatives do X?" if almost every answer is by an opponent saying "cuz dey dumb"? Is the self-congratulatory circle that entertaining? How do you fight ignorance if you're so sure about the answer that you don't need to hear it?
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Old 02-10-2020, 01:12 AM
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What's the point of these "Why do trumpers/conservatives do X?" if almost every answer is by an opponent saying "cuz dey dumb"? Is the self-congratulatory circle that entertaining? How do you fight ignorance if you're so sure about the answer that you don't need to hear it?
If you have a better answer this would be the thread to post it in. I find the answers here so far pretty much reflect what I've seen in real life, but I would love to hear whatever counterexamples you may have.
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Old 02-10-2020, 07:41 AM
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Cult members are not know for objective thinking. This cult is no different. There are roughly 30% of the people who think he is infallible. Let them be, they can't change. Work instead on those who can be persuaded. Yes only straight white (ostensibly) Christian males can get away with what he does. It's baked into the culture of the cult. He can be defeated if people of conscience get off their butts and vote.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:05 AM
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I agree with the OP.

Like many people, particularly outside of the US, the support for Trump is difficult for me to fathom. He does and says things virtually every day that should be absolutely disqualifying.
But over these years I start to understand some Trump supporters, and there are two primary factors.

The first is ignorance. I don't mean this in a pejorative sense, we're all ignorant of many things. But trump supporters necessarily get their news from a narrow spread of sources. Many trump supporters I know think the worst thing Trump has ever done is some mean tweets; they are unaware of anything else. They think mueller cleared him of any wrongdoing, and probably now think the impeachment trial did likewise. And they hold plenty of readily debunkable false beliefs.

The second, and the reason I am agreeing with the OP, is that they relate to him. Trump is ignorant (and this time I mean it in the pejorative sense, as willful ignorance) in popular ways. His knee-jerk uninformed opinions line up well with many American's knee-jerk reflexes (but don't play so well abroad, where we have our own blind spots). And the lack of nuance is a positive.
He sounds and looks like one of your pals. And this is where some of the love affair aspect comes in; he's one of the boys, one of us, telling it like it "is". It must be pretty exciting and fun to feel like one of your pals is now president.

Last edited by Mijin; 02-10-2020 at 08:09 AM.
  #21  
Old 02-10-2020, 09:11 AM
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The double standard is some lib-tard utopia unrealistic dream that can not really exist, so theirs is the only real way, so no double standard, just a dose of reality.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:38 AM
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I don't think that black voters are so much better than white voters; there just aren't enough of them to elect a black President Trump. Black voters vote for black candidates a lot more automatically than white voters vote for white candidates, but that's not enough to swing a Presidential election.

Much of the reason why Trump is President is that black voters didn't vote for the less corrupt of the two major candidates - they stayed home and didn't vote at all.

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Old 02-10-2020, 10:49 AM
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Black voters vote for black candidates a lot more automatically than white voters vote for white candidates, but that's not enough to swing a Presidential election.
Do you have a cite for this? From the data I've seen, blacks voters overwhelmingly vote for Democrats over Republicans regardless of race -- for example, overwhelmingly supporting Barbara Mikulsky (white) in MD when her opponent was Alan Keyes (black).
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Old 02-10-2020, 12:01 PM
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Pfft. Facts. Who needs 'em?
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Old 02-10-2020, 12:17 PM
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What is the evidence that only a white male with Trump's character deficiencies could get elected?

Marion Barry got reelected despite serving prison time for smoking crack. Alcee Hastings was elected to Congress despite being impeached for bribery and perjury.
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Old 02-10-2020, 12:41 PM
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What is the evidence that only a white male with Trump's character deficiencies could get elected?

