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  #51  
Old 11-06-2019, 10:10 AM
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  #52  
Old 11-08-2019, 09:19 AM
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More front-office drama in the Astros organization as Reid Ryan has been "reassigned" to a less senior role to make room for owner Jim Crane's large adult son, and Nolan Ryan is out completely.

RickJay - per your point on the Blue Jays elsewhere, if the Jays signed one of the big-name third basemen, could they move Vlad G. to the outfield?

Last edited by Tom Scud; 11-08-2019 at 09:21 AM.
  #53  
Old 11-08-2019, 09:45 AM
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CC is gone. German probably won't come back. If the Yankees' goal is to do more than just make the playoffs, they need starting pitching.

My Yankee priorities:

Get two solid starting pitchers. They don't have to be superstars, just guys who can give 6 quality innings.

Trade Andujar. Urshela is superior to him. Torres and DJ can handle the middle infield.

Trade Bird or release him. He had great potential, but he can't play for a month without getting hurt.

Too late, but they should have let Chapman go.

Sign Judge. Keep Gardner another year, sign Maybin. As much as I hate to do so, trade Frazier.
  #54  
Old 11-08-2019, 11:15 AM
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More front-office drama in the Astros organization as Reid Ryan has been "reassigned" to a less senior role to make room for owner Jim Crane's large adult son, and Nolan Ryan is out completely.

RickJay - per your point on the Blue Jays elsewhere, if the Jays signed one of the big-name third basemen, could they move Vlad G. to the outfield?
I do not believe Vlad Jr. has the mobility or athleticism to be a major league outfielder. He's fine as a third baseman for now, because he's young and so more quick than his size would suggest, but eventually he will become a first baseman. As the team is weak there too (forget Rowdy Tellez; he will never be all that good) that's fine. Vladdy is basically Miguel Cabrera 2.0.
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  #55  
Old 11-09-2019, 05:32 PM
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I am hearing that Boras is having trouble getting a lot of interest in Rendon because Donaldson is available for a short contract and Moustakas is probably a lot cheaper. So that traffic jam might need to clear up before the real bidding starts on Rendon. Also noone thinks their bids will be anything more than leverage on the next bidder as in zero chance of a reasonable offer being considered until next Spring.

Rendon is sitting on a 7 year 215 million dollar contract offer from the Nationals. So any suitor would have to top that.

He might be able to get more interest if he will take a 5 year contract.
  #56  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:28 PM
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I am hearing that Boras is having trouble getting a lot of interest in Rendon because Donaldson is available for a short contract and Moustakas is probably a lot cheaper. So that traffic jam might need to clear up before the real bidding starts on Rendon. Also noone thinks their bids will be anything more than leverage on the next bidder as in zero chance of a reasonable offer being considered until next Spring.

Rendon is sitting on a 7 year 215 million dollar contract offer from the Nationals. So any suitor would have to top that.

He might be able to get more interest if he will take a 5 year contract.
Im fairly certain that Rendon wants to stay in Washington. He is from Houston but the Astros really dont need him and cant afford him. And why would he want to go to a shithole like Philly? Take the 200 mil from Washington and go down as a Nationals legend.
  #57  
Old 11-10-2019, 10:08 AM
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I am hearing that Boras is having trouble getting a lot of interest in Rendon because Donaldson is available for a short contract and Moustakas is probably a lot cheaper. So that traffic jam might need to clear up before the real bidding starts on Rendon. Also noone thinks their bids will be anything more than leverage on the next bidder as in zero chance of a reasonable offer being considered until next Spring.

Rendon is sitting on a 7 year 215 million dollar contract offer from the Nationals. So any suitor would have to top that.
My understanding is that Washington's offer has a lot of the dough as deferred money, so it's entirely possible Rendon could be lured away by an equal or even slightly cheaper off if the money is actually all paid during the term of the contract.

