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Old 02-09-2019, 10:50 PM
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Are adult women having sex with teenagers equivalent to adult men having sex with teenagers?

I am not sure it is possible to have a frank and open discussion about this topic but that is my hope for this. I, personally, am not advocating a position although I will be expressing an opinion. Which is to say I am really looking to sort my notions about this and can be convinced one way or another.

This article is what prompted this post: Mom who seduced teen sentenced to 1 year in jail; DA calls sentence double standard

I get it that we are supposed to view an adult having sex with a teen as a bad thing regardless of whether it is a man or woman doing it.

Here's the part that is likely to trigger a lot of people here...

Is an adult woman having sex with a teen as bad as an adult man having sex with a teen (assume heterosexual relations for this just to keep it simple)?

Why or why not?

For my part, if I think back to my teenage years, I am certain I would have been pretty happy if a hot teacher or friend's mom decided to seduce me. Not kidding, I know it is a trope but it is a trope for a reason.

I do not think most teenage girls would be as psyched in the same situation...far from it.

I know society does not view women seducing underage men as harshly as the reverse...as the link above shows.

Is it really a double standard or are males and females to be judged the same when it comes to this?
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:57 PM
Dale Sams Dale Sams is offline
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Yes its a double-standard. And its bad that men routinely get harsher sentences then women for the same crimes.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:10 PM
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This is frequently used as an example for why when women claim that men are "privileged" they neglect to mention a few things. Like massive disparities in criminal sentencing, drafts for wars, how charities treat them, that sort of thing.

As far as I know the main consistent way men get a "privilege" is they are more likely to be paid more and promoted at work. And also men tend to work more hours than women at work and don't have to take months off during their childbearing years so the amount of bias may be less than it appears on the surface.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:12 PM
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Yes, teenage boys are usually very easy to take advantage of. That's precisely why we have these laws.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:12 PM
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Yes its a double-standard. And its bad that men routinely get harsher sentences then women for the same crimes.
So you would be just as bothered if a 30 year old woman seduced your 15 year old son as you would be if a 30 year old man seduced you 15 year old daughter?

Your outrage would be the same? Regardless of how either of the kids felt about what happened?
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:12 PM
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This is frequently used as an example for why when women claim that men are "privileged" they neglect to mention a few things. Like massive disparities in criminal sentencing, drafts for wars, how charities treat them, that sort of thing.

As far as I know the main consistent way men get a "privilege" is they are more likely to be paid more and promoted at work. And also men tend to work more hours than women at work and don't have to take months off during their childbearing years so the amount of bias may be less than it appears on the surface.
Suicide rates, worse education and more dangerous jobs too.

Last edited by Dale Sams; 02-09-2019 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:16 PM
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Yes, teenage boys are usually very easy to take advantage of. That's precisely why we have these laws.
Sure.

Do you think a teenage girl is equivalent to a teenage boy in this respect?

Put another way, do you think they are both harmed in the same way and to the same extent if this happens to them?
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:17 PM
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Is an adult woman having sex with a teen as bad as an adult man having sex with a teen
Why wouldn't it be? Are there reasons it's bad for an adult man to have sex with a teenage girl, that wouldn't apply the other way around?

If it's because the teenager is too young and immature to consentóare teenage boys any more mature than teenage girls?

If it's because the teenage girl could end up pregnantóthe teenage boy could end up a father.

If it's because the man would be taking the girl's virginity, sullying her virtue, and leaving her "damaged goods" and diminishing her value on the marriage marketódo we still think that way in the 21st century?

If it's because you think you would have been happy being seduced by an adult woman when you were a teenówould it make it okay if a teenage girl was "happy" about being seduced? And in either case, does being "happy" about it really mean it wouldn't have caused any harm?

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(assume heterosexual relations for this just to keep it simple)?
Although considering homosexual relations too might help us think about why/whether the sex of the parties involved matters.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:21 PM
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Why wouldn't it be? Are there reasons it's bad for an adult man to have sex with a teenage girl, that wouldn't apply the other way around?
Yeah.