Marion Barry got reelected despite serving prison time for smoking crack. Alcee Hastings was elected to Congress despite being impeached for bribery and perjury.
Oh please
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Old 02-10-2020, 12:59 PM
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As to the double standard, I have a friend who is a lifelong Republican, from New York, who now lives in Florida. She despises Trump, for all the reasons you'd expect. She is a reasonable, intelligent person, but for the purposes of this thread offers purely anecdotal evidence. That being said, I suspect there are many more like her, so my answer is yes, some are capable of seeing it. And one thing to keep in mind as far as the election. If the Democrats take Florida, they need only flip one more of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Arizona, or Wisconsin, all states where Trump has a negative approval rating. If they don't take Florida it gets harder of course, but we don't need huge amounts of Republicans to see him for as he is and abandon him.
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Old 02-10-2020, 01:18 PM
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Capable of seeing Trump in a negative way? Some of the examples and arguments seem to be about this. Plenty of people who voted and are likely to vote for Trump don't see him positively, but as lesser of evils. You can go on a tangent where the politically righteous morally judge such a decision if you like. It's just pretty simple to see that people can think pretty poorly of Trump in a vacuum and still vote for him.

Capable of 'seeing' that grudging acceptance of Trump is all or mainly about his race...I don't think that premise has been proven to then proceed in analyzing who 'sees' it. Seems to me a matter of opinion.

Here in NJ we re-elected Menendez (arguably 'non-white' depending on semantics of 'white' and how you parse such distinctions but it's not the main point) to the Senate after he barely achieved a hung jury on a criminal corruption trial where he was obviously guilty enough to not vote for for high office in a vacuum. But it would have meant throwing the seat to a Republican if too many voters abandoned him. So they didn't.

Some might feel the obligation to prove how virtuous they are by contesting the the premise that Menendez was pretty obviously corrupt, they'd *never* vote for somebody corrupt. More practical people would just admit he's better than having the seat go to a Republican from their POV. It's only really hypocritical, double standard whatever IMO if you try to make the first argument.

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Old 02-10-2020, 02:16 PM
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If you want to understand Trump's appeal, you might consider that it's less about Trump than it is about shared hatred of Trump's enemies.

As long as Trump keeps enraging people who his fans love to see enraged, they'll keep supporting him. If you have a general who is giving your enemies fits, you're not going to recall him because he's personally vile. And if his vileness is directed at the enemy, you might even love him for it, even if you know he's an asshole. They would feel this way no matter what his skin color or gender was. The right loved Margaret Thatcher, and they love Clarence Thomas. Seeing everything through the lens of color and gender and privilege is not helpful here.

If you grok this, it will save you a lot of head scratching the next time Trump does something awful and his supporters don't care.

And if Democrats had a pugilist like this mocking Republicans and laughing at their rules and norms, you love that person too.

It's sad, but these are the times we live in.

Last edited by Sam Stone; 02-10-2020 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 02-10-2020, 02:47 PM
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And if Democrats had a pugilist like this mocking Republicans and laughing at their rules and norms, you love that person too.

It's sad, but these are the times we live in.
There is no Democratic/liberal equivalent -- not to Trump, and not to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and other right-wing hatemongers. Both sides aren't always the same on everything. In some things, we're actually different. This is one of them.
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Old 02-10-2020, 02:58 PM
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A concrete example:

Trump allies plan to keep investigating the Bidens — both officially and unofficially

Sen. Lindsey Graham says Rudy Giuliani will feed dirt on the Biden family to the DOJ, as the Senate continues its investigation into Hunter Biden.

Quote:
Thursday, one day after Trump was acquitted, the New York Times reported that Senate Republicans on the Finance Committee and Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs had requested documents related to Hunter Biden’s business dealings in Ukraine last year, a request that the Treasury Department has complied with.

The request suggests Republican senators are looking into Hunter’s finances using standard protocols for Senate investigations. But some Democrats are accusing the administration of complying with this investigation in a way that it refused to in the impeachment inquiry.

“Applying a blatant double standard, Trump administration agencies like the Treasury Department are rapidly complying with Senate Republican requests — no subpoenas necessary — and producing ‘evidence’ of questionable origin,” a spokesperson for Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Finance Committee, said in a statement. “The administration told House Democrats to go pound sand when their oversight authority was mandatory while voluntarily cooperating with the Senate Republicans’ sideshow at lightning speed.”