A huge $30m/year contract to Rendon will probably be a disaster. He's a terrific player, but 2019 was the best year he has ever had, and he's 30 next year, so the odds are very heavy that he will have no other years as great as 2019. The majority of huge contracts to position players are disasters. It blows up in your face far more often than not.
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Last edited by RickJay; 11-10-2019 at 10:19 AM.
  #58  
Old 11-11-2019, 10:07 AM
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My understanding is that Washington's offer has a lot of the dough as deferred money, so it's entirely possible Rendon could be lured away by an equal or even slightly cheaper off if the money is actually all paid during the term of the contract.

A huge $30m/year contract to Rendon will probably be a disaster. He's a terrific player, but 2019 was the best year he has ever had, and he's 30 next year, so the odds are very heavy that he will have no other years as great as 2019. The majority of huge contracts to position players are disasters. It blows up in your face far more often than not.
The current offer by the Nats is reported to be ~210 over 7 years. There is reported to be some deferral but not like with the Harper deal. If they are paying it out over 14 year then the deferral is worth 3.5 million/year off of true, which brings down the AAV to about 26.5 million. So maybe a shorter payout at the same price could entice him but who would pay that?

I don't think anyone thinks Rendon is anywhere close to being as good as Machado or Arenado so the ceiling on his AAV on a longer term contract is probably around 30 million. As long as Josh Donaldson and Moustakas are still on the free agent market, I don't know who will be bidding aggressively for him.

I think the following teams need someone at 3B and are in "win now" mode.

Braves will probably try to get Josh Donaldson back, I don't see them paying 200+ million for Rendon over 7 years.

Brewers will probably try to resign Moustakas and if they can't afford him, they certainly can't afford Rendon.

Rangers are not really a "win now" team but they might think they have some sort of home town advantage but they will not pay 200+ million.

And the only REAL contender for Rendon IMHO:

Phillies are kinda sorta in "win now" mode and have shown the willingness to sign big long term contracts that might outbid the current contract on the table with the Nationals.

BUT the Phillies starting rotation is very mediocre with 58 quality starts. The Nats and Astros had 87 and 89 respectively. I figure they need to pick up at least one of the star pitchers in free agency this season probably two. Pitching is way more important to them than Rendon right now.

Phillies ALSO have a pretty mediocre bullpen with 36 saves compared to the much maligned Nationals bullpen which recorded 40 saves (and the Astros with 47). Phillies probably need to beef up here as well.

Phillies also need someone at 1B, and they have to shuffle around their outfield.

I don't know how they can make Rendon a priority.
  #59  
Old 11-11-2019, 10:16 AM
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I missed this clause in the Ryan Zimmerman contract.

"After he retires, he will earn $10 million more over the course of 5 years while working for the club."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Z...an#2012_season

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 11-11-2019 at 10:16 AM.
  #60  
Old 11-11-2019, 12:48 PM
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Phillies ALSO have a pretty mediocre bullpen with 36 saves compared to the much maligned Nationals bullpen which recorded 40 saves (and the Astros with 47). Phillies probably need to beef up here as well..
It wouldn't hurt, but the importance of improving the starting rotation is like a million times more important. Bullpens are pretty random, and the Phillies had a pretty decent 'pen in 2018. It'd be easy to add a few cheap arms and see what happens out there, but if they want to improve that rotation right away I think they need to bring in someone expensive.
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  #61  
Old 11-12-2019, 07:35 AM
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No surprise - Alonso and Alvarez both easily win Rookie of the Year.
  #62  
Old 11-12-2019, 07:47 AM
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It wouldn't hurt, but the importance of improving the starting rotation is like a million times more important. Bullpens are pretty random, and the Phillies had a pretty decent 'pen in 2018. It'd be easy to add a few cheap arms and see what happens out there, but if they want to improve that rotation right away I think they need to bring in someone expensive.
Absolutely. It's no accident that 4 o the top 10 and 6 of the top 15 pitchers pitched in the world series.

And they probably need 2 starting pitchers to really make a run.

I'm just saying that there are other priorities that need to be addressed before they worry about upgrading 3B.

So I'm wondering who will outbid the Nationals.
  #63  
Old 11-12-2019, 09:05 AM
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Yeah, I'd agree - I don't think the Nationals are dumb enough to overpay for Rendon. They chose not to overpay for Harper, and if I recall correctly, they still did okay in 2019.

