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  #301  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:20 PM
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You seem to be implying that there's some sort of contradiction here. Trudeau basically said, yes, he did the things mentioned in the report, but he doesn't believe they were necessarily wrong. From the news story: "Even though I disagree with some of his conclusions, I fully accept this report and take responsibility for everything that happened," he said. "Where I disagree with the commissioner, amongst others, is where he says, and takes a strong perspective, that any contact with the (attorney general) on this issue was improper."

This was poor judgment on his part and the second time he's been on the receiving end of an ethics commissioner's report. Not good. But I do find Scheer's political grandstanding to be annoying, probably because I find Scheer himself rather cynically opportunistic and annoying.
As much as I hope Trudeau stops stepping on his on crank with his golf shoes on (because I do not want a Conservative Prime Minister, like... ever) I am compelled to note that if a person goes to a parole hearing and says they accept responsibility but they don't think they did anything wrong they will not be getting parole.
  #302  
Old 08-15-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
This was poor judgment on his part and the second time he's been on the receiving end of an ethics commissioner's report. Not good. But I do find Scheer's political grandstanding to be annoying, probably because I find Scheer himself rather cynically opportunistic and annoying.


What annoys me about Scheer and the Conservatives is, they likely never would have pressured the Justice Minister, because they wouldn't have had to pressure them. Their JM would have agreed with the PM and gone along with the plans willingly.

I don't think that would have been better for the country overall.
  #303  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:31 AM
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wolfpup, all politicians come across as annoying when viewed through the media. I find they tend to be much better if you can catch them outside that framing. Still, their driver is vote getting so cynically opportunistic is almost a given.

That said I read http://ciec-ccie.parl.gc.ca/EN/Repor...uIIReport.aspx and I want future PMs to seriously deliberate before attempting the same kinds of actions and so there needs to be consequences. I'm fine with a Conservative, NDP or Green government so long as those governments fear to try the same kind of actions. In my view that kind of norm establishing is more important than having the Liberals in power.
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  #304  
Old 09-04-2019, 10:29 PM
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For some reason Trudeau decided to go on the Patriot Act with Hasan Minhaj and got his ass handed to him on a variety of issues including climate change hypocrisy, arms sales to Saudi Arabia and Indigenous rights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDPeXoQUrbI

As I have said before, none of those things get better if there is a Conservative PM in office but damn Trudeau, stop trying to help yourself already.
  #305  
Old 09-05-2019, 12:56 PM
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This just in:

The National Post still hates Trudeau, and wants you to hate him too.
  #306  
Old 09-05-2019, 01:36 PM
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Latest polls show the liberals leading in seats and if the election were held today are the favorites for another majority.

God help us all.
  #307  
Old 09-05-2019, 03:13 PM
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I'm not overly fond of Trudeau... I think he could have done much better on many, many fronts, and am not pleased with his complete backdown on his promise to fix (or at least seriously consider fixing) our "first past the post" system. And buying a pipeline simply pissed of those who want it as much as those who don't...

But he has done a few good things and some things have worked in his favour. He's handled Trump (loose cannon) about as well as anyone could have done, given that even Trump's closest aides have no idea what idiot thing will come out of his pie-hole at any given moment. Our unemployment rate is better than it's been in the past 40 years. Growth rate is OK. Environmental file is "meh", could be better.

He's stepped on his own dick on a number of occasions, but this has been mostly politically damaging - I don't see a huge impact to the country from most of his bone-head moves.

Not that fond of Scheer either. I'm not entirely sure what he stands for, or what ideas he has for direction for the country. I admit this may be partly my fault for not digging in depth. But I really don't know what he stands for other than "I'm not Trudeau"

So if Scheer got in, I would not say "God help us all". Because I don't think we would all go to Hell in a Handcart. Neither will we if the Liberals get a majority. Nor if there is a minority situation. We're actually in pretty good shape.

One problem I see is the trend to polarize the public. A leader is not just wrong... he's EEEEVIL. A party will not form a poorly performing government.... It's "GOD HELP US!!" if the other party is elected. It's this polarization and conversion of politics into a team sport that is the danger, I feel.
  #308  
Old 09-05-2019, 08:56 PM
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Trudeau has done an okay job, in my view.

Trade with the US is hugely important for Canada. Trump may not be the easiest person to work with, and Freeland and Trudeau deserve credit for including Mulroney and pulling out a lot of stops.

I believe Trudeau and his key aides to be well-meaning, capable and with decent hearts and values.

Trudeau raised expectations with flowery language about inclusivity, election reform and other changes, some of which would have been helpful. But the old systems suddenly seemed to work okay for the Liberals and the talk often never progressed further.

The pipeline file was difficult for Harper. Trudeau wanted a compromise between environmentalists and business which satisfied few, and confounded this with increased attention to Aboriginal issues which won him little support either from First Nations or those who prioritize other issues.

China is a difficult problem. But it is hard to see a lot of concrete results here. It is good to have principled views on foreign policy, but expressing them on Twitter might be best left to other governments.

Although the SNC-Lavalin affair was, in my view, overblown, it (and the Mark Norman case) reveals traditional patterns of influence which understandably upset some regions.

Although I think torture is very difficult to forgive or justify, and understand government hands were tied by court decisions, it is hard to see justice in some generous awards to some dubious people. I would like to see more support for the military. And military procurement seems like a mess for every party, is it not possible to make it more practical and stable and less political?
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  #309  
Old 09-06-2019, 08:48 AM
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Canada is a federation where the national powers and provincial responsibilities are sharply divided. Getting agreement from all the provinces is very difficult since they want funding without loss of power. Trudeau has had difficulty in making improvements and not been yet able to implement some sensible national programs such as inter provincial free (or freer) trade, Pharmacare, regulation of certain industries and funding reform. He has not been overly courageous about speaking out about some dubious laws or challenging vested interests.

