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  #301  
Old 09-11-2019, 10:43 AM
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How is that even possible? The House can just say "Ok, vote now!" and then end voting after 5 minutes or whatever?
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  #302  
Old 09-11-2019, 10:45 AM
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How is that even possible? The House can just say "Ok, vote now!" and then end voting after 5 minutes or whatever?
Presumably, yes, the 64 people present was enough for a quorum, and the House speaker can say, "vote now."
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:51 PM
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Assuming the NC Senate D's went to the 9/11 ceremonies, couldn't they make it back by the afternoon? (assuming the ceremonies are local)
Republicans hold a 34-16 advantage in the NC Senate, which, presumably, is enough to override the veto.
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:01 PM
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I read it, I see it, and still can't believe it. Any more shit like this and I'll be chewing through the leather straps for breakfast.
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  #305  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:17 PM
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... Republicans said there wouldn't be a vote today...
This seems to be the point of contention. There seem to be two relevant Republicans here: House Speaker Tim Moore, who has maintained "no announcement was made Tuesday that there would be no votes held Wednesday morning", and House Rules Chairman David Lewis, who House Minority Leader Darren Jackson claimed in a press conference "Lewis told him Tuesday the House would take no recorded votes on the floor until 1 p.m. Wednesday". Lewis disputed that claim ("At no time do I recall Rep. Jackson asking if there would be no recorded votes at all") and it appears that afterwards Jackson backed off his initial claim:

Quote:
Although Jackson called on Lewis and other Republicans to undo their vote out of a sense of fairness, he later told a WRAL News reporter that he doesn't believe Lewis misled him Tuesday night.
Somewhat complicating the matter is the fact that Lewis texted a reporter "No votes at 830."

Overall, it appears that the claim "Republicans said there wouldn't be a vote today" is not well-supported by the available evidence.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 09-11-2019 at 02:17 PM.
  #306  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:20 PM
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Republicans hold a 34-16 advantage in the NC Senate, which, presumably, is enough to override the veto.
Your numbers are off, I think: it's 29-21. I think they need one Democrat to switch to get the 60% they need for a veto override.

Folks are calling Democratic senators like crazy to urge them to hold fast. Speaker Tim Moore's phone line is burning up, both from furious callers and from the heat from the sulfurous fumes his body's giving off. Educators in the Piedmont are organizing emergency actions in Raleigh.

This is a lit match. I'm not yet sure whether it's gonna fizzle out, or set something on fire.
  #307  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:28 PM
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Your numbers are off, I think: it's 29-21. I think they need one Democrat to switch to get the 60% they need for a veto override.

Folks are calling Democratic senators like crazy to urge them to hold fast. Speaker Tim Moore's phone line is burning up, both from furious callers and from the heat from the sulfurous fumes his body's giving off. Educators in the Piedmont are organizing emergency actions in Raleigh.

This is a lit match. I'm not yet sure whether it's gonna fizzle out, or set something on fire.
Hopefully the Democrats at least learn from this that they must expect every possible dirty trick. They should assume the worst at all times from their Republican colleagues.
  #308  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:38 PM
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Hopefully the Democrats at least learn from this that they must expect every possible dirty trick. They should assume the worst at all times from their Republican colleagues.
I think 9/11-- nine-motherfucking-eleven -- lulled them into a sense of false decency. Surely Republicans who have spent the last half-century cloaking themselves in a jingoistic patriotism wouldn't stoop so low as to use commemorative services for 9/11 as a chance for a dirty trick?

I understand why it fooled them. At this point, there's no floor to their indecency. There's nothing they won't do.

This should be making national news, and this vote needs a short name to brand Republicans with. But all I can come up with is the 9/11 vote. I hope there's someone better at branding than me, because everyone who participated in this dirty trick needs to have that in their biography and in political ads against them.
  #309  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:51 PM
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Hopefully the Democrats at least learn from this that they must expect every possible dirty trick. They should assume the worst at all times from their Republican colleagues.
I don't think it was a "dirty trick" at all. Here's what the Speaker had to say, from LHoD's article:

Quote:
"If they didn't want it to pass, all they had to do was show up for work," Moore said during an afternoon news conference. "Our job as a House member is to be on that floor, in that seat, near that green or that red button when we take up matters."

