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Old 04-04-2019, 04:00 PM
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The Epic Game store and exclusivity


So, over in the Borderlands 3 thread, I asked what people thought about the fact that it's an Epic games store exclusive for a period after launch, but that's a bit of a hijack for a specific game thread so I thought I'd bring the discussion here.

I'm not that fussed about Borderlands 3, I'll admit - if it's good after launch I'll likely wait for a steam release, or it may just be another game I miss buying because I never quite get the time. However, Vampire: Bloodlines 2 is also going to be Epic exclusive, and that's more of an issue for me. If that looks good on launch, I'm likely to want it, and I don't really want to support the exclusivity deals they are making.

I have no problem with the launcher and store itself, particularly, although it's not as featured a store as the Steam one, and I've got an account on there and am claiming their free games. I've also bought Satisfactory, a game so far up my alley it hurts to sit down, but that's another exclusive and I'd rather have it on steam.
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Old 04-04-2019, 04:25 PM
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As I stated on the other thread, I don't have a problem with the game being an Epic exclusive; I do care about what the Epic client allegedly does.

I've been keeping an eye on Satisfactory, BTW. It's a likely purchase.
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Old 04-04-2019, 04:50 PM
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I’ll likely be grabbing it for my Xbox, so I don’t think it matters...? Is this mostly a PC concern?
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Old 04-04-2019, 06:10 PM
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I'm opposed to it because their exclusivity agreements are anti-competitive and anti-consumer. The customer pays overall higher prices due to artificial scarcity and gains nothing from the deal aside from worrying about yet another platform client. The fact that the Epic store and game client are inferior (where "inferior" ranged from "less features" to "spyware") to basically everyone else's is just icing on the cake.
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Old 04-04-2019, 06:32 PM
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I have no objection to them doing this. And they have no basis for objection if, in response to them doing this, customers decide not to buy it. Decide for yourself if getting the game right away is worth the downsides of the store client or not.
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Old 04-05-2019, 08:56 AM
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I'm opposed to it because their exclusivity agreements are anti-competitive and anti-consumer. The customer pays overall higher prices due to artificial scarcity and gains nothing from the deal aside from worrying about yet another platform client. The fact that the Epic store and game client are inferior (where "inferior" ranged from "less features" to "spyware") to basically everyone else's is just icing on the cake.
This doesn't hold up for me. Does Steam lower their prices because a game comes out on GoG or Humble Store? No, no they do not. In fact, I suspect that the prices of these games aren't even set by the stores. So if you want to blame someone, blame the Borderlands 3 devs. Though they have clear and obvious reasons for picking Epic that have nothing to do with being "anti-consumer".

Also, I'm following the whole "spyware" discussion and find it to be unconvincing. Steam literally publishes a library to let anyone who implements it look at the Steam info that Epic looks at, it's not "secret". And the rest of the stuff? It's kinda important, because the client doesn't need to be running for you to play games. So it needs to check what you have installed, and updates and things, lest it try to update a game you are playing or something.

I feel like everyone is just too accustomed to Steam.

Edit: Also, yeah, I agree with Chronos -- if you don't like it, don't buy it and send a message. I've had series I love move to platforms I couldn't even get without paying $400 for them, and the most I've ever felt was vague resentment, so the amount of internet rage surrounding this seems...excessive.

Last edited by Airk; 04-05-2019 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 04-05-2019, 09:10 AM
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I feel like everyone is just too accustomed to Steam.
And seem to forget the uproar Valve caused when they said the ONLY way to get HL2 was download their new 'Steam' software.
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Old 04-05-2019, 09:27 AM
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And seem to forget the uproar Valve caused when they said the ONLY way to get HL2 was download their new 'Steam' software.
The issue isn't the Epic store or the Epic client per se; the issue is what the Epic client allegedly gets up to. It does not play nice. Allegedly it sends a lot of data back to Epic. You'll note that there's no similar outrage about the Origin / EA client, nor the Nvidia client.
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Old 04-05-2019, 09:32 AM
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This doesn't hold up for me. Does Steam lower their prices because a game comes out on GoG or Humble Store? No, no they do not.
I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here. Multiple retail outlets lead to competitive sales as places try to sell their stuff. Sometimes Steam has the lowest price, sometimes GMG, sometimes Humble, etc. For example, prior to Division 2 becoming an Epic Exclusive, I purchased my copy via GMG for 17% off. Now that's not an option because Ubi is not allowed to sell keys to those retailers due to Epic's exclusivity agreement. There is zero benefit to me as a consumer from Epic's exclusivity agreement and an obvious cost.