The economy has done okay with some clouds on the horizon.

Trudeau will benefit from what currently seems to be a very weak NDP party to his left. The Greens are more popular than ever but it remains to be seen if they can win many seats.

Scheer, the Conservative candidate, has not yet made a deep impression on the Canadian public. Sticking to a budget would go some way to help. He could do better; but this thread is more about Trudeau.
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  #310  
Old 09-06-2019, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr_Paprika View Post
Canada is a federation where the national powers and provincial responsibilities are sharply divided. Getting agreement from all the provinces is very difficult since they want funding without loss of power. Trudeau has had difficulty in making improvements and not been yet able to implement some sensible national programs such as inter provincial free (or freer) trade, Pharmacare, regulation of certain industries and funding reform. He has not been overly courageous about speaking out about some dubious laws or challenging vested interests.

The economy has done okay with some clouds on the horizon.

Trudeau will benefit from what currently seems to be a very weak NDP party to his left. The Greens are more popular than ever but it remains to be seen if they can win many seats.

Scheer, the Conservative candidate, has not yet made a deep impression on the Canadian public. Sticking to a budget would go some way to help. He could do better; but this thread is more about Trudeau.
I hope that Scheer does badly so that we might have some hope of a return of the Progressive Conservative party, if not in name, then at least in policy. The PPC is obviously not that. They are the most American party Canada has seen to date, and it is very concerning. It is worrying that we might be starting to see American-style politics showing up in Canada, as evidenced by comments like that made by Sam Stone above. Can we avoid becoming as venomously partisan as the USA? I sure hope so, but the early signs are there that we will not.

Last edited by BeepKillBeep; 09-06-2019 at 10:39 AM.
  #311  
Old 09-06-2019, 11:26 AM
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Polarizing smeers aren't new - remember the Liberal add with ominous marching footsteps about how Harper was going to put the military into cities?

As for the Conservatives...well they're not the Liberals but they hold fundamentally the same values - democratic elections, individual liberty, free markets and pluralism. Which aspects get more attention naturally varies between them but we're not about to become a some sort of libertarian cloaked theocracy if the Conservatives get elected. We're also not about to become some sort of centrally planned hellscape if the Greens or NDP get in, Sam's view not withstanding.

As with every election I'll look at what they've one and what they say they'll do and vote accordingly. The Liberals promised electoral reform and they failed. They didn't even try to do it well. They've managed Trump well and they got the CETA agreement over the line when the EU balked. They got weed legalized...so yeah whatever. They've broadly band aided First Nation reconciliation but that's something no one party is going to fix. They've failed to reduce trade barrier between provinces or improve infrastructure (especially energy and trade). The budget balancing, while not critical, should have been working to ensure a broader range of options in the event of recession. Immigration wise, they've been fine but the response to uncontrolled crossings ha been too muddled.

At this point for me it'll be approached to China, SNC, and proposed national infrastructure spending I'll be looking at. The Liberals aren't looking great to me at this point.
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  #312  
Old 09-06-2019, 11:41 AM
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Polarizing smeers aren't new - remember the Liberal add with ominous marching footsteps about how Harper was going to put the military into cities?
I do remember it. And it was disgusting, and I criticized it heavily among my friends/social media. In fact, as I recall, I said more or less what I said above about it. My hope is that Canada can avoid these kind of extreme polarizing "The other party is evil, and will bring ruin and doom upon us!" The country will survive Scheer, Trudeau, Singh, or May. I'm not too sure about Bernier. The mere existence of a party so extreme as the PPC is very scary to me.

I cannot see me voting for Scheer as the CPoC seems too socially regressive, and I don't think they will take needed action on climate change. Climate change for me is my #1 issue. Trudeau will likely get my vote simply because the Liberal party most closely represents my beliefs, although again, I would like to see a return of a conservative party that isn't too socially regressive, e.g. the Progressive Conservatives.

Last edited by BeepKillBeep; 09-06-2019 at 11:44 AM.
  #313  
Old 09-06-2019, 11:57 AM
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It's the nuances I agree. The ethical lapses and really weirdly bad approach to China have pushed me out of supporting the Liberals. The Conservatives' weirdly reflexive rejection of a market based approach like a carbon tax has me throwing my hands up w.r.t. their apparent disdain for science/expertise. The PPC is a party focused almost exclusively on immigration despite trying to link it to other topics. The Greens might be decent but at the same time they come across as a single topic party but I see them as potentially open to a variety of approaches to it.

We'll see I guess.
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  #314  
Old 09-07-2019, 02:39 PM
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If Scheer spends a lot of time talking about immigration and abortion, I think he will lose the election. He would be better served by talking about foreign policy, budgets, fiscal prudence and (!) the environment.
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  #315  
Old 09-07-2019, 06:03 PM
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If Scheer spends a lot of time talking about immigration and abortion, I think he will lose the election. He would be better served by talking about foreign policy, budgets, fiscal prudence and (!) the environment.

The problem is, no one who has been paying attention will believe a word of that. He's blowing the same trumpet Trump, Ford and Kenney were blowing, and any one who's paid attention has seen that it's all hot air. They have no plan beyond cut taxes for the rich, and cut spending, and that's been shown not to work, repeatedly.


It'd be nice if we had a party that actually was ideologically committed to fiscal responsibility, but we haven't had that for a long time. Surprisingly enough, the current Liberal party probably come closest, but I'm still not sure they really understand this position.
  #316  
Old 09-07-2019, 10:58 PM
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Minority Liberal.

Calling it now.
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