Men and women are not the same when it come to sexual relations.

To pretend otherwise denies the obvious differences that exist.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:24 PM
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Yeah.

Men and women are not the same when it come to sexual relations.
This strikes me as a non-answer unless you go on to specify how they are different and how those differences are relevant.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:24 PM
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Although considering homosexual relations too might help us think about why/whether the sex of the parties involved matters.
Maybe. Just trying to keep it simple for starters by limiting the field.

If you want to go there feel free. You can go there even if I said I didn't want to.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:27 PM
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This strikes me as a non-answer unless you go on to specify how they are different and how those differences are relevant.
Men are encouraged to have sexual conquests. The more women they have sex with they higher they are regarded socially. They are a "stud"

The more partners a woman has sex with the less well she is thought of. She is a "slut".

Surely you are aware of this. It may not be fair but it is a reality.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:27 PM
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Female teachers normally dont get jail time for this offense.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:32 PM
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People differ. But I think that on average, it is less traumatic for a male youth to enter into a sexual relationship than for a female youth. And I think it's the sex of the kid that matters far more than the sex of the adult.

I'm only talking about teens who are sexually mature and who choose to have sex with an older person. So, depending on the law, I might be talking about statutory rape, but not about youths who are coerced into sex. And I'm certainly not talking about prepubescent boys or girls.

But yeah, the men whose stories I've read who had sex when they were teens (with an adult man or woman) were mostly happy about it, and the women whose stories I've read who had sex (with an adult man, I don't think I've read a young lesbian's may/december story) when they were teens mostly ended up feeling used.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Whack-a-Mole View Post
Men are encouraged to have sexual conquests. The more women they have sex with they higher they are regarded socially. They are a "stud"

The more partners a woman has sex with the less well she is thought of. She is a "slut".

Surely you are aware of this. It may not be fair but it is a reality.
Ok, but you haven't explained why we should give the male far more punishment than the female will get for lowering a female's social value a little bit. Causing a person to generally known as a slut is not something that sounds like something we should be incarcerating people for.

Instead the theory is about a "power dynamic" and thus it was "impossible for a teenager to consent except when they can consent with their peers or consent to commit a crime that will get them charged as an adult". I am not quite sure how this argument holds water. Like, ok, we would consider guard's in a woman's prison to be committing rape because they literally hold the power of life and death ("shot while attempting to escape") or at least the power to make things very difficult for a prisoner in a concrete way, such as witholding food.

What sort of power does a high school teacher or church leader really have in concrete terms over their teenage charges?

I mean, in this case, we are throwing this female teacher into the pokey because she "forced" a red blooded young male to have sex with her. Because what? Did she drug him? Pull a gun on him? Threaten to get him expelled from school if he didn't have sex with her?

Instead the idea is at 15, we can't trust him to give into his instincts. But, umm, adults who hook up at the bar or nightclub...have you met them or seen reality TV? Nightclub goers use approximately the intelligence of a small child in their quest for sex...

Last edited by SamuelA; 02-09-2019 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:39 PM
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And I'm certainly not talking about prepubescent boys or girls.
To be clear:

I very much mean this thread to be about post-pubescent people. I.E. Sexually mature people.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:43 PM
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Yeah, every single story I've read about an adult who had sexual experience as a pre-pubescent child (with an adult) felt damaged by the experience.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:47 PM
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Ok, but you haven't explained why we should give the male far more punishment than the female will get for lowering a female's social value a little bit.
Usually, when contemplating the punishment for a crime, or even if it is a crime, we consider the harm done.

Is the harm (psychological) done to a 15 year old boy the same as the harm done to a 15 year old girl?

Our experience is no...the harm is not the same. If the damage done is not the same why should the punishment not follow?

I agree a power dynamic can be an issue. A (say) teacher or boss using their position to force sex adds a different dimension to the crime and absolutely should be considered. It is damaging in a whole different way.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:52 PM
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So you would be just as bothered if a 30 year old woman seduced your 15 year old son as you would be if a 30 year old man seduced you 15 year old daughter?