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I feel like everyone is just too accustomed to Steam.
Nah. I'm fine with using Uplay or Origin, etc. Heck, I wouldn't care if Epic just put games on their store for sale (non-exclusively) and let the market decide which platform they preferred. Given the state of Epic's client though, it's obvious why they're going the scarcity-through-exclusivity route.

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And seem to forget the uproar Valve caused when they said the ONLY way to get HL2 was download their new 'Steam' software.
Valve had developed HL2. Likewise, no one claims that EA shouldn't be able to sell Battlefield via Origin or even that Epic shouldn't use their own platform for Fortnite: Save the World (the for purchase game). The complaint is about Epic buying up distribution rights to games they had no hand in producing.

Last edited by Jophiel; 04-05-2019 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 04-05-2019, 09:51 AM
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Valve had developed HL2. Likewise, no one claims that EA shouldn't be able to sell Battlefield via Origin or even that Epic shouldn't use their own platform for Fortnite: Save the World (the for purchase game). The complaint is about Epic buying up distribution rights to games they had no hand in producing.
I'm not addressing anything about potential malware as that is a different issue IMO.

Epic is offering a better deal to developers. That is the bottom line. The devs will get a higher percentage of sales from Epic than from Steam or GOG or anywhere else ATM. Why should a developer take less money for their product?

It seems pretty clear to me that Epic is using 'the market' to expand their footprint. Plus, there is a limit to the exclusive period. Lots of things are offered exclusively for a variety of reasons. I am having a hard time seeing what makes Boarderlands 3 or Epic any different from any other exclusive marketing agreement.
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Old 04-05-2019, 09:55 AM
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Plus, there is a limit to the exclusive period.
Of course there is. Games do the bulk of their sales soon after release and are old news in 6-12 months aside from extremely rare examples like GTAV. No one cares about having the exclusive rights to a game that's last year's news. That doesn't make it better for consumers especially for online games that are reliant on active player bases.
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I am having a hard time seeing what makes Boarderlands 3 or Epic any different from any other exclusive marketing agreement.
These agreements are anti-consumer and bad in general and the topic came up in regards to game sales. "This bad thing isn't worse than this other bad thing" isn't much a defense for a bad thing.

Last edited by Jophiel; 04-05-2019 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:36 AM
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These agreements are anti-consumer and bad in general and the topic came up in regards to game sales. "This bad thing isn't worse than this other bad thing" isn't much a defense for a bad thing.
No, but "This bad thing is basically the status quo, so stop acting like it's some new practice brought on by this particular new platform" is, at least, a reasonable position.
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:41 AM
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No, but "This bad thing is basically the status quo, so stop acting like it's some new practice brought on by this particular new platform" is, at least, a reasonable position.
Buying up exclusivity agreements like this is new in PC gaming and that was the topic presented. That it happens anywhere else isn't really relevant. Honestly, I never mentioned it until someone else brought up the Epic thing in the BL thread and I commented on one reason why people weren't thrilled about it (Epic's dealings in general, BL3 is just one more game on the pile). I'm not invested in trying to make anyone else care although the counter-points basically all boil down to "I don't care so no one else should either".
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:53 AM
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I object to it, consumer choice is a good thing and after their rocky start I won't be giving the Epic store my credit card details.

Anything a seller does to discourage potential customers is a bad thing, and obviously a lot of people are discouraged by the Epic exclusivity.

Personally I'm interested in BL3 but I've got so much to play I won't be buying it until it comes to Steam for < $10. Same thing I paid for BL1 and BL2.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:09 AM
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The issue isn't the Epic store or the Epic client per se; the issue is what the Epic client allegedly gets up to. It does not play nice. Allegedly it sends a lot of data back to Epic. You'll note that there's no similar outrage about the Origin / EA client, nor the Nvidia client.
There was massive outrage about the Origin client when it came out, people ranted about it being spyware, they talked about boycotting their games, blah blah...

