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Old 04-20-2016, 11:59 AM
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Harriet Tubman to Replace Andrew Jackson on $20 Bill


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Treasury Secretary Jack Lew on Wednesday will announce plans to both keep Alexander Hamilton on the front of the $10 bill and to knock Andrew Jackson off the front of the $20 in favor of Harriet Tubman, sources tell POLITICO.

Lew is expected to roll out a set of changes that also include putting leaders of the women’s suffrage movement on the back of the $10 bill, and incorporating civil rights era leaders and other important moments in American history into the $5 bill.

Also, Jackson isn’t getting completely booted off the $20 bill. He’s likely to remain on the back.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...10-bill-222204

And for those who don't know who Harriet Tubman is:
Quote:
Harriet Tubman (born Araminta Ross; c. 1822[1] – March 10, 1913) was an African-American abolitionist, humanitarian, and, during the American Civil War, a Union spy. Born into slavery, Tubman escaped and subsequently made some thirteen missions to rescue approximately seventy enslaved families and friends,[2] using the network of antislavery activists and safe houses known as the Underground Railroad. She later helped abolitionist John Brown recruit men for his raid on Harpers Ferry, and in the post-war era was an active participant in the struggle for women's suffrage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Tubman

I see no reason to waste money changing the existing situation.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:02 PM
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$20 bills? Do people still use those?
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:05 PM
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$20 bills? Do people still use those?
In town.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:11 PM
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Andrew Jackson is one this message board's favorite historical villains. His demotion is entirely proper. I'm wondering about who his constituency is.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:22 PM
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Andrew Jackson is one this message board's favorite historical villains. His demotion is entirely proper. I'm wondering about who his constituency is.
I guess Bo and Luke Duke are going to have to rename their car yet again.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:26 PM
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I guess Bo and Luke Duke are going to have to rename their car yet again.
It's the General Lee.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:56 PM
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Andrew Jackson is one this message board's favorite historical villains. His demotion is entirely proper. I'm wondering about who his constituency is.
Dude had a fine head of hair, got to give him that.
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Old 04-20-2016, 02:00 PM
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Andrew Jackson is one this message board's favorite historical villains. His demotion is entirely proper. I'm wondering about who his constituency is.
Lydia, the Tattooed Lady.

("...up the hill comes Andrew Jackson...")
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:24 PM
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Andrew Jackson is one this message board's favorite historical villains. His demotion is entirely proper. I'm wondering about who his constituency is.
Ben Carson is a fan, apparently -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0479c59d6c430


Quote:
After news broke that the U.S. Treasury intends to replace Jackson with Tubman, the former GOP presidential hopeful told Fox Business’ Neil Cavuto he disagreed with the decision.

“Andrew Jackson was the last president who actually balanced the federal budget, where we had no national debt,” Carson said in an interview Wednesday. “In honor of that, we kick him off of the money.”

“I love Harriet Tubman, I love what she did,” Carson continued. “But we can find another way to honor her. Maybe a $2 bill.”
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:25 PM
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I see no reason to waste money changing the existing situation.
Our currency is being changed all the time, primarily to enhance the anti-counter fitting measures in the case of bills. Most of our coins have changed over the last few years for fairly mundane reasons. I think it will be nice to see this important historical figure on the $20. As far as cost, I would guess that a mere picture change costs much less than what is wasted on producing pennies and dollar bills.

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$20 bills? Do people still use those?
Do people use ATMs? Pretty much every ATM I've used in the last decade has given out multiples of $20. My bank drive through also give out primarily $20s.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:46 PM
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$20 bills? Do people still use those?
They're the default in ATMs, so yes. I think all and all, this change is a mistake, but it's probably inevitable, given that Jackson has become the scapegoat for 150 years of US Indian policy.
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:44 PM
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$20 bills? Do people still use those?
I burn mine to keep warm.
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:17 PM
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$20 bills? Do people still use those?
They're the only thing that come out of ATMs. What do you get?
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:24 PM
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They're the only thing that come out of ATMs. What do you get?
I get US$50 bills. Only US currency the machines will dispense. But I'm outside the US and wouldn't know what the Stateside machines are spitting out these days.

When I withdraw local currency (Cayman dollars) I get CI$25 and CI$50 bills, equivalent to US$31.25 and US$62.50 respectively.
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:32 PM
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When I withdraw local currency (Cayman dollars) I get CI$25 and CI$50 bills, equivalent to US$31.25 and US$62.50 respectively.
You have a Cayman Islands bank account, something I can only dream about having.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:15 PM
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I was so hoping they wouldn't pick a black woman. Not that Tubman wasn't a hero, but because now they can say "we already have a black person on our money, no need for Obama or MLK" - "we already have a woman on our money - why bother with Sandra Day O'Connor or Eleanor Roosevelt." "We already have a minority on our money - what are you whining about, Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans?" "See, we are diverse" - all in one shot.
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:45 PM
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no need for Obama or MLK"
Unless you plan to assassinate Obama, he's not eligible anyway.
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:32 PM
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Unless you plan to assassinate Obama, he's not eligible anyway.
Eventually, he will be - neither is O'Connor, but she will be.

