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Old 01-12-2019, 05:59 PM
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The Tulsi Gabbard Presidential campaign thread


So Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, who is an alleged Democrat, is running for Congress.

And she begins her campaign by criticizing other Democrats who call Trump nominees out for using their religious biases as a basis of discrimination. She claims that if a person discriminates against people on the basis of religion, and they are called out for it, they're being discriminated against. She didn't name names, but it was implied that she was referring to her fellow Hawaiian, Senator Maizie Hirono.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.a2edc5695351


She's an investor in cryptocurrency
https://www.ccn.com/u-s-lawmaker-tul...n-investments/

She supports Bashar Assad
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/tuls...dent-1.6830335

She opposed a House resolution calling for religious freedom in India.
https://qz.com/india/628124/tulsi-ga...lam-to-terror/
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:20 PM
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I could see her getting it done against Trump in the election. I cannot see her getting the nomination, though.

She is not progressive enough on social justice issues for a lot of progressives.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:26 PM
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I could see her getting it done against Trump in the election. I cannot see her getting the nomination, though.

She is not progressive enough on social justice issues for a lot of progressives.
I can't see Republicans voting for a Hindu.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:27 PM
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I'm having a hard time unraveling that... Does she mean that people should be allowed to discriminate, just because they claim that their religion requires it?

If that's what she means, then that's enough of a deal-breaker for me.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:00 PM
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I can't see Republicans voting for a Hindu.
I'm slightly amused that she is a convert to Hinduism and not of Indian descent, while the most prominent Indian-Americans in politics are Bobby Jindal (born Hindu but a Catholic convert) and Nikki Haley (born Sikh but a Methodist convert).

And I agree that too many people will be put off by her religion. I wish it wouldn't matter, but it does. And I want the Democratic Party to win this time.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:35 PM
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I've never voted for an R or D in a Prez election, but I would consider voting for her based on foreign policy alone.

At this rate though, Trump seems to be on the right track re: military pullouts.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:43 PM
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I'm having a hard time unraveling that... Does she mean that people should be allowed to discriminate, just because they claim that their religion requires it?
Add me to the confused list.

Need clarification.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:02 PM
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I live in Hawaii, and I do not sense any excitement for her run. She's popular in her present office, but I think this bid will fizzle out early on.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:15 PM
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Add me to the confused list.

Need clarification.
Individual 1 has nominated candidates for the executive branch who have anti-gay and anti-minority beliefs. When questioned about it, they say they believe those things because their religion says they have to. When people like Senator Hirono call them on it, saying their views disqualify them from the positions they are nominated for, Tulsi Gabbard says such people as Senator Hirono are prejudiced against religious people.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:17 PM
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I'm guessing this, which I'm finding out about today, has been brought up before in past threads. Steve Bannon spoke highly of and wanted to meet with Gabbard in late 2016
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:31 PM
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She's criticized Israel, so she won't be allowed the nomination.

I like her and the fact she's Hindu is a positive for me because the Abrahamic religions are the cause of all the world's problems. I would consider voting for her over Trump.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:37 PM
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I might be willing to vote for her, but as I said to one of my Republican friends lately, I think the country is at least another generation away from electing a non-Christian(professing). Even with a big liberal political swing, I can't see it being enough to win a general election.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:46 PM
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the Abrahamic religions are the cause of all the world's problems.
Wow, really? There were no problems in the areas of the world that weren't under the influence of the Abrahamic religions?
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:33 PM
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The cult she belongs to isn't exactly regular Hinduism. It splintered off of ISKCON. Now ISKCON denies that their religion is Hinduism, and Chris Butler, the guru who splintered and formed the cult the Gabbards belong to, also says he isn't Hindu. Tulsi's extremely homophobic father Mike Gabbard claims to be Catholic, but then he has been participating in the ISKCON splinter cult from the start.