Your outrage would be the same? Regardless of how either of the kids felt about what happened?
Yes I would be just as outraged. A 30 year old woman sleeps with my 15 year old son? Thats disgusting.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:53 PM
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This is one of those things that's definitely a double standard and I think pretending it should be equal is a farce.

Yep I would have been happy to sleep with a 30 year old woman at 15,16,17 or basically any age and I do not believe it would have had any different lasting effects than the fact that I was having sex with 15-20 year old girls at 15-16.

Same time I think treating it so harshly for men is a farce too.

It's why Ohio changed age of consent to 16 with a two year close in age exception. 16-17 your legal to be with 18-19 yr olds.

While it's pretty despicable/pathetic for a 30yr old of any sex to be with a 15 yr old of any sex in current society does it call for serious prison time?
Idk my wife's grandmother was 15 when she married her grandfather who was 25. I went to their 50th wedding anniversary.

That said I can't speak to whether most girls feel they would have had some lasting effect from a sexual relationship at 15-16 that would be different based on the guys age, assuming they were having it with guys closer to their age anyhow.

Anyhow, woman on boy.... Maybe some court ordered counseling i feel would be sufficient.

Last edited by Littleman; 02-09-2019 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:00 AM
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Usually, when contemplating the punishment for a crime, or even if it is a crime, we consider the harm done.

Is the harm (psychological) done to a 15 year old boy the same as the harm done to a 15 year old girl?

Our experience is no...the harm is not the same. If the damage done is not the same why should the punishment not follow?

I agree a power dynamic can be an issue. A (say) teacher or boss using their position to force sex adds a different dimension to the crime and absolutely should be considered. It is damaging in a whole different way.
Precisely, whatever psychological damage there may be .... Is likely different so why should punishment be the same.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:00 AM
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A 30 year old woman sleeps with my 15 year old son? Thats disgusting.
Why? (really asking)

For the sake of argument assume no power dynamic such as a teacher promising better grades...pretend it is a neighbor.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:10 AM
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I think in some sense it's a loaded question.
Because if we are asking whether, in general, girl-man and boy-woman relationships are the same, I would lean somewhat on "no": there are indeed differences in male and female sexuality on average. It's nothing like as crude as the popular tropes of "men want sex, women want relationships" or "men value beauty, women value status", but yeah I think there is a difference nonetheless.

However, that doesn't mean there's no overlap, and every girl-man relationship is worse than every boy-woman: the individual details matter a lot. I can imagine cases of the latter that are terrible and the former that are benign.
And likewise for boy-man and girl-woman: it's all wrong, but the harm caused depends on how they hooked up, what the relationship was like, whether they felt free to walk away.

So from a legal point of view, what do you do?
Personally I am OK with equal sentencing even if I suspect one flavor of the crime to usually result is less harmful outcomes than others. Because how we treat offences is (or should be) based on intent. From the point of view of an adult woman choosing to engage in this kind of relationship, she is potentially betraying the same trust and causing the same harm as an adult man: if it happens to be in many cases that she doesn't cause the same level of harm then that's great, but that should not be a significant factor in sentencing.
I will say though that I am not 100% committed to this position, happy to have the debate

Last edited by Mijin; 02-10-2019 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:14 AM
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So from a legal point of view, what do you do?
Personally I am OK with equal sentencing even if I suspect one flavor of the crime to usually result is less harmful outcomes than others. Because how we treat offences is (or should be) based on intent. From the point of view of an adult woman choosing to engage in this kind of relationship, she is potentially betraying the same trust and causing the same harm as an adult man: if it happens to be in many cases that she doesn't cause the same level of harm then that's great, but that should not be a significant factor in sentencing.
Should a crime be judged on the intent or the actual harm inflicted?

