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  #401  
Old 04-12-2019, 03:12 AM
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He looks really crook in the pics of him being evicted from the embassy. Now maybe that was intentional (growing the beard and appearing weird), but if not, then my take is that Julian is actually suffering from a mental illness that needs addressing.
  #402  
Old 04-12-2019, 07:27 AM
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He looks really crook in the pics of him being evicted from the embassy. Now maybe that was intentional (growing the beard and appearing weird), but if not, then my take is that Julian is actually suffering from a mental illness that needs addressing.
The whole business about keeping his bathroom clean and taking better care of his cat fits with that.

The de facto house arrest combined with not knowing what the future holds would likely extract a heavy emotional toll.

I don't say that out of any sympathy. He brought it on himself.
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  #403  
Old 04-12-2019, 11:10 AM
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So, who gets custody of the cat?
This is an important question! Apparently he gave it away to a friend last year.

From the NYT,

Quote:
La Repubblica, an Italian newspaper, reported in November that Mr. Assange had given the cat up to spare the cat an isolation which has become unbearable and allow it a healthier life.

Sputnik, a Russian state-run news source, wrote on Thursday that the cat was taken by an associate of Mr. Assange and had not been at the embassy since September.
  #404  
Old 04-12-2019, 12:15 PM
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  #405  
Old 04-12-2019, 01:28 PM
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The DOJ under Obama never brought charges against Assange for publishing stuff, because of the "NYT problem." Sessions came in and said fuck that.

If someone dumps a package on Assange's porch and he publishes it, he's protected (or should be) under the first amendment

If he knowingly agrees to act as a foreign agent, he's not (or shouldn't be).

And there's a gray area in between those, where a lot of "legit" journalists operate.

Apparently they're not charging him for publishing, but for hacking. Obviously not protected.
  #406  
Old 04-12-2019, 07:42 PM
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Of course not. Have you been paying attention at all? He was avoiding extradition for some very serious shit in two different countries.
Literally, it seems!
  #407  
Old 04-14-2019, 07:37 PM
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And suddenly, Labour MPs and Lords have discovered that it's really important that Asante be extradited to Sweden to face the sex assault charges, which should take priority over the US hacking charge, and all the emphasis being given to the hacking charge shows that sexual assaults are not taken seriously.

Remind me - were there any similar letters from Labour politicians when Sweden was trying to get him extradited a few years ago, urging the Britis government to extradite him?

Julian Asante must face Swedish justice first - MPs and peers

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47917325

Last edited by Northern Piper; 04-14-2019 at 07:38 PM.
  #408  
Old 05-01-2019, 09:55 AM
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Julian Assange has been sentenced to just under a year in jail for breaching bail conditions after spending almost seven years inside the Ecuadorian embassy in London.

A judge largely rejected the mitigating factors put forward by lawyers for the WikiLeaks founder, who had also written a letter in which he expressed regret for his actions but claimed he had been left with no choice.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...g-bail-in-2012
  #409  
Old 05-01-2019, 10:01 AM
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And suddenly, Labour MPs and Lords have discovered that it's really important that Asante be extradited to Sweden to face the sex assault charges, which should take priority over the US hacking charge, and all the emphasis being given to the hacking charge shows that sexual assaults are not taken seriously....
I am shocked - shocked! - to learn that there may be hypocrisy among some British politicians.
  #410  
Old 05-01-2019, 10:13 AM
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Now on to the extradition hearing:

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe...e16908e48f6864

Quote:
The extradition hearing will be held via video link at Londons Westminster Crown Court tomorrow.

The legal battle against extradition is likely to be hard-fought, with several appeals, and may take up to a couple of years.
  #411  
Old 05-13-2019, 10:33 AM
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Sweden has re-opened the rape investigation, and will likely bring another extradition request.

Julian Assange: Sweden reopens rape investigation
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  #412  
Old 06-02-2019, 10:02 AM
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So, several developments over the past week.

1. Assange has been charged by the US with spying. This is a serious development, since the Justice Department under Obama had taken the view that since Assange was acting as a journalist, so 1st Amendment would apply to protect him, just like other news outlets. The DOJ now appears to be arguing that he wasn't a "true journalist". The US has or will apply for extradition.

WikiLeaks founder indicted on Espionage Act charges, raising issue of press freedoms

2. Assange will not face charges for leaking information about the CIA's "Vault 7" - technical problems with bringing charges under US law, plus the traditional concern of spooks that to prove the case, they would have to reveal more information about their spy craft than they are willing to allow.

Assange won’t face charges over role in devastating CIA leak

3. Alan Dershowitz predicts that Assange will not be extradited. He thought that the single charge of counselling/abetting Manning to break into a computer would have warranted extradition, but as soon as the DOJ added the charges for publishing documents, they made extradition much more unlikely. Time will tell.