Exactly like the ranting now about the Epic Games client, and it was just as overblown and bogus then as it is now. Read these articles from 2011:

https://www.cinemablend.com/games/EA...-PC-36690.html

https://www.pcgamer.com/ea-origin-is-not-spyware/

Here’s a discussion thread from 2011 where a few people consider it common knowledge that the Origin software is a “Trojan”. Not everyone bought into the hysteria but it was common.

https://www.steamgifts.com/discussio...spyware-or-not

A few years later people still insisted on claiming it was spyware:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/916373-pc/69633892

But eventually the craziness died down:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/co...wareintrusive/

The Epic Games Launcher is going through the same BS now that the Origin launcher did then and it’s just as ridiculous.

Last edited by Atamasama; 04-05-2019 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 04-05-2019, 01:34 PM
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However, Vampire: Bloodlines 2 is also going to be Epic exclusive, and that's more of an issue for me. If that looks good on launch, I'm likely to want it, and I don't really want to support the exclusivity deals they are making.
Citation needed. They have stated it's not going to be.

Man, I can't wait for Bloodlines 2. The first one is a top 5 for me.
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Old 04-05-2019, 02:04 PM
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However, Vampire: Bloodlines 2 is also going to be Epic exclusive, and that's more of an issue for me.
Damn, it is ? Well that sucks. On the one hand I adamantly refuse to support any exclusivity bullshit, on general principle alone. On the other hand, it's Bloodfucklines 2. My principles are strong, but my vitae is weak...
ETA : ah, nevermind then. Good.
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:42 PM
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However, Vampire: Bloodlines 2 is also going to be Epic exclusive, and that's more of an issue for me. If that looks good on launch, I'm likely to want it, and I don't really want to support the exclusivity deals they are making.
Unless they pull it AND cancel pre-orders, it's on GOG already for pre-order.

That said, yeah, I'm not supporting these exclusivity deals. It's one thing if EA wants to put its own titles only on Origin. I don't like that, but it's understandable to keep your own stuff on your own platform; it's not like I can buy Valve titles on Origin, after all. But for Epic to make exclusivity deals with other companies? So far I have not heard that Steam was doing that, nor GOG, nor even Origin. I'm not buying ANYTHING on their platform at all because of that.

I'm happy with there being more competitors to Steam (though personally I strongly support GOG, and am trying to avoid buying as much as possible except there) but I'm not happy with exclusivity deals. If Bloodlines really does go exclusive to Epic, then I'm at least going to send a comment to Paradox that I am not purchasing it there, even though I am a HUGE fan of both Paradox games in general and VTM: Bloodlines, and the idea of a potentially great sequel is amazing, and precisely why.

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Old 04-05-2019, 05:40 PM
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I'm happy with there being more competitors to Steam [...] but I'm not happy with exclusivity deals.
That's the irony: people talk about Steam needing competition but exclusives are the opposite of that. Epic tries to dress this up by saying "Steam needs competition" but is apparently afraid to actually let the stores compete by offering the same games on both platforms and allowing the customer to decide.

Last edited by Jophiel; 04-05-2019 at 05:42 PM. Reason: Edited quote to clarify that I'm not disagreeing with Mnemnosyne
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Old 04-05-2019, 06:32 PM
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That's the irony: people talk about Steam needing competition but exclusives are the opposite of that. Epic tries to dress this up by saying "Steam needs competition" but is apparently afraid to actually let the stores compete by offering the same games on both platforms and allowing the customer to decide.
Hehe, itís like saying to counter a monopoly you need competing monopolies. Thatís probably not the best solution.
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Old 04-06-2019, 01:45 AM
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Citation needed. They have stated it's not going to be.

Man, I can't wait for Bloodlines 2. The first one is a top 5 for me.
I am very pleased to hear this,it is a game I am very much looking forward to!
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Old 04-06-2019, 10:27 AM
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There was massive outrage about the Origin client when it came out, people ranted about it being spyware, they talked about boycotting their games, blah blah...
When the Origin client came out, some of the games they sold could not be activated, due to the old online activation servers having been removed. They didn't offer refunds for that either, and those games were eventually quietly removed from the libraries of any suckers who bought them.

They still routinely falsely advertise sale & bundle prices. Watch for the price change after you enter your payment info.

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Old 04-06-2019, 10:51 AM
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I am very pleased to hear this,it is a game I am very much looking forward to!
Whew, I thought you heard something new and it scared me.
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When the Origin client came out, some of the games they sold could not be activated, due to the old online activation servers having been removed. They didn't offer refunds for that either, and those games were eventually quietly removed from the libraries of any suckers who bought them.