If I intend to destroy the world but only manage to trample my neighbor's herb garden which crime have I committed?
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:15 AM
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Its a double standard that infantilizes women/girls while vesting boys/males with agency. Why is the boy regarded as having entered into the relationship freely and absent any coercion (or at least less than his female counterpart) yet the girl is somehow characterized as being as bad as raped and as mild as 'not wanting it", when going thru a mirror-image of the boy's ordeal..I think it's the exact same *behavior* being exhibited by the male and female teachers, the differences in how each form is seen and thus treated is a result of differing social gender roles, expectations, conditioning and perceptions for men and women.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:27 AM
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Its a double standard that infantilizes women/girls while vesting boys/males with agency. Why is the boy regarded as having entered into the relationship freely and absent any coercion (or at least less than his female counterpart) yet the girl is somehow characterized as being as bad as raped and as mild as 'not wanting it", when going thru a mirror-image of the boy's ordeal..I think it's the exact same *behavior* being exhibited by the male and female teachers, the differences in how each form is seen and thus treated is a result of differing social gender roles, expectations, conditioning and perceptions for men and women.
I think teenage males look forward to and seek out sexual encounters. I do not see why they would regard a 30 year old woman differently than a girl their same age when it comes to sex (ignoring the relationship...think one-night-stand).

I think most males would chest thump and strut if they got lucky with a 30 year-old woman. Same as if they did with a girl their own age.

I do not see a 15 year old girl doing the same.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:35 AM
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I think teenage males look forward to and seek out sexual encounters. I do not see why they would regard a 30 year old woman differently than a girl their same age when it comes to sex (ignoring the relationship...think one-night-stand).

I think most males would chest thump and strut if they got lucky with a 30 year-old woman. Same as if they did with a girl their own age.

I do not see a 15 year old girl doing the same.
Depends, there are some I know who were with with 30 yr old men at 15. 60 yr old men by 17. Still Brag about it , in a different way.

Relates more to, I had a driver who took me around town and an apt in Miami on a main drag , I bought fancy dresses..etc , etc
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:39 AM
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I think teenage males look forward to and seek out sexual encounters. I do not see why they would regard a 30 year old woman differently than a girl their same age when it comes to sex (ignoring the relationship...think one-night-stand).

I think most males would chest thump and strut if they got lucky with a 30 year-old woman. Same as if they did with a girl their own age.

I do not see a 15 year old girl doing the same.
All that is evidence of the stark societal and cultural double standards and different realities of men and women that is brought to the table when addressing the issue of gender inequality in the perception and prosection of sex crimes against minors. Its an issue that we owe it to the victims of what such inequality produces, the kids (usually the boys) to fully bring into the light of day.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:44 AM
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Parties at versace mansion at 16 ...that sort of thing.

Last edited by Littleman; 02-10-2019 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:52 AM
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All that is evidence of the stark societal and cultural double standards and different realities of men and women that is brought to the table when addressing the issue of gender inequality in the perception and prosection of sex crimes against minors. Its an issue that we owe it to the victims of what such inequality produces, the kids (usually the boys) to fully bring into the light of day.
So is the prescription to pretend men and women are the same or to understand their differences when it comes to this?
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:01 AM
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So is the prescription to pretend men and women are the same or to understand their differences when it comes to this?
Huh? Thats silly. Of course not. Men and women are very different, biologically, and unfortunately, still pretty damn different culturally too. But we dont formulate harm assessments and calculate punitive and/or civil liabilities based on a subjective interpretation of an individual's personal experience of being a victim.
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:10 AM
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All right, I'll take up the same-sex question. If a sixteen-year-old boy is sexually mature, fully aware that he's gay, eager to have sex, and does so with a thirty-year-old neighbor Bob, how is it different from a straight boy with neighbor Doris? I seriously don't see how it is. And an underage lesbian with an adult, if anything, seems less offensive than a girl with a man. (That's something I've just now realized, so I'm not ready to defend it.
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:12 AM
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Usually, when contemplating the punishment for a crime, or even if it is a crime, we consider the harm done.
So it's a bigger crime to kill a 40 year old than a 90 year old diagnosed with 6 months to live. And it's a bigger crime to steal $10 from a poor person than $100 from a much richer person?

