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Old 06-16-2019, 10:08 PM
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Trump will leave DC for good after the election but before the inaugural


It may sound like a crazy prediction, but when it comes true and I can point to this post, I will win the Internet.

We have become accustomed to a nonstop shitshow in the White House, but that will go to eleven if and when he loses the election. It might be so nuclear that his Cabinet ousts him with Pence's blessing. Quick impeachment and removal is also a possibility, but anything at the level to get Congress in agreement (as is also necessary with the 25th Amendment) would probably be enough of a nightmare the Cabinet members will prefer to escape it as well, perhaps with assurances they could keep their grifting positions until Jan. 20.

Or Trump may resign in a huff, spouting his unhinged conspiracy accusations on a neverending red state tour (with breaks at Mar-a-Lago). I don't believe he will return to New York, although he's such an idiot who knows. I think his base animal instinct for self-preservation will make him leery of entering any legal jurisdiction not predisposed to be very favorable to him. A federal government headed by the Democrat who beat Trump in the election might be leery of sending federal agents into a red state to get Trump. I mean, look how long it took the feds to get up the nerve to go after that Bundy family of ranchers. This would be on a whole other level to say the least. So Trump might be able to stay out of the hoosgow by traveling on gilded, TRUMP branded tour buses through contiguous red country (sorry, Alaska!)

Even if he does not officially resign, I think he will leave DC and not even bother to pretend to do his job any more. I would be surprised if he ever came back to the city at any point after the holidays. But even if he is in the White House on the morning of January 20, he will not go to the inaugural. Either he'll make a show of boycotting it because he claims the election was rigged by "illegals", perhaps even resisting leaving (the U.S. Marshals will take care of that contingency at the stroke of noon, of that I am confident), or he will just tweet something nasty about the President-Elect and go to the rally he scheduled at noon and demanded FOX News cover instead of the inaugural of "Sleepy Joe" or whichever other "loser" is being sworn in by the Chief Justice.
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Old 06-16-2019, 10:33 PM
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Let's not count our chickens before they've hatched. He hasn't lost 2020 yet.
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Old 06-16-2019, 10:43 PM
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I am one of very few people who believes that he might commit suicide rather than give up the office, whether by impeachment or losing the election.
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Old 06-16-2019, 10:52 PM
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I am one of very few people who believes that he might commit suicide rather than give up the office, whether by impeachment or losing the election.
I don't think he particularly likes being president, so the actual giving up of the office wouldn't bother him that much. But the having to give it up would make him furious.

To which his natural response wouldn't be to off himself, but to try to hurt his enemies as much as possible while making himself look good to his supporters.
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Old 06-16-2019, 10:58 PM
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I am one of very few people who believes that he might commit suicide rather than give up the office, whether by impeachment or losing the election.
What leads you to believe that he is, or even would be, suicidal?

Last edited by D'Anconia; 06-16-2019 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:00 PM
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I don't think he particularly likes being president, so the actual giving up of the office wouldn't bother him that much. But the having to give it up would make him furious.

To which his natural response wouldn't be to off himself, but to try to hurt his enemies as much as possible while making himself look good to his supporters.
And lining his pockets as much as possible. Taking everything that's not nailed down.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:03 PM
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And lining his pockets as much as possible. Taking everything that's not nailed down.
Yes, thanks. I forgot that part.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:21 PM
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For sure! Lots of ornate, gilded stuff lying around.

For those who don't want to count our chickens before they hatch: sure, okay, fine. But can't you go with any hypothetical for if he is defeated? Isn't that what most of any Democratic primary candidate's speeches are about?
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:31 PM
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What leads you to believe that he is, or even would be, suicidal?
Look at historical analogues, such as Alan García, Jim Jones and Adolf Hitler.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:45 PM
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If he loses, it won't be the end for him. He's not going to kill himself. He'll be able to do exactly what he wants to be doing: Riling up rubes and making money off their anger. That's all he wanted from the 2016 race too.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:59 PM
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Good point. But do you agree that he might stay out of blue states as he goes around throwing those rhetorical bombs? "It's very sad that I can't risk going back to New York, where Hightax Andrew Cuomo* is just itching to lock me up on totally phony charges. But I love the poorly educated people out here in beautiful flyover country!"

*I didn't make this up. Per Wiki, this is actually Trump's nickname for him.
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Old 06-17-2019, 12:05 AM
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Look at historical analogues, such as Alan García, Jim Jones and Adolf Hitler.
Hitler wanted to rule; Trump barely gets to wanting to be boss.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:09 PM
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Look at historical analogues, such as Alan García, Jim Jones and Adolf Hitler.
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No, Donald you go first to make sure it works; I go afterwards.