The Senate Finance Committee chair, Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa, pushed back on this allegation, according to the New York Times:

“It’s unfortunate that Democrats whom we’ve kept in the loop on our investigations would recklessly seek to interfere with legitimate government oversight,” said his spokesperson; Grassley also reportedly confirmed the investigation is ongoing.
Yep. Those reckless congressional Democrats who are whining that the executive branch won't cooperate with them are apparently trying to interfere with legitimate oversight. Shameless!
  #32  
Old 02-10-2020, 03:02 PM
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That's what YOU see when you look at Trump.

Here's what they see:

Philandering - Alpha male who is maybe a 5 sleeping with 9's and 10's because he is powerful and rich.
Tax-evading - He's beating the system.
Foul mouthed - Talks like they do and doesn't care who hears it.
Immoral - Nobody telling him what to do. Fuck the PC police.
Anti-Intellectual - Over educated elites can kiss his ass.
Bloviating blowhard - When he talks, people listen.
White - Finally, an ethnic victim they can identify with.

He's their folk hero and an aspirational figure. He's everything they would like to be and he's given them permission to be themselves.
Well said. As has been said: He’s a poor person’s idea of a rich person, a dumb man’s idea of a smart person, and a weak person’s idea of a strong person.
  #33  
Old 02-10-2020, 03:11 PM
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Oh the disconnect is strong with some of these people. Below is a link from Daily Show with people at a Trump rally talking about the impeachment.

"Trump is blocking witnesses."

"I don't care."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cas2wXZz1PE
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:24 PM
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There is no Democratic/liberal equivalent -- not to Trump, and not to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and other right-wing hatemongers. Both sides aren't always the same on everything. In some things, we're actually different. This is one of them.

There is no current Democratic presidential candidate who is the equivalent of Trump, true. But the underlying sentiment that Sam Stone speaks of does exist - "I'm okay with bad people or bad things, as long as they are on my side."


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Dirty tricks in politics are fine by me, as long as they work (and as long as they're for my favored candidate).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
The Dems could run the rotting corpse of Hitler and I wouldn't hesitate a second to vote for him. It. Whatever.
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Nothing that fits into the category of 'scandal' could get me to vote against the Dem nominee.
  #35  
Old 02-10-2020, 03:34 PM
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There is no current Democratic presidential candidate who is the equivalent of Trump, true. But the underlying sentiment that Sam Stone speaks of does exist - "I'm okay with bad people or bad things, as long as they are on my side."
Those examples don't support your argument. "Dirty tricks" in politics aren't bad or good -- they're a chess move (and some people find certain "tricks" bad, but some people also think certain types of trick plays in football are unfair... and all of these are just different tactics). A rhetorical tactic isn't inherently good or bad -- it depends on what the goal is. Lincoln doing some political wheeling and dealing to pass the 13th amendment wasn't doing a "bad thing" in service of a greater good -- it was doing a smart thing in service of a greater good.

Your second and third examples are just hyperbole -- they aren't saying anything other than "the worst Democrat (or Democratic scandal) is still miles better than Trump (or Trump scandals)".

Once again, there are no equivalents of the right-wing hatemongers on the left, in terms of popularity and success. There is nowhere near the same appetite for hate on the left -- if there was, then someone would have seized upon it to make money, just like Limbaugh, Hannity, Trump, and many others have.
  #36  
Old 02-10-2020, 03:36 PM
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There is no current Democratic presidential candidate who is the equivalent of Trump, true. But the underlying sentiment that Sam Stone speaks of does exist - "I'm okay with bad people or bad things, as long as they are on my side."
Your interpretation/summation is entirely wrong because it lacks context; the presence of Donald Trump is the conditional that has been met. Remove "batshit crazy fucktard" from the GOP leadership and the attitude of "any Democrat at any cost" returns to its previous inert state.
  #37  
Old 02-10-2020, 03:41 PM
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Oh the disconnect is strong with some of these people. Below is a link from Daily Show with people at a Trump rally talking about the impeachment.

"Trump is blocking witnesses."

"I don't care."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cas2wXZz1PE
Also notice that one guy describes Trump as having the thickest skin and another guy says Bolton shouldn't be able to testify because he's "vengeful".

There's another Daily Show video from a Trump rally during the campaign where one guy wonders why Obama wasn't in the Oval Office taking care of business on 9/11. The guy suspects Obama was on vacation.