They still routinely falsely advertise sale & bundle prices. Watch for the price change after you enter your payment info.
My only real Origin experience is Tapped Out and I stopped playing when CS basically said that yeah my game was completely bugged, but fuck you, we're not fixing it.
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Old 04-06-2019, 11:29 AM
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[QUOTE=thelurkinghorror;21577126]Whew, I thought you heard something new and it scared me

I admit, it was an assumption based on the heavy advertising of the game on the Epic Store. Of course, all the games on the store get fairly heavy advertising, because they don't have many.
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Old 04-06-2019, 11:56 AM
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That sounds to me reminiscent of Blizzard, who still sells Diablo 2 and Starcraft 1 for modern Mac systems. The games do in fact run on the current version of Mac OS... but the installer doesn't. The official solution to this problem is to buy the game, install it on a Mac running an old OS, and then copy over the files to the computer you want to actually play it on.
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:49 PM
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Unless they pull it AND cancel pre-orders, it's on GOG already for pre-order.
For Exodus, they pulled it off the Steam store with two hours advance notice during the pre-order period but if you had bought it, you kept your Steam copy. With Division 2, retail stores were allowed to pre-sale the game up until the release date.

Phoenix Point was a real cluster with the dev taking the exclusive payout when he had Kickstarted the game with the promise that it would be on Steam. He said he'd refund people but a friend who had KS'd it said his "process" for requesting a refund was ridiculous. Given that the game was made with the funds of people who you'd promised a Steam key to, talking a payout and telling them to suck it is pretty shitty although I'll admit that's on the dev more so than anything else. Sure it didn't endear anyone to Epic though.

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Old 04-07-2019, 06:56 AM
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The Epic Store provides a much worse experience for consumers just because of how it works. Rather than compete on who provides the best service, they have decided to compete by just buying up exclusivity deals. Sure, it does the bare minimum, providing you with the game, but it is missing standard features.

This isn't the most recent list, but it's representative of how little Epic provides. I've seen more recent ones that bring up privacy concerns.

The thing is, consumers wouldn't use this service at all save for the fact that they are buying up exclusives, giving them no choice if they want the game. The result is an inferior experience, all because greedy devs want to make a little more money and don't care about how the consumers will actually experience their product.

And don't get me started with all the dark patterns in Fortnight, things that use psychological addiction properties to get you to buy stuff in there. I'll just link this video which, after a bit of fun, discusses everything they do. And note that Fortnite these days is primarily targeted at children.

Epic is a very shady company. I for one will simply not do business with them, and hope that the rubes who will just buy from whatever store will not give them enough money to keep on doing this practice. Hell, I hope this practice is a huge loss leader thing that will fail horribly for them.

This is not what we wanted when we wanted a new viable store. We wanted competition, with companies competing to provide the best services and the best products for everyone.
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Old 04-07-2019, 07:19 AM
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The thing is, consumers wouldn't use this service at all save for the fact that they are buying up exclusives, giving them no choice if they want the game. The result is an inferior experience, all because greedy devs want to make a little more money and don't care about how the consumers will actually experience their product.
Fuck, companies wanting to increase their profits? What is this hobby coming to??!?

Seriously, these are not charities. Their only purpose is to "make a little more money." If they offer a product that is worth the price they charge, you buy it, and if not, you don't. If their way of selling is too inconvenient or cumbersome for the price point, that's baked into your choices.

The only moral judgment to make here is on capitalism as a whole. Nothing they're doing is remotely remarkable within a capitalist system.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:09 AM
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Fuck, companies wanting to increase their profits? What is this hobby coming to??!?
Hopefully informed consumer choices and understanding since you still have people who naively think that exclusivity deals are "competition" and good for consumers.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:12 AM
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The only moral judgment to make here is on capitalism as a whole. Nothing they're doing is remotely remarkable within a capitalist system.
Quoted for truth.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:13 AM
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Fuck, companies wanting to increase their profits? What is this hobby coming to??!?

Seriously, these are not charities. Their only purpose is to "make a little more money." If they offer a product that is worth the price they charge, you buy it, and if not, you don't. If their way of selling is too inconvenient or cumbersome for the price point, that's baked into your choices.