Notice I said "crime" not does it make you feel worse about it.
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:17 AM
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Huh? Thats silly. Of course not. Men and women are very different, biologically, and unfortunately, still pretty damn different culturally too. But we dont formulate harm assessments and calculate punitive and/or civil liabilities based on a subjective interpretation of an individual's personal experience of being a victim.
Sure we do. Especially civil liabilities.
Even the determination of rape or corruption of a minor can be based on how the victim views the experience. Charges are often determined by someone else's assessment of how prepared the victim was to actually give consent.

Civil liabilities are often determined based largely on a psychologists assessment of mental anguish to the victim.

A judges sentencing is often based on how they feel the victim was effected or the perpetrators remorse.
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:20 AM
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Men are encouraged to have sexual conquests. The more women they have sex with they higher they are regarded socially. They are a "stud"
I don't find this a compelling argument because that social attitude is not healthy. That status, especially when driven higher by having an adult partner, gives a boy a false sense of manhood and affects his relationships with women for life. And if a boy does have negative feelings about the encounter, it makes it that much harder to admit it. That's one reason I'm skeptical about self-reports by former victims.

Since a criminal complaint was lodged in the case cited, it's not at all clear that the boy or his parents considered the harm negligible.
  #36  
Old 02-10-2019, 01:24 AM
Littleman Littleman is offline
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So it's a bigger crime to kill a 40 year old than a 90 year old diagnosed with 6 months to live. And it's a bigger crime to steal $10 from a poor person than $100 from a much richer person?

Notice I said "crime" not does it make you feel worse about it.
10 or 100 most places would be the same crime.
Yet 500 or 5000 can be different crimes entirely.
It's not all just theft.

Plus yes I'm certain if you kill a ten year old you will be getting a harder sentence then if you kill a 40 yr old, though both will be murder.

Probably primarily because bc of the perception of defenseless victims.

Last edited by Littleman; 02-10-2019 at 01:29 AM.
  #37  
Old 02-10-2019, 01:33 AM
Littleman Littleman is offline
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That's probably another determining factor here.
The girl is viewed as being more defenseless. No matter how she feels others think she may have felt like she had less choice.

A 16yr old boy is pretty physically able compared to most adults and probably stronger than a lot of 30 yr old women...much less likely to feel coerced.
  #38  
Old 02-10-2019, 01:44 AM
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I don't find this a compelling argument because that social attitude is not healthy. That status, especially when driven higher by having an adult partner, gives a boy a false sense of manhood and affects his relationships with women for life. And if a boy does have negative feelings about the encounter, it makes it that much harder to admit it. That's one reason I'm skeptical about self-reports by former victims.

Since a criminal complaint was lodged in the case cited, it's not at all clear that the boy or his parents considered the harm negligible.
I'm betting the reason complaint came to the table has more to do with his parents feeling inadequate because the boy was living at the other house to get away from them. Probably didn't want to come home when they finally wanted him back and they filed this as a vindictive move.
  #39  
Old 02-10-2019, 02:06 AM
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Men and women are not the same when it come to sexual relations.

To pretend otherwise denies the obvious differences that exist.
A breath of rational thought amid a torrent of politically correct group-think.
Thank you, Whack-a-Mole.

And yet still Mr. Whack is questioned. One wants to ask the doubters which alien world they come from; weren't human physiology and human psychology taught before they made their space ride?
  #40  
Old 02-10-2019, 02:10 AM
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Sure we do.
Even the determination of rape can be based on how the victim views the experience.



A judges sentencing is often based on how they feel the victim was effected or the perpetrators remorse.
Cite for the claim about rape laws?