Meanwhile, the Blue Jays, who are at least $100 million under what they could easily afford for 2020, apparently have no interest in signing any good pitchers. Christ almighty.
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  #64  
Old 11-12-2019, 11:25 AM
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Yeah, I'd agree - I don't think the Nationals are dumb enough to overpay for Rendon. They chose not to overpay for Harper, and if I recall correctly, they still did okay in 2019.
I think Rendon and Harper are apples and oranges. From all accounts, Harper sucked all the air out of the clubhouse whereas Rendon was a positive force among his teammates. I wouldn't underestimate how important camaraderie was to the Nats' success year. (Oh and Bryce strikes out twice as much as Anthony).

Winning the World Series.... Bryce-less.
  #65  
Old 11-12-2019, 02:34 PM
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Yeah, I'd agree - I don't think the Nationals are dumb enough to overpay for Rendon. They chose not to overpay for Harper, and if I recall correctly, they still did okay in 2019.

Meanwhile, the Blue Jays, who are at least $100 million under what they could easily afford for 2020, apparently have no interest in signing any good pitchers. Christ almighty.
The Blue Jays are in rough shape. You have a bunch of really young guys and you're hoping lightning strikes and you get a few stars out of them. Your strategy is clearly to hope that all your prospects pop at the same time so you end up with a strong young team all under team control or arbitration for a couple of years. Then with a winning record, you can afford to keep a few older guys that you can build into a playoff team and then you are in "win now" mode for a couple of years when you really have to make a push.
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:10 PM
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I think Rendon and Harper are apples and oranges. From all accounts, Harper sucked all the air out of the clubhouse whereas Rendon was a positive force among his teammates. I wouldn't underestimate how important camaraderie was to the Nats' success year. (Oh and Bryce strikes out twice as much as Anthony).

Winning the World Series.... Bryce-less.
I think he grew up with everyone telling him he was the best and then he had that great year in 2015 and people were saying that he was the best player in all of baseball. He really thought he was the most important guy on the team. He always had been, why should it be any different now.

The fans loved him but he wasn't good for the team It was like the rest of the team were supporting actors in the Bryce Harper show, no one else had any room to grow. It wasn't deliberate on his part but the dynamics were just toxic and everyone underperformed except Harper.

After all is said and done the fact that he turned down a 4 year $180 million deal from the Dodgers (a real championship team), you know he's not too full of himself. If he had a huge ego, he would have bet on himself and taken the 180 million 4 year deal from the Dodgers and then come back at 30 for Derek Jeter type money.

Instead he took 330 million over 13 years from a rebuilding team instead of 180 from a championship team or 300 million over 10 years from a real contender.
  #67  
Old 11-12-2019, 07:47 PM
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I think Rendon and Harper are apples and oranges. From all accounts, Harper sucked all the air out of the clubhouse .
Is this true? I know that's the reputation, but are there actual accounts of this?
  #68  
Old 11-13-2019, 07:16 AM
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And as we already knew, the Astros are cheating assholes.
  #69  
Old 11-13-2019, 08:54 AM
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So the 2017 world series MVP was some guy banging on a trash can?
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Old 11-13-2019, 01:23 PM
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Ok, so how big a scandal is this? On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being "everyone does it" to 10 being "you bribed an umpire".

I'd put it at a 6, where it clearly violates the integrity of the game, but isn't a banned for life type of deal.


This scandal did get me to learn about an incident from the 1950's Yankees, where one of their pitchers would whistle if he caught a sign. The opposing pitcher was so pissed, he gave Mickey Mantle some chin music. When Yogi got up next he yelled "He may be whistling, but I ain't listening!"

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  #71  
Old 11-13-2019, 02:11 PM
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Is this true? I know that's the reputation, but are there actual accounts of this?
I don't have a cite for you, but I watched about 60% of the Nats' games both this summer and in 2018. The difference in the dugout atmosphere was blatantly obvious.


