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Old 02-04-2020, 07:46 AM
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I do NOT understand my recent Warning.


I was Warned in Politics & Elections for the following post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/...warren-in-iowa

... F**k off, Bernie Brats! At this point, if Bernie gets Trump re-elected I'm ready to say "Serves you right." Maybe the cockroaches will do a better job of ruling the planet when they rise up 50 million years from now.
I thought that the rule against insults applied to insulting Dopers. No Doper is a "Bernie Brat" ó my insult was directed at the off-site opinionater I quoted.

True, some Dopers support Bernie, but that doesn't make them "Brats." (I personally admire Bernie, but don't want him to be the nominee.) Some Dopers support Trump, McConnell or Limbaugh, but it seems to be OK to call those non-Dopers "assholes." I searched for occurrences of "asshole" in Politics or Great Debates, and get these examples just from the last few days: (The first quote even uses the f**k word I used. I've deleted the names from these quotes -- I'm not trying to get another Doper in trouble also.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by -- View Post
... I'm well past my limit of the 24hour news cycle of "Look at what that fucking asshole Trump did now!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by -- View Post
But itís lighting money on fire. Mitch McConnell is an asshole and everyone in KY will tell you that. Theyíll also vote for him because heís their asshole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -- View Post
But an asshole can grow up to hold high elected and corporate office.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -- View Post
... [Limbaugh] made his living being an asshole
... a charlatan like Donald Trump ...
Am I reprimanded because "F**k off" is harsher than "asshole"? Do I need to repeat the Search to document the unWarned usage of other pejoratives?

Was my Warning correct or not? I think Not.
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Old 02-04-2020, 07:53 AM
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The exact wording of the warning was:

Quote:
Warning. Septimus, you need to control yourself.
Appears to me that the warning was not because of the use of specific words, but rather just for your agitated tone. I'm guessing the applicable rule here is probably just "don't be a jerk."
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Old 02-04-2020, 08:09 AM
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If you've ever played sports, you know that officiating is something you just have to deal with because, quite frankly, it is necessary. And, as in a sporting event, you adjust to the officiating, they don't adjust to you. My advice is, "Read and heed."
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Old 02-04-2020, 08:16 AM
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Not just the posters, but perhaps the mods are getting a bit punchy lately also with all that's going on in the world.
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Old 02-04-2020, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Jasmine View Post
If you've ever played sports, you know that officiating is something you just have to deal with because, quite frankly, it is necessary. And, as in a sporting event, you adjust to the officiating, they don't adjust to you. My advice is, "Read and heed."
Although, if this were a sporting event, the SDMB is the epitome of a situation of "Who's the bastard, who's the bastard, who's the bastard in the black?"
  #6  
Old 02-04-2020, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
I was Warned in Politics & Elections for the following post:


I thought that the rule against insults applied to insulting Dopers. No Doper is a "Bernie Brat" ó my insult was directed at the off-site opinionater I quoted.
I'm not hugely concerned by this either way, but if you're directing an insult at a single person, maybe don't use a plural noun. When you do so, it kinda sounds like you're directing your insult at multiple people, and maybe those include Sanders supporters in the thread you're posting in.
  #7  
Old 02-04-2020, 09:51 AM
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I don't think it is clear from your wording you mean just off-board people. Your use of plural definitely indicates you mean more than just the author of that article. It could easily be interpreted that you are referring to all Bernie supporters, including the people you are addressing in the thread.
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:01 AM
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I looked at your post as being a sneaky way of insulting Bernie supporters.
  #9  
Old 02-04-2020, 10:16 AM
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That really is how it read to me, Septimus. Itís always best practices to not go over the outside the Pit. Itís also a good idea not to brand entire groups.

Weíve had posters in the past who would use the rhetorical tactic of saying something inflammatory about a group. Some things really hateful. Then they would act surprised when their debate opponents were a part of that group. Itís really not something we can allow to happen.
  #10  
Old 02-04-2020, 10:39 AM
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Yeah, but...

I have to agree that Trump supporters get insulted as a group and as individuals here. Rightly, IMO, but that means that other political groups should get the same freedom to disparage their opponents' political choices. Unlike many of the other group insults, political insults are directed at those who freely chose their positions as adults. Nor are political insults damaging in the way that racist, sexist, or fat-shaming insults are. If you applied this standard fairly, it would clean out Politics and Elections.

septimus may have a history that I'm not aware of so this could be part of a pattern. Unless that's true, I can't see any way this post deserves a warning. Make it a note, at best. And then figure out some standard to give the rest of us an understanding of how and when we can resume the insults that have been a huge part of every political campaign here since 2000. I'm betting you can't do it, which is another huge reason to rescind this warning.
  #11  
Old 02-04-2020, 10:41 AM
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Huh... you can't insult groups? Which groups can't you insult?
  #12  
Old 02-04-2020, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Terrific View Post
I looked at your post as being a sneaky way of insulting Bernie supporters.
And not even that sneaky to be honest. LOL
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  #13  
Old 02-04-2020, 11:28 AM
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Ugh. It was a huge mistake to give Politics the same butthole-gazing culture as Great Debates. If that's worth a warning, let's move all political threads to the Pit.
  #14  
Old 02-04-2020, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What the .... ?!?! View Post
Huh... you can't insult groups? Which groups can't you insult?
You are missing the point.

Let's say for example that part of a debate involves the American Meadow Party and their candidate Bill the Cat. Technically, there's no rule against insulting the American Meadow Party.