By the way, if you want to stick to "Presidents or Founding Fathers" Abigail Adams makes a lot of Founding Father's lists.
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:40 PM
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I'm a little wary of a whole "set of changes" -- let's not get crazy with changing all our money multiple times. I don't want the Tubman Twenty changed in five years to someone else. Let's show a little restraint.
I don't know what the big deal is.

I'd be quite happy having a circulating set of faces on the money, changing them every decade or so. As long as the number that denotes the value of the banknote is printed in big, obvious characters, why does the face on the bill have to remain eternally unchanged?
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The problem is that opening up the field this wide is going to devalue being on the currency, to me at least.
What's the big fucking deal? It's not like every goddamned president, whether on a banknote or not, doesn't have hundreds or thousands of other things named after him. Why not open up the currency used by the American people to a more representative sample of the American people?

Hell, i'd be happy to evict portraits from the money altogether. I'd be just as happy with National Parks, or animals, or scenic wonders, or whatever.

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So you think this situation will never happen: Little old lady receives new Tubman bill at the supermarket in change, not realizing it at the time. Later when she discovers it she goes to the police: "The supermarket gave me counterfeit money!!!"
Yeah, that's gonna be a biiiiiiiiiiiiig problem.

I guess that, because some people still fall for phishing scams, we should also reconsider our use of email?
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:57 PM
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I don't know what the big deal is.

I'd be quite happy having a circulating set of faces on the money, changing them every decade or so. As long as the number that denotes the value of the banknote is printed in big, obvious characters, why does the face on the bill have to remain eternally unchanged?
I don't think we should switch people every 10 years. There's a value to continuity. Counterfeiting is an issue, especially abroad, so familiarity with the general design is a plus.

That said, Andrew Jackson was placed on the bill in 1928. I think we can manage rotations every 50+ years or so. Or 90+ years. Our hardy predecessors dealt with Grover Cleveland in a 1918 issue and Hugh McCulloch in 1902. Somehow, someway, they persevered.

Last edited by Measure for Measure; 04-20-2016 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 04-20-2016, 04:19 PM
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Hell, i'd be happy to evict portraits from the money altogether. I'd be just as happy with National Parks
We do. They're on quarters.
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Old 04-20-2016, 04:55 PM
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What's the big fucking deal? It's not like every goddamned president, whether on a banknote or not, doesn't have hundreds or thousands of other things named after him. Why not open up the currency used by the American people to a more representative sample of the American people?

Hell, i'd be happy to evict portraits from the money altogether. I'd be just as happy with National Parks, or animals, or scenic wonders, or whatever.
It's not that big of a deal.

The issue for me can be best summed up by the Nobel Peace Prize. I know I'm not alone in thinking that it should be renamed the Nobel Wishful Thinking Prize. This isn't even an under-handed slam against Obama when there are so many less-deserving recipients like Arafat.

Other than that... well, as I said before, I'm just not a fan of currency changing at all. For me, the stability in form as well as function is a reassuring element of money. It's meant to be boring, consistent and reliable. You start adding holograms and color and state mottos and you upset the whole balance of life.
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:50 PM
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I was so hoping they wouldn't pick a black woman. Not that Tubman wasn't a hero, but because now they can say "we already have a black person on our money, no need for Obama or MLK" - "we already have a woman on our money - why bother with Sandra Day O'Connor or Eleanor Roosevelt." "We already have a minority on our money - what are you whining about, Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans?" "See, we are diverse" - all in one shot.
Or Sacajawea or Susan B Anthony. Good lord, that was a ridiculous thing to say.
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:53 PM
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Moderator Note


FlikTheBlue's thread merged into the already-existing thread by PastTense. Sorry for any resulting confusion.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:18 PM
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Good choice.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:28 PM
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Harriet Tubman to replace Jackson on $20 bill.


http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/20/news...man/index.html

There had been an announcement that a woman was going to appear on some $10 bills along with Hamilton on others. Now it turns out that it will instead be Jackson being removed from the $20 bill. He will be replaced by Harriet Tubman. I think this is a better decision than having two different versions of the $10 bill. Jackson seems like a good choice for removal given his treatment of Native Americans. What do you all think?
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:31 PM
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Existing thread:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=790951
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:32 PM
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I'd have replaced Jackson with the Cherokee chief John Ross just to piss on his strawberries even more, but that's just me. Harriet Tubman's a good choice though.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:52 PM
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Oh boy, conservatives are not going to like this. I don't know why, and I haven't yet heard any complaining, but it's got to be coming.
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Old 04-20-2016, 02:47 PM
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Oh boy, conservatives are not going to like this. I don't know why, and I haven't yet heard any complaining, but it's got to be coming.
At least some of the more conservative sites seem ok with it. Sure, some think others would have been a better choice but so do many Dopers. No complaints that Tubman is not worthy.