The only moral judgment to make here is on capitalism as a whole. Nothing they're doing is remotely remarkable within a capitalist system.
That's a warped vision of a capitalist system. The fundamental capitalist view is somewhat eco-Darwinian : "I make better/cheaper products than X, therefore people buy more of my products, I grow & make more money, I outlive them". That's a positive system, because the only way to break a death spiral is to come up with an even better product than the first guy ; or a way to make the same product cheaper. Everyone benefits, consumer and producer alike.



The perverted version of this good system is to "compete" using things like planned obsolescence, prices fixed behind doors by de facto monopoly holders (e.g. comcast & time warner) or undercutting the opposition to try and get them out of the competition entirely (what Epic is doing). That's not a positive system, as it doesn't result in better OR cheaper products over time. It just screws the consumer over ; and in many cases actively prevents new competitors from appearing to challenge this screwing over by returning to the positive version of capitalism.
Fuck that.
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:48 AM
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At the same time, though, Steam did get its position of dominance in the market by creating a better (and often cheaper) product, and even in the face of Epic et al, seems to be maintaining that dominant position. You've basically got competition between healthy capitalism and unhealthy capitalism, and the healthy capitalism is winning.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:08 PM
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Right now, sure - because Epic is a newcomer. But while their PR tries to frame it that way, they're not the plucky underdog defeating the ponderous monopolistic giant that is Steam. They're scum, using scummy tactics (and I'm not talking about slings being OP against giants) and I for one will not be helping them in this endeavour ; just like I never helped the fuckers pushing anti-consumer DRM.

The simple fact that they built their fortune on scamming kids makes them the Man. They're that guy who made Farmville and whose name I forget, only worse. People need to grok that.

And y'know, for all of its monoply, Valve hasn't been terrible AFAIK. They haven't shut down or shut out their competition. They haven't built loot boxes systems into Steam. The only way they've been "harmful" is that multiple times per year they have a giant sale where people buy games they'll never ever play because they're 90% off (guilty as chaaaarged). I'm fine with that.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:48 PM
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This reminds me of the feelings I had about Arco gas stations in the past. Arco used to charge extra if you paid with a credit or debit card when you bought gas. The point of that was because gas stations generally don’t make money selling gas; their big profits are from the stuff they sell in the store. By paying in cash you had to go in the store and you’d be more likely to impulse buy a bag of beef jerky or a bottle of soda.

I had multiple problems with that. For one, the price advertised on their sign was what it cost in cash, and you’d have to know ahead of time what the fee was or read it at the pump to know how much you were really paying. Also, when I buy gas I want to get it and go; I don’t want to stand inside waiting behind someone chatting with the clerk or wait for the clerk to get off the phone or come out of the back of the store or whatever. I always have bad experiences inside gas station stores.

So I chose to never get gas at their stations. Their gas was as good as anyone else’s, and if you paid in cash you got that product cheaper than elsewhere, so as a pure financial decision it made sense to buy there. But I wasn’t willing to put up with the irritation involved so I never got gas there. I didn’t think that customers who frequented the store were “rubes”, they were just willing to put up with more than I did.

This Epic Games store is the same thing. If you don’t want to buy from them, don’t. Don’t get mad when others do, it’s their choice to. There are so many good games available, and if there’s a game exclusive to Epic you want then you have to decide if you want to put up with whatever shenanigans involved to get it. But they’re not breaking the law or doing anything unethical, they’re just doing what they think will make them successful.

(By the way, eventually Arco stopped that craziness and stopped charging fees for using a card, they even had TV commercials to celebrate it as if people were supposed to be excited that you’re now just like everyone else. Now they’re just another gas station but I’ll buy gas from them.)
  #35  
Old 04-07-2019, 12:55 PM
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This reminds me of the feelings I had about Arco gas stations in the past. Arco used to charge extra if you paid with a credit or debit card when you bought gas. The point of that was because gas stations generally don’t make money selling gas; their big profits are from the stuff they sell in the store. By paying in cash you had to go in the store and you’d be more likely to impulse buy a bag of beef jerky or a bottle of soda.

I had multiple problems with that. For one, the price advertised on their sign was what it cost in cash, and you’d have to know ahead of time what the fee was or read it at the pump to know how much you were really paying. Also, when I buy gas I want to get it and go; I don’t want to stand inside waiting behind someone chatting with the clerk or wait for the clerk to get off the phone or come out of the back of the store or whatever. I always have bad experiences inside gas station stores.