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Old 06-18-2019, 06:15 PM
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Trump would never commit suicide. He's way too in love with himself for that. And a consummate coward.

If he loses the election, he will say that it was part of the plan, he has accomplished everything and more, and then go out on a Make Trump Great Again tour with the same idiots that followed him before. Same bullshit. That's what he wants to do anyway. In the mean time, a lot of people with the initials D.A. will want to have a word with him.

The morons that support him will be the same morons. They will still support him, and will never learn, they voted for him in the first place. It's just too much of a leap for these people to actually become aware of what the fuck is going on.
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:29 PM
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I think this period of his presidency will be the most dangerous. He will have literally nothing else to lose. I expect as snfaulkner indicated he will do whatever he can to enrich himself on the way out, but I also expect that he will be doing whatever he can to overturn the election. Daily tweets about how the system was rigged against him. Non-stop law suits every step of the way, calls for resistance among his supporters etc.

He won't go quietly into the night.
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:45 PM
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I think this period of his presidency will be the most dangerous. He will have literally nothing else to lose. I expect as snfaulkner indicated he will do whatever he can to enrich himself on the way out, but I also expect that he will be doing whatever he can to overturn the election. Daily tweets about how the system was rigged against him. Non-stop law suits every step of the way, calls for resistance among his supporters etc.

He won't go quietly into the night.
Oh yeah. And Mitch McConnell will have his back. And don't forget, it's the states that are in charge of counting and certifying their votes. Expect that historically red states that break blue will be flagged for 'irregularities'.

I expect we'll be litigating the 2020 election early into the summer of 2021.
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:55 PM
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Oh yeah. And Mitch McConnell will have his back. And don't forget, it's the states that are in charge of counting and certifying their votes. Expect that historically red states that break blue will be flagged for 'irregularities'.

I expect we'll be litigating the 2020 election early into the summer of 2021.
Yes, election results that break blue will be declared illegitimate.

Though it will be McConnell's instinct to back Trump's play to remain, much will depend on the reaction of the major donors. If Trump has managed, through his ideas on tariffs and on hot wars, to tank the economy, Mitch will quietly be informed that it's time for the rancid clown to move on. Depending on who the Democratic candidate is, the big-money boys may believe they'd be better off with a sane Dem than with the proven-deranged Donald.

Of course if it's Bernie, all bets are off. In that case, no matter how screwed up the economy is, the donors will tell McConnell to decline to certify the electoral votes--and just leave the dotard in place.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:14 PM
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Of course if it's Bernie, all bets are off. In that case, no matter how screwed up the economy is, the donors will tell McConnell to decline to certify the electoral votes--and just leave the dotard in place.
After doing a little more reading on this, I feel a bit better that the Senate (McConnell) cannot unilaterally decide to reject the vote.
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Members of Congress can object to any state's vote count, provided objection is presented in writing and is signed by at least one member of each house of Congress. An objection supported by at least one senator and one representative will be followed by the suspension of the joint session and by separate debates and votes in each House of Congress; after both Houses deliberate on the objection, the joint session is resumed. A state's certificate of vote can be rejected only if both Houses of Congress vote to accept the objection. In that case, the votes from the State in question are simply ignored. The votes of Arkansas and Louisiana were rejected in the presidential election of 1872.
I expect there will be an unusually large number of objections in 2021, but I can't see how there would be any outright rejections.

So the more likely scenario would be certain states outright stuffing their ballot boxes, the House voting to reject, and the Senate voting to accept. It would probably be the Deep South states since their governments are mostly run by corrupt Republicans who want Trump to stay in power no matter what.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:53 PM
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Since I firmly believe the Democrats will screw this up royally and Trump will be reelected I have to ask, why would he leave DC for good after the election but before the inaugural?

Last edited by Kolak of Twilo; 06-18-2019 at 08:54 PM.
  #20  
Old 06-18-2019, 08:57 PM
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After doing a little more reading on this, I feel a bit better that the Senate (McConnell) cannot unilaterally decide to reject the vote.

I expect there will be an unusually large number of objections in 2021, but I can't see how there would be any outright rejections.