Moore repeatedly maintained during the question-and-answer session that no announcement was made Tuesday that there would be no votes held Wednesday morning. The budget bill was on the published House calendar for action Wednesday, as it has been for weeks without coming up for a vote.

"I made clear that, if I saw an opportunity to [override the veto], I'm going to do it," he said. "The bill was properly noticed. Procedures were properly followed."

... Moore has made it clear for weeks that he would call the override vote whenever the opportunity arose.

"The speaker said at any given opportunity he would call it," longtime Rep. Julia Howard, R-Davie, said. "The opportunity was there, and he called it."
  #310  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:56 PM
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I don't think it was a "dirty trick" at all. Here's what the Speaker had to say, from LHoD's article:
Oh, that is some fucking bullshit. Moore is deceiving you, and if you're believing him, it's [redacted].

No, no announcement was made about votes. Nobody said there were announcements: they said there were private assurances made. Multiple people, including reporters, received those assurances.

Moore used 9/11 remembrance ceremonies to push something through that he couldn't otherwise do. He's a weasel, and I think [redacted].

Edit: and you know what, for some out-of-stater to come in and piously tell me that this is all right? Unless you want to continue the conversation in the Pit, I'm not allowed to say what I think about that.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 09-11-2019 at 02:58 PM.
  #311  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:03 PM
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I think 9/11-- nine-motherfucking-eleven -- lulled them into a sense of false decency. Surely Republicans who have spent the last half-century cloaking themselves in a jingoistic patriotism wouldn't stoop so low as to use commemorative services for 9/11 as a chance for a dirty trick?



I understand why it fooled them. At this point, there's no floor to their indecency. There's nothing they won't do.



This should be making national news, and this vote needs a short name to brand Republicans with. But all I can come up with is the 9/11 vote. I hope there's someone better at branding than me, because everyone who participated in this dirty trick needs to have that in their biography and in political ads against them.
It's utterly despicable, but they still should have seen it coming.
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  #312  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:07 PM
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I don't think it was a "dirty trick" at all. Here's what the Speaker had to say, from LHoD's article:
So holding off the vote indefinitely, waiting for the one moment when a representative is sick or gets caught in traffic or attends an important memorial service, is just fine and dandy by you?

Short-circuiting democracy and throwing ethics out the window is acceptable as long as you like the results?

Whatever happened to "elections have consequences"? Apparently they only have consequences if you can't figure out how to game the system.
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  #313  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:09 PM
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Presumably, yes, the 64 people present was enough for a quorum, and the House speaker can say, "vote now."
This seems strange to me. There's no amount of time given for people to get back to vote or anything like that?

Seems like all the Republicans, or Democrats for that matter, could just make a pact to meet at midnight and start passing all kinds of stuff.
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:12 PM
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Wasn't there an episode of The West Wing in which this sort of scenario played out in the US Congress? And then didn't the UK House of Commons do something very similar in real life?
  #315  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:19 PM
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This seems strange to me. There's no amount of time given for people to get back to vote or anything like that?

Seems like all the Republicans, or Democrats for that matter, could just make a pact to meet at midnight and start passing all kinds of stuff.
This was a scheduled session. However, the NCGA has had "skeleton sessions" like this for weeks. Because they refused to vote on the override,a vote they knew they'd lose, they were spending thousands of NC tax dollars every day to force legislators to show up, only to be gaveled out five minutes later, after formally postponing the vote. Dems were showing up, knowing that if they didn't, the override would be held.

Today Dems received assurances that the vote wouldn't be held, so that folks could make it to remembrance ceremonies. Those assurances were lies. The vote that had been postponed for two months was suddenly held, in contradiction to those assurances, and to common decency.

Dems maybe should've known that common decency is something that all 55 Republican representatives have dispensed with. It's sometimes hard to remember that your political opponents really aren't respectable people with a shred of honor.
  #316  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:20 PM
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This was a scheduled session. However, the NCGA has had "skeleton sessions" like this for weeks. Because they refused to vote on the override,a vote they knew they'd lose, they were spending thousands of NC tax dollars every day to force legislators to show up, only to be gaveled out five minutes later, after formally postponing the vote. Dems were showing up, knowing that if they didn't, the override would be held.

Today Dems received assurances that the vote wouldn't be held, so that folks could make it to remembrance ceremonies. Those assurances were lies. The vote that had been postponed for two months was suddenly held, in contradiction to those assurances, and to common decency.

