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Old 02-18-2020, 03:53 PM
Marvin the Martian is offline
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Allergen-free bread


Mrs. Martian is embarking on a six food elimination diet: no wheat, dairy, eggs, soy, tree nuts, and fish/shellfish for the next six weeks. We did find a gluten free bread that is free all the potential allergens, but haven't tried it yet. I had earlier tried Udi's and was not impressed (plus Udi's contains eggs).

Now gluten is not the issue - she can have any other gluten-containing grain as long as it is not wheat. I'm thinking that there might be other flours that might contain enough gluten to rise with yeast. I know barley has gluten, but I've read that there is not enough gluten in barley flour for bread to rise properly.

Since it's unlikely that I can find a store-bought bread that meets the allergy requirements without it being gluten free I'm looking for recipes. Has anyone baked bread with alternative (but still gluten-containing) flours?
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Old 02-18-2020, 03:56 PM
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You'll need to look for a gluten free, vegan bread. At a normal store, it's probably going to be in the freezer.
You might have better luck at a place like Whole Foods or a health food store or a vegan bakery. If your city has a hippie/hipster neighborhood, check out the little shops there.
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Old 02-18-2020, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Joey P View Post
You'll need to look for a gluten free, vegan bread. At a normal store, it's probably going to be in the freezer.
You might have better luck at a place like Whole Foods or a health food store or a vegan bakery. If your city has a hippie/hipster neighborhood, check out the little shops there.
I do not need gluten free, but wheat free. They're not the same thing. I found the type of bread you describe in my local grocery, but I am looking for a recipe that uses yeast and an alternate gluten-containing flour that might end up with a better texture than the gluten-free breads.
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Old 02-18-2020, 04:20 PM
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I think your best shot would be a vegan rye bread. It's going to be a really dense bread, as no grain contains as much gluten as wheat. You can purchase gluten and add it to bread dough, but I'm not aware of any source for that sort of gluten that doesn't use wheat as a source.

Here is a link to an example. Just so you know - the "espresso powder" and caraway are totally optional if your wife doesn't care for either. Disclaimer: I have not tried this recipe myself.

Last edited by Broomstick; 02-18-2020 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 02-18-2020, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
I do not need gluten free, but wheat free. They're not the same thing.
I understand that. I should have clarified that I said gluten free vegan bread because I thought it would be more commercially available, or at least easier to find, than wheat free vegan bread (with gluten).
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Old 02-18-2020, 05:23 PM
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Wow. I thought gluten specifically came from wheat, so non-wheat gluten is a non sequitur.

I was wrong! Quothe the googles:

"Gluten is the protein found in wheat, rye, barley, and triticale, a grain grown specifically to have wheatlike qualities."

So O.P. would rye bread be alright?
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Old 02-18-2020, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by purplehorseshoe View Post
So O.P. would rye bread be alright?
Virtually all commercially sold rye bread in the US contains a significant proportion of wheat bread. You have to read the labels VERY carefully. Most of what people think of as "rye bread" is 50% or more wheat.
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:19 PM
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Wow. I thought gluten specifically came from wheat, so non-wheat gluten is a non sequitur.

I was wrong! Quothe the googles:

"Gluten is the protein found in wheat, rye, barley, and triticale, a grain grown specifically to have wheatlike qualities."

So O.P. would rye bread be alright?
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by purplehorseshoe View Post
Wow. I thought gluten specifically came from wheat, so non-wheat gluten is a non sequitur.

I was wrong! Quothe the googles:

"Gluten is the protein found in wheat, rye, barley, and triticale, a grain grown specifically to have wheatlike qualities."

So O.P. would rye bread be alright?
Note that triticale is a wheat-rye cross.
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Old 02-18-2020, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
Has anyone baked bread with alternative (but still gluten-containing) flours?
Are you specifically looking for non-wheat flour that HAS gluten?
I've had bread made with rice, almond, and coconut flours but non of them contain gluten.
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:54 PM
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While I don't have to worry about gluten or food allergies, I do like to try new things, and if you're going to avoid gluten, you're really going to have to bypass wheat unless you want to do your own baking. The Chebe brand has some mixes that can be used to make delicious wheat rolls; they use tapioca and rice flour.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:04 PM
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Are you sure you wouldn't rather have a bowl of rice?
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Old 02-19-2020, 06:19 AM
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The Chebe brand has some mixes that can be used to make delicious wheat rolls; they use tapioca and rice flour.
Then they're not wheat rolls, they're tapioca-and-rice rolls.
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Old 02-19-2020, 09:56 AM
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Are you specifically looking for non-wheat flour that HAS gluten?
I've had bread made with rice, almond, and coconut flours but non of them contain gluten.
Yes. I am looking for recipes like the one Broomstick linked to for the 100% rye bread - gluten/yeast based, but without wheat. Sounds like rye or barley are the most likely alternatives.