Dershowitz predicts Assange won't be extradited, face U.S. charges

4. UN rapporteur on torture has released report that Assange shows symptoms of psychological torture, and would risk having his human rights violated if extradited to the US.

Julian Assange shows symptoms of psychological torture, UN expert says
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Last edited by Northern Piper; 06-02-2019 at 10:02 AM.
  #413  
Old 06-02-2019, 10:18 AM
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Torture by whom?
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  #414  
Old 06-02-2019, 10:48 AM
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The cat.
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  #415  
Old 06-02-2019, 01:39 PM
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The UN press release does not get down to the specifics. I would very much like to see the special rapporteur' full report. Specifically, to what degree is Assange limited in access to documents and time with his lawyers, what indicates that Assange would not have a fair trial in the USA, and what indicates that freedom of the press in the USA will be harmed if the matter proceeds.

Based on my own bias, would I trust the USA to give Assange a fair trial? No.

Based on my own bias, would I expect the USA to move against freedom of the press? Yes.

But that is just my bias. Without the full details having been made public, I have to wonder if the Special Rapporteur is also going on bias.

What I like is that the Special Rapporteur is not concerned about mission creep beyond torture, and gets into the very important underlying issue of freedom of the press.
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  #416  
Old 06-02-2019, 01:49 PM
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Sorry, missed edit (got distracted by Buddy the World's Friendliest Cat). Posted "freedom of the press" when I should have posted "freedom of expression, which in this matter implies freedom of the press."
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Last edited by Muffin; 06-02-2019 at 01:50 PM.
  #417  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:12 PM
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Torture by whom?


The UN HR Committee report that I mentioned way back at the start of this thread said that he was arbitrarily detained by the British by not allowing him to leave the Embassy and the UK. The fact that he had a charge pending for breaching bail conditions apparently did not justify the lengthy attempt by the British to arrest him.

I guess that's now been elevated to torture.
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  #418  
Old 06-02-2019, 11:17 PM
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I guess that's now been elevated to torture.
Seven-Eleven was out of Coke Zero today. Certainly that qualifies.
  #419  
Old 06-03-2019, 12:41 AM
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What does he think we happen after the Swedes get him? Is there any future where he doesn't eventually arrive in the US for trial?
  #420  
Old 06-03-2019, 01:39 AM
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AIUI, The Swedish arrest warrant was to get him formally interviewed on one of the remaining charges still outstanding; whether that would lead to a trial and imprisonment on that charge is another issue; how they would respond to a US extradition request (particularly on charges beyond actually hacking) is yet another.
  #421  
Old 06-03-2019, 12:41 PM
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The cat.

The cat abandoned its asylum claim back in the fall of 2018. Since it was not facing any charges in Britain, it has successfully re-integrated into British society.
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  #422  
Old 06-03-2019, 01:24 PM
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Swedish court rejects request to detain Julian Assange

To be honest, whatever our opinion of Assange, the Swedish charges were always bullshit.
  #423  
Old 06-03-2019, 01:35 PM
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Swedish court rejects request to detain Julian Assange

To be honest, whatever our opinion of Assange, the Swedish charges were always bullshit.
I don't know whether Assange is guilty of the charges in Sweden, but I am totally confident that the theories of Sweden conspiring to get Assange extradited to the United States are the most aromatic version of cow poop seen in this whole debacle.
  #424  
Old 06-03-2019, 02:01 PM
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Since the new charges have been laid by the US, it looks highly unlikely that the UK courts will ever allow him to be extradited. Or the European Court of Human Rights, if the UK is still in the EU at that time. I have no idea know how the Swedish courts would rule.
  #425  
Old 06-03-2019, 02:17 PM
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Since the new charges have been laid by the US, it looks highly unlikely that the UK courts will ever allow him to be extradited. Or the European Court of Human Rights, if the UK is still in the EU at that time. I have no idea know how the Swedish courts would rule.
But if Assange were sent to Sweden, the UK would still have to sign off on his subsequent extradition to the US.

That means the whole concept of "getting Assange to Sweden so he can be extradited for things that the UK wouldn't allow him to be extradited for" has always been a conspiracy theory about as plausible as the US executing a drone strike on the Ecuadorian Embassy.
  #426  
Old 06-03-2019, 11:38 PM
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But if Assange were sent to Sweden, the UK would still have to sign off on his subsequent extradition to the US.
Who would have to sign off on it, the British courts or only the Home Secretary?
  #427  
Old 06-03-2019, 11:50 PM
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May 30, 2019. Julian Assange was too ill to appear by video link for the latest hearing in relation to his possible extradition to the US, lawyers for the WikiLeaks founder told a court. The hearing was the first since 2 May, when lawyers for the US government began pressing its case to extradite him to face trial for what they described as one the largest compromises of classified information in history. However, his solicitor Gareth Peirce told a judge at Westminster magistrates court in London on Thursday that Assange was too ill to appear by video link from prison. The date for the next hearing was confirmed as 12 June...