Dems maybe should've known that common decency is something that all 55 Republican representatives have dispensed with. It's sometimes hard to remember that your political opponents really aren't respectable people with a shred of honor.
Definitely shady. And for someone to say "I don't think it was a "dirty trick" at all" is ridiculous.
  #317  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:22 PM
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Speaking of the budget, just what exactly is in the budget?
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:32 PM
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This kind of thing is awful, but if it's a surprise to anyone, then I don't think you've been paying attention. This stuff is the norm. Maybe it shouldn't be the norm, but Democrats should recognize that it is right now.
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  #319  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:39 PM
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... No, no announcement was made about votes. Nobody said there were announcements: they said there were private assurances made. Multiple people, including reporters, received those assurances. ...
Who? You said "Republicans" (plural) "said there wouldn't be a vote today". In examining the issue, which additional Republicans, aside from Lewis, said anything of the sort? AFAICT, he was the only one, so you're wrong right from the outset. You might have something to hang your hat on if the lone Republican that did say something along those lines was the Speaker, but it wasn't even that, it was just a committee chair.

So let's examine your "multiple people, including reporters, received those assurances" claim. You seem to have a habit of using plural nouns when singular nouns are warranted. "reporters"? really? Which additional reporters, aside from the one single reporter from WRAL "received those assurances"? The article says:

Quote:
Lewis did acknowledge telling a WRAL News reporter via text Tuesday night that there would be no votes at the 8:30 a.m. session. But he said that's because he didn't think there would be any. He wasn't on the floor during the override vote.
AFAICT, that's the only person that "received those assurances". As I noted earlier, initially Jackson claimed he had, which I suppose is where you get "multiple people" from, but Jackson himself appears to have retracted that claim. The article says "he doesn't believe Lewis lied or misled him about the morning session."

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 09-11-2019 at 03:43 PM.
  #320  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:44 PM
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...
Today Dems received assurances that the vote wouldn't be held, so that folks could make it to remembrance ceremonies. Those assurances were lies. The vote that had been postponed for two months was suddenly held, in contradiction to those assurances, and to common decency.

Dems maybe should've known that common decency is something that all 55 Republican representatives have dispensed with. It's sometimes hard to remember that your political opponents really aren't respectable people with a shred of honor.
"Happy September 11th!" from your local Republican party.
  #321  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:44 PM
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HD, if you're not going to join me in the pit, I got nothing to say to you. Your behavior is transparently not worth engaging with.

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  #322  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:48 PM
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HD, if you're not going to join me in the pit, I got nothing to say to you. Your behavior is transparently not worth engaging with.
*shrug* I don't care. You've made factually-incorrect claims in this thread and I've corrected them. I have no desire to join you in the pit, and you're free to ignore what I've posted here (in fact, I'd encourage you to do so if you don't think you are capable of abiding by the rules of this forum in responding to me). If you make further factually-deficient claims, I'll probably correct them again here, and you're free to do whatever you want with that information.
  #323  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:58 PM
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Overall, it appears that the claim "Republicans said there wouldn't be a vote today" is not well-supported by the available evidence.
Which only holds true if you take Republicans to be honest with the public. If you want to keep eating the turd sandwich, go ahead, but don't expect the rest of us to agree that it's delicious.
  #324  
Old 09-11-2019, 04:03 PM
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Honestly, I'd rather this thread not become a showcase for HD's particular . . . talents. His cherry-picking of data and remarkable interpretations of what folks say don't merit much response, not in a thread that's supposed to be substantive. I'd consider it a favor if folks would take responses to him to a more appropriate forum.
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:07 PM
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All the claims of deception / dirty tricks / assurances & lies stem from one single tweet from one single Republican to one single reporter that said "No votes at 830." He was obviously mistaken, but that's weak tea. Extremely weak, even for libs on the SDMB. But, by all means, keep bunching your panties or screaming at the sky or throwing a tantrum.
  #326  
Old 09-11-2019, 04:08 PM
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There's nothing "remarkable" about my interpretations. You said "Republicans" (plural) and "reporters" (plural) and you were wrong to do so.
  #327  
Old 09-11-2019, 04:12 PM
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Honestly, I'd rather this thread not become a showcase for HD's particular . . . talents. His cherry-picking of data and remarkable interpretations of what folks say don't merit much response, not in a thread that's supposed to be substantive. I'd consider it a favor if folks would take responses to him to a more appropriate forum.
I've got a better idea: put him on Ignore.
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  #328  
Old 09-11-2019, 04:30 PM
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I just came across this four year old article from the Daily Tar Heel (UNC newspaper)...

