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  #201  
Old 12-28-2017, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by nachtmusick View Post
Trump may turn out to be the best thing that ever happened for feminism.
Did it hurt your fingers to type this?
  #202  
Old 12-28-2017, 10:26 AM
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Republican Senators Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska joined with McCain and the Democrats to preserve the Affordable Health Care Act. These are two women I want to know more about.
  #203  
Old 12-28-2017, 10:32 AM
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Republican Senators Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska joined with McCain and the Democrats to preserve the Affordable Health Care Act. These are two women I want to know more about.

But after that they put arsenic in the ACA's soup when they killed the individual mandate via the tax reform bill.
  #204  
Old 12-28-2017, 10:39 AM
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Yes, but in that instance they didn't have to go against their tribe to do so.
  #205  
Old 12-28-2017, 11:50 AM
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Considering she was addressing the U.N., that would be audience level appropriate.
Yeah, comments like that. Very mature.
  #206  
Old 12-28-2017, 12:36 PM
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After eight years of a Democrat in the White House, the GOP starts out ahead.
There may be a slight drift towards a change but she was running against Donald fucking Trump. That slight current she was swimming against isn't what killed her.

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Every candidate has strengths and weaknesses. One strength Hillary had was the good US economic performance when her husband was president. Some of the younger people here may not recall that, but older people who do remember vote a lot. And that's where Bernie Sanders is, in an electoral sense, weak -- because the world socialism is not a electoral positive in the US. On economics, Hillary was strong, and you can't assume someone else would be.
That's the problem. To many people, her biggest qualification was being married to Bill Clinton. On economics, Hillary was seen a globalist and a lot of people were pretty sick and tired of seeing all this economic prosperity in China based on free and open markets and all the wage suppression here based on a lax immigration policy.

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At the national level, no candidate is immune to opposition research.
She was, there was nothing we didn't know before the campaign except the fact that she cheated (or people cheated for her) during the primaries.

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One theory is that after an exciting President, people want someone boring, and visa versa. Boring sounds good to me right now (and I am a swing voter).
Wait was Obama the exciting president or was he boring because I thought he was pretty exciting. Tingle up my leg and everything.

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Another theory, which I hope isn't true, is that it doesn't matter who the candidate is -- all that matters is whether it is a Democratic or Republican year. The fact that Donald friggin' Trump could, in 2016, beat a mainstream Democrat, provides evidence in that direction.
It was Hillary. Trump won because of Hillary. We can't just throw anyone up there in 2020 and expect them to beat Trump. They have to be appealing to the majority of the electorate, not just the "ready for Hillary" crowd.
  #207  
Old 12-28-2017, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ibn Warraq View Post
Gay people just “pretended” they had it worse?

That comment is asinine.

In many ways it was demonstrably more difficult to be gay than to be black. When in many states discrimination against gays was legal it was worse in at least some aspects.

It’s also hardly clear that “gay black people” disagreed despite your claim.
I think when you throw around words like asinine, it is particularly embarrassing to be wrong.

If you recall during the gay rights debate, the comparison being made was not the gay rights movement to the CURRENT state of affairs for blacks in America. It was in comparison to the Civil Rights Movement. In what way did gays have it worse than blacks before the civil rights movement? Or were you premature to use the word asinine when you didn't know what the fuck you were talking about?

If you didn't understand the context of the statement, then perhaps you should make more of an effort to understand the context before you start throwing around words like asinine because it can make you look foolish.
  #208  
Old 12-28-2017, 12:51 PM
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The country WAS ready a year ago, but the Hillary debacle ruined chances for any woman candidate for many years to come.
Maybe so on the Democrat side. But my conservative friends seem to be pretty impressed with Condoleeza Rize and Nikki Haley. Both of whom would be able to pick up more than a few Democratic votes.
  #209  
Old 12-28-2017, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
The country WAS ready a year ago, but the Hillary debacle ruined chances for any woman candidate for many years to come.
I think the Hillary debacle largely soured the nation on "The Clintons". Also, I believe we're going to see a surge of women running for Congress in the next couple years.
  #210  
Old 12-28-2017, 01:05 PM
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I think the Hillary debacle largely soured the nation on "The Clintons". Also, I believe we're going to see a surge of women running for Congress in the next couple years.
This may be true. A shitload of women got elected into the Virginia house and senate. 11 out 15 of the seats that flipped Democrat in the house were women. There were about half a dozen other Republicans that were within a couple hundred votes of losing their seat.
  #211  
Old 12-28-2017, 01:18 PM
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I'm encouraged by the fact that women candidates are proving to be as accomplished bullshitters as their male counterparts. Our local paper is doing a Q&A with all the gubernatorial candidates, and this is what former Congresswoman Betty Sutton (D) had to say in refusing to answer the question about raising taxes:

"As governor, I will reprioritize our state's revenues and funding holistically, so that we can adequately find the resources we need to immediately tackle these large problems without just looking at each individually within the current framework."