But, here is where you run into trouble. Let's say you know there are a bunch of Bill the Cat supporters in a particular thread. You want to piss them off, so you make a broad insult against the American Meadow Party. After all, you're technically just insulting an off-board group, right? Wrong. You've just intentionally insulted a bunch of Bill the Cat supporters among the SDMB users who were posting in that thread. Hence the problem.

Or to make it more clear:

Opus says "I support Bill the Cat"
Then you say "Everyone who supports the American Meadow Party is an idiot".

While that's technically insulting an off-board group, in reality it's clearly an insult to Opus, which will get you a warning.

There may be a few cases where it wasn't done intentionally, but this sort of behavior has been enough of a problem over the years that claiming you were really only insulting the off-board supporters of Bill the Cat probably won't get you out of the warning.
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Old 02-04-2020, 12:19 PM
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And, if can be delicate, posters with a significant history of getting in trouble for insulting people about politics or taking political potshots donít get a lot of wiggle room.
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Old 02-04-2020, 12:39 PM
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Your post was insulting everyone who supports Bernie. Adding “brats” does not at all change the substance of your rant. You’re not attacking bratty behavior, you are clearly, blatantly, unambiguously insulting each and every person who supports Bernie’s nomination. Because the result that incenses you is Trump being re-elected because Bernie is too weak a candidate to defeat him.

Your protests about what you really meant just ring false. You said what you said and you weren’t unclear at all.
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Old 02-04-2020, 01:31 PM
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I don't understand why broad-based insults would have any place in a debate forum anyway. What argument is it putting forward? What cite can you bring? How does it advance a discussion?

If you want to rant against Bernie Brats or Trump, uh, Bumps(?) or Buttigieg, uh, I got nothin', then do it in the Pit.

GD and P&E are for discussions and debates and saying that all Whig Pigs are stupid adds nothing to a discussion or a debate.

Heck, I even asked to get rid of Obummer, Shrub, Tramp, etc., in those forums, but was shot down.
  #18  
Old 02-04-2020, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
I don't think it is clear from your wording you mean just off-board people. Your use of plural definitely indicates you mean more than just the author of that article. It could easily be interpreted that you are referring to all Bernie supporters, including the people you are addressing in the thread.
FWIW, that was certainly not my conscious intent. One Doper comes to mind as a staunch Bernie supporter, and he happens to be someone I respect, feel friendly toward, and appreciate his posts.

I had resolved to count to ten, and re-read my posts for excessive anger before clicking Submit. In future I hope to try harder to follow through with this intent.

Last edited by septimus; 02-04-2020 at 01:57 PM.
  #19  
Old 02-04-2020, 03:00 PM
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Question: should we report all insults aimed directly at Trump supporters in the future?
  #20  
Old 02-04-2020, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
Question: should we report all insults aimed directly at Trump supporters in the future?
If there's a thread with Trump supporters in it, and someone writes, "Fuck off, Trump cultists!" I'd think that'd be worth reporting.

In Politics, there's a particular poster that can't resist getting in a barb at Sanders and his supporters every chance he gets. It's pretty nonstop. But that's different from a straight-up "fuck off" to supporters.
  #21  
Old 02-04-2020, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post

I had resolved to count to ten, and re-read my posts for excessive anger before clicking Submit. In future I hope to try harder to follow through with this intent.
We all try and we all fail sometimes. Which is probably why we'll always need a Mod Loop.
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Old 02-04-2020, 04:10 PM
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I read that as attacking people in the thread, too. I think it's not just the high level of ire, but also the use of second person. The post is directed towards "you," with "you" being "Bernie Brats." And thus it comes off as directed toward the reader. Throw in that he is directly arguing with Bernie supporters in that thread, and it does come off as if he's attacking them.

In other words, I'm arguing that "Fuck Trump" and "Fuck you, Trump" come off differently Both can be inappropriate and seem like personal attacks, but the latter has a stronger lean in that direction.
  #23  
Old 02-04-2020, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engineer_comp_geek View Post
Let's say for example that part of a debate involves the American Meadow Party
Did anyone else read that as the Audrey Meadows Party?
  #24  
Old 02-04-2020, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
If there's a thread with Trump supporters in it, and someone writes, "Fuck off, Trump cultists!" I'd think that'd be worth reporting.
Exactly. I see no difference between that and Engineer Comp Geek's Bill and Meadow Party example.

Which is one of the reasons why some folks say the Board p's mods are biased. Should be the same standard, whether it's slags against Bernie Bros or Trumpeters.

Last edited by Northern Piper; 02-04-2020 at 06:57 PM.
  #25  
Old 02-04-2020, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
Exactly. I see no difference between that and Engineer Comp Geek's Bill and Meadow Party example.

Which is one of the reasons why some folks say the Board p's mods are biased. Should be the same standard, whether it's slags against Bernie Bros or Trumpeters.
You didn't bother quoting in full. The next sentence:

"In Politics, there's a particular poster that can't resist getting in a barb at Sanders and his supporters every chance he gets. It's pretty nonstop. But that's different from a straight-up "fuck off" to supporters."

Am I correct in inferring that your claim is regarding Bernie haters not getting the break that Trump haters get? If so, it would help your case to link to examples.
  #26  
Old 02-05-2020, 06:36 AM
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^^Trump haters get a break?

Where? And when did this happen?
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