So the more likely scenario would be certain states outright stuffing their ballot boxes, the House voting to reject, and the Senate voting to accept. It would probably be the Deep South states since their governments are mostly run by corrupt Republicans who want Trump to stay in power no matter what.
Yes, thanks. I think your conclusion is correct.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:28 PM
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Kolak, ignoring you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Godot View Post
I think this period of his presidency will be the most dangerous. He will have literally nothing else to lose. I expect as snfaulkner indicated he will do whatever he can to enrich himself on the way out, but I also expect that he will be doing whatever he can to overturn the election. Daily tweets about how the system was rigged against him. Non-stop law suits every step of the way, calls for resistance among his supporters etc.

He won't go quietly into the night.

Yes, precisely. This is exactly what I was alluding to in my "eleven" reference in the OP.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:52 AM
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Goodness, Donald will never commit suicide. He inflicts pain and hopelessness, he doesn't suffer from it.

Full scorched earth. Screaming "fraud," wrecking entire government departments, grabbing everything he can for himself on the way out. Partly as hostage against the legal ramifications sure to follow him from the White House.

But we haven't beaten him yet.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:21 AM
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I don't think the US will have another election while Tr*mp is alive. Given that, I can get behind any scenario that has the Donald acting like a petulant toddler.
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  #24  
Old 06-19-2019, 08:43 AM
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He'll be able to do exactly what he wants to be doing: Riling up rubes and making money off their anger. That's all he wanted from the 2016 race too.
Right up until the day he reports to prison. And even after that, somehow.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:45 AM
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Trump is way too incompetent to pull off an election cancellation. It’s the next, much savvier, demagogue who learns from Trump’s crude example that we need to worry about.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:26 PM
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...Full scorched earth. Screaming "fraud," wrecking entire government departments, grabbing everything he can for himself on the way out. Partly as hostage against the legal ramifications sure to follow him from the White House.
There will be a mysterious fire at the White House, after several days of sightings of more moving vans leaving with full loads than could be accounted for by the amount of belongings the Trumps brought in. The fire will burn the place down to the foundations.


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But we haven't beaten him yet.
Yes, that's the only reason the fire hasn't happened yet.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:34 PM
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It might be so nuclear that his Cabinet ousts him with Pence's blessing. Quick impeachment and removal is also a possibility
There is a zero percent chance that the GOP in the Senate will ever move against Trump. The Republican party is entirely the Party of Trump now and each of their re-elections and chance to hold power hinges entirely on the whims of Trump's devotees. Trump could literally set fire to the White House and McConnell would still run to wipe his ass at a finger snap.

Last edited by Jophiel; 06-19-2019 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:37 PM
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There is a zero percent chance that the GOP in the Senate will ever move against Trump. The Republican party is entirely the Party of Trump now and each of their re-elections and chance to hold power hinges entirely on the whims of Trump's devotees. Trump could literally set fire to the White House and McConnell would still run to wipe his ass at a finger snap.
That actually could change.

All it would take is the Kochs, Sheldon Adelson, and the rest of the top-dollar donors, calling Mitch and saying "we thought this guy could be handled, but he's wrecking our businesses. Pence will follow orders. Get on it"------and Donald would be out on his ass within the month.
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Old 06-21-2019, 07:52 AM
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He will not concede the election
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:01 AM
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If he loses, I can see him skipping the inaugural.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:59 AM
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He will most definitely not greet the Democratic victor in the White House. His cabinet will not lift a finger to help in the transition. He'll leave a day before the Inauguration, and his last acts will be to pardon himself and leave a note in the desk stating "Drop the bomb- exterminate them all."

Then he'll be off to join Fox and go on fundraisers to pay his legal bills for his upcoming trials.
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:17 AM
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He will most definitely not greet the Democratic victor in the White House. His cabinet will not lift a finger to help in the transition. He'll leave a day before the Inauguration, and his last acts will be to pardon himself and leave a note in the desk stating "Drop the bomb- exterminate them all."

Then he'll be off to join Fox and go on fundraisers to pay his legal bills for his upcoming trials.
What a sweet picture you paint... I like it.
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:25 PM
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Me too.


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There is a zero percent chance that the GOP in the Senate will ever move against Trump. The Republican party is entirely the Party of Trump now and each of their re-elections and chance to hold power hinges entirely on the whims of Trump's devotees. Trump could literally set fire to the White House and McConnell would still run to wipe his ass at a finger snap.

Disagree. As Sherrerd points out, they will turn on him in a hot second if he becomes too much of a PITA. There are some true Trump loyalists in the House, but precious few in the Senate.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:06 PM
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That actually could change.