This New Yorker article "What Does Tulsi Gabbard Believe?" goes into some depth on that cult, the Science of Identity Foundation.
Quote:
But a number of Butler’s former disciples recall a harsher, more authoritarian atmosphere. Defectors tell stories of children discouraged by Butler from attending secular schools; of followers forbidden to speak publicly about the group; of returning travelers quarantined for days, lest they transmit a contagious disease to Butler; of devotees lying prostrate whenever he entered the room, or adding bits of his nail clippings to their food, or eating spoonfuls of sand that he had walked upon. Some former members portray themselves as survivors of an abusive cult.
Tulsi was raised in this tightly-knit cult, attended its schools, and began her political career following her father's example in opposition to LGBT rights. She has married a husband who is also involved in it. Yet she avoids ever mentioning it or telling the truth about her and her family's participation in it. Once she becomes more nationally prominent and gets looked at more closely, she will either have to own up to her cult connections or look like she's trying to hide something.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:38 PM
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I just don't trust her at all. Not when that disgusting lump Steve Bannon loves her and is full of praise for her. What bothers me the most about her is her enthusiastic fandom of Hindutva extremist Narendra Modi, which is connected with her opposition to the resolution for religious freedom in India.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:40 PM
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Wow, really? There were no problems in the areas of the world that weren't under the influence of the Abrahamic religions?
Its influence is hard to over emphasize. I'm barely being hyperbolic.

She's talking too much about peace & doesn't seem to go along with the mainstream narrative of "Assad is le ebil villian we must go to war!~!!!!" You have to be pro war to be considered a viable Democrat. Which is also the reason the TV tells everyone to hate Trump.

Hillary was supposed to have been elected and the military industrial complex was supposed to have gotten their war with Assad, Russia and Iran, but things didn't turn out that way. Trump was ostentatious enough to deflect the media at every turn. I don't have confidence that Tulsi will be capable of the same.

Still, I wish her all the luck.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:42 PM
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Frankly I think she has enough charisma to play all of that off. Unlike almost all the rest of the Democratic field, she actually has a very marketable image. If she really goes on the warpath with her campaign, being extremely proactive and not just reactive, it could build up enough momentum that all that potential baggage gets rolled over.

I'm looking at the candidates of this election the way Don Draper would look at them. To win this election - not other elections, not past elections or hypothetical elections but this election - the successful candidate will have to become a brand, a human meme. Nothing less than "iconic" will do.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:06 PM
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What bothers me the most about her is her enthusiastic fandom of Hindutva extremist Narendra Modi
What's the nature of your objection here? I gather that Modi is a supporter of Hindu identity for India. What's the problem with that? Are you worried about Sikh genocide?

Do you similarly object to the fact that Israeli & American governmental leaders (Chuck Schumer being one for example) support Israel strongly as a jewish nation? There are a lot of Congressmen on both sides of the isle who are enthusiastically Zionist.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:35 PM
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She's talking too much about peace & doesn't seem to go along with the mainstream narrative of "Assad is le ebil villian we must go to war!~!!!!" You have to be pro war to be considered a viable Democrat.
Here is what her peace talk looks like: "Bad enough US has not been bombing al-Qaeda/al-Nusra in Syria. But it’s mind-boggling that we protest Russia’s bombing of these terrorists."

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 01-12-2019 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:40 PM
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Social media influencers and mainstream media are going all out against her right now.

In the must pass defense authorization bill that was ushered through congress last year there was a provision that authorized war with Iran. It was quietly slipped in by the industrial military complex. Tulsi was a critic of and asked for debate on the subject.

The idea that Gabbard is a sexist racist homophobic bigot is patently absurd. She's being shilled against so hard because she's a critic of the military industrial complex.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:54 PM
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I've been re listening to the Joe Rogan podcast from several months ago. She starts talking about the authorization to go to war with Iran at about 22 minutes in.

I recommend listening to the whole show unless you want your opinions formed by "social media experts" in soundbytes and out of context quotes from propagandists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIb2lmHgd5s
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:03 AM
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I'm sure she'll do very well among Jill Stein voters.
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:10 AM
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Tulsi has two big obstacles in her way:
One, there are a lot of Clinton loyalists in the Democratic Party who won't vote for her because she backed Bernie. They may despise everyone who isn't named Clinton, but Tulsi attacked their queen, and they will not turn out for her.
Two, the GOP, which generally has the backing of corporate media, can't even get a Mormon with a perfect Midwestern accent in the White House. While Gabbard's sect of Hinduism isn't exactly ISKCON, it was loosely identified with it for a long time, and being seen as a "Hare Krishna" or even just a "cultist" might give her an even worse image then just being a "Hindu." Even the GOP couldn't sell that; how do the Democrats? Eh, maybe I'm wrong.