Congratulations, Betty! No male candidate could've emitted a bigger load of evasive crap.
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A shitload of women
Evocative. Wasn't that the title of a song by Bill Haley and the Comets?
  #212  
Old 12-28-2017, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post
I'm encouraged by the fact that women candidates are proving to be as accomplished bullshitters as their male counterparts. Our local paper is doing a Q&A with all the gubernatorial candidates, and this is what former Congresswoman Betty Sutton (D) had to say in refusing to answer the question about raising taxes:

"As governor, I will reprioritize our state's revenues and funding holistically, so that we can adequately find the resources we need to immediately tackle these large problems without just looking at each individually within the current framework."

Congratulations, Betty! No male candidate could've emitted a bigger load of evasive crap.Evocative. Wasn't that the title of a song by Bill Haley and the Comets?
Most of the women here in Virginia seemed to be running on one or two actual issue. For example: there is a transwoman that won running simply on reducing traffic on a two lane road. The traffic on this road probably affects over 10,000 people.

Another woman ran mostly on the Medicaid expansion. She seems pretty conservative for a Democrat but her campaign slogan seemed to be "everyone else is getting this money, why not us?"

And a lot of people were just really shocked at what the Republicans were becoming under Trump.

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 12-28-2017 at 02:13 PM.
  #213  
Old 12-28-2017, 02:49 PM
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For example: there is a transwoman that won running simply on reducing traffic on a two lane road. The traffic on this road probably affects over 10,000 people
Hell, I thought she ran just to beat the moron who introduced the transgender bathroom bill.
  #214  
Old 12-28-2017, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
If you recall during the gay rights debate, the comparison being made was not the gay rights movement to the CURRENT state of affairs for blacks in America. It was in comparison to the Civil Rights Movement. In what way did gays have it worse than blacks before the civil rights movement? Or were you premature to use the word asinine when you didn't know what the fuck you were talking about?
Blacks had black parents, who knew what their kids would go through and give them advice and help shelter them as best they could. Blacks could live lives openly as blacks...restricted lives, with a lot of opportunities not open to them, and looked down by the majority, but, for the most part, they could live openly as themselves. Blacks could have open romantic relationships and marry other blacks, and not have to worry about losing their jobs, their homes, or their lives because of it.

Those were some ways that gays had it worse than blacks before the Civil Rights Movement.
  #215  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:57 AM
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Hell, I thought she ran just to beat the moron who introduced the transgender bathroom bill.
That masy be WHY she ran but that's not HOW she ran. Its a pretty conservative district, there's a reason why they kept electing the dude who specializes in vaginal ultrasounds, gay marriage bans and trans banning bathroom bills that promotes himself as homophobe in chief. But people were able to overcome their homophobia because they hate traffic THAT much.

The Republican's entire campaign was "forget about medicaid expansion are you really going to vote for a chick with dick" "forget about the absolutely fucked up traffic you can't for for the shemale" Turns out campaigning on gender identity politics is not working so well for Democrats OR Republicans these days.
  #216  
Old 01-04-2018, 11:06 AM
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Blacks had black parents, who knew what their kids would go through and give them advice and help shelter them as best they could. Blacks could live lives openly as blacks...restricted lives, with a lot of opportunities not open to them, and looked down by the majority, but, for the most part, they could live openly as themselves.
Blacks didn't really have a choice about living openly. If a black man could stay in the closet and live as a white man, I suspect most of them would have lived their entire life that way. In some ways, having that closet to hide in to avoid the persecution and bigotry was a luxury that gays had that blacks did not.

Gays could live just as openly as blacks, sure their lives would be restricted with a lot of opportunities not open to them, but for the most part, they can live openly as themselves.

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Blacks could have open romantic relationships and marry other blacks, and not have to worry about losing their jobs, their homes, or their lives because of it.
Yeah as long as it was with another black person just like gays can love anyone they want as long as it is with someone of the opposite sex and not have to worry about losing their job, etc.

You do realize that black men lost their lives for dating white women, right?

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Those were some ways that gays had it worse than blacks before the Civil Rights Movement.
So in conclusion, gays had it worse than blacks in ONE way. They didn't have gay parents to tell them how much it was going to suck to be a white gay man who would have to hide their gayness but could otherwise achieve pretty much everything they want in life.