From Breitbart:
Harriet Tubman to Replace Andrew Jackson on $20 Bill
No real partisan lean to the report itself, just the headline embracing Tubman as a Republican.

National Review Online:
Do Not Weep for Andrew Jackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by National review Online
As for Tubman, I would argue that she’s not the most influential woman in American history; that honor should rightly belong to Harriet Beecher Stowe, author of Uncle Tom’s Cabin, the most important of all American novels. But Tubman herself is a worthy honoree, the first ordinary citizen on paper money and a woman of great courage and powerful Christian witness. ...
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:30 PM
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National Review Online:
Do Not Weep for Andrew Jackson[/QUOTE]

Harriet Beecher Stowe would have been nicely ironic, since she had a winter home in Jacksonville, FL after the Civil War.

But I have no problem with Harriet Tubman, especially if she has a gun.
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Old 04-20-2016, 02:51 PM
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Oh boy, conservatives are not going to like this. I don't know why, and I haven't yet heard any complaining, but it's got to be coming.
The reaction I've seen has been favorable, especially since Tubman is often portrayed carrying a gun.
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:57 PM
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Oh boy, conservatives are not going to like this. I don't know why, and I haven't yet heard any complaining, but it's got to be coming.
(Yeah, I just quoted myself.)

It would please me greatly to be wrong about my prediction.
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Old 04-20-2016, 04:19 PM
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(Yeah, I just quoted myself.)

It would please me greatly to be wrong about my prediction.
Too late.

I have no problem with a revolving portrait on our currency.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:32 PM
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This chart shows that $20's are still pretty popular.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:38 PM
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If I had to guess, I'd say that $20 bills are the most ubiquitous paper currency in the US after $1 bills due to the fact that they are dispensed in every ATM I've ever seen.

I live in Andrew Jackson territory. I drive through the towns of Old Hickory (his nickname) and Hermitage (his home) on my way to work every day. Part of that route is also along the Trail of Tears, his most shameful legacy.

In general, I'm not keen about erasing historical figures from places of honor based on 21st century sensibilities. I wouldn't want to rename those towns, for example, or nearby Nathan Bedford Forrest State Park (aka "Forrest forest"). However -- Tubman is an excellent choice for recognition, and the Treasury can't exactly go around making up new denominations for bills ("Hey everyone! Here's the new Tubman $25 bill!"). So I think this is a good approach.

I'm a little wary of a whole "set of changes" -- let's not get crazy with changing all our money multiple times. I don't want the Tubman Twenty changed in five years to someone else. Let's show a little restraint.
  #37  
Old 04-20-2016, 02:14 PM
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In general, I'm not keen about erasing historical figures from places of honor based on 21st century sensibilities.
How about the sensibilities of their own time? I'm fairly certain that Andrew Jackson would not have wanted to be on paper money printed by a central bank, considering he opposed the Second Bank of the United States and issued the Specie Circular. So his fans (if he has any) as well as his foes should be happy with the move.

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Oh boy, conservatives are not going to like this.
Depends on how conservative; the gold-bug hyperlibertarians still agree with Jackson's opposition to paper money and having a central bank.
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Old 04-20-2016, 02:28 PM
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Decent enough, keeping with my thoughts that the person on money should be some badass rather than someone who presided over economic expansion or some boring stuff . And I like that she's not too recent, much preferable to MLK (or JFK), who is kind of "default" in these situations.
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Originally Posted by FlikTheBlue View Post
http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/20/news...man/index.html

There had been an announcement that a woman was going to appear on some $10 bills along with Hamilton on others. Now it turns out that it will instead be Jackson being removed from the $20 bill. He will be replaced by Harriet Tubman. I think this is a better decision than having two different versions of the $10 bill. Jackson seems like a good choice for removal given his treatment of Native Americans. What do you all think?
I think he was the best candidate for removal because he was the least important in our history no matter what negative things he did, compared to Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Hamilton, Grant*, or Franklin. I suppose if Salmon P. Chase was still on a bill he'd be the best candidate.