Complicating factor is no dairy, eggs, or tree nuts either (rules out almond flour).
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
While I don't have to worry about gluten or food allergies, I do like to try new things, and if you're going to avoid gluten, you're really going to have to bypass wheat unless you want to do your own baking. The Chebe brand has some mixes that can be used to make delicious wheat rolls; they use tapioca and rice flour.
You have it backwards - I am trying to avoid wheat but not avoid gluten.

Thanks for the Chebe suggestion, but their mixes all call for eggs in the instructions.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:59 AM
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Ask whether the wheat prohibition includes spelt and kamut.

Depending on the purpose of the exclusion, it might or might not.
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:30 AM
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Ask whether the wheat prohibition includes spelt and kamut.

Depending on the purpose of the exclusion, it might or might not.
Cannot have spelt or kamut.
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:42 AM
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Allergen-elimination is almost always harder than non-allergics realize.

Bread without wheat is particularly hard because gluten is by and large what gives bread its texture and wheat is the major source of gluten.

Would the OP's wife be able to substitute crackers for bread at least part of the time? Because I suspect you'll have better luck finding wheat-free crackers of various sorts than wheat-free bread that tastes decent and has a mouthfeel that is expected.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:39 PM
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Honestly, it's a whole lot easier just to avoid eating bread, period, for the short time of the diet, than to go to these lengths to find a substitute.

Last edited by needscoffee; 02-19-2020 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:40 PM
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Honestly, it's a whole lot easier just to avoid eating bread, period, for the short time of the diet, than to go to these lengths to find a substitute.
The wheat elimination phase of the diet will be at least 16 weeks (wheat is the last allergen to be reintroduced). 6 weeks eliminate everything, then add back allergens at 2-4 week intervals with endoscopy after each stage.

Plus there is a non-zero possibility that wheat is the culprit and eliminating wheat will be a permanent thing.
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Old 02-19-2020, 03:08 PM
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Honestly, it's a whole lot easier just to avoid eating bread, period, for the short time of the diet, than to go to these lengths to find a substitute.
The wheat elimination phase of the diet will be at least 16 weeks (wheat is the last allergen to be reintroduced). 6 weeks eliminate everything, then add back allergens at 2-4 week intervals with endoscopy after each stage.

Plus there is a non-zero possibility that wheat is the culprit and eliminating wheat will be a permanent thing.
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Old 02-19-2020, 03:23 PM
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16 weeks sounds like a long time, but as there's no substitute that's going to taste much like bread anyway except for straight rye, she might want to consider going without. I dropped all breads from my diet for a lot longer than that.

I have had no-wheat rye loaves from farmers markets. Extremely dense, made of rye and whole seeds. Delicious, but not suitable for sandwiches as it is so flat and dense. I don't believe it had added wheat gluten.
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Old 02-19-2020, 03:26 PM
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Whether you're still allowed gluten or not, a wheat, egg, dairy-free diet pretty much means any bread you are allowed to eat will be disappointing. I only need to avoid wheat and I’ve found it’s just easier to swear off bread completely rather than learn to like the significantly inferior alternatives. The closest thing to bread I eat now is a corn tortilla.
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Old 02-19-2020, 03:34 PM
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Note that triticale is a wheat-rye cross.
Does everybody know about this wheat but me?
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Old 02-19-2020, 07:55 PM
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Does everybody know about this wheat but me?
I learned of it back in the 1960's at the same time I learned about quadrotriticale.
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Old 02-19-2020, 08:11 PM
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Honestly, it's a whole lot easier just to avoid eating bread, period, for the short time of the diet, than to go to these lengths to find a substitute.
I think this is probably the best answer. I've been recently diagnosed with celiac dermatitis and now I must avoid all gluten. For a while I tried things like gluten-free breads and pastas but found them very unpalatable. So I've just resigned myself to not eating those things anymore.

Most non-wheat products are going to be targeting gluten-free people, so it's going to be very difficult to find stuff like no-wheat-but-all-rye breads and the like. There just isn't enough market for it, given that the gluten-free market as a whole is pretty tiny by itself.

So my recommendation is: just forget about breads, pasta, and baked goods and focus on rice, corn, and potatoes if you want starches.
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:08 PM
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Thanks all. I was hoping for some magical barley/rye recipe that would produce a decent bread for sandwiches, but I guess it is not to be.

Good news is most non-wheat beers appear to be OK...
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