I like that this cycle is shaping up very different than 2016. I kind of like Tulsi. But i figure she doesn't have a snowball's chance in the mouth of Kilauea.

Last edited by foolsguinea; 01-13-2019 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:14 AM
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Here is what her peace talk looks like: "Bad enough US has not been bombing al-Qaeda/al-Nusra in Syria. But itís mind-boggling that we protest Russiaís bombing of these terrorists."
From CNN

Quote:
Gabbard has staked out anti-interventionist foreign policy positions in Congress. Her 2017 meeting with Syrian dictator Bashar Al-Assad drew widespread criticism. "Initially, I hadn't planned on meeting him," Gabbard told CNN's Jake Tapper in January of 2017. "When the opportunity arose to meet with him, I did so because I felt it's important that if we profess to truly care about the Syrian people, about their suffering, then we've got to be able to meet with anyone that we need to if there is a possibility that we could achieve peace, and that's exactly what we talked about."
The military industrial complex does not want someone like her as commander in chief. These are the real reasons you are seeing so much anti-Gabbard shilling on social media and the mainstream media.
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:22 AM
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Yeah, I don't know about all that. Your argument inspired a thread, DJ.
Trump works for the media, tell me I'm wrong.
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Old 01-13-2019, 03:11 AM
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Tulsi Gabbard’s Homophobic Remarks:
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...xNyEAHc32JoDec
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Old 01-13-2019, 04:44 AM
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Tulsi has two big obstacles in her way:
One, there are a lot of Clinton loyalists in the Democratic Party who won't vote for her because she backed Bernie. They may despise everyone who isn't named Clinton, but Tulsi attacked their queen, and they will not turn out for her.
Two, the GOP, which generally has the backing of corporate media, can't even get a Mormon with a perfect Midwestern accent in the White House.
And three, she's a total nutcase.

I mean, really, why are we even talking about her?
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:20 AM
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I knew Tulsi Gabbard only by name before reading this thread. What I learned about her here is deeply disturbing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Motorbike View Post
What's the nature of your objection here? I gather that Modi is a supporter of Hindu identity for India. What's the problem with that? Are you worried about Sikh genocide?

Do you similarly object to the fact that Israeli & American governmental leaders (Chuck Schumer being one for example) support Israel strongly as a jewish nation? There are a lot of Congressmen on both sides of the isle who are enthusiastically Zionist.
India is constitutionally a secular democratic republic. India is an ethnically and religiously diverse country, arguably more diverse than the entirety of Europe. Hindutva is a betrayal of those values. It's no different than a right-wing American politician wanting to celebrate the "Christian identity" of the United States. Hindutva is virulently anti-Muslim, which is a problem in a country with the world's third largest Muslim population.

By the way, I am an Indian-American and a Hindu.

Modi and the BJP are a vile, racist, bigoted, nationalistic and authoritarian movement. Modi has been in power longer than Trump, but he's picked up a lot of Trumpist propaganda tactics.

Just on that basis, I would disqualify Tulsi Gabbard from any position of responsibility, and definitely not as a standard-bearer for the American left.

Iskcon—better known as the "Hare Krishnas"—is an authoritarian cult. I'd never trust someone from that community or an offshoot for public responsibility. They don't consider themselves Hindu, and many Hindus reject them as well.

But even without her connections to the BJP and Iskcon, Gabbard's own statements about religion and sexuality in America are vile and ought to be firmly rejected by the Democratic Party.