NC House Speaker to-be Tim Moore has contentious past

Quote:
Moore became speaker of Student Congress shortly after he arrived at UNC. In May 1991, Moore appointed 11 additional members to Congress for the summer session and led an effort to stop the Carolina Gay and Lesbian Association and Black Student Movement from receiving student fee funding.
He's been doing shit like this since his college days. What an asshole.

Last edited by Lance Turbo; 09-11-2019 at 04:31 PM.
  #329  
Old 09-11-2019, 05:06 PM
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Well I think we have our answer to H.Ditka's question about whether Democrats or Republicans are more patriotic.

Hint, its not the side that cynically used the other sides observance of a day of rememberence to screw them over.
  #330  
Old 09-11-2019, 05:17 PM
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Well I think we have our answer to H.Ditka's question about whether Democrats or Republicans are more patriotic.

Hint, its not the side that cynically used the other sides observance of a day of rememberence to screw them over.
Good point!
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:28 PM
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You claim that the victim was shot six times at point-blank range with a .45. Forensic tests and autopsy prove, beyond any doubt, that only five shots were fired. Hence, your facts are wrong and therefore your charge of bloody murder is quashed by the facts!
  #332  
Old 09-11-2019, 05:35 PM
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Well I think we have our answer to H.Ditka's question about whether Democrats or Republicans are more patriotic.

Hint, its not the side that cynically used the other sides observance of a day of rememberence to screw them over.
If you think the actions of a handful of state legislators can save your side's patriotism deficit from polls like this, well, I don't think there's anything else that needs to be said on that subject.
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:39 PM
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Ha! On the one side, we have actual actions by political legislators in office, prioritizing political concerns over patriotic remembrances and honor... And on the other, we have some internet guy's weird and childishly simplistic interpretation of polling answers (which don't actually have anything to do with actual patriotism). I wonder which actually affects the real world more? Hmmm...
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  #334  
Old 09-11-2019, 06:13 PM
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Does it even matter whether or not the Republicans said there wouldn't be a vote? Either way, taking advantage of the 9/11 memorial to push through a veto override is despicable.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:28 PM
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Does it even matter whether or not the Republicans said there wouldn't be a vote? ...
It matters for purposes of evaluating the accuracy (or inaccuracy, in this case) of these claims:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
... Republicans said there wouldn't be a vote today...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
... they said there were private assurances made. Multiple people, including reporters, received those assurances. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
... Today Dems received assurances that the vote wouldn't be held, so that folks could make it to remembrance ceremonies. Those assurances were lies. ...

If someone just wants to share their opinion that they think it was a shitty thing to do, fine, you know what they say about opinions. However, if someone's going to make a factual claim about alleged actions by their political opponents, they should be accurate. And it matters, or should matter, to a place that claims to be "fighting ignorance".
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:46 PM
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If someone just wants to share their opinion that they think it was a shitty thing to do, fine, you know what they say about opinions. However, if someone's going to make a factual claim about alleged actions by their political opponents, they should be accurate. And it matters, or should matter, to a place that claims to be "fighting ignorance".
Drop this hijack about whether it was singular or multiple.

[/moderating]
  #337  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:06 PM
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Drop this hijack about whether it was singular or multiple.

[/moderating]
Thanks
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Does it even matter whether or not the Republicans said there wouldn't be a vote? Either way, taking advantage of the 9/11 memorial to push through a veto override is despicable.
It matters because to suggest Republicans didn't pass this message to Dems through channels that are traditionally reliable suggests Dems acted in such a bizarre way that traumatic brain injury would be the likeliest explanation.

Dems knew that Moore was pulling every string he could find to override the veto. They know about his nasty political tricks and his lack of decorum (Google the "motorcycle abortion bill" y'all). They've been showing up every day, rescheduling vital life needs, to prevent him from doing the shit they know he wants to do.

So why would Democrats suddenly skip this vote?

a) Traumatic brain injury suffered en masse, making them forget the strategy they've committed to, sacrificing so much in the process; or
b) They received assurances through historically reliable channels that 9/11 at least would be treated as a day of truce, and so for the first time in two months thought it was safe not to show up.