So I chose to never get gas at their stations. Their gas was as good as anyone else’s, and if you paid in cash you got that product cheaper than elsewhere, so as a pure financial decision it made sense to buy there. But I wasn’t willing to put up with the irritation involved so I never got gas there. I didn’t think that customers who frequented the store were “rubes”, they were just willing to put up with more than I did.
......

(By the way, eventually Arco stopped that craziness and stopped charging fees for using a card, they even had TV commercials to celebrate it as if people were supposed to be excited that you’re now just like everyone else. Now they’re just another gas station but I’ll buy gas from them.)
Dang, they still charge a card fee where I live. But with a 2% or 3% (forgot which) gas rebate I get from using my credit card, I come out a bit ahead.
  #36  
Old 04-07-2019, 01:04 PM
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And y'know, for all of its monoply, Valve hasn't been terrible AFAIK. They haven't shut down or shut out their competition. They haven't built loot boxes systems into Steam. The only way they've been "harmful" is that multiple times per year they have a giant sale where people buy games they'll never ever play because they're 90% off (guilty as chaaaarged). I'm fine with that.
Yeah, honestly, Steam's recent move to not police the content of games on their platform (for the most part) has encouraged me back to them somewhat. I still prefer my games on GOG when possible, (DRM-free!) but I'm very happy with Steam's move in that direction. That's the main reason I always felt like Steam needed more competition - the fact that they have been, in large part, the gatekeepers to what games can be successful on PC, and they were in fact keeping some games out. Now that they're mostly not doing that, I'm a lot happier with them.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:17 PM
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I don't get the notion that Steam are "gatekeepers". From what I can see, they'll sell anything - and I mean *anything*. There's a *lot* of shit being sold on steam. And I'm privy to it because one of the games I've bought had the "adult content" tag for some reason, and ever since... oh boy. Let's just say that if anime tentacle porn someday does it for me for some reason, I'll be throbbing till I die. But for real, they're shit games, and I'm not even talking about the content. But Steam sell thems, and that's fine. Just goes to show that the floor is *really* low.
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Old 04-07-2019, 03:13 PM
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This Epic Games store is the same thing. If you donít want to buy from them, donít. Donít get mad when others do, itís their choice to. There are so many good games available, and if thereís a game exclusive to Epic you want then you have to decide if you want to put up with whatever shenanigans involved to get it.
Well, yes, but we can talk about what our individual decisions are, which is what this thread is for.

I've bought things on the Epic store - my kids play Fortnite and have bought VBucks for skins, and I've already said I've bought Satisfactory on it (great game, btw). But I don't like the exclusive practices, and I won't be buying anymore exclusives from them.

I'll still be along every two weeks to claim the free games though.
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Old 04-07-2019, 03:37 PM
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Well, yes, but we can talk about what our individual decisions are, which is what this thread is for.
If only. Here are some select quotes from this thread.

The fact that the Epic store and game client are inferior (where "inferior" ranged from "less features" to "spyware") to basically everyone else's is just icing on the cake.

Continuing the spyware rumor/hysteria.

The issue isn't the Epic store or the Epic client per se; the issue is what the Epic client allegedly gets up to. It does not play nice. Allegedly it sends a lot of data back to Epic.

And yet more.

Epic is a very shady company. I for one will simply not do business with them, and hope that the rubes who will just buy from whatever store will not give them enough money to keep on doing this practice.

So anyone who buys from them is a ďrubeĒ. Itís not about personal choice, if you buy from them you are a fool.

My comments have been reactions to these remarks, which I take exception to.

Quote:
I'll still be along every two weeks to claim the free games though.
Indeed, thatís all Iíve done with their store, period. Loving my free copy of Subnautica.
  #40  
Old 04-07-2019, 03:46 PM
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If anything, Valve seems to be doing what they can to encourage competition. With their position in the market, they could get away with a heck of a lot that they're not even trying, and they'd doing things like keeping their VR standards open, to facilitate other entries into the market. It's sort of like Miracle on 34th Street, with Santa telling people the best place to buy their toys, even if it's not Macy's.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:36 AM
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I don't get the notion that Steam are "gatekeepers". From what I can see, they'll sell anything - and I mean *anything*. There's a *lot* of shit being sold on steam. And I'm privy to it because one of the games I've bought had the "adult content" tag for some reason, and ever since... oh boy. Let's just say that if anime tentacle porn someday does it for me for some reason, I'll be throbbing till I die. But for real, they're shit games, and I'm not even talking about the content. But Steam sell thems, and that's fine. Just goes to show that the floor is *really* low.
That's what I mean about their recent move. It's only recently that they changed their policy and decided to allow basically everything.
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Old 04-08-2019, 02:14 PM
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I see nothing weird or shady at all going on. Exclusives are the most common way to launch new platforms and have been since gaming began. If anything the odd thing here is that someone didn't come in to try and aggressively take on Steam earlier. 30% is a lot of margin to play with. Steam does add a lot of value but they have been enjoying a very high margin for a very long time.