Last edited by dasmoocher; 02-10-2020 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:47 PM
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And if Democrats had a pugilist like this mocking Republicans and laughing at their rules and norms, you love that person too.

It's sad, but these are the times we live in.
It depends on what rules and norms you are talking about. Norms that have no place in today's society? Surely I would love that person. But norms that should be respected? You couldn't be more wrong about anything about me. Your claim is to general as is for a discussion, I think.
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Old 02-10-2020, 04:03 PM
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It depends on what rules and norms you are talking about. Norms that have no place in today's society? Surely I would love that person. But norms that should be respected? You couldn't be more wrong about anything about me. Your claim is to general as is for a discussion, I think.
Of course we are talking in generalities. That's what matters in politics. The attitudes towards Trump I am talking about don't apply to NeverTrumpers or people like me, either.

I don't think Democrats understand how many people in America are sick and tired of political correctness and of being lectured to. People who just want to go home, have a beer, hang out with their friends and family and have a decent life are sick of being told that they are bad people for not organizing their thinking around 'wokeness', and being told they are stupid, immoral, deplorable, etc.

That describes a lot of apolitical moderates and unaligned voters - the people you are trying to win.
  #40  
Old 02-10-2020, 04:18 PM
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Of course we are talking in generalities. That's what matters in politics. The attitudes towards Trump I am talking about don't apply to NeverTrumpers or people like me, either.



I don't think Democrats understand how many people in America are sick and tired of political correctness and of being lectured to. People who just want to go home, have a beer, hang out with their friends and family and have a decent life are sick of being told that they are bad people for not organizing their thinking around 'wokeness', and being told they are stupid, immoral, deplorable, etc.



That describes a lot of apolitical moderates and unaligned voters - the people you are trying to win.
Fox News and right wing hatemongers have been very successful in spreading this mostly fictional story about the left. These pretend bogeymen may have been successful, but that doesn't make them any less fictional, aside from the true fringes.
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  #41  
Old 02-10-2020, 04:34 PM
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Trump is like Clint Eastwood in The Unforgiven. He's a murderous low life scum, but he's the only guy we have to stop liberals from destroying this country.

PS - This is an analogy, and in no way, would I advocate violence of any sort. I believe hearts and minds can be changed with respectful debate.
  #42  
Old 02-10-2020, 04:53 PM
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Of course we are talking in generalities. That's what matters in politics. The attitudes towards Trump I am talking about don't apply to NeverTrumpers or people like me, either.
I mean the part about a hypothetical Democratic pugilist. If you mean people in general would love that person, sure some might. I simply meant that part was too general. I don't know what norms or rules you meant specifically.

Quote:
I don't think Democrats understand how many people in America are sick and tired of political correctness and of being lectured to. People who just want to go home, have a beer, hang out with their friends and family and have a decent life are sick of being told that they are bad people for not organizing their thinking around 'wokeness', and being told they are stupid, immoral, deplorable, etc.
This is very near to what I've said to for years, but not just about people of specific parties in the U.S. Frankly, I usually say it to myself about the rest of the world, such as "Iranians are no different than you or me. They just want to earn a living so they can eat well, raise a family, go to the movies now and again and just lead a normal, quite life." And it's not just Democrats that do the lecturing, or dislike it when the other side does it. We agree, sort of, but you can't just limit it to the Democrats. I would grant you Democrats probably call the Republicans "stupid" more, and Republicans call the Democrats "immoral" more. But whatever the case, no side has a monopoly on such behavior.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 02-10-2020 at 04:55 PM.
  #43  
Old 02-10-2020, 04:53 PM
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I don't think Democrats understand how many people in America are sick and tired of political correctness and of being lectured to.
Apparently, 80% of the American public is fed up with political correctness. . That’s an astounding number. It kills me that the “progressive activist” cohort, through their need to virtue-signal and woke-shame, has turned off so many centrists, who otherwise support a progressive agenda, from the Democratic Party. There is no greater threat to the progressive agenda than progressives themselves. I consider myself a progressive, but I don’t want to attend the parties.
  #44  
Old 02-10-2020, 05:00 PM
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I disagree with that wholeheartedly as far as the term "PC" goes. To the extent that they are a real thing, I am not the biggest fan of their "need to virtue-signal and woke-shame"*, but I don't think "political correctness" is a good term for that phenomenon, which the vast majority of the time is simply asking people to be polite.