I'm not seeing an explanation "c" on offer, which is why it's so offensively absurd to suggest that those assurances weren't offered.

There's a good question about whether they should have relied on those channels. Living here and seeing how the state has functioned, I can't blame the Dems too much for relying on them: it's really hard to admit that your political opponent hasn't the tiniest shred of decency. But if they rely on them again, I'll fault them.
  #338  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:30 PM
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What are these "channels that are traditionally reliable" that you're referring to? Do you know of their existence, and that they were utilized to communicate that Wednesday would be a truce, or are you just speculating / guessing?

'Assurances must have been given because I just can't imagine the dems acting this stupidly' is not a convincing argument. I don't have any trouble imagining the dems acting this stupidly. Perhaps they even perceive a political advantage in losing this vote, in that now they get to get back to their "vital life needs" and can bray loudly about imagined "assurances" and paint the Republicans generally as people who went back on their word. In short, they get to paint themselves as martyrs and now don't actually have to keep doing the hard work of legislating, or at least standing athwart legislation.
  #339  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:32 PM
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What
again: done with you.
  #340  
Old 09-11-2019, 08:13 PM
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Thanks



It matters because to suggest Republicans didn't pass this message to Dems through channels that are traditionally reliable suggests Dems acted in such a bizarre way that traumatic brain injury would be the likeliest explanation.
...
Sure, but there's an attempt to divert the conversation onto the subject of whether or not the Republicans said there wouldn't be a vote. If that attempt succeeds then it becomes a "he said, she said" argument which is easier to muddy and diverts discussion away from the Republicans' despicably unethical gaming of the system, behavior that is difficult to defend.

It diverts the discussion from something that's hard to defend to an argument about who said what. It's a typical rhetorical trick.
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  #341  
Old 09-11-2019, 08:41 PM
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So, really, its about the Republicans stabbing the Dems in the back after saying that they wouldn't! Now, if they hadn't lied about it, well, that's just plain old fashioned American politics.

I guess, then, that if we can't prove that they lied about the pending stab, then they get a pass on that. Then it just about trivial shit, just the simple stabbing itself. Hardly worth mentioning, without the lying part. Makes the whole thing a lot more serious, if they did that!
  #342  
Old 09-11-2019, 08:43 PM
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I'm not seeing an explanation "c" on offer, which is why it's so offensively absurd to suggest that those assurances weren't offered.
Possibility "c" is that the Democrats knew they would eventually lose this, and so did so in such a way as to make their opponents look as bad as possible. I've no idea how likely that is, but it's what skilled politicians might do.
  #343  
Old 09-11-2019, 08:58 PM
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Possibility "c" is that the Democrats knew they would eventually lose this, and so did so in such a way as to make their opponents look as bad as possible. I've no idea how likely that is, but it's what skilled politicians might do.
That's not likely at all. Democrats had an organized, disciplined strategy. They were lied to about treating 9/11 as a day of truce. They believed that Republicans wouldn't stoop so low as to tell this lie. Had Republicans had a shred of decency (and all 55 Republican present voted for the override, seeing in front of them evidence of leadership's treachery), Democrats' strategy would have held, and they would have been able to force a negotiated compromise.

You know, like what grown-ass politicians do.
  #344  
Old 09-12-2019, 12:17 AM
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... Democrats had an organized, disciplined strategy. They were lied to about treating 9/11 as a day of truce. They believed that Republicans wouldn't stoop so low as to tell this lie. ...
There is no evidence that any Republican legislator "lied" to any dem legislator about voting on Wednesday.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 09-12-2019 at 12:18 AM.
  #345  
Old 09-12-2019, 01:17 AM
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Even if we were to disregard the lack of evidence for a moment: Which NC legislator currently maintains that they were "lied" to by the Republicans about the vote? Can anyone even name one?
  #346  
Old 09-12-2019, 01:36 AM
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Even if we were to disregard the lack of evidence for a moment: Which NC legislator currently maintains that they were "lied" to by the Republicans about the vote? Can anyone even name one?
Well, Rep. Deb Butler and Sen. Jeff Jackson, for two, seem agreed that the Republicans' behavior was dishonest and unethical. It's Gov. Cooper who's quoted as stating that "Democrats were told there would be no votes this morning", which was "a bald-faced lie".