WikiLeaks said on Tuesday the Australian had been moved to the hospital wing of Belmarsh after a “dramatic” loss of weight and deteriorating health. “Mr Assange’s health had already significantly deteriorated after seven years inside the Ecuadorian embassy, under conditions that were incompatible with basic human rights,” WikiLeaks said in statement. “During the seven weeks in Belmarsh his health has continued to deteriorate and he has dramatically lost weight. The decision of prison authorities to move him to the ward speaks for itself.”
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...nk-lawyers-say

Last edited by PastTense; 06-03-2019 at 11:50 PM.
  #428  
Old 06-04-2019, 07:07 AM
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Who would have to sign off on it, the British courts or only the Home Secretary?
So are you conceding that both the UK and Sweden would have to agree to extradite Assange from Sweden to the US, and now youre just trying to angle in on why this is part of Trumps evil plan?
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:52 AM
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So are you conceding that both the UK and Sweden would have to agree to extradite Assange from Sweden to the US, and now youre just trying to angle in on why this is part of Trumps evil plan?
I haven't disputed that the UK would have to agree. Please don't attribute imagined arguments or motives to me.

I don't know what the Swedish laws on extradition or freedom of the press are, but if they are less stringent than the UK, and if only the UK Home Secretary has to sign off on extradition to a third country, then it may well be easier to extradite him from Sweden.

There must be some reason why Sweden has been pursuing this so intensely for so long. I assume you know that no charges have ever been laid against Assange in Sweden. All this is about investigating whether or not charges should be laid. Charges which are not actually serious, despite the continual repetition of 'rape'. There has never been any dispute that the sex was consensual, and that both women remained on good terms with him for days after the alleged incidents.

That doesn't mean I like Assange. It means I like the truth.
  #430  
Old 06-04-2019, 08:12 AM
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There must be some reason why Sweden has been pursuing this so intensely for so long. I assume you know that no charges have ever been laid against Assange in Sweden. All this is about investigating whether or not charges should be laid.
Suspects are not formally charged in Sweden until there's been an interview. That's applicable to all suspects:
Quote:
It is a feature of Swedish criminal procedure that a person is formally charged – through an indictment – at a relatively late stage of the process. As pointed out above, this takes place when the preliminary investigation is to terminate. This differs quite markedly from legal systems in which a person is charged on a lower degree of suspicion and is then detained or given bail while the police or prosecution authorities continue with the investigation. It is therefore not at all unusual for the Swedish Public Prosecutor to issue an European arrest warrant or a request for extradition of a suspect, before making a decision to indict the person. This does not detract from the fact that the request nonetheless is made for the purpose of prosecution, albeit that there is no actual indictment. The distinction between the overall process of prosecution (lagfring) and the actual act of prosecuting a person through indictment may be a source of confusion for foreign lawyers who only have access to translated texts of the Swedish legislation.
http://www.congreso.es/docu/docum/dd...85/pdfs/24.pdf

And yet for years, you have asserted that something is rotten in Stockholm because the Swedes didn't change their entire system of prosecution for Assange.

Quote:
I don't know what the Swedish laws on extradition or freedom of the press are, but if they are less stringent than the UK, and if only the UK Home Secretary has to sign off on extradition to a third country, then it may well be easier to extradite him from Sweden.
I see no reason why the extradition process would be any different. If you want to pursue this, bring cites. And not "a-ha the flag has GOLD FRINGE on it meaning Assange's case will be heard in a maritime court!" sort of cites.

Quote:
Charges which are not actually serious, despite the continual repetition of 'rape'. There has never been any dispute that the sex was consensual, and that both women remained on good terms with him for days after the alleged incidents.
I've heard a better translation of the charges is "molestation." If you prefer, I'll use that term in the future if you will.

Quote:
That doesn't mean I like Assange. It means I like the truth.
Well, your mind has been thoroughly made up that he's been framed for several years now, so let's not pretend you'd be an impartial juror.

Last edited by Ravenman; 06-04-2019 at 08:14 AM.
  #431  
Old 06-04-2019, 08:26 AM
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Here's a reason the extradition process may be different: it's two different countries with two different legal systems. You don't exactly sound very impartial yourself.
  #432  
Old 06-04-2019, 08:39 AM
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But it doesn't look like Sweden is going to be able to extradite him any time soon:
Julian Assange: Swedish judge rejects detention of Wikileaks founder
Quote:
Prosecutors said Assange had not co-operated with their investigation into a 2010 allegation of rape against the Wikileaks founder, and so should be remotely held for questioning.