In almost all other ways, being black sucked much harder precisely because they couldn't hide their blackness from a society that hated them for being black.
  #217  
Old 01-04-2018, 04:09 PM
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This comes under the heading of Sad But True: only a white man can defeat Donald Trump.

As bad a Presidential candidate as Hillary may have been (even though she was widely described as possibly THE single most qualified candidate ever to run for President), if she had been a white man, s/he could have beaten Trump.
I disagree. A term I've used about Clinton here is deceptive whereas I've called Trump an honest liar. I should really have called him an open liar. I've been reading about Clinton on Quora and one thing those who've worked with her pretty much all say is that in front of the camera she's one thing but behind the scenes she is a nasty piece of work. Whereas Trump is openly nasty. Trump's behaviour is the more open, so that helped him get elected.
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  #218  
Old 09-24-2018, 01:41 PM
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Is it time to revisit this question yet? We face some 25 months of shifting elec-tides before the next presidential vote. Will the controversies with Kavanaugh, et (inevitably) al, be having an effect on our 2020 visions?
  #219  
Old 09-25-2018, 03:11 PM
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Is it time to revisit this question yet? We face some 25 months of shifting elec-tides before the next presidential vote. Will the controversies with Kavanaugh, et (inevitably) al, be having an effect on our 2020 visions?
There are various "votes". The "black vote", the "Hispanic vote", the this vote, the that vote.

If someone can galvanize and inspire the "stupid asshole vote" the way that Trump has, that person wins. That particular constituency is extremely powerful in the US, and it is not going away quickly.
  #220  
Old 09-25-2018, 05:21 PM
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And a lot of people were just really shocked at what the Republicans were becoming under Trump.
Too little, too late.
  #221  
Old 09-28-2018, 10:31 AM
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Too little, too late.
They are acclimating. Conservatives are getting used to the notion that they have a laughingstock (literally) as the leader of their party but as long as he keeps nominating anti-abortion justices, they tolerate the sexism, racism, an buffoonery.
  #222  
Old 09-28-2018, 10:54 AM
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You say that like they have a distaste for Trump and are willing to live with it, but the evidence would suggest the great majority of Republicans love him.
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  #223  
Old 09-28-2018, 11:10 AM
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They are acclimating. Conservatives are getting used to the notion that they have a laughingstock (literally) as the leader of their party but as long as he keeps nominating anti-abortion justices, they tolerate the sexism, racism, an buffoonery.
Bull. I have yet to meet a Trumpette in real life that had this attitude-all the ones I've met are 100% for whatever spews from his mouth.
  #224  
Old 09-28-2018, 11:19 AM
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You say that like they have a distaste for Trump and are willing to live with it, but the evidence would suggest the great majority of Republicans love him.
The thing is that quite a lot of them live in a bubble in which they are convinced that all the negative press is a conspiracy against Trump and that he is actually making America great again. As Schiller noted, against such wilful stupidity the very gods themselves contend in vain.

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Exalted reason,
Resplendent daughter of the head divine,
Wise foundress of the system of the world,
Guide of the stars, who art thou then if thou,
Bound to the tail of folly's uncurbed steed,
Must, vainly shrieking with the drunken crowd,
Eyes open, plunge down headlong in the abyss.
Accursed, who striveth after noble ends,
And with deliberate wisdom forms his plans!
To the fool-king belongs the world.
Indeed.
  #225  
Old 09-28-2018, 11:57 AM
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They are acclimating. Conservatives are getting used to the notion that they have a laughingstock (literally) as the leader of their party but as long as he keeps nominating anti-abortion justices, they tolerate the sexism, racism, an buffoonery.
He's leaving them alone and he's presiding over a booming economy with low unemployment. That will do for them. Of course, how long the economy will continue to boom when Trump's tariffs start to bite is an interesting question.
  #226  
Old 09-28-2018, 12:09 PM
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IMHO it's very important that Donald Trump not be reelected in 2020, given that he's still in office by then and runs again. But if the Democrats nominate another woman (Elizabeth Warren's name pops up) I believe they will be throwing the election away. Likewise a non-white man-- no matter how qualified.
I agree. In fact, well before I ever even heard of Obama, I always said that we would elect a Black man president before a woman. I'm hoping they nominate Joe Biden or someone of that genre. I think that would do the trick in 2020.
  #227  
Old 09-28-2018, 01:35 PM
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For what it's worth, I remember Bill Clinton's presidency pretty clearly. I think everyone forgets just how much people disliked Hillary even before she was a candidate for anything, let alone President. Plenty of the dislike was surely steeped in sexism of course, but nobody will admit they hated her for being a woman with too much power and influence. Instead, people built a narrative about her that she was untrustworthy.