*Which are loaded snarl words of their own, but slightly more indicative of what is going on than "PC".
  #45  
Old 02-10-2020, 05:12 PM
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Here's all you have to remember about Trump supporters in four easy words.

"They all do that."

That's the magic answer to any allegation that Trump is lying, cheating, vengeful, greedy, narcissistic or anything else. They all do that. And since they all do it, we might as well vote for the one we like, right?

As to whether America's a meritocracy, well, Trump's rich, isn't he? What other "merit" counts?
  #46  
Old 02-10-2020, 05:19 PM
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"Political correctness gone mad!" is such a weird phenomenon because people get so upset about it, and yet almost every time there is no truth to it. It's the moral panic of our time.

Jordan Peterson becomes famous on the back of a claim that he would be arrested if he didn't use new gender terms in his speech -- Yeah, bullshit
You're not allowed to say Merry Christmas any more! -- Yeah you are
They're renaming Christmas to Winterval now -- A recurring, and untrue, story in the UK
You can't call Mexicans rapists -- ...Well you can call them that, but you would be considered a bigot for doing so

...and on and on. So if the claim is that Trump is popular with some quarters for being perceived as fighting against tyrannical PC overreach...yeah, could be. It doesn't make the fear and action of voting for trump rational.
  #47  
Old 02-10-2020, 05:51 PM
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I disagree with that wholeheartedly as far as the term "PC" goes. To the extent that they are a real thing, I am not the biggest fan of their "need to virtue-signal and woke-shame"*, but I don't think "political correctness" is a good term for that phenomenon, which the vast majority of the time is simply asking people to be polite.

*Which are loaded snarl words of their own, but slightly more indicative of what is going on than "PC".
I agree that political correctness is not a great term, and the authors of the study do quite a bit of interviewing to suss out the respondents’ understanding of it. There was a pretty large consensus that the aversion to “political correctness” was not to the idea of being polite to minorities or referring to people with their preferred label, but rather to being looked down upon and judged as being ignorant. It doesn’t help that the messaging comes from academic elites and is often aimed at the middle class. Sometimes I’ll hate-watch Fox (though I find it nearly impossible to stomach now), and Brit Hume has a segment called Campus Craziness wherein he chronicles the latest idiotic thing some liberal students did/said. I just cringe at the propaganda gold that the activists serve up to the right on a nightly basis.

Last edited by KidCharlemagne; 02-10-2020 at 05:52 PM.
  #48  
Old 02-10-2020, 06:07 PM
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Trump is like Clint Eastwood in The Unforgiven. He's a murderous low life scum, but he's the only guy we have to stop liberals from destroying this country.
PS - This is an analogy, and in no way, would I advocate violence of any sort. I believe hearts and minds can be changed with respectful debate.
The red part shows the pink part to be false. There is nothing respectful about demonizing your opposition in that way.
  #49  
Old 02-10-2020, 06:14 PM
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capable, yes. willing to, no
  #50  
Old 02-10-2020, 07:41 PM
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If you think that almost all progressives look down on you -- or your relatives, or your town -- wanting to own the libs is a next step hard to avoid.

Now, it is in the nature of the personality of most politicians (not DJT!) to like most people. The reason the Trumpists endlessly repeat Hillary's one word one-time out-of-context gaffe ("deplorables") is that that top Democratic politicians don't talk that way. If they did, it would hurt them.

As shown by threads like this, the typical politician-type personality is not universal.

As for the alleged low character of Trump voters, there's one I know who, much more than the average person, and in a emotionally intelligent way, jumps to help people he passes by and sees are in distress -- regardless of skin color. You can say it's inconsistent for good generous people to support a man like Donald Trump. But many are inconsistent that way.

I'm all for attacking the views, and even the personality, of Donald Trump. But I don't think it's helpful to take a guilt-by-association approach to his supporters.
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