This would have allowed them to move forward with steps to extradite him.

But the judge rejected the motion, as Assange is already detained in the UK.
  #433  
Old 06-04-2019, 08:49 AM
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It's pretty clearly a set up - for it to happen at that time. What is unclear is who stands to benefit.
  #434  
Old 06-04-2019, 08:51 AM
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Here's a reason the extradition process may be different: it's two different countries with two different legal systems. You don't exactly sound very impartial yourself.
I've said before that I don't know if he molested the women or not. But I strongly disagree with the notion that people should be free to flee justice because they are an Internet hero to some. Further, if the case is as bad as some people assert, then why flee? (Other than conspiracy theories about the inoffensive Swedes conspiring to send him to Guantanamo or whatever.)

I also have significant reservations about the U.S. charging him with crimes that border on his activities that touch on legitimate news collection in this country. We know he took classified documents and published them -- I'm very wary that he should be punished for this, as it could seriously impact the freedom of the press in this country. But if he conspired to hack passwords, or worked as a witting agent of the GRU in the whole Hillary email thing, I'm fine with him having his day in court over those kinds of activities.
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:13 PM
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Let me give some basic facts about the Swedish case.

20 Aug 2010 - two women laid a complaint.
25 Aug - Chief Public Prosecutor Eva Finn said there was no evidence of a crime, and dropped the case.

30 Aug - Assange was interviewed by the Stockholm police.
1 Sep - Director of Public Prosecutions Marianne Ny reopened the case.

Nothing further happened for 3 weeks.

27 Sep - Assange notified the prosecutor's office that he was leaving and asked if they wanted to interview him before he left. He was told they didn't need to interview him, and he could leave.

18 Nov - An arrest warrant was issued, and they started proceedings to extradite him... in order to interview him...

Assange was willing to return to Sweden if they would guarantee that he would not be extradited to the US. They were not prepared to give that guarantee.
They were always welcome to interview him any time in the Ecuadorian embassy, but they were not prepared to interview him in the UK.

A Swedish judge has now ruled that there is no need to extradite him, and he should be interviewed in the UK.
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:29 PM
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This seems far more diligent than how investigations are generally handled in the case of rape reports, at least in the United States --

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...no-prison.html
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  #437  
Old 06-04-2019, 12:40 PM
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Let me give some basic facts about the Swedish case.
While you're talking about basic facts, how is it that you overlooked for so long that the lack of a formal charge at this stage of investigation is the norm for the Swedish justice system? You've been portraying it as evidence of a conspiracy for several years now.
  #438  
Old 06-04-2019, 03:13 PM
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But it doesn't look like Sweden is going to be able to extradite him any time soon:
Julian Assange: Swedish judge rejects detention of Wikileaks founder
But only because they don't need to extradite him to interview him. Since he's in British custody, they can get a European investigation order and conduct an interview while he's held by the UK without moving him to Sweden. It doesn't fundamentally change the process for Swedish charges, they'll still interview him and, if they think charges are warranted, apply to extradite him when they indict him. It's not a case where the judge said "these charges need to be dropped", the judge just said "you don't need to extradite him to interview him, so interview him with the process that doesn't require extradition".

From the cited article:
Quote:
"the investigation can proceed with the help of a European investigation order, which does not require Julian Assanges detention (in Sweden). The court therefore does not find it proportional to detain Julian Assange, the judgment said.

Responding to the ruling, the Swedish prosecutor Eva-Marie Persson said: The investigation continues with interviews in Sweden. I will also issue a European investigation order in order to interview Julian Assange. No date has been set yet. We will constantly review the state of the investigation.
  #439  
Old 06-05-2019, 04:35 AM
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Two questions:

1) Have reliable details of the alleged “rape” action been published? I’ve seen a rumour and its basis would make a rape case pretty borderline, but I haven’t seen any substantial details from any respected news source.

2) What’s the opinion of Julian Assange in Australia? If he’s not extradited somewhere by the UK, I assume he’s going to get deported back to Australia where new extradition requests would then be filed.
  #440  
Old 06-05-2019, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Wrenching Spanners View Post
Two questions:

1) Have reliable details of the alleged rape action been published? Ive seen a rumour and its basis would make a rape case pretty borderline, but I havent seen any substantial details from any respected news source.
Guardian:
10 days in Sweden: the full allegations against Julian Assange

Reuters:
Special Report: STD fears sparked case against WikiLeaks boss
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