And the latter bit about sentencing is just that, sentencing. That takes into account individual factors that may have mitigating influence on the specific scope of the sentencing. Conviction, on the other hand, isn't allowed such discretion by those tasked with finding it. Letter vs spirit, etc. The laws that define when a crime has occurred are not shaped by individual perception of the experience of that crime. You talk about rape. Well lets say a woman who is an alleged victim of rape appears before a judge and *by all outward appearances* seems ok and well-adjusted. Are you actually saying that there is some legal basis for allowing a judge the discretion to give a convicted rapist in such a case a more lenient sentence compared to an identical case of rape only the victim was in shambles, simply because one woman is having a harder time keeping her composure than the other? No harm, no foul? That is childish and fucking loony.
  #41  
Old 02-10-2019, 02:17 AM
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There are real, undeniable and consequential differences in the physical body structures of men and women. No one can argue that. It seems like, by the logic on display in this thread, that fact would directly influence how harshly or lightly we should prosecute and shame cross-gender assault, depending on the direction of that assault
  #42  
Old 02-10-2019, 02:33 AM
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Should a crime be judged on the intent or the actual harm inflicted?

If I intend to destroy the world but only manage to trample my neighbor's herb garden which crime have I committed?
Mostly the former; in fact I would argue that it should really *only* be the former.

However as a practical matter sentencing has to take into account the result because
1. The public would not accept running a person over being treated the same as (extreme) dangerous driving; there is still something of a desire for "revenge"
2. We can't know what was going on in someone's mind, so we use results to try to judge intent

In terms of your example though, it simply sounds like someone with mental illness. That's different -- if someone breaks a street sign because they think it will save the world from the lizard men, the appropriate response is to give the person treatment for mental illness, same as with the herb garden.

Last edited by Mijin; 02-10-2019 at 02:36 AM.
  #43  
Old 02-10-2019, 05:58 AM
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I'd say the majority of the time they are equivalent. The only exception is that when a boy has a one-on-one exclusive relationship with an older woman, since society still treats men as higher-status than women, all else being equal, the boy is not entering into as an unequal a relationship as the other possible gender combinations.

If the older person is cheating on an SO, or is just having a one night stand, I'd say they are equivalent, given the same level of enthusiasm in the teens. I'd be afraid for what the teen can catch from someone who likely enjoys a lot of casual sex.
  #44  
Old 02-10-2019, 08:38 AM
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The fact that men and women are "different" is a non sequitur. How are they different in ways that matter for the ethics of consent?

Is one gender more emotionally and cognitively mature at that age than the other and thus more competent to give consent?

If anything girls' brains mature faster than boys' brains do. (A functional difference reflected in changes in brain structure in which girls are two years ahead.)

The ability to give consent is not a function of how physiologically horny someone is, or what wet dreams you had as a kid. It is based on having the individual having the cognitive and emotional maturity to be considered competent to give consent. Boys are slower to mature in those ways ergo if anything sex with an underage boy should be, if anything, a worse offense than sex with an underage girl.
  #45  
Old 02-10-2019, 09:27 AM
Littleman Littleman is offline
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
The fact that men and women are "different" is a non sequitur. How are they different in ways that matter for the ethics of consent?

Is one gender more emotionally and cognitively mature at that age than the other and thus more competent to give consent?

If anything girls' brains mature faster than boys' brains do. (A functional difference reflected in changes in brain structure in which girls are two years ahead.)

The ability to give consent is not a function of how physiologically horny someone is, or what wet dreams you had as a kid. It is based on having the individual having the cognitive and emotional maturity to be considered competent to give consent. Boys are slower to mature in those ways ergo if anything sex with an underage boy should be, if anything, a worse offense than sex with an underage girl.
If we base it strictly on the ability to give consent then two 16 year olds have sex and we must send them both to prison.
  #46  
Old 02-10-2019, 09:32 AM
Littleman Littleman is offline
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Indeed legally they can both be prosecuted in many states
https://www.ageofconsent.net/what-is-statutory-rape
  #47  
Old 02-10-2019, 09:39 AM
Littleman Littleman is offline
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Originally Posted by Ambivalid View Post
Cite for the claim about rape laws?