Now that open sexism is quite unfashionable, people who may actually be open to the idea of a woman president are still left with a vague sense that Hillary is not to be trusted. Because to accept her now is to admit that your opinion of her in the 90's and early 2000s was bigoted. Better to hold on to the false narrative than to admit something like that.

Although it's shitty news for Hillary, who will never be able to be President, it's good news for other women. It's not exactly easy for a woman to win the presidency, but there is definitely some hope, especially if that woman is Republican. A Democrat woman will be demonized the same way Hillary was, but a Republican woman will cut a lot of those objections at the source where people might be willing to accept a woman, as long as she's our woman.
  #228  
Old 09-28-2018, 02:01 PM
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They said the same about a black man (Colin Powell) and yet the Democratic party was the one that managed it.
  #229  
Old 09-28-2018, 04:49 PM
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people ... are still left with a vague sense that Hillary is not to be trusted.
I've just been to a dinner and the speaker was Iain Dey, formerly the business editor for the Sunday times who spent some years in Washington. He described both Hilary Clinton and Trump as corrupt.

Last edited by Quartz; 09-28-2018 at 04:50 PM.
  #230  
Old 09-29-2018, 11:49 AM
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He's leaving them alone and he's presiding over a booming economy with low unemployment. That will do for them. Of course, how long the economy will continue to boom when Trump's tariffs start to bite is an interesting question.
Only interesting to prognosticators who have a compulsive NEED to accurately predict the future down to the millisecond, and the economic catastrophe down to the half- farthing. Those of us who see the inevitability of the various and sundry catastrophes that his administration is facilitating are satisfied that he and all his works need to be gone YESTERDAY.
  #231  
Old 09-29-2018, 12:43 PM
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Those of us who see the inevitability...
will be dismissed as talking unverifiable rubbish and reminded that the track record of so-called experts has not been good. They're doing fine right now, TYVM and that's what they see.
  #232  
Old 10-01-2018, 04:03 AM
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The last candidate to get more popular votes while still losing the electoral college was a Senator for eight years just like Hillary Clinton was -- but he followed it up with eight years as VP instead of four years as SoS; and all of that was after he spent eight years in the House of Representatives, like Hillary Clinton didn't.

Do you think Gore would've beaten Trump?
Even though Gores have been elected for generations, he couldn't carry his own state. And Hilary ran a terrible campaign (did she not listen to Bill?)
  #233  
Old 10-04-2018, 01:02 PM
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I believe Nikki Haley may be our first female POTUS.
  #234  
Old 10-04-2018, 01:36 PM
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Nikki Haley? Mooselini with verbal ability? My gorge rises.
  #235  
Old 05-13-2019, 07:55 PM
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Bump of old thread: With Biden soaring to the lead of the Democratic pack (and looking likely to stay there,) and Trump being the default favorite to win the Republican nomination in 2020 again (unless some true GOP challenger comes against him,) it doesn't look like a woman is going to get elected in 2020. And if Biden wins (he'd be favored to,) then presumably he'd run in 2024 for reelection, meaning a woman wouldn't have a serious shot at the presidency from the Democratic side until 2028.
  #236  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:00 PM
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Bump of old thread: With Biden soaring to the lead of the Democratic pack (and looking likely to stay there,) and Trump being the default favorite to win the Republican nomination in 2020 again (unless some true GOP challenger comes against him,) it doesn't look like a woman is going to get elected in 2020. And if Biden wins (he'd be favored to,) then presumably he'd run in 2024 for reelection, meaning a woman wouldn't have a serious shot at the presidency from the Democratic side until 2028.
Disagree. I think Senator Kamala Harris is going to give Biden a tremendous run for his money. I still think she loses the General Election, absent Trump getting sunk by a recession, but I think it's premature to count her out. It's early yet, regardless.

For the OP, I'd have been fine with Condi Rice in the Oval Office.
  #237  
Old 05-13-2019, 09:53 PM
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It's still too early to tell. Biden is obviously strong, but I read his strength as a desperation among Democratic-leaning voters to beat Trump. If any of the front-runners can convince the voters that they are electable, then they'll be okay. I can't imagine that Biden is the only one who's electable, and to be honest, I think both Sanders and Biden have an age problem. But Sanders can compensate for that because he has a cult, and he has some new ideas. Biden is just the same old safe moderate shit the Democrats have been putting out there for years. And that might be what the Democrats want, but if Biden looks weak even for a moment, he'll come back down to earth, and I suspect it's a matter of time before he does.
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