Last edited by Acsenray; 01-13-2019 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:25 AM
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Barring a very thoughtful and genuine apology for Gabbard's past bigoted assertions about gay people, I could not even consider supporting her for the Democratic nomination.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:32 AM
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I like the wide open Democratic field. My initial response is that I'd be happy to vote for any of the names I've heard floated, and I get to pick the best of a diverse and qualified crowd. Tulsi Gabbard is the exception to this. I hope she makes a quick exit so that she isn't a distraction.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:36 AM
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I like her for her support for the reinstitution of Glass-Steagall alone.
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:57 AM
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Barring a very thoughtful and genuine apology for Gabbard's past bigoted assertions about gay people, I could not even consider supporting her for the Democratic nomination.
But if she gets it, would you then vote for her if she runs against Trump?
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:24 PM
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But if she gets it, would you then vote for her if she runs against Trump?
Almost certainly ("almost" just because I don't know much about Gabbard), since Trump's bigotry is far, far worse in both quantity and character (along with a host of other issues).

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Old 01-13-2019, 12:26 PM
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Perhaps a better question is who is so awful that you'd vote for Trump against them? I'm trying but failing to imagine such a person.
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:28 PM
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I knew Tulsi Gabbard only by name before reading this thread. What I learned about her here is deeply disturbing.



India is constitutionally a secular democratic republic. India is an ethnically and religiously diverse country, arguably more diverse than the entirety of Europe. Hindutva is a betrayal of those values. It's no different than a right-wing American politician wanting to celebrate the "Christian identity" of the United States. Hindutva is virulently anti-Muslim, which is a problem in a country with the world's third largest Muslim population.

By the way, I am an Indian-American and a Hindu.

Modi and the BJP are a vile, racist, bigoted, nationalistic and authoritarian movement. Modi has been in power longer than Trump, but he's picked up a lot of Trumpist propaganda tactics.

Just on that basis, I would disqualify Tulsi Gabbard from any position of responsibility, and definitely not as a standard-bearer for the American left.

Iskcon—better known as the "Hare Krishnas"—is an authoritarian cult. I'd never trust someone from that community or an offshoot for public responsibility. They don't consider themselves Hindu, and many Hindus reject them as well.

But even without her connections to the BJP and Iskcon, Gabbard's own statements about religion and sexuality in America are vile and ought to be firmly rejected by the Democratic Party.
Thanks for the great explanation. In addition to the above I'm specifically concerned about Modi's responsibility for the 2002 Gujarat riots where about 1,000 people were killed. Modi aided and abetted mobs to pogrom Muslims. The Congressional resolution on human rights in India was partly in response to that and similar RSS/BJP attacks on religious minorities. That Gabbard opposed it in support of Modi chokes my throat with the bitterness of bile. The RSS was the hate group that assassinated Mahatma Gandhi and that's where Modi comes from, and Gabbard idolizes this guy.

Last edited by Johanna; 01-13-2019 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:42 PM
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Almost certainly ("almost" just because I don't know much about Gabbard), since Trump's bigotry is far, far worse in both quantity and character (along with a host of other issues).
She sounds rather completely fucked up. I'd stay with the devil you know, Trump, over some bizarre cultist. Thinking Trump is almost certainly worse shows a very poor imagination.
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:49 PM
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Uh, not me. I want this fucking circus to finally be over and there's no way in hell that Gabbard, however weird her religion might be, or whatever she thinks about India, is sufficiently problematic that a second Trump term would be preferable. NO way.
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Old 01-13-2019, 01:09 PM
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Are you worried about Sikh genocide?
I can't figure out whether this statement is being blatantly heartless about mass murder or is simply ignorant. Sikhs are certainly worried about mass murder of Sikhs, because it has actually happened in India. Muslims are certainly worried about mass murder of Muslims, because mass murder of Muslims happens periodically in India.

Muslims are systematically discriminated against in Indian society. It's rare to find Muslims in high-level jobs outside the entertainment industry (a huge percentage of Indian movie stars are Muslims).

Are you saying that it is ridiculous for Americans to care about this or are you just uninformed about it?


Quote:
Do you similarly object to the fact that Israeli & American governmental leaders (Chuck Schumer being one for example) support Israel strongly as a jewish nation? There are a lot of Congressmen on both sides of the isle who are enthusiastically Zionist.
I object to blanket American support for the Israeli government. But I don't and can't vote on that sole basis because pro-Israeli politicians are firmly embedded in the American system and impossible to avoid if you care about other things. We always have to make choices when voting.