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Ok, so how big a scandal is this?
They should have the '17 championship revoked and forfeit Verlander and Greinke to the Nats.
  #72  
Old 11-13-2019, 02:20 PM
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The Blue Jays are in rough shape. You have a bunch of really young guys and you're hoping lightning strikes and you get a few stars out of them. Your strategy is clearly to hope that all your prospects pop at the same time so you end up with a strong young team all under team control or arbitration for a couple of years. Then with a winning record, you can afford to keep a few older guys that you can build into a playoff team and then you are in "win now" mode for a couple of years when you really have to make a push.
The team on the field is not good, but the organization is in good shape; there is very little dead money left on the books and very talented young hitters in the lineup. Compare this with teams with dead money or just without a lot of prospects; the Jays will produce some very good players, and have the dough to fill in the gaps.

If they'll spend it. Rogers is weirdly cheap. The team is immensely rich and in a huge market that is extremely win-sensitive. They could spend like crazy if they wanted to and go get Gerrit Cole and Stephen Strasburg and a few hitters, too.
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  #73  
Old 11-13-2019, 02:32 PM
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Yogi also said: I really didn't say everything I said. Coincidentally, that remark came in an interview after having just joined the Houston Astros coaching staff in 1986.

Here is a Jomboy Media vid (2 mins, 21 secs) highlighting an instance Houston cheating. Not the biggest scandal, but someone should get fined, at least. It's practically institutionalized, which makes you wonder about the culture down there, factoring in other recent events.
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Old 11-13-2019, 05:53 PM
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They should have the '17 championship revoked and forfeit Verlander and Greinke to the Nats.
Revoke the championship and forfeit Verlander to the team they cheated out of the Series. Send Greinke to the Padres.

Last edited by silenus; 11-13-2019 at 05:54 PM.
  #75  
Old 11-14-2019, 07:41 AM
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Ok, so how big a scandal is this? On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being "everyone does it" to 10 being "you bribed an umpire".

I'd put it at a 6, where it clearly violates the integrity of the game, but isn't a banned for life type of deal.
If you ask the Los Angeles Dodgers who lost two world series games in Houston by small enough margins that cheating probably mattered, it was a pretty big deal.

Is it as big as throwing the world series so bookies can make more money? The entire black sox team banned for life.

Is this as bad as betting on baseball? a la Pete Rose (who never bet against his own team) banned for life.

Is it as bad as taking steroids? Alex Rodriguez suspended for 211 games.

I don't know what the appropriate punishment should be but you have to start with vacating their championship.

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This scandal did get me to learn about an incident from the 1950's Yankees, where one of their pitchers would whistle if he caught a sign. The opposing pitcher was so pissed, he gave Mickey Mantle some chin music. When Yogi got up next he yelled "He may be whistling, but I ain't listening!"
Everybody loves Yogi Berra.
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Old 11-14-2019, 07:52 AM
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I don't have a cite for you, but I watched about 60% of the Nats' games both this summer and in 2018. The difference in the dugout atmosphere was blatantly obvious.
Absolutely but a lot of that was not because of the additions to the Roster, like Parra rather than the removal of Harper form the roster. Harper was not a horrible teammate but he was acting awfully important for one of the youngest guys on the team. It sucks when you are a 30+ year old veteran and the young kid still in arbitration acts like it's his team, and what's worse, so do the managers and the fans.

Maybe things will be different in Philadelphia. I suspect with that huge contract, he will have trouble living up to expectations and there will be disappointment mixed in with the kudos.

Ultimately he is not a good fit with the Nationals.

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They should have the '17 championship revoked and forfeit Verlander and Greinke to the Nats.
If the owners knew (or with reasonable due diligence, should have known), then force the owners to sell the team at auction. Banning players and managers still makes cheating a risk/reward proposition where the risk is large but manageable. Fines are a very manageable risk reward situation. Forcing owners to sell their team at auction is like the death penalty, it will stop the cheating overnight.
  #77  
Old 11-14-2019, 08:04 AM
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The team on the field is not good, but the organization is in good shape; there is very little dead money left on the books and very talented young hitters in the lineup. Compare this with teams with dead money or just without a lot of prospects; the Jays will produce some very good players, and have the dough to fill in the gaps.
They have way more gaps than dough right now unless some significant portion of those young players, (particularly the pitchers) mature pretty quickly. I suspect that they will wait a year before going all in unless they can pick someone up cheap.