All it would take is the Kochs, Sheldon Adelson, and the rest of the top-dollar donors, calling Mitch and saying "we thought this guy could be handled, but he's wrecking our businesses. Pence will follow orders. Get on it"------and Donald would be out on his ass within the month.
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Disagree. As Sherrerd points out, they will turn on him in a hot second if he becomes too much of a PITA. There are some true Trump loyalists in the House, but precious few in the Senate.
There are 47 Democrats and Independents in the Senate. It takes 67 votes to convict an impeached President. Name 20 Republican senators who would listen to their top-dollar donors and vote to convict Donald Trump of anything, up to and including cold-blooded murder.

Don't forget, the Republicans added two Senate seats in the 2018 election. There are 22 Republican Senate seats up for election in 2020. Unless 20 out of the 22 incumbents have already decided to retire, it's not going to happen.

By the way, one of those 22 is Mitch McConnell. Another is Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma. How do you think they'll vote?
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:22 PM
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Kent, I think you lost the plot. I was talking about a December impeachment, which would be six years before those senators have to stand for reelection.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:29 PM
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Kent, I think you lost the plot. I was talking about a December impeachment, which would be six years before those senators have to stand for reelection.
You're right, I missed the plot. Are you talking about impeaching Donald Trump in December 2020 after he lost the election? The Donald Trump who wouldn't technically have "lost" until the Electors from the several states meet in their respective state capitals on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December, and whose votes are counted and certified in a joint session of Congress on January 6, 2021? The defeated candidate who would leave office on January 20, 2021?

Okay, I think I get the scenario now. I vote for seclusion at Mar-a-lago with furious tweets, and perhaps a trip to Russia on the government dime so he can play a round of golf in the sunny Crimea.

Last edited by Kent Clark; 06-21-2019 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 06-22-2019, 05:56 PM
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Name 20 Republican senators who would listen to their top-dollar donors and vote to convict Donald Trump of anything, up to and including cold-blooded murder. ...
Uh, all of them.

You seem to assume these Senators feel a personal loyalty to Trump.

They are loyal to keeping their seats. If a combination of enough* of their major donors and enough* of their voters say 'we're done with this jackass; vote to get rid of him or you will lose your seat,' then they will vote to get rid of him.

Now, admittedly, some of those Senators are probably fond of the rancid clown's racism and sexism and successful-so-far grifting and general bullying ways. But if it's their own butts (and financial welfare) on the line, they will vote to deep-six him.


*I mean "enough" literally: numbers great enough to convince said Senator that the seat really will be in jeopardy if they vote to protect Trump.

(my bolding in the quote)
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Old 06-22-2019, 06:00 PM
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And some of them will vote to remove him simply if they have the political leeway to go either way.

Kent, that does sound like a plausible scenario. Do you agree there’s no way he attends the inaugural?
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Old 06-22-2019, 08:45 PM
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I don't think suicide is his style. He's too self absorbed for that. I could see him leaving with bad grace when/if he loses. Anyone else think he might not make it that long, you know, health wise? I mean, the guy eats really bad...and this from someone (me) who's diet would probably appall most 'dopers. He's also under incredible stress (much of it of his own making), and he's not exactly a spring chicken. He LOOKS really, really old...I have never seen a president age as fast as this dude has. I mean, they all look run down after 8 years compared to how they were going in (Obama looked REALLY bad after he was finally out, though I'm glad he's looking better now), but Trump looks bad 3 years in. Like death warmed over bad.

My WAG is...he might not make it to re-election. Either he will keel over at some point, or his health will deteriorate to the point he basically can't run. Hell, it would be the perfect excuse for him, though I think it's actually a real thing....he could say, yeah, I'd have won but my health from those nasty Democrats forced me to call it off!
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  #40  
Old 06-22-2019, 09:31 PM
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And some of them will vote to remove him simply if they have the political leeway to go either way.

Kent, that does sound like a plausible scenario. Do you agree there’s no way he attends the inaugural?
I don't agree there's "no way." I think a more plausible scenario is that he skips all those nice formalities, like a visit with the incoming President and a last farewell to the White House staff, he shows up at the actual Inauguration ceremony and scowls all the way through it, then disappears as soon as the ceremonies end, and the next thing the public sees is a distant shot of his plane taking off from Andrews AFB.

The furious tweets will continue, possibly throughout the ceremony itself.

Last edited by Kent Clark; 06-22-2019 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 06-22-2019, 09:31 PM
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That's a definite possibility.
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