That doesn't mean I have to like a pro-Hindutva American politician.
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Old 01-13-2019, 01:19 PM
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She sounds rather completely fucked up. I'd stay with the devil you know, Trump, over some bizarre cultist. Thinking Trump is almost certainly worse shows a very poor imagination.
Nothing she's said comes close to even 1% of Trump's fucked-up-ed-ness. Which still leaves room for plenty of bigotry, much worse than any other likely Democratic candidate, AFAICT. But still almost nothing compared to Trump, at least based on what I've seen.

The "devil we know" is doing enormous medium term and maybe long term damage to the country (and maybe the world).
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Old 01-13-2019, 01:23 PM
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Gabbard's religious views are vile, but I have voted for a lot of Christian politicians who have what I consider vile religious views, particularly at the local level. I don't think overall she would be worse for the country than Trump. However, I would rather she get nowhere near the nomination, which I don't think is likely anyway.
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:09 PM
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Far be it from me to get in the way of a good old fashioned spittle flecked freakout, but here's an actual link to Tulsi's actual views and voting record on various issues.
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:12 PM
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Far be it from me to get in the way of a good old fashioned spittle flecked freakout, but here's an actual link to Tulsi's actual views and voting record on various issues.
People can say whatever they want about their views on their own websites. That doesn't negate things they've said or done in public.
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:17 PM
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Well then it's a darned good thing the linked website doesn't include any links to legislation she's sponsored or originated, links to speeches she's made or to public statements she's given then. Whew, good to know the link is only comprised of completely unvetted, unverified and fact free statements made solely by the candidate. Gee, where would we be without you?
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:23 PM
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Well then it's a darned good thing the linked website doesn't include any links to legislation she's sponsored or originated, links to speeches she's made or to public statements she's given then. Whew, good to know the link is only comprised of completely unvetted, unverified and fact free statements made solely by the candidate. Gee, where would we be without you?
I started composing a lengthy reply to this but then deleted because I decided you can't be serious. Suffice to say, I will weigh a thorough piece by a source I trust like the New Yorker more heavily than a politician's own website.

Last edited by Acsenray; 01-13-2019 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:51 PM
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Uh, not me. I want this fucking circus to finally be over and there's no way in hell that Gabbard, however weird her religion might be, or whatever she thinks about India, is sufficiently problematic that a second Trump term would be preferable. NO way.
Indeed. I can tell you she is highly regarded in Hawaii, and the remarks about her in this thread seem to be about a completely different person. She really has no chance for this nomination though and will no doubt drop out early. But I would vote for my left nut over Chump, so if it was between her and him, she would always get my vote. But there will be no such choice.
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
And three, she's a total nutcase.

I mean, really, why are we even talking about her?
Well, yeah, that was kind of where I was going with that, but I softened my post a bit. She's superficially charismatic, & a former social conservative fed up with the GOP is a neat kind of person to have in Congress. (If she can show that there's more to her than opposing "regime change wars," & she moves away from BJP, maybe someday she'll be taken more seriously.) Given her career to date, right now, she's a no-hoper for President.

Last edited by foolsguinea; 01-13-2019 at 02:58 PM.
  #47  
Old 01-13-2019, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
I'm having a hard time unraveling that... Does she mean that people should be allowed to discriminate, just because they claim that their religion requires it?

If that's what she means, then that's enough of a deal-breaker for me.
Yeah, that's some Mike Pence shit.
  #48  
Old 01-13-2019, 10:51 PM
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So Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard...
I believe I speak for most of my fellow Americans when I ask WHO?
  #49  
Old 01-13-2019, 11:11 PM
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Everyone said that about Barack Obama. And everyone also said that Trump had no chance of winning. The conventional wisdom isn't always correct. I really don't know honestly if Gabbard could win the election, but I do think her chances are way above Elizabeth Warren's and Bernie Sanders', but somewhere below Kamala Harris and Joe Biden.
  #50  
Old 01-14-2019, 01:14 AM
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I believe I speak for most of my fellow Americans when I ask WHO?
Yes, she's the Democratic Ron Paul, loudly popular on a narrow slice of the Internet but not so much in the actual world.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 01-14-2019 at 01:19 AM.
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