Quote:
If they'll spend it. Rogers is weirdly cheap. The team is immensely rich and in a huge market that is extremely win-sensitive. They could spend like crazy if they wanted to and go get Gerrit Cole and Stephen Strasburg and a few hitters, too.
Rogers?
  #78  
Old 11-14-2019, 08:22 AM
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Rogers?
Rogers Communications is the owner of the Blue Jays; they are one of the only teams left in MLB owned by a corporation, not principally an individual. They're the largest tech conglomerate in Canada, making literal billions a year. They not only own the team, but own the cable sports empire their games are on. Rogers is, in all likelihood, the richest "owner" in MLB.

The Blue Jays, because of the way this stuff is divvied up, have a broadcast monopoly on the entirety of Canada, a media market roughly equivalent to the entire state of California, and which with the exception of a few little pockets is very, very Blue Jays-supporter-heavy. Imagine if the Dodgers were owned by a company that not only owned their own cable and wireless empire, but was given exclusive broadcast rights to all of California, and the Angels, Padres, Giants and A's didn't exist. That's a gold mine.

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If you ask the Los Angeles Dodgers who lost two world series games in Houston by small enough margins that cheating probably mattered, it was a pretty big deal.

Is it as big as throwing the world series so bookies can make more money? The entire black sox team banned for life.

Is this as bad as betting on baseball? a la Pete Rose (who never bet against his own team) banned for life.
Yeah, I wouldn't die on the hill of Pete Rose not betting against his own team. Everything else he's ever claimed was a lie. That's the only one left unanswered. If Pete Rose told me his name was "Pete Rose" I'd start doing some research.

Anyway, no, cheating by stealing signs with electronic devices is not as bad as betting on baseball or throwing games for money. But it's bad, and if this is proven, heads should roll.
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:43 AM
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The San Francisco Giants have hired Gabe Kapler to be their new manager.

To say this decision is inexplicable would be an understatement of the highest order. It's utterly mystifying. It's not just that Kapler did a mediocre job in Philadelphia, or that by all accounts the clubhouse was a toxic mess by the end of 2019; Kapler is literally right now in the midst of a story unfolding about how he didn't report sexual misconduct while working for the Dodgers.

Of all the managerial candidates, that's the guy the Giants picked. What the hell?
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:50 AM
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So the 2017 world series MVP was some guy banging on a trash can?
A signal like that lacks a bit in subtlety. Even the dumbest opponent should catch on quickly.

Not to rehash the Pete Rose stuff, but betting on your own team presents plenty of opportunities for abuse (for example if you overuse a top reliever because you have a lot of dough riding on a particular game).
  #81  
Old 11-14-2019, 10:00 AM
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Revoke the championship and forfeit Verlander to the team they cheated out of the Series. Send Greinke to the Padres.
Forced trades sound horribly complex.

Do the Astros keep paying for Verlander but he plays for the Dodgers?

Maybe that would work. It would serve to reduce their luxury cap and take away a good contract.

But I would let the Dodgers choose who to take. Verlander and Greinke only have 2 years left on their contracts. They might want Altuve or Bregman.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:03 AM
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"Cheating by stealing signs with electronic devices" is worse than stealing signs by the runner at 2nd making gestures to the hitter? I guess as an Astros fan I am probably biassed, but to me, stealing signs is stealing signs and I suspect every team does it. Am I wrong? Are some teams so honest that they won't steal a sign even if they can? Does using "devices" make it a crime but not using "devices" is not a crime? Seriously, I wonder what you all think. (I guess you can tell what I think.)
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:19 AM
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"Cheating by stealing signs with electronic devices" is worse than stealing signs by the runner at 2nd making gestures to the hitter? I guess as an Astros fan I am probably biassed, but to me, stealing signs is stealing signs and I suspect every team does it. Am I wrong?
Yes. You are both wrong and biased.

First off, the game is played by the players, not cameras in the center field stands. Second, the interplay between the pitcher and batter is the single most important interaction in the game. The fact that the batter doesn't know what is being pitched, is the single most important aspect of that interaction.