*Maybe you could make the case for him though
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If I had to guess, I'd say that $20 bills are the most ubiquitous paper currency in the US after $1 bills due to the fact that they are dispensed in every ATM I've ever seen.
I assume Smapti's comment was a joke about current debit/credit card popularity.

I don't know if this is still current, but $20 bills are the most popular in the US last I heard, but $100 are the most popular bill overall due to overseas use.
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Old 04-28-2016, 04:41 PM
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If I had to guess, I'd say that $20 bills are the most ubiquitous paper currency in the US after $1 bills due to the fact that they are dispensed in every ATM I've ever seen.
Well, according to this table, there are more $100 bills in circulation than $20 dollar bills. Looking at the last twenty years, the number of hundreds has definately grown. At this rate the number of 100s will surpass the number of singles!

I don't know about you folks, but I've definitely noticed this trend in my wallet...


Actually, not so much. I have heard that most of those 100's are going out of the country.
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Old 04-29-2016, 03:56 AM
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Well, according to this table, there are more $100 bills in circulation than $20 dollar bills. Looking at the last twenty years, the number of hundreds has definately grown. At this rate the number of 100s will surpass the number of singles!

I don't know about you folks, but I've definitely noticed this trend in my wallet...


Actually, not so much. I have heard that most of those 100's are going out of the country.
I read elsewhere that, while there are more $100s in circulation, more $20s are printed, as they are used more often and wear out faster. And a lot of $100s are overseas, where they aren't taken out of circulation and replaced.

They said that $1 were #1 in both categories.

Right now, I'm not having much luck Googling, so I don't know if this is true.
  #41  
Old 04-29-2016, 10:41 AM
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I read elsewhere that, while there are more $100s in circulation, more $20s are printed, as they are used more often and wear out faster. And a lot of $100s are overseas, where they aren't taken out of circulation and replaced.

They said that $1 were #1 in both categories.

Right now, I'm not having much luck Googling, so I don't know if this is true.
On the page Hermitian linked to, there is a link above the table that says "Currency Print Order." It seems to confirm what you read elsewhere.
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Old 09-10-2017, 03:08 PM
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In general, I'm not keen about erasing historical figures from places of honor based on 21st century sensibilities. I wouldn't want to rename those towns, for example, or nearby Nathan Bedford Forrest State Park (aka "Forrest forest").
NBF, a mediocre general (but good raider) is only recognized so much due to his founding of the KKK. It's a dog whistle if there ever was one.
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  #43  
Old 04-20-2016, 12:40 PM
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If we're going with anyone who is not a President or founding father, then I suppose Tubman is as good a choice as any. The problem is that opening up the field this wide is going to devalue being on the currency, to me at least. It's one thing to pick the best choice out of 100 eligible candidates and something else to pick the best choice out of 100 million. No matter who you pick, they'll have some flaw or fail to represent some demographic so that no consensus can ever be built around that choice.

Removing Jackson is a non-issue for me. I don't hold his failings against him, and would tend to prefer keeping him there because I don't like any change to currency... but even restricting the field to Presidents and founding fathers, there are plenty of unquestionably better choices than Jackson.

Last edited by dracoi; 04-20-2016 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:59 PM
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I'm good with this change. Tubman seems like a good choice, but what's with keeping Jackson on the back? We don't put portraits on the back of our money. An underground railroad safehouse would be a better choice, keeping with displaying buildings on the back of bills and the abolitionist theme.
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:12 PM
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They wanted to put Rosa Parks on the back of the bill, but her picture refused to stay there.
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:36 PM
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They wanted to put Rosa Parks on the back of the bill, but her picture refused to stay there.
This made me quite literally lol

Good play.
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:39 PM
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This made me quite literally lol

Good play.
Agreed.
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Old 04-20-2016, 02:45 PM
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They wanted to put Rosa Parks on the back of the bill, but her picture refused to stay there.
Stolen.

Last edited by lost4life; 04-20-2016 at 02:46 PM. Reason: I meant by me, from you.
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:43 PM
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I'm good with this change. Tubman seems like a good choice, but what's with keeping Jackson on the back? We don't put portraits on the back of our money.
It might not be a portrait. It could be a group rendering, like the signing of the Declaration of Independence on the back of the two dollar bill.
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:27 PM
Peremensoe is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skammer View Post
I'm a little wary of a whole "set of changes" -- let's not get crazy with changing all our money multiple times. I don't want the Tubman Twenty changed in five years to someone else. Let's show a little restraint.
There's no reason we couldn't have multiple circulating designs of a given denomination. That is, a consistent overall schema to readily distinguish denominations from one other, but with a handful of different figures individually represented at each. Those variations could be introduced one at a time, without pulling designs already circulating. Think of it as an ongoing national history lesson.
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