And when you consider the unlikelihood of the alternative scenario---that Democratic lawmakers, who have been fighting the Republican override attempts for weeks, just spontaneously assumed that the Pubs wouldn't vote today even though there was no reason to believe that---then it seems pretty evident that Republicans did indeed deliberately lie to Democrats about not intending a vote.

On the bright side, at least the Democrats have been warned again how sleazy and untrustworthy their Republican colleagues are, and we all get a reminder of the defeated Republicans' dirty tricks after losing the gubernatorial election. The Republicans know that they can't win if they don't cheat, so they cheat. Simple as that.
  #347  
Old 09-12-2019, 01:43 AM
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Another Democratic legislator quoted by name as claiming to have been lied to by the Pubs:
Quote:
Democrats say many of their members missed the morning session because they were told verbally that there would be no vote on the budget.

House Minority Leader Darren Jackson said Rep. David Lewis, a Republican who presided as House speaker on Tuesday, told him there would be no vote.
And the same link also has a video of Rep. [Garland] Pierce saying the same thing, that he was told there would be no vote on the override.
  #348  
Old 09-12-2019, 02:00 AM
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Well, Rep. Deb Butler and Sen. Jeff Jackson, for two, seem agreed that the Republicans' behavior was dishonest and unethical. It's Gov. Cooper who's quoted as stating that "Democrats were told there would be no votes this morning", which was "a bald-faced lie".

And when you consider the unlikelihood of the alternative scenario---that Democratic lawmakers, who have been fighting the Republican override attempts for weeks, just spontaneously assumed that the Pubs wouldn't vote today even though there was no reason to believe that---then it seems pretty evident that Republicans did indeed deliberately lie to Democrats about not intending a vote. ...
I think it's perfectly clear what happened from the original article:

Dems didn't show up for work because Jackson (a dem) told them there wouldn't be any votes. He thought Lewis (a Republican) had told him that when Lewis had actually told him that there wouldn't be votes on two particular "mini-budget" bills:

Quote:
House Minority Leader Darren Jackson said in a hastily called press conference after the vote that House Rules Chairman David Lewis told him Tuesday the House would take no recorded votes on the floor until 1 p.m. Wednesday. Jackson, D-Wake, said he then told his caucus they didn't need to be on the floor Wednesday morning and could instead prepare for redistricting meetings and other legislative business planned for the day.

Lewis, R-Harnett, said he never told Jackson there would be no votes on Wednesday morning, saying that he told him the House wouldn't vote on two "mini-budget" bills added to the floor calendar that would provide money for disaster relief and for prison safety upgrades until after House Democrats caucused Wednesday morning.
Jackson seems to have realized the mistake was his. The article goes on to say: "he doesn't believe Lewis lied or misled him about the morning session."

As for the screeching Butler, she's clearly angry about losing the vote, but she doesn't appear to ever claim that any Republican told her no votes would be held. The only quotes I can find from her, across both articles, are:

Quote:
"You shall not do this to democracy in North Carolina, Mr. Speaker. How dare you do this, Mr. Speaker," she shouted as Moore tried to gavel her to silence and then turned off her microphone. "I will not yield, Mr. Speaker."
Quote:
Before the vote, Democratic Representative Deb Butler screamed in protest of Moore.

"This is a tragedy. This is a travesty of the process, and you know it," Butler yelled. "Mr. Speaker, how dare you, Mr. Speaker!"
  #349  
Old 09-12-2019, 02:11 AM
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The only Democrat who (originally) claimed to have been told there would be no vote (by a Republican) is Jackson, who at one point claimed Lewis told him, but then retreated from that claim later ("he doesn't believe Lewis lied or misled him about the morning session.") Everyone else in the dem caucus appears to have gotten the information second-hand (from Jackson, who "then told his caucus they didn't need to be on the floor Wednesday morning") not from a Republican. Pierce saying "that he was told there would be no vote on the override" is perfectly consistent with this, he just fails to mention that it was Jackson (a fellow dem) that told him, not a Republican.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 09-12-2019 at 02:15 AM.
  #350  
Old 09-12-2019, 06:31 AM
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This is video the full statement from Darren Jackson: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/po...234986257.html

He is saying (paraphrasing) "I am not calling Lewis ... a liar [because he's not the type of person who would make that accusation]" and then went on to describe in full how Lewis told him there would be no vote before there was a vote, concluding that since Lewis also wasn't there, he's allowing for the possibility that Lewis also didn't know.
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