Frankly, if electronic devices were allowed, I'd have the catcher and pitcher fitted with earpieces so the "pitching coordinator" could tell both of them silently what pitch should come next.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:28 AM
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"Cheating by stealing signs with electronic devices" is worse than stealing signs by the runner at 2nd making gestures to the hitter? I guess as an Astros fan I am probably biassed, but to me, stealing signs is stealing signs and I suspect every team does it. Am I wrong? Are some teams so honest that they won't steal a sign even if they can? Does using "devices" make it a crime but not using "devices" is not a crime? Seriously, I wonder what you all think. (I guess you can tell what I think.)
Absolutely itís worse. Itís equivalent to a player becoming a better slugger by working out and bulking up (without PEDs) to increase body strength, or wearing some contraption under his uniform with springs and braces to increase his swing power. The former is an athlete improving himself physically (which is what athletes are supposed to do), the latter is using a technological shortcut.

Iím not a big baseball guy but I know football so thatís where I can draw my references (so forgive me). But there are times when a defense has been able to figure out ďtellsĒ from QBs and to use them to anticipate and beat plays. Reportedly the Seahawks did it in Super Bowl 48 and shut down Payton Manningís record-breaking offense. Reportedly the Seahawks did it again last Monday against Jimmy Garoppolo to beat the 49ers and end their perfect record.

Yet when the Patriots did something similar by secretly recording their opponents in practice (aka ďSpygateĒ) it was a major scandal. In the NFL there is nothing wrong with naturally figuring out your opponentís schemes through observation and countering them, thatís considered smart play. Doing so via technology on the other hand is cheating.

I donít know if learning signs through normal observation and relaying them is cheating (I assume it is) but at least youíre doing it using your own ability, which itself should make it less of a scandal.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:45 AM
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Reddit megathread with a bunch of examples:

https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/co...egathread_for/

The really messed up thing is the installation of the centerfield camera and the relay to the dugout. If true, the whole organization was involved in this shitty practice.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:49 AM
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"Cheating by stealing signs with electronic devices" is worse than stealing signs by the runner at 2nd making gestures to the hitter? ...
Yes, it's worse, because only the home team can get away with it. Thus the unfair advantage.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:47 PM
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Yes, it's worse, because only the home team can get away with it. Thus the unfair advantage.
Thatís a good point I hadnít even considered.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:53 PM
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"Cheating by stealing signs with electronic devices" is worse than stealing signs by the runner at 2nd making gestures to the hitter?
Yes, because the former is against the rules, and the latter is not.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:32 PM
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Not to rehash the Pete Rose stuff, but betting on your own team presents plenty of opportunities for abuse (for example if you overuse a top reliever because you have a lot of dough riding on a particular game).
I'm not trying to defend gambling but stealing pitches using cameras and then signaling the batter doesn't seem a lot better than gambling on baseball games.
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:00 PM
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Cheating in advancement of winning is bad, but it is, after all, trying to win.

Gambling on baseball games calls into question whether or not the participants are even trying to win, and therefore bring the entire enterprise into disrepute. That can destroy MLB.

In business terms, gambling is a conflict of interest. The standard penalty for acting in an undeclared conflict of interest in ANY business I have ever been in is you're fired and never welcome back.
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:31 PM
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So the Mets get a new manager and he is almost immediately involved in a scandal. Typical. There is no way they could have known but it's typical Mets' luck. No way Beltran did not know about this. Will he have to resign? If they can prove he was involved in devising the system, I think definitely. But what if he was just taking advantage when he was at bat? How many ABs did he have in the series?
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:46 PM
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Cheating in advancement of winning is bad, but it is, after all, trying to win.

Gambling on baseball games calls into question whether or not the participants are even trying to win, and therefore bring the entire enterprise into disrepute. That can destroy MLB.

In business terms, gambling is a conflict of interest. The standard penalty for acting in an undeclared conflict of interest in ANY business I have ever been in is you're fired and never welcome back.
When people get the idea that the results have been predetermined and basically scripted to guarantee an outcome, like pro wrestling, they wonít watch.