And the latter bit about sentencing is just that, sentencing. That takes into account individual factors that may have mitigating influence on the specific scope of the sentencing. Conviction, on the other hand, isn't allowed such discretion by those tasked with finding it. Letter vs spirit, etc. The laws that define when a crime has occurred are not shaped by individual perception of the experience of that crime. You talk about rape. Well lets say a woman who is an alleged victim of rape appears before a judge and *by all outward appearances* seems ok and well-adjusted. Are you actually saying that there is some legal basis for allowing a judge the discretion to give a convicted rapist in such a case a more lenient sentence compared to an identical case of rape only the victim was in shambles, simply because one woman is having a harder time keeping her composure than the other? No harm, no foul? That is childish and fucking loony.
In the case of the person below the age of consent.... Do they feel there was overt force or threat used? If so it's rape.
If not it's statutory rape., Corruption of a minor or whatever term the state actually uses.
  #48  
Old 02-10-2019, 09:45 AM
Littleman Littleman is offline
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
The fact that men and women are "different" is a non sequitur. How are they different in ways that matter for the ethics of consent?

Is one gender more emotionally and cognitively mature at that age than the other and thus more competent to give consent?

If anything girls' brains mature faster than boys' brains do. (A functional difference reflected in changes in brain structure in which girls are two years ahead.)

The ability to give consent is not a function of how physiologically horny someone is, or what wet dreams you had as a kid. It is based on having the individual having the cognitive and emotional maturity to be considered competent to give consent. Boys are slower to mature in those ways ergo if anything sex with an underage boy should be, if anything, a worse offense than sex with an underage girl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Littleman View Post
Indeed legally they can both be prosecuted in many states
https://www.ageofconsent.net/what-is-statutory-rape
So do we apply the law equally here as well.
While, because they are not adults they won't go to prison but juvie. They may both still be labeled sex offenders.

We don't, and most would think it ridiculous to do so. Why, because there is an assumed element of coercion in statutory rape.
Simply put people just aren't as willing to believe a woman coerced a 16 yr old boy into sex.
  #49  
Old 02-10-2019, 09:49 AM
Fretful Porpentine Fretful Porpentine is offline
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Yes, it is as bad. Think about it this way:

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Originally Posted by Whack-a-Mole View Post
For my part, if I think back to my teenage years, I am certain I would have been pretty happy if a hot teacher or friend's mom decided to seduce me. Not kidding, I know it is a trope but it is a trope for a reason.
But she didn't. You're imagining a hypothetical sexual encounter that you think would have made you happy. (As a woman, I, also, can imagine hypothetical sexual encounters with some of my male high school teachers that would have made my teenaged-self happy. But they were responsible adult professionals who rightly thought of me as a kid, so they didn't.)

In the real world, outside of the realms of dreams and fantasies, older adults who choose to have sex with teenagers instead of people their own age are usually pretty deeply messed-up, in ways that tend to mess up their partners as well. Also, sex is rarely a one-and-done thing where both people happily move on, especially when one of them is very immature. Usually, both parties have (often differing) levels of emotional attachment and expectations about future encounters, sometimes also mixed feelings about what happened, guilt, pregnancy scares, etc. The emotional fallout from sex, in short, is likely to be messy in ways that most teenagers are poorly equipped to deal with even with people their own age, let alone a deeply-messed-up older person. So the relevant question isn't "Would you have happily had a one-time sexual encounter with that attractive teacher?" it's more like "Would you want your teenage son to have sex with the type of teacher who chooses to have sex with a student, and then spend months dealing with the potential long-term consequences of such an encounter?"

(I say "older adults" to exclude situations where, say, an eighteen-year-old has consensual sex with a sixteen-year-old; it's completely different when it happens between people who are roughly at the same life stage and can, in the normal course of things, be attracted to each other without either of them being deeply messed-up. It might also be different in societies where relationships with large age gaps are expected and unremarkable, but we don't live in such a society.)
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  #50  
Old 02-10-2019, 09:56 AM
Littleman Littleman is offline
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So yes the determining factor between rape and statutory rape can come down to any number of peoples judgement as to where the line is between coercion and threat.
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