Using exclusives is so non-noteworthy that the only conclusion I can come to is that this is a PC gamer specific issue. Possibly because the ecosystem has been so Steam centric for so long now. Well the store wars have begun, enjoy the show.
  #43  
Old 04-08-2019, 02:24 PM
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Here are some security problems with the Epic Game store:

They don't verify the email given for account creation.

They read data from your Steam files.

Back in January a big breach with Epic Games/Fortnite was discovered.

Not sure if any or all of those have been fixed.

For now Epic Game Store is the young inexperienced kid on the block, Steam has had 15 years to figure their shit out and when Steam was new the Internet wasn't as rife with hackers. Doesn't mean I will be giving Epic my credit card information any time soon, will wait for it to mature.
  #44  
Old 04-08-2019, 02:50 PM
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30% is a lot of margin to play with. Steam does add a lot of value but they have been enjoying a very high margin for a very long time.
30% is only for direct store sales. Due to Steam's policy of issuing no-cost retail keys (for generation or redemption) they make no money off sales from Amazon, Green Man Gaming, Gamersgate, Humble, etc and their actual margin is a bit lower.
  #45  
Old 04-08-2019, 03:05 PM
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30% is only for direct store sales. Due to Steam's policy of issuing no-cost retail keys (for generation or redemption) they make no money off sales from Amazon, Green Man Gaming, Gamersgate, Humble, etc and their actual margin is a bit lower.
Steam really has proven to be a good service in almost every instance. I had no idea they made no money from non-Steam sales of Steam keys! So Steam provides the huge amount of infrastructure to activate and download games for free. That's a pretty good deal.
  #46  
Old 04-09-2019, 06:49 AM
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Welp, they've done it again - retroactively, now ! I just got a mail informing me that one of the games on my Steam wishlist (Anno 1800) which had been available for pre-purchase for a while now is going to be removed from Steam, a week before launch, because it's now an Epic exclusive.
Pricks.
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Last edited by Kobal2; 04-09-2019 at 06:49 AM.
  #47  
Old 04-09-2019, 07:47 AM
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In a very broad sense, it's a good thing that a non-niche primary distributor is entering the market as competition for Steam.

Alternate platforms (Humble, GMG, etc) which sell Steam keys are not competition because they keep gamers in Steam's ecosystem and encourage future sales.

The forced exclusivity thing feels like a shitty way to go about it, but how else do you compete with a near-monopoly like Steam? Only providing a better product (and Steam is a great product) isn't enough by itself - you have to provide a product so much better that it makes up for the hassle of dealing with launcher fragmentation. So they go with exclusivity instead. It makes sense, even if it doesn't make consumers happy.
  #48  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:22 AM
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I'm seeing multiple references to "GMG", now. Is that just a weirdly-pervasive typo for "GOG", or is it some other service?
  #49  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:31 AM
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Green Man Gaming.
  #50  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:02 AM
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Alternate platforms (Humble, GMG, etc) which sell Steam keys are not competition because they keep gamers in Steam's ecosystem and encourage future sales.
Disagree. There's a difference between the game client and the store. GMG, et al absolutely compete with Steam at the store level. Steam gets no money from keys sold via third party retailers so both Steam and retailers are incentivized to attract customers to their store and get their dollars. See my previous link about Steam's true margin being notably lower than 30% because that number doesn't account for the sales "lost" to other retailers.

Steam as a client benefits some from a wider net of sales since it ultimately has people using Steam. But that's different from Steam as a store and there's a number of different clients (Steam, Origin, Uplay, Blizzard, RSSC, etc) who still offer their games via a variety of retail sources.
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