Unless it really gets to be like pro wrestling.

Mike Trout steps up to the plate and pulls out a microphone, and points at the pitcherís mound:

ďListen up, Verlander! You think youíre the baddest pitcher in the league? I got news for you, Iíll eat your fastballs for breakfast! Itís Home Run City in Anaheim, Justin-boy! THE TROUT HAS NO DOUBT!!!Ē *flex*
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:57 PM
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So will there now be a narrative (accurate or not) that the underdog Nationals outsmarted the diabolical, cheating Astros? As a Nats fan, I could live with that.
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Old 11-15-2019, 06:37 AM
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So will there now be a narrative (accurate or not) that the underdog Nationals outsmarted the diabolical, cheating Astros? As a Nats fan, I could live with that.
I'm guessing that the Nationals did what the Yankees tried in the ALCS: multiple sign sequences, shuffled during an inning, even with nobody on base. The rumors have been around for a long time.
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Old 11-15-2019, 07:14 AM
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I'm guessing that the Nationals did what the Yankees tried in the ALCS: multiple sign sequences, shuffled during an inning, even with nobody on base. The rumors have been around for a long time.
WaPo article on the topic.
  #96  
Old 11-15-2019, 08:50 AM
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There is some circumstantial evidence that something was up with the Astros. In 2016, their hitters struck out 23.4 percent of the time, the fourth-highest rate in the game. In 2017, the year The Athletic report said the camera was installed, that rate dropped to 17.3 percent, the lowest in baseball. At home in 2017, the Astros struck out 16.7 percent of the time, as opposed to 17.9 percent on the road.
This can't be explained by stealing signs because of the road rate, but how did they manage that? The roster didn't turn over that much. Weird.
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Old 11-15-2019, 10:33 AM
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This can't be explained by stealing signs because of the road rate, but how did they manage that? The roster didn't turn over that much. Weird.
Neither did the hitting coach, Dave Hudgens. He was there from 2015-2018. My guess is either their K rate differences fall within the expected year to year distribution for a team---the dumb luck approach---or that they implemented a more analytic-based approach to hitting. Or they were cheating better OTR, using something like a fan in the stands with binos and a signalling device.
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Old 11-15-2019, 10:42 AM
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When people get the idea that the results have been predetermined and basically scripted to guarantee an outcome, like pro wrestling, they wonít watch.

Unless it really gets to be like pro wrestling.

Mike Trout steps up to the plate and pulls out a microphone, and points at the pitcherís mound:

ďListen up, Verlander! You think youíre the baddest pitcher in the league? I got news for you, Iíll eat your fastballs for breakfast! Itís Home Run City in Anaheim, Justin-boy! THE TROUT HAS NO DOUBT!!!Ē *flex*
I suggested a form of Sumo Baseball but noone seemed interested:

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&postcount=623

"Allow batters to charge the mound on any called inside pitch, but the fight must take place on the dirt part of the mound only. If either player comes off the mound, that player is ejected from the game. Any players other than the batter and the pitcher that steps on the dirt part of the mound gets ejected (but the catcher (or any other player) can try to tackle the batter before he gets to the mound at which point the batter has to re-enter the batter's box and may not charge the mound again that game unless he gets hit by the ball)."
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:49 AM
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If Sumo Baseball is a thing then Dae-Ho Lee could make a return to the MLB. He’s built for that kind of play; his belly even has its own Twitter account:
https://mobile.twitter.com/daeholeesbelly
  #100  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:05 PM
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Cheating in advancement of winning is bad, but it is, after all, trying to win.

Gambling on baseball games calls into question whether or not the participants are even trying to win, and therefore bring the entire enterprise into disrepute. That can destroy MLB.

In business terms, gambling is a conflict of interest. The standard penalty for acting in an undeclared conflict of interest in ANY business I have ever been in is you're fired and never welcome back.
But the betting involving the Reds was always in favor of the reds winning.

The fact that he didn't bet on them in 4 games and the size of the bet changed from game to game presents some sort of conflict but doesn't it reduce the appearance of conflict (or actual conflict) given the direction of the betting?

I don't think he should be banned from the hall of fame.
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